LED and BUD QUALITY

[Prawn Connery]

One thing I have been experimenting with is putting my light panels on an angle to give more light to the sides, less loss on the walls and a greater canopy penetration. It's worked quite well.
I must have deleted the picture of my twin panels on the angle but I found this one. Bit of a Mish mash of what I had left over + some old 4000k panels

Nice. I've done the reverse with the strips along the side facing up 22.5 degrees (half of 45 degrees). This gives side and under-canopy lighting at the same time. More Insta photos. This is an older grow, I'll try to update some photos later.

 

[Prawn Connery]

Wappa is texting spelling for guapa, in spanish, meaning Gorgeous or Beautiful (fem/girl). Ive heard nothing but good about it but i never see it in the smoke clubs. This maybe something to try out...
Im glad to see you back posting

It's a nice hardy Skunk variety. It will seem both familiar and exotic at the same time, because IMO it has a better high and taste. There are other strains out there that might be better, but few that combine so many desirable traits into one plant. It's a good commercial variety and well worth pheno hunting a pack of 5 or 10 fems.

Yeah, I've been busy with other projects so haven't had a lot of time to post lately.

 

[Rocket Soul]

Make a selection and honor your "work" by branding it. Alternatively you can cross it with your current favorite cut and claim the F1 name for having "worked it extensively". In any case your competitors can't easily figure out what you have.
I don't think there's much honesty when it comes to names.


Because shit's expensive. I don't doubt that you understand what you are doing but doing multiple, replicated, studies, with different cultivars but also plant species looking at different aspects of growth, disease resistance and quality/sensory percetions is beyond your capabilities.
That takes research grants.

It depends if you want papers written or just the best setup. Im fully aware of the arduous work of getting papers/science right and what it feels like when you did it all and got no significant results, womp womp, lol.
I think as you approach the final decimals to be had in practice its better just to make your grow into a living experience. But i come from diy, its an different approach.

 

[Scfarmer]

Has anyone attempted a virtual grow with LEDs? I'm tempted to arnage my strips in a 1.5 m high configuration either square /pentagon/hexagon would give me either 600w/ 750w or 900w fixture growing on 3 walls giving me a surface area of 6.75m2

 

[Hiddenjems]

That's one thing I've been searching for! So many years of crappy sub par genetics has been really depressing. I must have tried multiple clones from a friend as well as multiple seeds of different strains from seed banks and so far I've only found one Mimosa that really kicks ass.
I'm hoping something comes from these Amnesia seeds bank seeds but I'm not so confident at the moment that they will stay in rotation.
If anyone has some suggestions for a super quality 8-9 week strain to try next I'd be very happy.

My deathstar clone can finish totally in under 8 weeks.

The best way is to look for strains that are high quality with some examples finishing really fast and others taking the standard 9-10 weeks. Crack 50-100 seeds and select for fast finishing.

 

[Scfarmer]

My deathstar clone can finish totally in under 8 weeks.

The best way is to look for strains that are high quality with some examples finishing really fast and others taking the standard 9-10 weeks. Crack 50-100 seeds and select for fast finishing.

Finding Quality is half the issue. I'm finding seed banks are rarely accurate with their descriptions. I keep falling for the marketing.
Had considered trying Black gorilla next.

 

[Prawn Connery]

The closeup photos I posted are Paradise Seeds Sweetopia. It finishes in 7 weeks, but the yield is low to average. It is probably the favourite clone in my circle. Outstanding quality. One thing about Paradise is their strain descriptions are usually very accurate. I'm currently growing Sunset Paradise, which is described as a 50 day strain and has won a few cups I believe.

Remember also that clones will usually finish up to a week earlier than their seed mothers, so when growing from seed, they always take a little longer, but you end up with a faster finishing clone.

