Living organic soil from start through recycling CONTINUED...

[Avinash.miles]

you 2 are adorable.... seriously tho, we should all "seek approval" more in the form of pics
thanks for keeping the banter civilized and at least remotely on topic

 

[Slipnot]

Slipnot; I guess only a dimwitted farmer would try making a comparison to farming and folks growing in small containers.

Occasionally a till is advantageous in a no-till farm setting, depending on the crop of course. Shallow tillage can help to break a crust.

What is it that you are so expert at growing and why do you produce gabble that is credited to some scientist with no citations, Some fictional BS which you imagine makes you correct about something.

I note you did not contact me for those studies. Right now you seem like nothing but a troll.

Well that is the thing what studies ??? are you talking about ?? i may not know first hand but i will Contact my providers that are Professional licensed in the field if this is a no till thread then perhaps i was in the right place

Its all about being sustainable is it not ??? i mean Save the world is being in No Till

On another note where are most tests done ?? sure the hell not in a 5 gallon pot or 5 x 5 raised garden bed
There done in fields test studies

I never came in here to be MR know it all like you try to blow your self off as i been busy as of late fall chop et etc
But i will make sure i take pictures with empty fields then in spring maybe you can come up see for your self shit if you energetic i might take you water sking on it haha that is if you can swim ???

Here is a test go out in a field cut out a section of soil put it in a pot make sure you pack it down good i mean real good
in another pot place same type and till it pour a gallon on both of water see which one disappears first ????

Now we an argue that No till does in fact run off create blue algae in creeks and lakes, and is just as bad as till if not worse
But how can that be well? In No till TMU understanding is undisturbed soil so composts different types of mulches manures etc is placed on top or cover crops either case greens needs to be applied .
Your soil is depleting faster then recouping it self so yes some nutrients go down and lots of nutrients go down the river .. think about it

PS One thing i know for sure is i can make a natural soil with my compost alone and MJ plant will grow 8 months with out any teas and only liquid is from the ski and only supplements they get is mulches s a top dress add some EWC from my 7 worm farms which contains easily millions of worms and eggs and i am in a world of my own with out any amendments
Now you call me troll then its safe to all call you a idiot sure you my have took some online course maybe hit a few lectures but i am sure many members have seen you back peddling on some posts

Anyways will take some pics of no till area once everything is harvested and empty field then i will show you markers in in spring i will show you a lake that used to be never there

mean while here slurry test on my compost as well as my fields

You know you have good soil life and a healthy plant when there is not one insect bite on the plant, yet other species around the plant are getting eaten alive
And guess what never sprayed anything on plant I am all about true naturals ways of growing foods

 

[VortexPower420]

MM taking a few online course..that's funny. He might have given some, seeing he is one of the top researchers of all things compost and act. But anyway...

No-till comes from the chemical agriculture. That's where it began in the 80s if I am correct. Over time organic farms have started to take it on.

You say notill leads to leaching but I am unsure how you can to this conclusion. From everything I know about humus, clay and microbes says that in a organic notill situation that would never happen. Unless you when crazy with N or something extreme.

Now chemical notill I can see that being a problem. Distinctions of the various forms of soil Stewardship is important to understand the whole picture.

Very few farms practice organic notill vegetables. Corn soy and other broad acre crops are tk common crops for notill.

I visit one of the first vegetable farms in the country doing notill. He looks for other examples and there are very few out there. Not saying he is the only one but it is a newer science. Biochar, covercrops, mulches, diverse plants in walking areas not many people taking the plunge.

To quote one farmer on his practices with no citations is just hear say. It is not cut and dry by any means.

Also this notill container gardening is even newer. So equating it go field soil just does not work.

Not saying that tilling does not have its.place. over tilling is the problem.

 

[Lapides]

I've been growing pot indoors for my own and other people's heads for about 20 years now. Nothing has been easier or cheaper or has even yielded near the quality of what I've been doing for the past 3 years.

I haven't had a soil test done ever. Maybe I just have some intuition, maybe it's just the way things are.

I grow in beds, 2-5'x2.5' or 1-4'x4' per 1kW. I started out with a basic organic soil recipe. Since then, I pull the main stem out, dig a hole a little larger than the rootball of the plant being transplanted, throw in ewc with live worms, put the plant on top and side/topdress a mix of amendments and then back fill with the soil. Water only via blumats from there on out. Lather rinse repeat. The whole process of transplanting a new crop went from 2-3 days of mixing new dirt, potting the dirt, transplanting the plants, to about a half a day of work. The cost of feeding plants going under 8kW of lights is under $400 a year. I feel like I'm just paying for bulbs and electricity at this point.

Call it whatever you will, but I don't mix or till soil, all I do is dig a hole. And I don't use any man-made chemicals to fertilize or kill pests.

It's the easiest fucking thing I've ever done and any talk of anything more complicated or labor intensive than what I just typed just makes me shake my head and laugh out loud.

just so long as i remember to keep my veg room clean

 

[VortexPower420]

^ just about sums it up.

