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Let there be light - What's the best grow lights, growing ?

Whats Your Favorite Light Source, besides the sun... ;)

  • HPS - HIGH PRESSURE SODIUM

    Votes: 23 31.5%
  • DE HPS - DOUBLE ENDED HIGH PRESSURE SODIUM

    Votes: 5 6.8%
  • MH - METAL HALIDE

    Votes: 8 11.0%
  • HID - HIGH INTENSITY DISCHAGE

    Votes: 2 2.7%
  • CMH - CERAMIC METAL HALIDES

    Votes: 14 19.2%
  • LED - LIGHT EMITTING DIODE

    Votes: 35 47.9%
  • FLOURESCENT -

    Votes: 6 8.2%
  • MISSED ONE, MADE A MISTAKE - ADD IT IN COMMENTS PLEASE

    Votes: 1 1.4%
  • DIY LED

    Votes: 5 6.8%
  • THE SUN

    Votes: 15 20.5%
  • HYBRID BULB HPS/MH

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    73

acespicoli

Well-known member

How should PAR / PPFD measurements be taken and compared?​

How are PAR/PPFD measurements often manipulated?​

PPFD measurements should be taken over the entire area of the lighting footprint at regularly-spaced intervals, without leaving any "gaps". Many competitors take "sparse" measurements (fewer than they should) around the perimeter of the footprint, which over-emphasizes the brighter central coverage, and does not represent the bulk of the growing area.
For example, consider the following PAR measurement map provided by a competing LED grow light company in a video they claim shows a "LED Grow Light Comparison that gives a true apples to apples look" (even though they are using one of our original PhytoMAX lights instead of a PhytoMAX-2, and are hanging almost every light they test, except their own, much higher than the recommended hanging height).
Competitor led grow light PPFD measurements

If you average these 17 numbers together, you get 453 μmol/m2/s PPFD. However, because they have left gaps around the perimeter of their measurement area, it is being under-represented in the average- by half! To properly represent the perimeter, there should have been 16 measurements taken there; not the 8 they have provided. 25 total measurements should have been taken; not the 17 they gave.
Missing PPFD measurements

Out of the 17 original numbers this company averaged together to get the "average PAR", over half (9 of 17) were from the central portion of the footprint. It should have been the opposite, with over half (16 of the total 25 or 64%) of the measurements taken on the perimeter. This means that 64% of the growing area they claim to have covered in their "average" was represented by less than half of the measurements they took; which massively inflates the "average PAR" they advertise.
This deceptive practice of under-measuring the perimeter is used most commonly by LED grow light companies with secondary lenses that focus the light into a bright spot under the fixture. It makes the "average" they derive over-represent the central portion of the footprint, even though this is not the bulk of the growing area. In this way, they can make their lights look more impressive on paper- even though these units will fail to provide adequate light to the majority of your plants!
The deception continues though: even this, already center-weighted, 453 μmol/m2/s PPFD "average" isn't what they claim for their light; they say the average is 531 μmol/m2/s:
Competitor led grow light claimed average PPFD measurements

How did they get this number? They took the average of the outer ring of numbers (236.46), the average of the inner ring of numbers (636.48) and the central number (720.25) and averaged these three numbers together to get 531 μmol/m2/s PPFD. However, this is giving the central measurement 1/3 of the total weight in their "average", even though it represents only 1/25th (4%!) of the total area that should be averaged. Once again they are heavily re-weighting their "average" toward the center! Misleadingly, the outer perimeter, accounting for 64% of the actual area, is given equal weighting to the central 4% of the area.
But wait! This isn't even the end of the deception- this competitor displays the PAR measurements in a square grid, when they were taken in a circular pattern:
Competitor led grow light circular PPFD measurements

By doing this, they aren't measuring the corners of the lighting footprint at all, even further center-weighting their "average". Again, this is most-commonly practiced by LED grow light sellers using secondary lenses, as these secondary optics deprive the corners of your growing area of light. Including the actual measurements from the corners of the footprint would drag their true average down dramatically.
If we instead take PPFD measurements at the center of every 6-inch square segment throughout the entire 5x5 foot advertised growing area for this competitor's 630 watt light, we can get a better picture of its actual PAR coverage over the entire advertised footprint. We'll even take these measurements with reflective surroundings (unlike how they took them) to help them out as much as possible:
Competitor led grow light PPFD measurements being taken fairly