 

[Ca++]

Has anyone attempted a virtual grow with LEDs? I'm tempted to arnage my strips in a 1.5 m high configuration either square /pentagon/hexagon would give me either 600w/ 750w or 900w fixture growing on 3 walls giving me a surface area of 6.75m2

We used to see a lot of vertical growing with HID, but since LED, vertical growing has become a stack of horizontal grows, above each other. Inter-lighting has took off, but the strawberry pot methods are seen less frequently.
Certainly the floor of most tents, isn't as big as just one wall. So working two walls, or even three, is really working it. @PCBuds grew a well side lit plant, but that is the last I saw. This stacked horizontal approach to using vertical space, would be hard with a 2m ceiling. I worked 1.2 meters for a while, and decided I could do it. The upper pots would be in rows, so the lower lights could occupy space between them. An overlap of the two spaces.

The wall grow is awkward. Plants will lean in from the wall. With all the best efforts, A 120cm tent, might have 30cm of plant each side, so a 60cm gap. Lights 30cm from the plants. In this space, working the third wall offers no gain. It's 60cm wide now, but as it grows 30cm deep, it covers 30cm of each side canopy. No net gain to canopy area, from a third wall.
People have built these sort of things, but they seem labour intensive. Your knowledge of the plants is very important, to see exactly when to go 12/12. Most

 

[Ca++]

Human centric lighting would be another application.
High cri, diffuse and a colour (temperature) that complements whatever is shown. Picking the right colour can turn a bland food display into something special.

Them Burple lights to. Should of been left at the 70s disco, not resold to us

 

[Scfarmer]

Them Burple lights to. Should of been left at the 70s disco, not resold to us

I have a couple of those blurple lights. I've got it doing my veg area

 

[Scfarmer]

We used to see a lot of vertical growing with HID, but since LED, vertical growing has become a stack of horizontal grows, above each other. Inter-lighting has took off, but the strawberry pot methods are seen less frequently.
Certainly the floor of most tents, isn't as big as just one wall. So working two walls, or even three, is really working it. @PCBuds grew a well side lit plant, but that is the last I saw. This stacked horizontal approach to using vertical space, would be hard with a 2m ceiling. I worked 1.2 meters for a while, and decided I could do it. The upper pots would be in rows, so the lower lights could occupy space between them. An overlap of the two spaces.

The wall grow is awkward. Plants will lean in from the wall. With all the best efforts, A 120cm tent, might have 30cm of plant each side, so a 60cm gap. Lights 30cm from the plants. In this space, working the third wall offers no gain. It's 60cm wide now, but as it grows 30cm deep, it covers 30cm of each side canopy. No net gain to canopy area, from a third wall.
People have built these sort of things, but they seem labour intensive. Your knowledge of the plants is very important, to see exactly when to go 12/12. Most

Ah I see, so really it's two sides max, I'm just thinking about trying to reduce my mini tent city but maintain surface area

 

[Scfarmer]

The closeup photos I posted are Paradise Seeds Sweetopia. It finishes in 7 weeks, but the yield is low to average. It is probably the favourite clone in my circle. Outstanding quality. One thing about Paradise is their strain descriptions are usually very accurate. I'm currently growing Sunset Paradise, which is described as a 50 day strain and has won a few cups I believe.

Remember also that clones will usually finish up to a week earlier than their seed mothers, so when growing from seed, they always take a little longer, but you end up with a faster finishing clone.

I will check out paradise seeds.
Currently testing out Amnesia seeds Frozen Black Cherry ( advertises upto 35% THC but doesn't look like on either of my 4 phenos )
Amnesia Seeds Blackberry Moonrocks again quoting 30% + but doesn't look very frosty. Also I had terrible germination rates from this company .
It is worth noting I've had low temps and out of control humidity for the majority of flower , now this is sorted it would be unfair to write them off until I've re ran the clones. I will start a journal when this comes around . Should be interesting as it will be a combination of strips, CMH and where no CMH I will add some incandescents.

 

[Prawn Connery]

Ah I see, so really it's two sides max, I'm just thinking about trying to reduce my mini tent city but maintain surface area

I grew vertically for many years in a 4x4 (1.2m x 1.2m) box that I built myself (before tents were all the rage) with 2x 600W HPS bare bulbs.

