LED and BUD QUALITY

[smirnoff420]

Has anyone attempted a virtual grow with LEDs? I'm tempted to arnage my strips in a 1.5 m high configuration either square /pentagon/hexagon would give me either 600w/ 750w or 900w fixture growing on 3 walls giving me a surface area of 6.75m2

Yes, but only in small cabinets around 0.5m²

 

[smirnoff420]

Regarding square or hex tubes, this is a radiation angle diagram of Samsung LM301B LEDs.

Square would mean 360/4=90 degrees. So -45 and +45 in the diagram or roughly 70% of light at the edges worstcase compared to center.

Hexagon would mean around 85-90%.

 

[Ca++]

@JKD
Extra cost, but a rotating light mover you wouldn’t need the hex LED. Hang your LED vertically from the centre hook. Gives the option also of using the arms and hanging another LED for the outside of your vertical scrog. Otherwise, don’t attach them. View attachment 19085366


There is a difficult to achieve stretch avoidance technique, where the tops are brushed regularly. Perhaps if these arms reached out as far as the plants, then a weighted line could be dropped. Said line, would brush anything getting into the zone. Helping with training.

I would have to try, if using such a thing. I also see your idea of just lights in the middle. The QBs and others, have screw holes for eye bolts. They would easy hang from each-other, with the obligatory cable ties.

 

[smirnoff420]

I recently added 6500k LEDs to combat stretch. Will see in the next weeks how that goes.


Edit: Here is a pic where you can see the leds better.

7 stripes with 98x Bridgelux Thrive 4000K LEDs each vertical, around 700 LEDs

Ceiling is around 600 LEDs LM281B+ 3500K and 600 LEDs LM281B+ 6500K

Currently the 3500Ks at the ceiling are off.

 

[greyfader]

I grew vertically for many years in a 4x4 (1.2m x 1.2m) box that I built myself (before tents were all the rage) with 2x 600W HPS bare bulbs.

I do have an idea for a vertical LED setup, but it requires a hexagonal extrusion (tube). You could possibly do it with a square tube – with strips mounted to all four sides – but the light distribution/overlap is not as good as a hexagon.

There are hollow, hexagonal extrusions out there that I was planning to use, and so I would use a 1m-1.2m length with 2x 480mm High Light strips mounted end-to-end each side (12x total) and have active cooling (fan) on the floor blowing up, over the LEDS, as well as through the middle of hollow extrusion (PC fan possibly) to actively cool the heatsink.

By my calculation (based on previous experience), you need at least a 1.5' (45-50cm) diameter circle around the vertically hung LEDS as clearance, so the plants could grow about 20cm away. You would place a round tube trellis (a tube of fencing wire) around the vertical LEDS, and that would support the plants as they grew towards the LEDs. Then you simply weave the branches into the trellis – like a vertical scrog – and train the plants that way.

No need to turn the plants – they grow where the light is – and you end up with a canopy that grows around the LEDs and is much larger than the floor area of the tent.

A 1.5' diameter circle that is 5' high, for example, has a canopy surface area of (3.142 x 1.5 x 5 =) 23.5 sqft. A 4x4 tent has a floor area (nominal canopy surface area) of only 16 sqft.

Yes, it can be done!

View attachment 19085223

View attachment 19085224

View attachment 19085222

nice! i grew vertical trees for many years with the plants in a checkerboard pattern on 6 ft centers. i dropped a 1000 watt hortilux hps super vertically between each group of 4 plants, except for along the walls and corners, where i used 600 watt bulbs. this put at least 250 watts on every side of every plant.

i, too, used metal fencing encircling the plant as trellis.

with reflectix walls, almost all light produced will eventually be intercepted by plant material.

this worked in spaces like basements or two car garages with about 12 plants.

but for rooms with approx dimensions of 10x10ft , 10x12ft, 12x 12ft or so, the best arrangement i've used is the old heath robinson pattern.

this was 4 plants against the center of each wall with a single 1000 watt bulb hung vertically in the middle and 4 600's in the corners. 3600 total watts on four large plants.

this could be done with leds. the four sided extrusion would be ideal for the center position. and maybe the hexagonal extrusion with 3 sides lit for the corners.

one of the problems with vertically hung hps bare bulbs was that the sweet spot of the light came off the 10" long arc tube like a pineapple slice, radiately outward and only slightly fattening as it reached out.

this could be corrected with leds by making the vertical strips longer so that they hit a larger surface area of the plant simultaneously.

i used two vertical bulbs in each position for a while, one up and one down, suspended by chains. these would be flipped back and forth twice per period as in 3 hours low, 3 hours high, 3 hours low, 3 hours high.

this gave pretty good coverage for 6 ft upright plants.