Competitor's PPFD measurements

Averaging these 100 numbers together in the only fair way, with equal weighting for each, we can see the true average PPFD for this light is 279 μmol/m2/s PPFD, even with the benefit of reflective surroundings. This is 47% less than the "average" PPFD they claim of 531.
Through a combined set of clever, subtly-deceptive moves, including taking measurements in circles to avoid the corners and emphasize the center, under-representing the perimeter in measurements to emphasize the center, and then performing a center-weighted average to emphasize the center, this company is claiming almost double the average PPFD than their light actually provides.
This is a perfect example of why LED grow lights have a bad reputation. Deceptive marketing practices trick people into buying one of these LED grow lights, but then when it under-performs traditional HPS lights in actual growth, people assume LED grow lights don't work, when in fact they were simply lied to by the manufacturer they selected.
Incidentally, if we take the same 100 PAR measurements at the center of every 6-inch square segment over a 5x5 foot growing area for the 630-watt PhytoMAX-2 600 grow light, we can see how our equal-wattage (and 18% less expensive!) light compares:
PhytoMAX-2 600 PPFD measurements

These 100 numbers average out to 358 μmol/m2/s PPFD, a full 28% higher light intensity average over the entire area for the same wattage and at 18% lower cost. Our superior-quality LEDs and lack of secondary lenses (which block about 10% of the total light output!) deliver 28% more light per watt to your plants, 57% more growing power per dollar, and provide more uniform coverage of the entire footprint area!
For our PhytoMAX LED grow lights we provide average PPFD measurements from every single square inch, over the entire footprint, edge-to-edge, corner-to-corner. This is the only true way to judge the growing power of a light fixture from PPFD numbers alone; although spectrum is also crucial in making any evaluation.

- Content From Black Dog
 

acespicoli

Well-known member
photosystem I,
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photosystem II,
1722968079583.png

Photosynthetically active radiation(PAR) designates the spectral range (wave band) of solar radiation from 400 to 700 nanometers that photosynthetic organisms are able to use in the process of photosynthesis. This spectral region corresponds more or less with the range of light visible to the human eye. Photons at shorter wavelengths tend to be so energetic that they can be damaging to cells and tissues, but are mostly filtered out by the ozone layer in the stratosphere. Photons at longer wavelengths do not carry enough energy to allow photosynthesis to take place.
1722965032299.png

Chlorophylls absorb light most strongly in the blue portion of the electromagnetic spectrum as well as the red portion.[4] Conversely, it is a poor absorber of green and near-green portions of the spectrum. Hence chlorophyll-containing tissues appear green because green light, diffusively reflected by structures like cell walls, is less absorbed.[1] Two types of chlorophyll exist in the photosystems of green plants: chlorophyll a and b.[5]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorophyll_a
200px-Chlorophyll-a-3D-balls.png

Chlorophyll a is a specific form of chlorophyll used in oxygenic photosynthesis. It absorbs most energy from wavelengths of violet-blue and orange-red light, and it is a poor absorber of green and near-green portions of the spectrum.[3

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorophyll_b
200px-Chlorophyll-a-3D-spacefill.png

Chlorophyll b is a form of chlorophyll. Chlorophyll b helps in photosynthesis by absorbing light energy. It is more soluble than chlorophyll a in polar solvents because of its carbonyl group. Its color is green, and it primarily absorbs blue light.[2]
1722968221240.png


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Color temperatures and example sources
The color temperature of the electromagnetic radiation emitted from an ideal black body is defined as its surface temperature in kelvins, or alternatively in micro reciprocal degrees (mired).[11] This permits the definition of a standard by which light sources are compared.

The kelvin, symbol K, is the base unit of measurement for temperature in the International System of Units (SI). The Kelvin scale is an absolute temperature scale that starts from 0 K, the lowest possible temperature (absolute zero), then rises by exactly 1 K for each 1 °C.[1][2][3][4] The Kelvin scale was designed to be easily converted from the Celsius scale (symbol °C). Any temperature in degrees Celsius can be converted to kelvin by adding 273.15.[1][5]

TemperatureSource
1700 KMatch flame, low pressure sodium lamps (LPS/SOX)
1850 KCandle flame, sunset/sunrise
2400 KStandard incandescent lamps
2550 KSoft white incandescent lamps
2700 K"Soft white" compact fluorescent and LED lamps
3000 KWarm white compact fluorescent and LED lamps
3200 KStudio lamps, photofloods, etc.
3350 KStudio "CP" light
5000 KHorizon daylight, Tubular fluorescent lamps
or cool white/daylight compact fluorescent lamps (CFL)
5500–6000 KVertical daylight, electronic flash
6200 KXenon short-arc lamp[10]
6500 KDaylight, overcast
6500–9500 KLCD or CRT screen
15,000–27,000 KClear blue poleward sky





