LED and BUD QUALITY

[greyfader]

thinking about the problem of inaccurate reading using organic ferts you might consider using a small amount of mineral salt ferts for a short time to help you get a feel for the right organic dose.

take maybe a 1/2 strength dose of organic ferts into a known quantity of water and then add mineral ferts until you get a reading of about 200 ppm or ec .4.

then using the same quantity of water and the same dose of mineral ferts raise or lower the organic ferts until you get close to what you want to see on the plants.

do that level long enough to make sure it is repeatable, then drop the mineral ferts and bump up the organic ferts slightly until you maintain the same performance.

 

[Rocket Soul]

if you increase air flow with fans to the point where a bic butane lighter blows out anywhere in the room you won't get bud rot.

also, if you run your room a/c on the low fan setting it will remove more moisture from the air than on the high fan setting.

i know this sounds counter-intuitive but i learned it from a pro hvac installer. what happens is the slower airflow over the a/c coils creates a longer contact time and therefore removes more water from the air.

if you have a programmable grow room a/c you should have it begin dropping temperature 2 hours before lights out to help remove a little more moisture before the dark period begins.

airflow is critical. every leaf on every plant should show some slight movement. this laminar flow helps keep what moisture there is from accumulating on the plant and mixed into the air mass of the room instead.

i you are using led lighting the lights on ambient temp should be around 86f or 30 c.

i like rh to be around 60% lights on and 50% lights off but the quicker you pull the rh down upon lights off the better.

i like that app. i'll check it out. i need one that reports co2 as well.

+ 1 on the airflow. This is why we grow big plants with long naked trunks: moving air above and below cannopy has made budrot and om an thing of the past in our grow. Not seen it in over a year, sometimes i dry and cure though.

Btw, can anyone help out with ideas for swinging fans but reducing wattage? If i understand correctly theres a lot of power getting lost and dc fans are more effective.
Or opinions on smaller but more intense or larger but less intense fans? We need to anything to reduce unnecessary wattage.

@Scfarmer maybe some smaller dc fans pushing air around the pots could help? Not direct towards leaves and cannopy, just generally pushing air around in a "diffused" way. Not sure if viable but why not try? Small dc fans can move a lot of air using little wattage.

 

[Scfarmer]

thinking about the problem of inaccurate reading using organic ferts you might consider using a small amount of mineral salt ferts for a short time to help you get a feel for the right organic dose.

take maybe a 1/2 strength dose of organic ferts into a known quantity of water and then add mineral ferts until you get a reading of about 200 ppm or ec .4.

then using the same quantity of water and the same dose of mineral ferts raise or lower the organic ferts until you get close to what you want to see on the plants.

do that level long enough to make sure it is repeatable, then drop the mineral ferts and bump up the organic ferts slightly until you maintain the same performance.

Only one flaw in that , my base water is 0.5EC because I live in a really high mineral area ., I think il just go with it at 3/4 the recommended dose and see how plants react, measure that EC and adjust a little

 

[Rocket Soul]

Only one flaw in that , my base water is 0.5EC because I live in a really high mineral area ., I think il just go with it at 3/4 the recommended dose and see how plants react, measure that EC and adjust a little

Have you considered collecting rain water? If i understand right you have an abundance...

 

[Scfarmer]

Cheers for the insights. I did have air moving like that but I was worried about too much direct air on the plants messing up transpiration so I turned some of the fans down/off then the bus rot set in but I was still in 80-90 humidity at that point.

Annoying thing about reading conflicting information online. Due to the height restrictions and letting my plants get way to tall I cant get my fans airflow that far above the canopy. Basically I was on holiday during the stretch period and I came home to a jungle.
Next one I will though.
No room AC I'm literally in a tight roof space with roof shaped tents.
The only way I can really get my temps up to that level is to reduce my extraction rate, I'd rather not run heaters. I am going to get another dehumidifier for my other tent though.
With 400w led 315w CMH I'm barely hitting 26c right now.
680w led and 315 CMH I'm hitting 27 but average is more like 26 again

if you increase air flow with fans to the point where a bic butane lighter blows out anywhere in the room you won't get bud rot.

also, if you run your room a/c on the low fan setting it will remove more moisture from the air than on the high fan setting.

i know this sounds counter-intuitive but i learned it from a pro hvac installer. what happens is the slower airflow over the a/c coils creates a longer contact time and therefore removes more water from the air.

if you have a programmable grow room a/c you should have it begin dropping temperature 2 hours before lights out to help remove a little more moisture before the dark period begins.

airflow is critical. every leaf on every plant should show some slight movement. this laminar flow helps keep what moisture there is from accumulating on the plant and mixed into the air mass of the room instead.

i you are using led lighting the lights on ambient temp should be around 86f or 30 c.

i like rh to be around 60% lights on and 50% lights off but the quicker you pull the rh down upon lights off the better.

i like that app. i'll check it out. i need one that reports co2 as well.

 

[Scfarmer]

Have you considered collecting rain water? If i understand right you have an abundance...

