LED and BUD QUALITY

[CannaT]

As an example, this is the chart provided by Philips themselves for their MASTER GreenPower 600W 400V E40 bulb.

UV range is 100-400nm, with the red arrow.

View attachment 18882430

Its about visible light spectrum UV are not in that range

 

[goingrey]

Its about visible light spectrum UV are not in that range

The chart clearly goes beyond the visible range (400-700nm) in both directions.

Unless your claim is that after nothing at about 380nm, there is some sudden new peak in the 100-300nm range that has been left out of the chart. Please provide some support for this claim if that is the case. Why would they leave it out of the chart?

 

[CannaT]

The chart clearly goes beyond the visible range (400-700nm) in both directions.

Unless your claim is that after nothing at about 380nm, there is some sudden new peak in the 100-300nm range that has been left out of the chart. Please provide some support for this claim if that is the case. Why would they leave it out of the chart?

Send them E mail im not light producer.

 

[CannaT]

Most HID lamps produce significant UV radiation and require UV-blocking filters to prevent UV-induced degradation of lamp fixture components and fading of dyed items illuminated by the lamp. Exposure to HID lamps operating with faulty or absent UV-blocking filters causes injury to humans and animals, such as sunburn and arc eye. Many HID lamps are designed to quickly extinguish if their outer UV-shielding glass envelope is broken.

 

[goingrey]

their outer UV-shielding glass envelope is broken.

So this is why they do not emit UV.

What stays inside the bulb doesn't help the plants.

 

[CannaT]

 

[CannaT]

Little detailed information is being provided by manufacturers on the exact amount of UVA, UVB, and UVC radiation emitted by their lamps. Anecdotal sources from the Internet have provided some information. For example, one 315 W Ceramic Metal Halide (CMH) lamp is specified as producing 3.45 mW/cm² of UVA, 0.01 mW/cm² of UVB, and 0.03 mW/cm² of UVC. The latter irradiance value is equivalent to 0.3 W/m² and according to the NIOSH/ACGIH limits of exposure this would limit the time of exposure to 100 seconds. Obviously there is a potential hazard for any lamp that emits this level of UVC radiation and growers need to be made aware of the dangers.

Why dont producers of sweets provide infos about sugar and potential risk ???
Or oil industry about heavy metals...

You are funny man go to sleep I ddint sleep for 2 days and im drinikimg and still my brain works better than yours.

 

[goingrey]

Little detailed information is being provided by manufacturers on the exact amount of UVA, UVB, and UVC radiation emitted by their lamps. Anecdotal sources from the Internet have provided some information. For example, one 315 W Ceramic Metal Halide (CMH) lamp is specified as producing 3.45 mW/cm² of UVA, 0.01 mW/cm² of UVB, and 0.03 mW/cm² of UVC. The latter irradiance value is equivalent to 0.3 W/m² and according to the NIOSH/ACGIH limits of exposure this would limit the time of exposure to 100 seconds. Obviously there is a potential hazard for any lamp that emits this level of UVC radiation and growers need to be made aware of the dangers.

Why dont producers of sweets provide infos about sugar and potential risk ???
Or oil industry about heavy metals...

You are funny man go to sleep I ddint sleep for 2 days and im drinikimg and still my brain works better than yours.

That is interesting. But he is quoting "anecdotal internet sources" (that he doesn't even provide), and a little bit further along says he wasn't able to measure it himself from the Hortilux bulb. The second attachment is talking about damaged bulbs.. ok, maybe they emit UV but surely you aren't suggesting people run damaged bulbs? And the third is.. ChatGPT.. incredible tech but not perfected yet, values bro science as much as real.