Med Cannabis Cannabinoids. 2018 Jun; 1(1): 19–27.
Published online 2018 Jun 12. doi: 10.1159/000489030
PMCID: PMC8489345
PMID: 34676318

The Effect of Light Spectrum on the Morphology and Cannabinoid Content of Cannabis sativa L.​


screenshot-www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov-2024.08.06-13_58_05.png
screenshot-www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov-2024.08.06-13_58_28.png
screenshot-www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov-2024.08.06-13_58_52.png

Conclusion​

These two experiments are part of a trial series aimed to study the effect of light conditions on cannabis growth. In conclusion, the experiments presented here demonstrate that the optimal spectrum for a specific photoperiod scheme may have diverse beneficial effects on cannabis growth, yield, and cannabinoid profile. Our study shows that the light environment plays an important role not only in plant size and stature but also in the accumulation of cannabinoids. During a long photoperiod, a low R:FR ratio is preferable to make more developed long cuttings, while during a short photoperiod a high proportion of blue irradiation is suitable to improve the medicinal value of cannabis in terms of cannabinoid content. Manipulation of the spectrum, an advantage of the LED technology, offers better space utilization to support the heating and cooling loads of growing buildings. LED lighting strategies may be applied to improve the energy utilization and carbon footprint of cannabis crop. The mechanisms underlying the effect of UV-A/blue light wavelength on cannabinoid pathways require further elucidation.
 
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amanda88

Well-known member

the man does the numbers I don't have time for, so far its worked well


I've got 3 of these 4x2 arrays now thats a 12x8 grow space, and great results with only a tiny use of power compared to the HPS/Mh days, I very much miss the hps, but thats just my age reminding me how lucky we are

I watch these on a you tube downloader ..free most places, very few logon
 

acespicoli

Well-known member
1722968514199.png

1722974464597.png

Black-body radiation is the thermal electromagnetic radiation within, or surrounding, a body in thermodynamic equilibrium with its environment, emitted by a black body (an idealized opaque, non-reflective body). It has a specific, continuous spectrum
  • The discrete part of the emission spectrum of hydrogen
    The discrete part of the emission spectrum of hydrogen
  • Spectrum of sunlight above the atmosphere (yellow) and at sea level (red), revealing an absorption spectrum with a discrete part (such as the line due to O 2) and a continuous part (such as the bands labeled H 2O)
    Spectrum of sunlight above the atmosphere (yellow) and at sea level (red), revealing an absorption spectrum with a discrete part (such as the line due to O
    2) and a continuous part (such as the bands labeled H
    2O)
  • Spectrum of light emitted by a deuterium lamp, showing a discrete part (tall sharp peaks) and a continuous part (smoothly varying between the peaks). The smaller peaks and valleys may be due to measurement errors rather than discrete spectral lines.
    Spectrum of light emitted by a deuterium lamp, showing a discrete part (tall sharp peaks) and a continuous part (smoothly varying between the peaks). The smaller peaks and valleys may be due to measurement errors rather than discrete spectral lines.

of wavelengths,
220px-Light_dispersion_conceptual_waves.gif

inversely related to intensity, that depend only on the body's temperature, which is assumed, for the sake of calculations and theory, to be uniform and constant.[1][2][3][4]

Comparisons of temperatures in various scales

KelvinCelsius
TemperaturePeak emittance wavelength[a]
of black-body radiation
Absolute zero
(precisely by definition)
0 K−273.15 °CInfinity
Blackbody temperature of the black hole at
the centre of our galaxy, Sagittarius A*[103]
15 fK−273.149999999999985 °C2.5×108 km (1.7 AU)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperature
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1722975076694.png
 
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acespicoli

Well-known member

the man does the numbers I don't have time for, so far its worked well


I've got 3 of these 4x2 arrays now thats a 12x8 grow space, and great results with only a tiny use of power compared to the HPS/Mh days, I very much miss the hps, but thats just my age reminding me how lucky we are

I watch these on a you tube downloader ..free most places, very few logon

but thats just my age reminding me how lucky we are, right ?
The LED lights are nice just had some issues with the quality and longevity of the units
Makes me wonder how many years people have on their LED
for the price they have to produce returns on the investment without dimming for an extended period
:thinking: How many years hours have they logged running 16/8 on/off veg and 11/13 on/off flower
What kinda mileage you have on them so far?
 
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CharlesU Farley

Well-known member
Makes me wonder how many years people have on their LED
for the price they have to produce returns on the investment without dimming for an extended price
:thinking: How many years hours have they logged running 16/8 on/off veg and 11/13 on/off flower in my scenario
What kinda mileage you have on them so far?
I've been exceedingly happy with the longevity of LED lighting, in general and I've never used the dimmer function on any LED.