I could, however it's getting it upto my grow space that's a pain the ass. Atmo I just tap it off my central heating gravity tank.

 

[Ca++]

ideas for swinging fans but reducing wattage? If i understand correctly theres a lot of power getting lost and dc fans are more effective.
Or opinions on smaller but more intense or larger but less intense fans? We need to anything to reduce unnecessary wattage.

You might be able to save 75% of your power consumption, and over 50% is very likely. I would need to order quite a few though, to get a good price. The cost is keeping them out of the mainstream, but some can still be found on the highstreet. Meaco probably do one. It's EC motors you want. They plug in the wall like any other, then take care of the AC to DC conversion themselves, and distribute the power internally, using positional sensing and wave shaping. The AC fan is dead really, but this has pushed there price down so much, they keep the market. A 7" clip fan is about $3 now. The EC version might be $15. Only legislation will really make them get to our shelves. Today, they are still a novelty on the highstreet, in $150 stand fans that are covered in useless buttons and lights. As yet, they are not set for external grow controllers, but likely have a useless remote and phone app. They don't tend to say what they are though, as consumers would glaze over. It's things like lots of speed settings that give them away. Selected electronically, not with clunky switches. I just bumped a fan thread, and somebody has posted something close, that's not for a stand, but maybe a wall. Buyer beware though, I have not seen one personally, and did buy similar, only to find they had still cheaped out on the motor. It went in the bin, and wasn't cheap. Just a pretender.

Edit: I have messaged my supplier about EC stand fans with the usb-c port for external controllers. I'm pretty sure they don't exist yet, but it will wake them up. I should get some options for you soon. Need many? You may wish to PM, as might anyone else interested in a production run. I could arrange individual contact with my guy, to total the orders to a decent minimum. Then they could ship to different locations. We need never know who eachother are.

 

[Rocket Soul]

Its

You might be able to save 75% of your power consumption, and over 50% is very likely. I would need to order quite a few though, to get a good price. The cost is keeping them out of the mainstream, but some can still be found on the highstreet. Meaco probably do one. It's EC motors you want. They plug in the wall like any other, then take care of the AC to DC conversion themselves, and distribute the power internally, using positional sensing and wave shaping. The AC fan is dead really, but this has pushed there price down so much, they keep the market. A 7" clip fan is about $3 now. The EC version might be $15. Only legislation will really make them get to our shelves. Today, they are still a novelty on the highstreet, in $150 stand fans that are covered in useless buttons and lights. As yet, they are not set for external grow controllers, but likely have a useless remote and phone app. They don't tend to say what they are though, as consumers would glaze over. It's things like lots of speed settings that give them away. Selected electronically, not with clunky switches. I just bumped a fan thread, and somebody has posted something close, that's not for a stand, but maybe a wall. Buyer beware though, I have not seen one personally, and did buy similar, only to find they had still cheaped out on the motor. It went in the bin, and wasn't cheap. Just a pretender.

Edit: I have messaged my supplier about EC stand fans with the usb-c port for external controllers. I'm pretty sure they don't exist yet, but it will wake them up. I should get some options for you soon. Need many? You may wish to PM, as might anyone else interested in a production run. I could arrange individual contact with my guy, to total the orders to a decent minimum. Then they could ship to different locations. We need never know who eachother are.

Thx Ca, stellar stuff. Not inplace to make an order yet cause im far from the grow for a while. But the advice is very appreciated, thinking forward. Ill hit you up for info on those fans.
Do you or anyone know if preferable; say 30w fan 12" or 30 w 6"? Had a small fan but same powered as the big floor fan: they probably moved the same amount of air. But the small would dry me in no time after showers (poor mans AC in spanish heat wave, get wet and then fan dry). Just trying to figure out based on lateral experience

 

[JKD]

I’ve wondered whether this sort of thing can be used, if there’s space for the panels:

 

[Scfarmer]

I’ve wondered whether this sort of thing can be used, if there’s space for the panels:

I looked at things like this for my outdoor gorilla grows back in the day be awesome to hook that up to run 24/7

 

[Ca++]

Its

Thx Ca, stellar stuff. Not inplace to make an order yet cause im far from the grow for a while. But the advice is very appreciated, thinking forward. Ill hit you up for info on those fans.
Do you or anyone know if preferable; say 30w fan 12" or 30 w 6"? Had a small fan but same powered as the big floor fan: they probably moved the same amount of air. But the small would dry me in no time after showers (poor mans AC in spanish heat wave, get wet and then fan dry). Just trying to figure out based on lateral experience

The smaller fan likely used a shaded pole motor, as nearly all smaller ones do. With 30w it should have no problem keeping up with the 50Hz mains. Keeping very close to 3000rpm.
The 30w 12" might of been 4 pole, 1500rpm. I'm not sure a 30w build would try for a 2 pole 3000rpm motor, it's probably too fast to achieve.
This is already starting to explain why both might of shifted as much air as 30w of power can do.
The smaller fan, is shifting this much air, in a smaller space, at higher velocity.

That's my best guess, without actually knowing.