If it's to hard whats the point.

Price of grass is dropping. I'm trying to get paid for my time, not work for fast food wages.

Not to mention the positive effect on the environment.

 

[Microbeman]

Slipnot
Well that is the thing what studies ??? are you talking about ??

Short term memory issues?

Originally Posted by Microbeman
I am not an advocate for spraying ACT on foliage but there are quite a number of studies demonstrating successful suppression of pathogens using non-aerated 'tea' (watery compost extraction) sprayed on foliage. The most successful used vermicompost.

Slipnot:
Would love to see scientific data and peered reviews i would bet its still inconclusive

Microbeman:
I tried to upload some studies here but there is a size limitation. I have not by any means gone through all the studies but I began organizing them over a year back and got sidetracked by other things. I have about 200 as I recall. If you contact me, I can find a way to get some to you.

 

[heady blunts]

my garden partner just got this test back.

second round with this selected plant.

5th cycle for the 10 gallon no till container. modified coots mix and home made EWC.

the seeds were from friends here at the mag.

 

[Slipnot]

MM taking a few online course..that's funny. He might have given some, seeing he is one of the top researchers of all things compost and act. But anyway...

No-till comes from the chemical agriculture. That's where it began in the 80s if I am correct. Over time organic farms have started to take it on.

You say notill leads to leaching but I am unsure how you can to this conclusion. From everything I know about humus, clay and microbes says that in a organic notill situation that would never happen. Unless you when crazy with N or something extreme.

Now chemical notill I can see that being a problem. Distinctions of the various forms of soil Stewardship is important to understand the whole picture.

Very few farms practice organic notill vegetables. Corn soy and other broad acre crops are tk common crops for notill.

I visit one of the first vegetable farms in the country doing notill. He looks for other examples and there are very few out there. Not saying he is the only one but it is a newer science. Biochar, covercrops, mulches, diverse plants in walking areas not many people taking the plunge.

To quote one farmer on his practices with no citations is just hear say. It is not cut and dry by any means.

Also this notill container gardening is even newer. So equating it go field soil just does not work.

Not saying that tilling does not have its.place. over tilling is the problem.

I never said leaching i said run off so lets see here what are most no till growers doing or even organic growers but adding mulches sure cover crops winter crops etc but the end result is compaction over time
Sure you may not see it in your small grow with electric fans blowing on them but what about in real world settings and actual rain fall ,hail , strong winds you know mother nature doing the real thing ,
mean while you hand water , or maybe drip feed etc
Huge Difference wouldn't you think ??
where as you control the volume but lets say it pours now you have mulches top dressing or even a cover crop what happens ??
You know it it does not go right into the soil but rather builds up on top and how ever the elevation is it will start flowing in that area well mulches flooded with water and eventually showing erosion and salt deposits in a middle of a field and water gathering ,and flows ??
Ending up in rivers creeks, lakes and into our drinking water
so leaching and run off is literally just as damaging

And honestly who the hell are we to know what is going to be good practice 20 - 50 years from now.
At the end of the day its all about growing a plant as healthy as we can right no matter which style you choose

 

[VortexPower420]

Heady, nice numbers.

Slip, it's funny the farmer I spoke of went notill because of runoff and calicum is what stops compaction. It's called flocculation.

But it seems you.know the way. Moving along....

 

[Team Microbe]

my garden partner just got this test back.

second round with this selected plant.

5th cycle for the 10 gallon no till container. modified coots mix and home made EWC.

the seeds were from friends here at the mag.

View Image

Very nice Heady!

The cc kit has given me much success as well, I'm approaching my 7th cycle and quality is only improving...

 

[Microbeman]

I'm a little confused here guys. I thought the whole idea with the Coot type mixes was to have sufficient nutrients so that the grower uses water only for one growing cycle. Is that not how it is being advertised? The no-till mixes originated more with Jay-kush, Blue[something], Mr Fista and lil ol me. [not to forget 3 little birds]

Heady: Incredible THC. I think that would take my head off!

 

[Weird]

I never said leaching i said run off so lets see here what are most no till growers doing or even organic growers but adding mulches sure cover crops winter crops etc but the end result is compaction over time
Sure you may not see it in your small grow with electric fans blowing on them but what about in real world settings and actual rain fall ,hail , strong winds you know mother nature doing the real thing ,
mean while you hand water , or maybe drip feed etc
Huge Difference wouldn't you think ??

the no till recycled organic soil movement in regards to cannabis cultivation started here indoors with containers. The relevance of the methodology is very much in context with the indoor growers that frequent the thread.

If I was working natural land I would be using plants, anthropods, worms/vermiculture, microbiology and other natural methods to til my soil.

These methods gained ground in the 80's (with standard agriculture) and there are many farms that use them to great effect.