I've been using LEDs since 2013. The original LED, a 240 G8LED, still works but with several LEDs burned out but I haven't used it in over 10 years now. Lumigrow 325 was next and it gave me almost 3 years of constant usage before it quit but I still had 3 months on the warranty and they sent me a refurb that is still quite functional but not enough output per unit of electricity for me to use now.

Worst LEDs were from KingPlus, replaced several circuit boards myself under warranty and they barely lasted 2 years. California Solar Flare was next and that fucker still works as original. Absolutely no burnt LEDs and it's built like a tank. Haven't used it in 5-6 years.

Spider Farmer SMB's were next and I've been using em for over 4+ years now. I've kept fans on the SMBs to keep temps cooler. A couple of LEDs are burnt but essentially they operate as new:

out_of_the_closet.jpg



Used to spend a $100 USD for SunMaster Warm Deluxe bulbs every couple of years for this monster, bought in 87. :oops: Used until about 10 years ago:

kw_mh.jpg
 

acespicoli

Well-known member
I've been exceedingly happy with the longevity of LED lighting, in general and I've never used the dimmer function on any LED.

I've been using LEDs since 2013. The original LED, a 240 G8LED, still works but with several LEDs burned out but I haven't used it in over 10 years now. Lumigrow 325 was next and it gave me almost 3 years of constant usage before it quit but I still had 3 months on the warranty and they sent me a refurb that is still quite functional but not enough output per unit of electricity for me to use now.

Worst LEDs were from KingPlus, replaced several circuit boards myself under warranty and they barely lasted 2 years. California Solar Flare was next and that fucker still works as original. Absolutely no burnt LEDs and it's built like a tank. Haven't used it in 5-6 years.

Spider Farmer SMB's were next and I've been using em for over 4+ years now. I've kept fans on the SMBs to keep temps cooler. A couple of LEDs are burnt but essentially they operate as new:

View attachment 19044162


Used to spend a $100 USD for SunMaster Warm Deluxe bulbs every couple of years for this monster, bought in 87. :oops: Used until about 10 years ago:

View attachment 19044163
That's excellent feedback on the LED question, what is the lifespan? and if there isnt a substantial warranty from a well established company in the grow light industry it could be a gamble.

But if your initial investment is low and you get several years at a reduced energy consumption its a win 🤷‍♂️
We need todo another survey of grower ranking LED manufacturers
and getting that data on the spreadsheet ?

THERE'S MANY ARTICLES ABOUT MANUFACTURERS FALSELY REPORTING QUALITY


***
The world's longest-lasting light bulb is the Centennial Light located at 4550 East Avenue, Livermore, California. It is maintained by the Livermore-Pleasanton Fire Department. The fire department claims that the bulb is at least 121 years old (installed 1901) and has only been turned off a handful of times. The bulb has been noted by The Guinness Book of World Records, Ripley's Believe It or Not!, and General Electric as being the world's longest-lasting light bulb.
***


Thomas Edison designed a bulb that was supposed to last forever, called the Eternal Light,
- GROW LIGHT MANUFACTURERS WOULD NEVER ALLOW THIS!!! ;)


I ALSO HAVE SOME LED FAILS BURNED OUT DIODES, OTHERS AS WELL ?
THIS IS MY NEXT ATTEMPT LED T5 :thinking: SOME LED MAKERS OFFER REPLAEMENT BARS NOW
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EVER TRIED HYBRID HPS/MH ? I HAVE NOT BUT IT LOOKS AND SOUNDS IDEAL!
:huggg:
 

acespicoli

Well-known member
@CharlesU Farley with all those connections on leds... some are gonna fail
how many leds's per unit ?
LEDs usually last for 10,000 - 50,000 hours until LM-70 is reached.[citation needed]
Lumen maintenance is the most useful gauge to determine the lifetime or useful light output rating of an LED light source. Unlike traditional light sources such as incandescent lamps, LEDs rarely fail outright and instead continue to emit light, albeit at slowly diminishing rate over time.[1] Lumen maintenance is the luminous flux remaining (expressed as a percentage of the initial output) at any selected elapsed operating time. Lumen depreciation is the luminous flux lost over time, and thus the complement of lumen maintenance.[2]

Nothing lasts forever :thinking: well all my hobbies require a investment 🤷‍♂️
 

acespicoli

Well-known member
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1722973046310.png

Photon energy is the energy carried by a single photon, which is the smallest possible particle of electromagnetic energy and light. The amount of energy a photon has is directly proportional to its electromagnetic frequency and inversely proportional to its wavelength. This means that photons with higher frequencies have more energy, while photons with longer wavelengths have less energy.