 

[CannaT]

That is interesting. But he is quoting "anecdotal internet sources" (that he doesn't even provide), and a little bit further along says he wasn't able to measure it himself from the Hortilux bulb. The second attachment is talking about damaged bulbs.. ok, maybe they emit UV but surely you aren't suggesting people run damaged bulbs? And the third is.. ChatGPT.. incredible tech but not perfected yet, values bro science as much as real.

in the visible region with different spectral distributions. Results show that HPM emits the largest amount of UVA compared with MH and HPS lamps. While HPS emit the lowest amount with moderate amount was from MH lamp. The UVA level hazards for each lamp are calculated ac cording to CIE recommendation, and the safety distance was obtained from the measurement of the absolute irra diance emission of UVA. Hence, it is highly recommended to use these lamps only in outdoor, as they may be lie in the range of the CIE hazard condition if used indoor. The minimum safe limit distance according to Table 1 must be taken into consideration.

5 Discussion

The absolute irradiance measurements of UVA region as well as the relative spectral power distribution of three outdoor lighting lamps from OSRAM are carried out. Due to different content material inside the are tube for each type of lamps, the relative spectral power distri- butions of the three lamps are completely different (see Fig. 6). The absolute irradiance measurements at 50 em in W/m in UVA region from each lamp are obtained, using UVA standard radiometer with maximum respon sivity at 365 nm (see Fig. 7). It clarify that HPM emits the largest amount of UVA compared with MH and HPS lamps. While HPS emit the lowest amount with moder- ate amount was from MH lamp. On the other hand, the safety distance required to use these lamps are calculated according to the CIE recommendation of hazard levels in 2012 UVA region (see Tab. 1). It is noticed that the safety dis tance is proportional with the amount of UVA emission. The measurements were performed under control of en- vironmental conditions and good regulation of electrical power. The accompanied uncertainty in the absolute irra- diance measurements is +2.56% (see Tab. 2).

References

1. C. De Cusatis, Handbook of Applied Photometry (Optical Society of America, Poughkeepsie, New York, 1994)

2. F. Grum, R. Becherer, Optical Radiation Measurements

(Academic Press, Radiometry, 1979), Vol. 11 3. Lighting Associates, Inc, http://www.lightingassociates.org

4. E.EM. El-moghazy, A technical study of the develop ment of working standard lamps for lighting applications, Doctoral thesis, College of Woman, Ein Shames university,

5. Photobiological safety of lamps and lamp systems, stan dard CIE S 009/E (2002)

6. P. Sharma, V.K. Jaiswal, H.C. Kandpal, Ultraviolet radi- ation emitted by compact fluorescence lamps, J. Metrol.

Sor. India (MAPAN) 24, 183-191 (2009) 7. A. Abd-Elmageed, Detector-based traceability chain for

spectral irradiance using tunable laser based facility at PTB, Doctoral thesis, Braunschweig University, Germany, 2011 8. IES Guide to Lamp Seasoning, J. Illuminating Engineering

society, IES LM-54-12 (2012) 9. S.M. Reda, A.-E.A. Abd-Elmageed, On the use of spec- tral lamp lines in the Monochromator Calibration, Trends in Advanced Science and Engineering, TASE 4, 22-25

6 Conclusion

Three different types of lamps commonly used in the outdoor lighting from OSRAM are studied to assess their wanted output in the UVA region. These lamps are designed mainly to emit their power in the visible region. (2012) Practically, they emit the majority of their energy in the visible region but part of their energy is emitted in the UVA region. A set up based on single monochromator and (1993) UVA standard radiometer for relative spectral power dis tribution and absolute irradiance measurements are used, respectively. It is found that each of the three lamps has its own characteristics, and they emit most of their spectrums

 

[CannaT]

View attachment 18882502


View attachment 18882503
in the visible region with different spectral distributions. Results show that HPM emits the largest amount of UVA compared with MH and HPS lamps. While HPS emit the lowest amount with moderate amount was from MH lamp. The UVA level hazards for each lamp are calculated ac cording to CIE recommendation, and the safety distance was obtained from the measurement of the absolute irra diance emission of UVA. Hence, it is highly recommended to use these lamps only in outdoor, as they may be lie in the range of the CIE hazard condition if used indoor. The minimum safe limit distance according to Table 1 must be taken into consideration.