 

[greyfader]

@JKD
Extra cost, but a rotating light mover you wouldn’t need the hex LED. Hang your LED vertically from the centre hook. Gives the option also of using the arms and hanging another LED for the outside of your vertical scrog. Otherwise, don’t attach them. View attachment 19085366


There is a difficult to achieve stretch avoidance technique, where the tops are brushed regularly. Perhaps if these arms reached out as far as the plants, then a weighted line could be dropped. Said line, would brush anything getting into the zone. Helping with training.

I would have to try, if using such a thing. I also see your idea of just lights in the middle. The QBs and others, have screw holes for eye bolts. They would easy hang from each-other, with the obligatory cable ties.

i suspected you were one of those thigmotropic fellows!

 

[PCBuds]

So working two walls, or even three, is really working it. @PCBuds grew a well side lit plant, but that is the last I saw

I've actually got all four walls lit up and the ceiling.

I've got 48 LED strips in the closet with only 8 on the ceiling (four double length strips).

And some of the plants I grew,..

And the LED strips that I'm using,..

And the sunburn caused by a bazillion lumens.

And a baby girl doing push-ups,..

 

[Rocket Soul]

I've actually got all four walls lit up and the ceiling.

I've got 48 LED strips in the closet with only 8 on the ceiling (four double length strips).


View attachment 19085472

And some of the plants I grew,..

View attachment 19085473 View attachment 19085475 View attachment 19085477


And the LED strips that I'm using,..


View attachment 19085480 View attachment 19085481 View attachment 19085491



And the sunburn caused by a bazillion lumens.

View attachment 19085492 View attachment 19085493



And a baby girl doing push-ups,..

View attachment 19085494

This is awesome, something i always wanted to build. My favorite place in Spain is Fornalutx: meaning light oven, which seems very appropriate here. Our place is open space so not really apt but i might get a tent going when i reclaim my flat next year.

 

[PCBuds]

@PCBuds grew a well side lit plant, but that is the last I saw.

I grew almost a pound with my last plant.
It takes me a Long Time to smoke it all.

I intend to start another plant shortly.

I'm rebuilding my grow by reinstalling the LED strips.
I'm just going to stick or screw them to the walls without ventilation spacers.

I run the lights at half maximum so they never get too hot to touch.

I'm not going to bother with the shields this time.
They are unnecessary if the strips aren't HOT.
Fingerprints and buds touching the LED segments don't matter if the strips aren't screaming hot.
(It's like fingerprints on halogen headlights on a car. I just turn them down.
For the cost of a heat sink to cool a strip, I can pay for and add another strip.
The strips are most efficient at half maximum as well.)

 

[PCBuds]

,.. i might get a tent going when i reclaim my flat next year.

If you grow feminized Autoflowers, you don't need a tent, and you don't have to worry about light leaks or power outages messing up your Timing.

I installed Panda Film to reflect as much light as possible back into the plant.

It's waterproof and light proof.

I sprout a single seed at a time and grow it until harvest, or until it croaks.
Luckily only the babies seem to croak on me, until mold sets in later in life.

I HATE HUMIDITY !!!

 

[PCBuds]

This is awesome, something i always wanted to build. My favorite place in Spain is Fornalutx: meaning light oven,

It's legal to grow here in Canada, so I don't care about people smelling my plant or light leaks.
I don't know about Spain?

So yeah, I've got a light oven at between 300 and 500 Watts total.

Which works nicely in the winter to help heat the house and I can enjoy the easy growing with dry winter air.

 

[PCBuds]

This is a link to my extremely long winded thread from the beginning.

I didn't take notes and did things the wrong way on purpose to see what would happen.

I pissed off a few people by doing wrong shit, but to this day I have NO NEED for HUMIDITY !!!
Except for babies .

The risk of mold later in life can take a plant that should be ready for harvest.

Diary - PCBuds mini-grow

I'm new to this site and quite new to growing. I want to post some pics and info of what I'm doing now in the hopes of getting some input. My last grow was a bust so I'm starting over. I got some Miracle Grow potting soil, 5 litres of pearlite, 5 litres of vermiculite and some garden lime. I...

www.icmag.com

If you don't care to read through it all, you can just check out the cool pictures like this,..

Underwater roots aren't fuzzy.
The roots only need fuzz to pull moisture from the air.

 

[Ca++]

i suspected you were one of those thigmotropic fellows!