I do have an idea for a vertical LED setup, but it requires a hexagonal extrusion (tube). You could possibly do it with a square tube – with strips mounted to all four sides – but the light distribution/overlap is not as good as a hexagon.

There are hollow, hexagonal extrusions out there that I was planning to use, and so I would use a 1m-1.2m length with 2x 480mm High Light strips mounted end-to-end each side (12x total) and have active cooling (fan) on the floor blowing up, over the LEDS, as well as through the middle of hollow extrusion (PC fan possibly) to actively cool the heatsink.

By my calculation (based on previous experience), you need at least a 1.5' (45-50cm) diameter circle around the vertically hung LEDS as clearance, so the plants could grow about 20cm away. You would place a round tube trellis (a tube of fencing wire) around the vertical LEDS, and that would support the plants as they grew towards the LEDs. Then you simply weave the branches into the trellis – like a vertical scrog – and train the plants that way.

No need to turn the plants – they grow where the light is – and you end up with a canopy that grows around the LEDs and is much larger than the floor area of the tent.

A 1.5' diameter circle that is 5' high, for example, has a canopy surface area of (3.142 x 1.5 x 5 =) 23.5 sqft. A 4x4 tent has a floor area (nominal canopy surface area) of only 16 sqft.

Yes, it can be done!

 

[Prawn Connery]

I will check out paradise seeds.
Currently testing out Amnesia seeds Frozen Black Cherry ( advertises upto 35% THC but doesn't look like on either of my 4 phenos )
Amnesia Seeds Blackberry Moonrocks again quoting 30% + but doesn't look very frosty. Also I had terrible germination rates from this company .
It is worth noting I've had low temps and out of control humidity for the majority of flower , now this is sorted it would be unfair to write them off until I've re ran the clones. I will start a journal when this comes around . Should be interesting as it will be a combination of strips, CMH and where no CMH I will add some incandescents.

I know I sound like a Paradise Seeds shill – in a way I am(!) – but I've known Luc for over 20 years now and he has been around a long time in the industry – since before he started the company in 1994. He is an ethical guy who has a good reputation.

As I said, there might be some better strains out there, but his seeds are generally reliable and match their descriptions. I've put a lot of people on to Paradise Seeds over the years and all have been happy.

If you like Sativas - and don't mind growing 12-13 week indoor varieties – the Haze pheno in Luc's Atomical Haze is stellar. Indeed, the vertical grow photos I just posted above are the exact same strain. You will find the Haze pheno in about 1 in 5 female Atomical Haze seeds. The others are nice, but I like the extreme haze pheno!

 

[Scfarmer]

I grew vertically for many years in a 4x4 (1.2m x 1.2m) box that I built myself (before tents were all the rage) with 2x 600W HPS bare bulbs.

I do have an idea for a vertical LED setup, but it requires a hexagonal extrusion (tube). You could possibly do it with a square tube – with strips mounted to all four sides – but the light distribution/overlap is not as good as a hexagon.

There are hollow, hexagonal extrusions out there that I was planning to use, and so I would use a 1m-1.2m length with 2x 480mm High Light strips mounted end-to-end each side (12x total) and have active cooling (fan) on the floor blowing up, over the LEDS, as well as through the middle of hollow extrusion (PC fan possibly) to actively cool the heatsink.

By my calculation (based on previous experience), you need at least a 1.5' (45-50cm) diameter circle around the vertically hung LEDS as clearance, so the plants could grow about 20cm away. You would place a round tube trellis (a tube of fencing wire) around the vertical LEDS, and that would support the plants as they grew towards the LEDs. Then you simply weave the branches into the trellis – like a vertical scrog – and train the plants that way.

No need to turn the plants – they grow where the light is – and you end up with a canopy that grows around the LEDs and is much larger than the floor area of the tent.

A 1.5' diameter circle that is 5' high, for example, has a canopy surface area of (3.142 x 1.5 x 5 =) 23.5 sqft. A 4x4 tent has a floor area (nominal canopy surface area) of only 16 sqft.

Yes, it can be done!