5 Discussion

The absolute irradiance measurements of UVA region as well as the relative spectral power distribution of three outdoor lighting lamps from OSRAM are carried out. Due to different content material inside the are tube for each type of lamps, the relative spectral power distri- butions of the three lamps are completely different (see Fig. 6). The absolute irradiance measurements at 50 em in W/m in UVA region from each lamp are obtained, using UVA standard radiometer with maximum respon sivity at 365 nm (see Fig. 7). It clarify that HPM emits the largest amount of UVA compared with MH and HPS lamps. While HPS emit the lowest amount with moder- ate amount was from MH lamp. On the other hand, the safety distance required to use these lamps are calculated according to the CIE recommendation of hazard levels in 2012 UVA region (see Tab. 1). It is noticed that the safety dis tance is proportional with the amount of UVA emission. The measurements were performed under control of en- vironmental conditions and good regulation of electrical power. The accompanied uncertainty in the absolute irra- diance measurements is +2.56% (see Tab. 2).

References

1. C. De Cusatis, Handbook of Applied Photometry (Optical Society of America, Poughkeepsie, New York, 1994)

2. F. Grum, R. Becherer, Optical Radiation Measurements

(Academic Press, Radiometry, 1979), Vol. 11 3. Lighting Associates, Inc, http://www.lightingassociates.org

4. E.EM. El-moghazy, A technical study of the develop ment of working standard lamps for lighting applications, Doctoral thesis, College of Woman, Ein Shames university,

5. Photobiological safety of lamps and lamp systems, stan dard CIE S 009/E (2002)

6. P. Sharma, V.K. Jaiswal, H.C. Kandpal, Ultraviolet radi- ation emitted by compact fluorescence lamps, J. Metrol.

Sor. India (MAPAN) 24, 183-191 (2009) 7. A. Abd-Elmageed, Detector-based traceability chain for

spectral irradiance using tunable laser based facility at PTB, Doctoral thesis, Braunschweig University, Germany, 2011 8. IES Guide to Lamp Seasoning, J. Illuminating Engineering

society, IES LM-54-12 (2012) 9. S.M. Reda, A.-E.A. Abd-Elmageed, On the use of spec- tral lamp lines in the Monochromator Calibration, Trends in Advanced Science and Engineering, TASE 4, 22-25

6 Conclusion

Three different types of lamps commonly used in the outdoor lighting from OSRAM are studied to assess their wanted output in the UVA region. These lamps are designed mainly to emit their power in the visible region. (2012) Practically, they emit the majority of their energy in the visible region but part of their energy is emitted in the UVA region. A set up based on single monochromator and (1993) UVA standard radiometer for relative spectral power dis tribution and absolute irradiance measurements are used, respectively. It is found that each of the three lamps has its own characteristics, and they emit most of their spectrums

Sience mean nothing if you dont have expirience but anyway you are good guy goinggray.
One of guys I like here.

 

[goingrey]

View attachment 18882502


View attachment 18882503
in the visible region with different spectral distributions. Results show that HPM emits the largest amount of UVA compared with MH and HPS lamps. While HPS emit the lowest amount with moderate amount was from MH lamp. The UVA level hazards for each lamp are calculated ac cording to CIE recommendation, and the safety distance was obtained from the measurement of the absolute irra diance emission of UVA. Hence, it is highly recommended to use these lamps only in outdoor, as they may be lie in the range of the CIE hazard condition if used indoor. The minimum safe limit distance according to Table 1 must be taken into consideration.

5 Discussion

The absolute irradiance measurements of UVA region as well as the relative spectral power distribution of three outdoor lighting lamps from OSRAM are carried out. Due to different content material inside the are tube for each type of lamps, the relative spectral power distri- butions of the three lamps are completely different (see Fig. 6). The absolute irradiance measurements at 50 em in W/m in UVA region from each lamp are obtained, using UVA standard radiometer with maximum respon sivity at 365 nm (see Fig. 7). It clarify that HPM emits the largest amount of UVA compared with MH and HPS lamps. While HPS emit the lowest amount with moder- ate amount was from MH lamp. On the other hand, the safety distance required to use these lamps are calculated according to the CIE recommendation of hazard levels in 2012 UVA region (see Tab. 1). It is noticed that the safety dis tance is proportional with the amount of UVA emission. The measurements were performed under control of en- vironmental conditions and good regulation of electrical power. The accompanied uncertainty in the absolute irra- diance measurements is +2.56% (see Tab. 2).