Was it the razor edged ceiling fans?
Things with motors to take pics of, were always my thing, but I didn't know it was a psychiatric disorder. I'm impressed you would know this.

For us, their action is to hesitate. Perhaps no reason to grow upwards, to where you might get scalped.

 

[Rocket Soul]

It's legal to grow here in Canada, so I don't care about people smelling my plant or light leaks.
I don't know about Spain?

So yeah, I've got a light oven at between 300 and 500 Watts total.

Which works nicely in the winter to help heat the house and I can enjoy the easy growing with dry winter air.

Spain: a complicated situation of non legal permissiveness to grow for self consumption. The matter for me has been lack of a good situation with space at home and with ample grow possibilities at my friends place who grows midsized comercial in the mountains. Ive consulted with him ever since i helped him with his led conversion. But it means that growing serves his purpose and not mine: no freedom to chose strains/system etc.
This changes next year
Rules are basicly : make sure that nobody sees you doing it the we (popo) dont get a call about it. Very Spanish; do it but dont get caught, lol.

They can still do you for it by arguing sales or similar, especially if they need to push you for something like info or if they just feel like it. Its a policing directive, not a law change. On the street smoking: 1000-10000 euro fine.

 

[greyfader]

Was it the razor edged ceiling fans?
Things with motors to take pics of, were always my thing, but I didn't know it was a psychiatric disorder. I'm impressed you would know this.

For us, their action is to hesitate. Perhaps no reason to grow upwards, to where you might get scalped.

we each have our own methods for demanding respect and compliance from our plants.

i treat mine well, feeding them and making sure they are comfortable. but, i don't want them to become complacent and take things for granted so once in a while i'll pink them with the tip of my switchblade just to let them know who's boss.

 

[smirnoff420]

Fingerprints and buds touching the LED segments don't matter if the strips aren't screaming hot.

Once I was on vacation during flower, underestimated the stretch. The buds grew into the LEDs. Several LEDs broken on three different stripes after that.

 

[Rocket Soul]

we each have our own methods for demanding respect and compliance from our plants.

i treat mine well, feeding them and making sure they are comfortable. but, i don't want them to become complacent and take things for granted so once in a while i'll pink them with the tip of my switchblade just to let them know who's boss.

As with anything modern: its harder to get plants to "man-up" under leds than with the old bulbs. But if you baby them around for a bit and put some attention and love into them they flourish greatly.
I hope the same is true of gen Z and especially Alpha: we sorely need to dial in their VPD or else we are all thoroughly f-ed. But atthe same time they will likely say the same about gen Delta and remember the time when they were young and left to manage in the world with nothing but a smartphone, none this Holodeck nonsense and replicators,

Nobody knows how hard those HPS plants actually had it. And imagine the ones out in the Sun?!?!?

 

[greyfader]

As with anything modern: its harder to get plants to "man-up" under leds than with the old bulbs. But if you baby them around for a bit and put some attention and love into them they flourish greatly.
I hope the same is true of gen Z and especially Alpha: we sorely need to dial in their VPD or else we are all thoroughly f-ed. But atthe same time they will likely say the same about gen Delta and remember the time when they were young and left to manage in the world with nothing but a smartphone, none this Holodeck nonsense and replicators,
View attachment 19085620
Nobody knows how hard those HPS plants actually had it. And imagine the ones out in the Sun?!?!?

wait! what? you mean you need more than a smart phone? what if you are naturally born so hip and cool that the world owes you success?

shouldn't take more than a smart phone! even one of those is an unnessessary accouterment for one born thusly blessed!

such a one need only step outside in the morning, spread their arms and face the sun, and receive all they deserve.

 

[greyfader]

i thought some of you might like to see how the photone app stacks up against a $500 par meter. not too bad!

taken from;

 

[PCBuds]

This is awesome, something i always wanted to build. My favorite place in Spain is Fornalutx: meaning light oven, which seems very appropriate here. Our place is open space so not really apt but i might get a tent going when i reclaim my flat next year.

For reference, my closet measures 21" X 21" X 96"
I am using a SIP container with about 4 liters of nutrient solution at the bottom with an air bubbler.

I have a 5 gallon pail of wine brewing under the plant for additional CO2.

I keep everything electric above the waterline to help reduce the shock hazard.

I do use a couple incandescent bulbs to heat the closet, but I screwed up and got spray on the bulb and it blew up.

I'm gonna use the shields again for my next grow.
I found this picture of one of my plants, and it was pushing pretty hard on the walls, so I guess I better keep using them?