Chlorophyll Concentration: - Shade-tolerant plants have more chlorophyll in their leaves to absorb as much light as possible. They also tend to have chlorophyll that is more efficient at capturing the limited wavelengths available in the shade.

220px-%E0%B8%A5%E0%B8%B9%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%95%E0%B8%B8%E0%B9%89%E0%B8%A1%E0%B8%98%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%A1%E0%B8%8A%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%95%E0%B8%B4.gif

Frequency is an important parameter used in science and engineering to specify the rate of oscillatory and vibratory phenomena, such as mechanical vibrations, audio signals (sound), radio waves, and light.
 
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Rocket Soul

Well-known member

How should PAR / PPFD measurements be taken and compared?​

How are PAR/PPFD measurements often manipulated?​

PPFD measurements should be taken over the entire area of the lighting footprint at regularly-spaced intervals, without leaving any "gaps". Many competitors take "sparse" measurements (fewer than they should) around the perimeter of the footprint, which over-emphasizes the brighter central coverage, and does not represent the bulk of the growing area.
For example, consider the following PAR measurement map provided by a competing LED grow light company in a video they claim shows a "LED Grow Light Comparison that gives a true apples to apples look" (even though they are using one of our original PhytoMAX lights instead of a PhytoMAX-2, and are hanging almost every light they test, except their own, much higher than the recommended hanging height).
Competitor led grow light PPFD measurements

If you average these 17 numbers together, you get 453 μmol/m2/s PPFD. However, because they have left gaps around the perimeter of their measurement area, it is being under-represented in the average- by half! To properly represent the perimeter, there should have been 16 measurements taken there; not the 8 they have provided. 25 total measurements should have been taken; not the 17 they gave.
Missing PPFD measurements

Out of the 17 original numbers this company averaged together to get the "average PAR", over half (9 of 17) were from the central portion of the footprint. It should have been the opposite, with over half (16 of the total 25 or 64%) of the measurements taken on the perimeter. This means that 64% of the growing area they claim to have covered in their "average" was represented by less than half of the measurements they took; which massively inflates the "average PAR" they advertise.
This deceptive practice of under-measuring the perimeter is used most commonly by LED grow light companies with secondary lenses that focus the light into a bright spot under the fixture. It makes the "average" they derive over-represent the central portion of the footprint, even though this is not the bulk of the growing area. In this way, they can make their lights look more impressive on paper- even though these units will fail to provide adequate light to the majority of your plants!
The deception continues though: even this, already center-weighted, 453 μmol/m2/s PPFD "average" isn't what they claim for their light; they say the average is 531 μmol/m2/s:
Competitor led grow light claimed average PPFD measurements

How did they get this number? They took the average of the outer ring of numbers (236.46), the average of the inner ring of numbers (636.48) and the central number (720.25) and averaged these three numbers together to get 531 μmol/m2/s PPFD. However, this is giving the central measurement 1/3 of the total weight in their "average", even though it represents only 1/25th (4%!) of the total area that should be averaged. Once again they are heavily re-weighting their "average" toward the center! Misleadingly, the outer perimeter, accounting for 64% of the actual area, is given equal weighting to the central 4% of the area.
But wait! This isn't even the end of the deception- this competitor displays the PAR measurements in a square grid, when they were taken in a circular pattern:
Competitor led grow light circular PPFD measurements

By doing this, they aren't measuring the corners of the lighting footprint at all, even further center-weighting their "average". Again, this is most-commonly practiced by LED grow light sellers using secondary lenses, as these secondary optics deprive the corners of your growing area of light. Including the actual measurements from the corners of the footprint would drag their true average down dramatically.
If we instead take PPFD measurements at the center of every 6-inch square segment throughout the entire 5x5 foot advertised growing area for this competitor's 630 watt light, we can get a better picture of its actual PAR coverage over the entire advertised footprint. We'll even take these measurements with reflective surroundings (unlike how they took them) to help them out as much as possible:
Competitor led grow light PPFD measurements being taken fairly

Competitor's PPFD measurements's PPFD measurements

Averaging these 100 numbers together in the only fair way, with equal weighting for each, we can see the true average PPFD for this light is 279 μmol/m2/s PPFD, even with the benefit of reflective surroundings. This is 47% less than the "average" PPFD they claim of 531.
Through a combined set of clever, subtly-deceptive moves, including taking measurements in circles to avoid the corners and emphasize the center, under-representing the perimeter in measurements to emphasize the center, and then performing a center-weighted average to emphasize the center, this company is claiming almost double the average PPFD than their light actually provides.
This is a perfect example of why LED grow lights have a bad reputation. Deceptive marketing practices trick people into buying one of these LED grow lights, but then when it under-performs traditional HPS lights in actual growth, people assume LED grow lights don't work, when in fact they were simply lied to by the manufacturer they selected.
Incidentally, if we take the same 100 PAR measurements at the center of every 6-inch square segment over a 5x5 foot growing area for the 630-watt PhytoMAX-2 600 grow light, we can see how our equal-wattage (and 18% less expensive!) light compares:
PhytoMAX-2 600 PPFD measurements

