Living organic soil from start through recycling CONTINUED...

[MJtheIndicator]

Wasn't that dociron who asked? Silt is a cornerstone of loam which is why I mentioned loam. When you say nutrient cycle the motive is of the plant, not neccesarilly the motive of the soil or loam in this case. The way I hear the question is, what salts are neccesary as nutrient for a plant which is essentially a baited question, no harm no foul.

Salt and Silt in Ancient Mesopotamian Agriculture

"since we now know that Common useful natural plant nutrient components, like dolomite lime (calcium magnesium carbonate) and potash (potassium carbonate), are inorganic salts, and since we now know that salts separate into their ionic components in water; nutrients made from inorganic salts don’t have to be such a mystery.

...There are only two ways to harm your plants, or the microbiology in your soil, using salts. Introducing salts containing toxic elements, and over concentrating salts." - Grat3fulh3ad

Having read the thread Understanding Chemical Salts and Their Relationship to Plant Nutrition, I would assume you are already familiar with this information.

 

[PWF]

theres no salts feeding organic roots.
that is trying to push hydro mentality onto organics.
mineralization occurs via bacteria and fungus activity so that salts are not needed and nutrients that arent delivered by AMF are drawn by cec and osmosis because microbes produce biofilm that feeds fungus.
an organic soil container for pot tends to spike acidic because of fungus out competing bacteria.
bacteria boom faster.
unless rocks are added.
to be mineralized.
not salts.
if in fact salts are present they will not support the microbial activity needed.
this is why we get soil tests and amend it. the arguements here are sophomoric.

 

[MJtheIndicator]

No need for insults. I have respect for those who engage in the exchange of knowledge. What is true is that when silt or loam enter a discussion, so do inorganics i.e., rocks, pebbles, sand, silt, and clay. If its fair for one person to speak of rocks, but not the next then a dialectic will never occur. Concering diatomaceous earth, if you use the freshwater derivative you aren't getting the silica content most farmers intend on, but with "salt-water" derived diatomaceous earth you are getting high silicate %. I wouldn't suggest avoiding it just because it comes from salt-water, same goes for kelp and so-on.

 

[ghostmade]

Lol sorry to burst peoples bubbles but salt is in evry organic mix.lol

 

[MJtheIndicator]

Bubble burster!

 

[rik78]

 

[Weird]

its never been something mentioned in this thread, why inject it now?

 

[Weird]

silt is a particle size, salts are salts

My opinions on them?

I believe (ohh there is that scary word again) sea minerals are far more responsible than mined minerals as far a sustainable agriculture.

I also believe (alot of belief up here in this thread) that if silt is your predominant substrate then learning to work efficiently with it from a sustainable standpoint a primary goal.

relativity is still a key factor, it might be sustainably irresponsible to harvest, process, bottle and ship sea salts to an inland mountain region with natural dusts locally available.

I also believe (ohh 3 times now does that mean trolls will come like beetlejuice) people are looking for this magic mix of amendments and environmentals what will slay all plants which is counter-intuitive based on variations in individual plants genetic code, but why digress, thinking in relative terms is obviously an uncommon trait not to be expected.

If you are a grower worth your salt (cute right?) you should be able to knock it out of the park using a variety of methods and inputs and extolling any one input as primary in living organics is a marginalized mindset, excluding perhaps vericompost, and while I am a proponent of LOS, I do think that other techniques can offer all the same benefits, such as aquaponics.

Even LOS is relative to the environment to which it is applied. My belief (straight tbagging the interwebs with belief at this point) is that we are looking to replicate the natural nutrient cycle up until the environment cannot provide, and as locally sustainable as possible.

Indoors in containers means a different plan of attack then outdoor beds. Owning or having access to property or nature is another factor as well as location (city versus country for example).

There is a bigger picture here, one of many benefits and very few detriments, all relative to many factors and the evolution of our capacity to work more harmoniously with the world around us.

So many people talk about believing (on a roll) in evolution, so few people seem to be in line with it.

I believe (5x the charm) that is called irony.

 

[heady blunts]

this is so funnnnn.....

 

[PWF]

Lol sorry to burst peoples bubbles but salt is in evry organic mix.lol

salt is a mineral.
sodium is not supporting life in soil in regards to this conversation.
i challenge you to list where sodium is added to anything organic.
life needs salt and minerals but when we are discussing the relationship between pot plants it is just the minerals.
salt of any kind makes shitty weed.
when you say simply "salt" you are just trying to argue.
name some "organic" salts.
name some organic brands that use sodium so i can tell people who try to avoid it.
sophomoric is not calling anybody names.
if i called you a retard ya.

 

[CannaBrix]

Salts are an ionic compound and are formed when an acid and base react.
Sodium is necessary for plants.
"Life needs salt" - Plants are life.

When you simple say "organic" you are trying to argue. Because it can mean many different things based on context.
Organic as in carbon based? Or organic as in not synthetic?

Let them answer the question that still has yet to be answered.


Please stop the bashing and can somebody, ideally who proposed the salts, answer my question:

Which salts are necessary in a LOS system, and why are they necessary?

