LED grown Sour 60

[Mr.Meds]

I think when I play with LEDS I'll throw in supplementary T5's / CFL.
What is 126 watts of LED suppose to be comparable to and what spectrums are in there?

 

[Roortokeage]

I think when I play with LEDS I'll throw in supplementary T5's / CFL.
What is 126 watts of LED suppose to be comparable to and what spectrums are in there?

im still trying to figure out the wattage to lumens theory. they try to compare my 45 watt LED panel to a 250 HPS. But we all know that ant true.

 

[fhspolo16]

126W Penetrator LED Grow Light

Perfect for Gardens of all sizes! Comparable to a 400W HID!

Use within 6 – 12″ from your canopy for best results

Approximate Coverage Area of 2′ x 3′ at 12″ above your Canopy!

Full Spectrum: 440nm, 470nm, 640nm, 660nm, white + IR

70% Red, 10% Blue, 20% White

Uses (126) 1W High Power LED’S!

Intense 60 Degree (STD) or 30 Degree (optional) Viewing Angles!

Light output of nearly 5000 lumens!

 

[Roortokeage]

5000 lumens! --- for how much money???

Not to be rude , I spent 130 on myne and i bet I have like 1/2 to a quater to what you got.

I rather spend the money on a HPS all day long that I think of it. LEDS have a long way to go until you can compare to a HPS.

 

[fhspolo16]

I'm no expert so I have to go off of the info i have found on here and other research and lumens are a bad way to measure the light output for plants. HPS puts out a lot of light in the human visual range of light wave lengths but does a pretty bad job at being in the key absorption points for photosynthesis.

In comparrison to the graph of what the LED's that are being tested for this I would say that the LED's put out more usable light which should make the plants grow better. right?

 

[Roortokeage]

You cant go off that graph. You need to find out how many lumens is a 1 watt led. then we will know

 

[fhspolo16]

But how is lumens a valid measurement to go off of when it is a measurement of light visible to the human eye and also when only 15% to at best 20% of that is in wavelengths that are optimal for photosynthesis?
When you compare the previous graph to this one that shows the peak absorption rates for photosynthesis it looks like where the HPS peaks it doesn't do much for the plant.

sorry S_A_H for jacking your thread. The plants are looking nice and I'm excited to see the end result
​

 

[Mr.Meds]

Lumens don't mean much to the plant world.

 

[Roortokeage]

Lumens don't mean much to the plant world.

IDk how you can say that.

 

[Mr.Meds]

It measures light visible to the human eye...Not plants.

 

[Roortokeage]

It measures light visible to the human eye...Not plants.

We know that, but what are you saying. I still dont understand what you guys are trying to do or say.

 

[Mr.Meds]

Relative to LED? I don't know. I'm not trying to do anything hahahahha! But seriously If anything, just interesting seeing different peoples thoughts on LEDs power/output and performance/efficiency in comparison with HID and CFL/T5 etc. Apparently they work pretty well but I don't know what kind of spectrums/penetration/and amounts of actual absorbable light being produced watt for watt.

 

[j6p]

BlackSun, you know this is one thing I have been saying from the start that they do not look happy.

and

ICC, I just think it is the LED light myself as they just don't stand up as proud as they do in the HPS but who cares as Monk said its all about the harvest.

S_a_H

I don't have any vested interest in these lights, but I've browsed several independent grows using the same 160w LEDs on other forums. I didn't notice droopiness in the other LED 160 runs. Could be another issue here ...

 

[S_a_H]

I don't have any vested interest in these lights, but I've browsed several independent grows using the same 160w LEDs on other forums. I didn't notice droopiness in the other LED 160 runs. Could be another issue here ...

I dunno......

I have taken a couple out and put them under a CFL and they perk up.

They have been that way from the start and even after the transplant and I am using both coco and soil.

They are plenty warm with an air temp of 80 degrees and the pots are 76-78 degrees.

S_a_H

 

[catness]

We know that, but what are you saying. I still dont understand what you guys are trying to do or say.

They are trying to tell you that the measure of Lumens is more or less useless when it comes to plants. You could have 100,000 lumens of light but if its in a spectrum that a plant cannot use to conduct photosynthesis what good would that be? What plants need are PAR, or Photosynthetically Active Radiation. Do a quick google/wikipedia search should give you everything you need to know about what PAR is, and why they are throwing those graphs at you.

In other words, one light source, light A, could have 20,000 lumens buy only 20% of its light spectrum could be useful for plant growth. Which would equate to roughly 4000 lumens that are being used fully, 16000 that arent. Now lets say light B only has 5000 lumens but 80% of its light spectrum is useful for photosynthesis now you have the same amount of useful lumens 4000, from each light. However, light B is only 126 watts and no heat, whereas light A is 400watts and plenty of heat.