References

1. C. De Cusatis, Handbook of Applied Photometry (Optical Society of America, Poughkeepsie, New York, 1994)

2. F. Grum, R. Becherer, Optical Radiation Measurements

(Academic Press, Radiometry, 1979), Vol. 11 3. Lighting Associates, Inc, http://www.lightingassociates.org

4. E.EM. El-moghazy, A technical study of the develop ment of working standard lamps for lighting applications, Doctoral thesis, College of Woman, Ein Shames university,

5. Photobiological safety of lamps and lamp systems, stan dard CIE S 009/E (2002)

6. P. Sharma, V.K. Jaiswal, H.C. Kandpal, Ultraviolet radi- ation emitted by compact fluorescence lamps, J. Metrol.

Sor. India (MAPAN) 24, 183-191 (2009) 7. A. Abd-Elmageed, Detector-based traceability chain for

spectral irradiance using tunable laser based facility at PTB, Doctoral thesis, Braunschweig University, Germany, 2011 8. IES Guide to Lamp Seasoning, J. Illuminating Engineering

society, IES LM-54-12 (2012) 9. S.M. Reda, A.-E.A. Abd-Elmageed, On the use of spec- tral lamp lines in the Monochromator Calibration, Trends in Advanced Science and Engineering, TASE 4, 22-25

6 Conclusion

Three different types of lamps commonly used in the outdoor lighting from OSRAM are studied to assess their wanted output in the UVA region. These lamps are designed mainly to emit their power in the visible region. (2012) Practically, they emit the majority of their energy in the visible region but part of their energy is emitted in the UVA region. A set up based on single monochromator and (1993) UVA standard radiometer for relative spectral power dis tribution and absolute irradiance measurements are used, respectively. It is found that each of the three lamps has its own characteristics, and they emit most of their spectrums

(C)MH do emit some UV-A (315-400nm).

It shows on the spectral charts as well:

 

[CannaT]

(C)MH do emit some UV-A (315-400nm).

It shows on the spectral charts as well:

View attachment 18882517

I think pappers above are valid science man...you get what you want...but again people like more to believe than to see.
Rarley they see something what they dont believe.

If you are all in this science and you know that Leds dont emit UV at all like I said on begining...then you will know that nothing under leds or better say without UV cant be grown to full potential.

If its not grown to full potential it cant be great or the best...mids at best.

 

[goingrey]

I think pappers above are valid science man...you get what you want...but again people like more to believe than to see.
Rarley they see something what they dont believe.

It is very difficult to "see" if a difference is caused by UV or something else like the overall difference in spectrum or other environmental differences like heat/humidity. Unless the only difference is UV, which to be fair is easily accomplished with a side by side with either an UV lamp in one tent or an UV filter in the other, but not the case in this LED vs HPS comparison.

If you are all in this science and you know that Leds dont emit UV at all like I said on begining...then you will know that nothing under leds or better say without UV cant be grown to full potential.

If its not grown to full potential it cant be great or the best...mids at best.

"Normal" diodes like the Samsung LM301H and so on do not emit UV, this is correct. But UV-specific diodes like the LG UV395 in the light I use do.

I think theoretically LEDs could be used to recreate any kind of spectrum, HPS or whatever, by combining suitably different diodes on a lamp. Maybe just not at a reasonable price or power draw with currently available diodes, defeating the purpose. But who knows what the future brings.

And if the best needs UV then HPS grown can't be the best. Better grow with MH. Or better yet HPS with a Gavita LEP 270e SUP alongside it. Or other mixed light source option. Or full plasma. Or outdoors.. And if HPS is the best in your opinion then the difference is because of something else.

 

[JKD]

Comparison of several light sources by Bugbee & Nelson. % UV etc

https://extension.usu.edu/apec/files/publications/poster/pub__6740181.pdf

 

[CannaT]

It is very difficult to "see" if a difference is caused by UV or something else like the overall difference in spectrum or other environmental differences like heat/humidity. Unless the only difference is UV, which to be fair is easily accomplished with a side by side with either an UV lamp in one tent or an UV filter in the other, but not the case in this LED vs HPS comparison.