These 100 numbers average out to 358 μmol/m2/s PPFD, a full 28% higher light intensity average over the entire area for the same wattage and at 18% lower cost. Our superior-quality LEDs and lack of secondary lenses (which block about 10% of the total light output!) deliver 28% more light per watt to your plants, 57% more growing power per dollar, and provide more uniform coverage of the entire footprint area!
For our PhytoMAX LED grow lights we provide average PPFD measurements from every single square inch, over the entire footprint, edge-to-edge, corner-to-corner. This is the only true way to judge the growing power of a light fixture from PPFD numbers alone; although spectrum is also crucial in making any evaluation.

- Content From Black Dog
Is this Black dog led, in their phytomax 2 era (1.6 ppf / w, dogshit efficiency though i admitt they become better with now 2.1 in gen4) calling out Kind Led for some dodgy marketing? Thats really rich, talk about the pot calling the kettle black, lol.
Theyre spectrum is impressive and i respect they go their own way but their marketing pitch is usually so full of shit that to see them clanking down on another company is a bit laughable. Like their spectrum though but price point and efficiency is not great, not even average.
 

acespicoli

Well-known member
Is this Black dog led, in their phytomax 2 era (1.6 ppf / w, dogshit efficiency though i admitt they become better with now 2.1 in gen4) calling out Kind Led for some dodgy marketing? Thats really rich, talk about the pot calling the kettle black, lol.
Theyre spectrum is impressive and i respect they go their own way but their marketing pitch is usually so full of shit that to see them clanking down on another company is a bit laughable. Like their spectrum though but price point and efficiency is not great, not even average.
Yup black dog had some good lighting examples of spectrum vs photosynthesis maybe I forgot citations :thinking:
You have some LED experience as well :huggg: looking forward to some more honest reviews :love:
200px-Polarisation_ellipse2.svg.png
240px-Birefringence.svg.png
File:Rising circular.gif
 
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Rocket Soul

Well-known member
Yup black dog had some good lighting examples of spectrum vs photosynthesis maybe I forgot citations :thinking:
You have some LED experience as well :huggg: looking forward to some more honest reviews :love:
I respect black dog for going their own way, just focusing on the plant response, efficiency be damned. But their sales pitch is usually a bit so-so, bordering on deceptive. Their customers seem to have a cult like attachment to them which makes it hard to talk about stuff. Another gripe i have with these lights is that they could fairly easily make their lights with almost the same spectrum but a great bit more efficient. If im paying their asking price i want more than what their offering. Hoping to put something together soon that is similar in spectrum but better efficiency, along with bar/strip type which is better for spread usually.
 

acespicoli

Well-known member
I respect black dog for going their own way, just focusing on the plant response, efficiency be damned. But their sales pitch is usually a bit so-so, bordering on deceptive. Their customers seem to have a cult like attachment to them which makes it hard to talk about stuff. Another gripe i have with these lights is that they could fairly easily make their lights with almost the same spectrum but a great bit more efficient. If im paying their asking price i want more than what their offering. Hoping to put something together soon that is similar in spectrum but better efficiency, along with bar/strip type which is better for spread usually.
Yeah all those tiny LED greatly improve the PPFD footprint, there are so many connections that could fail.
The reason for failure usually indicated are cycles of heating and cooling casued by turning on and off
The connecting material expands and contracts like a wire bent back and forth till it snaps
So the timers were using for veg and flower rest periods 🤷‍♂️

Then like you say better, seedling, veg, clone, flower, depends on your requirements which is best
Just read a article today that HPS is producing bud that is 30% less THC than quality LED
It was a science paper with DOI links and citations by scientists not some fraud grow light manufacturer
or Bro Science...

I miss florescent for veggin they were the best 😭 for seedlings and early veg...

"Hoping to put something together soon" <<<this :huggg:
 

acespicoli

Well-known member

How high to hang LED lamps from your cannabis plants​

Many LED lights have dimmers allowing growers to control the intensity without adjusting the height. This article’s recommendations are based on light distance and dimmer settings.

LED light distance for cannabis seedlings​

Seedlings are sensitive to intense light regardless of the source. LED lighting will be placed furthest from the canopy during the seedling stage.