Now before anyone jumps on me i know you cannot do a PAR to Lumen conversion and all of these numbers above are simply for a visual example and i made the numbers up, to explain the concept at hand.

EDIT: Sunmaster Lamps state on their website the average 400w HPS has a PAR Watt rating of 120-128Watts so even manufacturers admit HPS is only 30% effective when relative to power input (not directly admit but in a roundabout way)

 

[Mr.Meds]

That's funny HPS/Sunmaster is around 30%. I wonder what the PAR of my Phillips Mastercolor Ceramic Metal Halides are.

 

[Roortokeage]

Relative to LED? I don't know. I'm not trying to do anything hahahahha! But seriously If anything, just interesting seeing different peoples thoughts on LEDs power/output and performance/efficiency in comparison with HID and CFL/T5 etc. Apparently they work pretty well but I don't know what kind of spectrums/penetration/and amounts of actual absorbable light being produced watt for watt.

They are trying to tell you that the measure of Lumens is more or less useless when it comes to plants. You could have 100,000 lumens of light but if its in a spectrum that a plant cannot use to conduct photosynthesis what good would that be? What plants need are PAR, or Photosynthetically Active Radiation. Do a quick google/wikipedia search should give you everything you need to know about what PAR is, and why they are throwing those graphs at you.

In other words, one light source, light A, could have 20,000 lumens buy only 20% of its light spectrum could be useful for plant growth. Which would equate to roughly 4000 lumens that are being used fully, 16000 that arent. Now lets say light B only has 5000 lumens but 80% of its light spectrum is useful for photosynthesis now you have the same amount of useful lumens 4000, from each light. However, light B is only 126 watts and no heat, whereas light A is 400watts and plenty of heat.

Now before anyone jumps on me i know you cannot do a PAR to Lumen conversion and all of these numbers above are simply for a visual example and i made the numbers up, to explain the concept at hand.

EDIT: Sunmaster Lamps state on their website the average 400w HPS has a PAR Watt rating of 120-128Watts so even manufacturers admit HPS is only 30% effective when relative to power input (not directly admit but in a roundabout way)

Thank you and thank you. Learning has taken place. Now Where can I find PAR about LEDS? Or can someone help me with this. I was told LEDS are great for Vegging but are not as good as HPS in the Flowering Field. Also I was told that LEDS Need CFLS or they wont work as good. Anyone here that before?? This is great advice info and great to talk about. Since I am one who uses the LED Panel 45 watt..


Sah I am having issues with heat and humidity. Since they dont produce alot of heat and dont help with humidity.What can I do to help me out with the panel??? I have them about 2-3"s from the plant and they love it. Come take a look thanks

 

[420ish]

I dunno......

I have taken a couple out and put them under a CFL and they perk up.

They have been that way from the start and even after the transplant and I am using both coco and soil.

They are plenty warm with an air temp of 80 degrees and the pots are 76-78 degrees.

S_a_H

looks like over watering

 

[catness]

getting PAR ratings will not be very easy. For one it is complicated to calculate accuratley, the units used are very large large decimals and such. I am pretty sure there are devices for measuring it but likely very very costly, and plus 50,000 Lumens sounds much better from a marketing stand point. People can relate to those units of measure.

As for flowering, it is my understanding that blue spectrum light around the 450nm range is best for vegging and red spectrum light at like 650nm is best for flowering. Led girl lists "Full Spectrum: 440nm, 470nm, 640nm, 660nm, white + IR" so that should just about nail everything you want, also 70% lights are listed as RED which should mean the 640-660nm spectrum is more emphasized... ie better for buds She can correct me anywhere i am wrong though, im no expert on LED's

EDIT: Just saw she also has a Photon Flux density rating, which is a rating of the PAR light, however I myself have no idea if those numbers are good or not compared to HPS

 

[S_a_H]

looks like over watering

I think that is what was happening earlier but I gave it 3 cups of water before I saw any runoff so I gave them 1.5 cups of water and still looking like that.

I also let one dry out and I gave some water and waited with no better results then gave it some more etc.... and after that I would have been back overwatering.

If I give them any less no water is going to reach the bottom of the pots.

On the next run I do using the LED's I am going to get some trays to put the plants in and water from the bottom up.

Sah I am having issues with heat and humidity. Since they dont produce alot of heat and dont help with humidity.What can I do to help me out with the panel??? I have them about 2-3"s from the plant and they love it. Come take a look thanks

Any idea what your pot temps are ? not air but pot. Here is what I did to find out on mine. ( Pictures )

What is your RH ?


S_a_H