They translated well to our industry for a reason.

where as you control the volume but lets say it pours now you have mulches top dressing or even a cover crop what happens ??
You know it it does not go right into the soil but rather builds up on top and how ever the elevation is it will start flowing in that area well mulches flooded with water and eventually showing erosion and salt deposits in a middle of a field and water gathering ,and flows ??
Ending up in rivers creeks, lakes and into our drinking water
so leaching and run off is literally just as damaging

And honestly who the hell are we to know what is going to be good practice 20 - 50 years from now.
At the end of the day its all about growing a plant as healthy as we can right no matter which style you choose

Organic cover crops in recycled soil cause nitrification when it rains?

How does the rain forest handle nitrification if plants getting rained on cause nitrification?

How does planting into open soil apply to the majority of contributing LOS growers who use containers, indoors?

 

[Team Microbe]

I'm a little confused here guys. I thought the whole idea with the Coot type mixes was to have sufficient nutrients so that the grower uses water only for one growing cycle. Is that not how it is being advertised? The no-till mixes originated more with Jay-kush, Blue[something], Mr Fista and lil ol me. [not to forget 3 little birds]

Heady: Incredible THC. I think that would take my head off!

I've been no tilling in a cc mix with added bio char/worms for 7 cycles now with great success, I believe it's being advertised as a no till soil mix as BAS is selling CC kits that everyone else is no tilling in. Fill it up once and done type-deal, ya know?

I use water only for the most part these days...

 

[Weird]

I'm a little confused here guys. I thought the whole idea with the Coot type mixes was to have sufficient nutrients so that the grower uses water only for one growing cycle. Is that not how it is being advertised? The no-till mixes originated more with Jay-kush, Blue[something], Mr Fista and lil ol me. [not to forget 3 little birds]

Heady: Incredible THC. I think that would take my head off!

It is only advertised by people selling something

seems 99% of people get distracted by money

Guess that is why I live in one of the most expensive parts of the USA and still pay my bills with 2 lights

lol but these BAS kids are cute, if dollars had dicks they would all have green on their face

I haven't put any effort into tipping the scales, maybe it is time to talk to gypsy tell him how people are leeching his site for custy bucks

shame there aren't more people like you MM you seem to have your eyes on the prize regardless of personal opportunity

FWIW people with money interests fuck this thread up on the regular .. custy chumps tbh

if they where the growers they pretend to be flowers would pay their way

don't forget the fanboys who are forever in debt because it was the first tech they tried that actually worked for them

the distraction has kept anything new and congruent with the tech from being introduced since those guys left.

Mission accomplished.

 

[Lapides]

BUY SHILAJIT!

 

[moses wellfleet]

FULLASHIT

 

[heady blunts]

i just say "modified coots" as a shorthand of the soil recipe. i bought all the amendments locally at farm stores and garden centers fwiw.

jayKUSH was the first person on the mag that caught my attention. i basically joined to ask him questions. i miss his contributions

bluejayway is aka mountain organics and is still close with coot. he's just released some new botanical tincture products he's been working on. you can look him up on IG or gra$$city if you want.

you know you're my favorite logical gardener tho, MM

what happened to mr fistaa? i remember his posts well.

and as always much respect to 3LB, LC, and B1.

 

[moses wellfleet]

FULLASHIT

Jokes aside can somebody explain to me what humic acid is exactly, is it like liquid humus, will it raise the CEC of your soil? I used it years ago and it didn't seem to do any harm. I stopped after I was told if you already have good humus levels then it is redundant. I have probably asked this question before!

 

[Microbeman]

Jokes aside can somebody explain to me what humic acid is exactly, is it like liquid humus, will it raise the CEC of your soil? I used it years ago and it didn't seem to do any harm. I stopped after I was told if you already have good humus levels then it is redundant. I have probably asked this question before!

Humic acids (& fulvic acids) are an extracted or mined high concentration of humus [do not confus this humus with the term lately applied to compost] or humic substances. In the industry it is mined or extracted from deposits of coal or leonardite or peat. It can be extracted from other sources (apparently) like vermicompost.

My expertise in this area is lacking and you are far better off doing your own research using Google scholar or http://worldwidescience.org/index.html or just plain Google being careful to read several articles and avoid sales pitches.

 

[Microbeman]

I've been no tilling in a cc mix with added bio char/worms for 7 cycles now with great success, I believe it's being advertised as a no till soil mix as BAS is selling CC kits that everyone else is no tilling in. Fill it up once and done type-deal, ya know?

I use water only for the most part these days...
[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=68404&pictureid=1641551&thumb=1]View Image[/url]

What I guess I am thinking of is the ingredients of neemcake and some of the other similar goodies which really have very little to do with an ongoing no-till except as topdressed components, whereas the original mixes consisted of almost only stable (aged-composted) ingredients. (eg. peatmoss, soil, [v]compost, rock, clay, char [bark fines]).

I perceived the water only mixes as having all the nutrients included to carry the plant through to harvest and to be at least partially remixed between each batch.

Perhaps I have this wrong and KIS or BAS can chime in to correct me.

Are you saying that you have soil that you apply water to only over 7 growing cycles so far? The longest that I grew no-till was 7 years with at least 4 crops per year but we topdressed organic matter, used live worms, EM fermentations and compost tea.