LED light distance for cannabis in the vegetative stage​

As the plant develops more roots and foliage, the amount of light it can tolerate increases. Grow lights can be positioned closer to the canopy, increasing the light intensity delivered. Vegetative plants require a higher intensity than seedlings but do not require as much as flowering plants.

LED light distance for cannabis during the flowering stage​

Cannabis plants require the highest intensity during the flowering phase. This is when you will position your light closest to the canopy. Due to the reduced heat output towards the canopy, LED lighting can be run closer to the canopy than HPS systems.

LED wattage lamp height for each stage.

SeedlingVegetativeFlowering
100 w24” @ 90%12” @ 100%8-10” @ 100%
200 w24” @ 45%14” @ 100%10-12” @ 100%
300 w24” @ 30%16” @ 100%12-14” @ 100%
600 w24” @ 15%18-20” @ 80%14-16” @ 100%
1000 w36” @ 10%20-24” @ 70%18-22” @ 100%
2000w xxxxxx

How high to hang HPS lamps from your cannabis plants​

Many of the digital ballasts (a device that regulates the power current) that come with HPS systems have dimmers. Unfortunately, when you run them at anything less than 100%, the gases do not heat properly, affecting the desired color spectrum. Our tests were conducted at 100% of the intended power draw.

HPS light distance for cannabis seedlings​

HPS lighting systems produce not only intense light but also intense heat, which dissipates in the direction of the canopy (thanks to increased infrared radiation [IR]). Growers should be cautious of placing lights too close to seedlings.

HPS light distance for cannabis in the vegetative stage​

During this stage, lower the light to increase the usable light the canopy receives. Vigorously growing plants will enjoy the higher light intensity.

HPS light distance for cannabis during the flowering stage​

Some HPS lights use an open “winged” reflector, while others use an air-cooled hood. Air-cooled hoods can be placed slightly closer to the canopy due to the reduced heat signature at the canopy and because the glass diminishes light intensity by 10% or more if it is dirty.

HPS light distance for cannabis during the flowering stage
HPS light distance for cannabis during the flowering stage
HPS wattage lamp height for each stage.

SeedlingVegetativeFlowering
150 w32”-36”18”-22”8”-12”
250 w36”-40”20”-24”10”-14”
400 w40”-44”24”-30”12”-18”
600 w44”-48”28”-34”14”-20”
1000 w48”-60”34”-40”20”-28”
2000 w xxxxxx

 

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acespicoli

Well-known member
There is no true conversion of nanometers to kelvin ? XYZ to RGB



Topics​


Illuminant series LED​

Publication 15:2018 introduces new illuminants for different white LED types with CCTs ranging from approx. 2700 K to 6600 K.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlated_color_temperature

LED-B1 through B5 defines LEDs with phosphor-converted blue light. LED-BH1 defines a blend of phosphor-converted blue and a red LED. LED-RGB1 defines the white light produced by a tricolor LED mix. LED-V1 and V2 define LEDs with phosphor-converted violet light.

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acespicoli

Well-known member
White points of standard illuminants[30][31][32][33]

��
xyx10°y10°
NameCIE 1931 2°CIE 1964 10°CCT (K)ColorNote
A0.447580.407450.451170.405942856incandescent / tungsten
B0.348420.351610.349800.352704874obsolete, direct sunlight at noon
C0.310060.316160.310390.319056774obsolete, average / North sky daylight
NTSC 1953[34], PAL-M[35][a]
D500.345670.358500.347730.359525003horizon light, ICC profile PCS[a]
D550.332420.347430.334110.348775503mid-morning / mid-afternoon daylight
D650.312720.329030.313820.331006504noon daylight: television, sRGB color space[a]
D750.299020.314850.299680.317407504North sky daylight
D930.283150.297110.283270.300439305high-efficiency blue phosphor monitors, BT.2035[a]
E0.333330.333330.333330.333335454equal energy
F10.313100.337270.318110.335596430daylight fluorescent
F20.372080.375290.379250.367334230cool white fluorescent
F30.409100.394300.417610.383243450white fluorescent
F40.440180.403290.449200.390742940warm white fluorescent
F50.313790.345310.319750.342466350daylight fluorescent
F60.377900.388350.386600.378474150light white fluorescent
F70.312920.329330.315690.329606500D65 simulator, daylight simulator
F80.345880.358750.349020.359395000D50 simulator, Sylvania F40 Design 50
F90.374170.372810.378290.370454150cool white deluxe fluorescent
F100.346090.359860.350900.354445000Philips TL85, Ultralume 50
F110.380520.377130.385410.371234000Philips TL84, Ultralume 40
F120.436950.404410.442560.397173000Philips TL83, Ultralume 30
LED-B10.45600.40782733phosphor-converted blue
LED-B20.43570.40122998phosphor-converted blue
LED-B30.37560.37234103phosphor-converted blue
LED-B40.34220.35025109phosphor-converted blue
LED-B50.31180.32366598phosphor-converted blue
LED-BH10.44740.40662851mixing of phosphor-converted blue LED and red LED (blue-hybrid)
LED-RGB10.45570.42112840mixing of red, green, and blue LEDs
LED-V10.45600.45482724phosphor-converted violet
LED-V20.37810.37754070phosphor-converted violet
  1. ^ Jump up to:a b c d Displays simply use the white point of this standard illuminant; they do not emit the required spectrum.
 