 

[MJtheIndicator]

I'm don't know this from experience...

I'm don't know this from experience...

Please stop the bashing and can somebody, ideally who proposed the salts, answer my question:

Which salts are necessary in a LOS system, and why are they necessary?

Nobody said salts are prerequisite. To keep things in context, the comment was salt as related to silt. Depending on where you are sourcing the silt. If you are in a tight spot you might find yourself dealing with a salt wedge estuary you live nearby namingly the Mississippi river. So if your intent is loam with this as your silt then you are dealing with salt. This is the context of the original comment, not the hyperbole which snowballed. Point taken though, NEVER MENTION SALT IN AN LOS thread.

 

[ghostmade]

Lol never mention salts.
Salts and formed and added to soil . Epsom salt,certain rock powders are considered salt. B7t shit what i know i dont have a degree or anything.lol

 

[Bongstar420]

I get better results in the presence of Sodium levels around the same as Iron. The Sodium is sourced from recycled animal parts or shall we say, any organic fertilizer with animal ingredients.

salt is a mineral.
sodium is not supporting life in soil in regards to this conversation.
i challenge you to list where sodium is added to anything organic.
life needs salt and minerals but when we are discussing the relationship between pot plants it is just the minerals.
salt of any kind makes shitty weed.
when you say simply "salt" you are just trying to argue.
name some "organic" salts.
name some organic brands that use sodium so i can tell people who try to avoid it.
sophomoric is not calling anybody names.
if i called you a retard ya.

 

[Coba]

Feed plants, cure ham and bacon, and pickle cucumbers all at the same time ...

http://www.fertilome.com/ProductFiles/33365%20Nitrate%20of%20Soda%20Approved%2001-7-13.pdf

This product is not intended for nor recommended for Container Grown Plants

http://www.fertilome.com/ProductFiles/HY Nitrate of Soda MSDS_1.pdf

1.
Acute Overexposure: Exposure may result in irritation of the skin and/or mucous membranes. Ingestion of large amounts causes violent gastroenteritis. Symptoms of exposure include dizziness, abdominal cramps, vomiting, headache, mental impairment, cyanosis.
2.
Chronic Overexposure: Prolonged or repeated exposure may cause anemia, methemoglobinemia, weakness, general depression,
headache, mental impairment, and nephritis. A constant oral intake of nitrate containing foods or water could lead to formation of carcinogen N-Nitroso compounds.

Emergency and First Aid Procedures:
INHALATION: Remove to fresh air. If not breathing, give artificial respiration,
preferably mouth-to-mouth. If breathing is difficult, give oxygen. Call a physician. EYE OR SKIN CONTACT: Immediately
flush eyes with plenty of water for at least 15 minutes. Call a physician. Flush skin with water. INGESTION: Induce
vomiting immediately by giving two glasses of water and sticking finger down throat. Never give anything by mouth to an
unconscious person. Call a physician.

I don't see alfalfa packaged with warning labels like this. So, is alfalfa safer than Sodium Nitrate to use in container gardens around animals and Humans?

 

[Weird]

My interpretation was that you do not want to add compounds directly but organic matter that would be processed in your LOS's existing nutrient cycle.

That is why I call worms the canary in the coal mine, if they are thriving their is natural nutrient cycling happening actively in my containers, baring the other benefits of vericompost.

 

[bobblehead]

I wanna play

I don't really give a shit what your philosophy is. ROLS TLO LOS bla bla bla... My soil test indicates deficiency in K and N, and a build up of P with 38% organic matter. Albrecht and Reams recommend around 7% organic matter. I'm supposed to keep adding organic matter that's going to keep N and other elements tied up because some of you think you can't use salts in organics? right...

 

[bobblehead]

View Image

Feed plants, cure ham and bacon, and pickle cucumbers all at the same time ...

http://www.fertilome.com/ProductFiles/33365%20Nitrate%20of%20Soda%20Approved%2001-7-13.pdf
http://www.fertilome.com/ProductFiles/HY Nitrate of Soda MSDS_1.pdf

I don't see alfalfa packaged with warning labels like this. So, is alfalfa safer than Sodium Nitrate to use in container gardens around animals and Humans?

soil bacteria can make you very sick. Don't eat it.

 

[Weird]

I wanna play
View Image



I don't really give a shit what your philosophy is. ROLS TLO LOS bla bla bla... My soil test indicates deficiency in K and N, and a build up of P with 38% organic matter. Albrecht and Reams recommend around 7% organic matter. I'm supposed to keep adding organic matter that's going to keep N and other elements tied up because some of you think you can't use salts in organics? right...

so your idea of playing is coming into a thread whose style you don't participate in to say look at me?

 

[Weird]

day 42

no co2

no temperature control

no humidity control

i fan to scrub and exhaust through light circuit and one osculating fan

multi strain

added 2 cups neem, 2 cups fish, 2 cups fish bone, 2 cups oyster shell and 1/2 cup alfalfa as top dress to 180 gallons of soil

no salts, no boosts, nothing but organic materials and plenty of worms