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That's exactly what I was getting at with either a pentagon or hexagon shape with those strips. I have to weight it up against doing 2 walls or as you described. Atleast with the wall I can just do a back to back panel ( which I already have effectively currently at 1200x 600 each ) then train up the opposite wall. I could even hang a single or dual 315 CMH and have 1.200x in 300 panel with CMH in th middle then another 1200x300 panel .
1460w 1.2 or 1.5 so I can actually get in there

 

[Orange's Greenhouse]

I do have an idea for a vertical LED setup, but it requires a hexagonal extrusion (tube). You could possibly do it with a square tube – with strips mounted to all four sides – but the light distribution/overlap is not as good as a hexagon.

I'm not sure you need hexagonal tubing for that. If you 3D print yourself some hexagonal couplers with something like ASA (glass transition temperature 100 °C) and mount the strips with normal 40 or 50 mm wide heat sinks that would serve the same purpose. Add a Fan to the top and bottom for forced convection and heat won't be an issue.

 

[Scfarmer]

I'm not sure you need hexagonal tubing for that. If you 3D print yourself some hexagonal couplers with something like ASA (glass transition temperature 100 °C) and mount the strips with normal 40 or 50 mm wide heat sinks that would serve the same purpose. Add a Fan to the top and bottom for forced convection and heat won't be an issue.

I was thinking along those lines but more bodged ...something to form the shape + zip ties to hold it together doubt I would need a fan my 60mm heat sinks keep my strips under 40c in summer running 50w

 

[Rocket Soul]

That's exactly what I was getting at with either a pentagon or hexagon shape with those strips. I have to weight it up against doing 2 walls or as you described. Atleast with the wall I can just do a back to back panel ( which I already have effectively currently at 1200x 600 each ) then train up the opposite wall. I could even hang a single or dual 315 CMH and have 1.200x in 300 panel with CMH in th middle then another 1200x300 panel .
1460w 1.2 or 1.5 so I can actually get in there

I looked at this along with many other crazy designs, and its a joy to see others going down the same thought patterns. If i recall my idea right i decided that hexagonal was not an option; too hard to find and too expensive, i would at least be prepared to find the same conclusion. In your case i would go square, hopefully 3mm thick at least and either 2 or 3 strips each side. So at least 100mm per side.
You cannot make each unit to long, you need to have access and reach inside the tube in order to be able to do the inside bit with screws. Remember to checke your arm size, the gym is your enemy but the help of a slender lady is your friend.
The corner sides will hay a little less coverage, cant be helped. You need an open space and several of these tubes, one is not enough.
You talk about 6m2, thats a lot of watts needed for effective lighting, id say 2400 watts! Thats at least 50 strips, and one 0.5 m section could take 8 for 400ish watts. Thats a stretch in heat dissipation for the tube: you need very good aircooling inside and maybe even diy some extra surface area with u-channel and screw it all together. What your thing of is really complicated.
Look for vertical grows with multiple bulbs hanging inside a cannopy, around the plants, for inspiration @greyfader can maybe help. If your thinking in a tent im not sure if it wouldnt be easier to just get something like 4x qb kits (2 or 3 boards) and then just find a way to weld (or other solution, welding alu supposed to be hard) it all together in a tube, and same aircooling inside. One fan pushing one fan pulling.

If you go thru with this and get it right mad respect. Big challenge, big reward; you could even do some extraction thru your tube to get the heat out of your space in summer.

Ill look into finding some links for you.

 

[Ca++]

Regarding the hex, if the panels are rigid, that's a lot easier than if they were tape. The panels become part of the structure, and so just a couple of hexs cut from 18mm thick board might be enough. A hole through the middle of the hexs for air. Then I'm guessing the panels have mounting holes, so it's just screw it together.

Much easier to make diy level kit, than retail worthy.

 

[JKD]

Extra cost, but a rotating light mover you wouldn’t need the hex LED. Hang your LED vertically from the centre hook. Gives the option also of using the arms and hanging another LED for the outside of your vertical scrog. Otherwise, don’t attach them.