acespicoli

Well-known member
The spectrum of a standard illuminant, like any other profile of light, can be converted into tristimulus values. The set of three tristimulus coordinates of an illuminant is called a white point. If the profile is normalized, then the white point can equivalently be expressed as a pair of chromaticity coordinates.

A tea light-type candle, imaged with a luminance camera;
false colors indicate luminance levels per the bar on the right (cd/m2)


Gamut of the CIE RGB primaries and location of primaries on the CIE 1931 xy chromaticity diagram.
 

acespicoli

Well-known member
screenshot-data.bls.gov-2024.08.07-10_14_48.png

VEG 16/8 ON/OFF -- FLOWER 11/13 ON/OFF ANYONE USING THIS SCHEDULE ?
1723041078139.png

HERES A PHONE APP TIMER BT WITH POWER USE TRACKING
1723041179160.png

Technical Details​

Operation Mode‎ON-OFF-ON
Current Rating‎15 Amps
Operating Voltage‎120 Volts (AC)
Contact Type‎Normally Open
Connector Type‎Idc
Brand‎Etekcity
Terminal‎Spst
Item dimensions L x W x H‎4.13 x 3.35 x 1.57 inches
Circuit Type‎1-way
Mounting Type‎Plug-In Mount
Actuator Type‎Push Button
Contact Material‎Phosphor Bronze
International Protection Rating‎IPX4
Number of Positions‎1
Lower Temperature Rating‎14 Degrees Fahrenheit
Upper Temperature Rating‎104 Degrees Fahrenheit
Controller Type‎Google Assistant, Amazon Alexa
Control Method‎Voice
Connectivity Protocol‎Wi-Fi
Color‎black
Wattage‎1800 watts
Unit Count‎1.0 Count
Number of Items‎1
Global Trade Identification Number‎00817915024683
Manufacturer‎Etekcity
UPC‎817915024683
Part Number‎817915024683
Item Weight‎12 ounces
Product Dimensions‎4.13 x 3.35 x 1.57 inches
Country of Origin‎China
Item model number‎ESO15-TB
Is Discontinued By Manufacturer‎No
Size‎Wireless Remote Control
Style‎Outdoor Smart Plug
Voltage‎120 Volts
Item Package Quantity‎1
Number Of Pieces‎1
Included Components‎QSG
Batteries Included?‎No
Batteries Required?‎No
Warranty Description‎2-Year
1723041245684.png

THIS IS RATED GFI PROTECTED FOR 15AMPS MADE IN CHINA,

About this item​

  • EASY TO USE WITH ALEXA: Control devices from your smartphone or through voice command with Alexa or Google Assistant with a one-time easy setup. NOTE: A secured 2.4GHz Wi-Fi network is required.
  • INDIVIDUAL OUTLET DESIGN: Enjoy customizable control over each individual socket through the VeSync app. Its power rating of 15A/1800W means 2 appliances can be used at once—ideal for holiday string lights, fountains, pool pumps, and indoor home use.
  • SCHEDULES & TIMERS: Schedule each socket to automatically turn on and off at specified times. With the energy-monitoring function, easily monitor and control your device's total power consumption anywhere, anytime (can't monitor separately).
  • SUNSET & SUNRISE OPTIONS: Coordinate individual socket schedules with local sunset and sunrise times. Program holiday lights to turn on at sunset, or patio decorations to turn off at sunrise—especially convenient during the holidays.
  • BUILT SAFE & WEATHERPROOF DESIGN: Built-in surge, overload, overcurrent, and overheat protections. IPX4 Waterproof, ETL listed, and FCC certified. Can be indoor home used too.
IF YOU HAVE ELECTRICAL QUESTIONS ASK, OVERLOAD ON A CIRCUIT IS A FIRE HAZZARD
1723041397325.png

IN SEARCH OF TIMERS... BT OR WIFI WITH USAGE TRACKING

 
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