I just picked up an 8" fan of just 10w, that can do 1300rpm as it's the efficient EC type. 1300rpm is it's target, and if I try to slow it, it will apply more power to keep on track. I'm intent in using the 900rpm setting, to blow down quietly over my 6, to put it's heat on my canopy. Instead of letting the carbon take that ~100w of convected heat, straight away.
RRP... wait for it... £280
It better be good.

This is why I'm looking at IR cameras and such. I want better air movement. I think your notes about stripping plants to main branches should be echoing around my mind. I have people I taught bemused with why I'm not doing this myself, having showed them to do it. I have been trying to do as little as possible, out of lazyness more than plant improvement.

I don't suppose you are in the UK. I will come and fetch you. I have a pillowcase.

 

[greyfader]

i don't leave any growth below the screen. it helps with airflow and focuses growth to the ends.

 

[Ca++]

I'm behaving myself in that respect. It's when we get to the net, I'm not doing all I could. I have too many branches really, or shoots from them. I think this net is 6" squares, so i really want just a couple of big buds competing for each, I think. Instead, over that area and it's full depth, I have... far too many. The chance of light hitting the floor, is like the lottery. Which isn't a bad thing, but it's not even close to that

edit: just looking at my pics, I could be kidding myself. Thursday I'm a week in, and going under again


China got back about the stand fans. They said no problem just making the right one, but that's a lot of people with no left leg.
I will try again.

 

[I Care]

You guys pay a lot for fans in the mother land, I noticed when I was there, basic stuff in NoAm is like impossible or expensive in in the brexit territory. There are new fans that I am using which are 2.5w motor usb powered aluminum blade fans. I got three of them about 15 in generic packaging, they might be small EC Computer fan motors. I also have 8” Active Air 10w clip fan at a hydro shop that I believe is an EC motor like from a server fan.

I like this oscillating EC stand fan idea, possibke something like this will be available here in NoAm at some point soon, not necessarily at an affordable price. All I could find online was the stuff that is made for grow tents of electronics and absurdly expensive so I bought multiple efficient fans local for the cost of one grow fan.

Cheers for the insights. I did have air moving like that but I was worried about too much direct air on the plants messing up transpiration so I turned some of the fans down/off then the bus rot set in but I was still in 80-90 humidity at that point.

Annoying thing about reading conflicting information online. Due to the height restrictions and letting my plants get way to tall I cant get my fans airflow that far above the canopy. Basically I was on holiday during the stretch period and I came home to a jungle.
Next one I will though.
No room AC I'm literally in a tight roof space with roof shaped tents.
The only way I can really get my temps up to that level is to reduce my extraction rate, I'd rather not run heaters. I am going to get another dehumidifier for my other tent though.
With 400w led 315w CMH I'm barely hitting 26c right now.
680w led and 315 CMH I'm hitting 27 but average is more like 26 again

I made the same mistake cause of some misinformation this summer. Had my whole plant shimmying, tried a suggestion and then the elements add up. What’s I don’t want to see is dry air from an HVAC system directed at plants, as long as the fan isn’t knocking a plant on its side then I want the entire plant showered with air. The more the merrier when growing in a tent or a walled grow space, especially if that is a space without a rapid air exchange; unlike outdoors or indoor space with rapid ventilation.

 

[smirnoff420]

A 5-Pack of these 140mm fans also moves quite a lot of air. Strap them together with zip ties, attach 12V power supply, done.

They're also very quiet, even more when running them on less voltage, like 9V.

Arctic P14 Static Pressure 140mm PWM PST Fans (5 Pack​

 

[Ca++]

I think the whole world gets the 4" usb fans, for a fiver. There is also a whole range of slightly bigger stuff, but they keep putting batteries in them, and silly timer functions. The world is kept waiting for the typical desk and stand fans, that are just made better. I can get the parts from failed ventures, so it's close. Today though, they just keep telling us stuff is silent and efficient, when it's the same old stuff.

This is perhaps the real deal, but it's a hideous over priced mess

MeacoFan 1056P Pedestal Air Circulator​

 

[Ca++]

A 5-Pack of these 140mm fans also moves quite a lot of air. Strap them together with zip ties, attach 12V power supply, done.

They're also very quiet, even more when running them on less voltage, like 9V.

The 'co' version (constant operation) uses ball bearings for universal positioning, and offers a 10 year warranty. I have been using a couple myself, and I'm happy enough. I have settled on wiring them with a daisy chain of 40cm extensions, and 3 way splitters. One after the other

Then I run them off a variable supply, leaving just the task of making the supply attach to the case fans 2.54mm jst plugs.

It does start clocking up though, and many people want a plug in fan, with mounting hardware. Perhaps oscillation. Which is £30, so not a lot more.

 

[smirnoff420]

For DIYing a fan that moves left and right, maybe such a R/C servo tester which supports 'window wiper mode', plus a R/C Servo plus a 5V power supply could work.

 

[I Care]

an interesting build, oscillating column(s) of fans

 

[I Care]

Cables and pulleys to connect the entire perimeter to one servo and capable of multiple columns