"Normal" diodes like the Samsung LM301H and so on do not emit UV, this is correct. But UV-specific diodes like the LG UV395 in the light I use do.

I think theoretically LEDs could be used to recreate any kind of spectrum, HPS or whatever, by combining suitably different diodes on a lamp. Maybe just not at a reasonable price or power draw with currently available diodes, defeating the purpose. But who knows what the future brings.

Its all in theory ,led theory dont want to use UV cuz some scientist think that uv is bad and plant can grow only with red and blue...and if you remember first leds was like that red and blue.
I dont align with this science theory end my expirence tells me that with Leds i never smoked plant with high alchocols and other sulphur compounds...or if they are present they are present in such a small amounts they arent noticable.

I growed to many identical cuttings and HID's give superrior weed only cuz of more alchocols and sulphure compounds.

Also led plants I need to water 1 a week hids minimum 2...there to many factors in favour of Hids for plant quality...

You dont grow or have very small expirience to go in deep talk about growing with you at all.
Im talking about quality of flowers..not yild not eletricity nor money...and HIDs are supperrior and thats my expireince I put my grows here you saw it and its just small procent of what Im doing and even smaller what I have done.

I dont want to talk anymorem Im going to sleep it will be few days for shieure cuz didnt slept for 2 days...but no mather what Phillips HPS for agro
2 CMH/MH 3 LED/Fluo...thats my expireince

 

[Crooked8]

If you dont know ppm in your rez...you also dont know.
But shure there is much more improvment in your grows...looks like you are water boy in that gr. Grow in hidro and dont know amount of nutes in rez its very wierd.
I never said that good formula for npk is 0 P...but you are right...21 years of growing still dont know how to propper grow.. 2 more life and it will be fine.
Maybe some day you will know how
Give us some pictures of your plants...pictures say 1000 words.

You were very specific about P being unnecessary with no seed production. You said it twice. As far as 1000 words from pictures, if you look at my profile and my media theres over 1000 photos dating back to like 2013 or earlier of countless strains and many different grows. You have like 6 photos total of one plant…. What you dont seem to understand is this issue is new because of new equipment and a new space. If you look at my old hps grows and cmh i did not have these issues. Ive had led grows without this issue as well but this brand of light drives the plants harder than ive ever experienced. Their output and efficiency is insane. Once dialed, this grow will be the best ive ever produced in regards to quality and quantity.

 

[CannaT]

Comparison of several light sources by Bugbee & Nelson. % UV etc

https://extension.usu.edu/apec/files/publications/poster/pub__6740181.pdf

thx man maybe thats it just thst little uv for hps and cmh that make things perfect.

 

[CannaT]

You were very specific about P being unnecessary with no seed production. You said it twice. As far as 1000 words from pictures, if you look at my profile and my media theres over 1000 photos dating back to like 2013 or earlier of countless strains and many different grows. You have like 6 photos total of one plant…. What you dont seem to understand is this issue is new because of new equipment and a new space. If you look at my old hps grows and cmh i did not have these issues. Ive had led grows without this issue as well but this brand of light drives the plants harder than ive ever experienced. Their output and efficiency is insane. Once dialed, this grow will be the best ive ever produced in regards to quality and quantity

Find my words that I wrote NPK X-0-Y.

Issue is that I try new leds of my friend and grow under them for the first time with air cooled summer air in garage everything so improvised. And they are doing fine...
Look exactly like my HPS low N close to end and very happy.

And yes I will say again no seeds no need for high P.

Still they look like hps grown nice fading to end no dark colored leafs and plants look "to healthy" at harvest.

Still didnt find out how you grow in hydro not knowing ppm of elements in your solution.

Thats the first thing I would like to know if I grow hydroponicaly.
But thats just me im idiot in this world...some kind of minority..so probably you are right.

 

[Crooked8]

Exess of P try some feeding regime with higher N&K and lower P....they work better for me.
P is only good for seed production.

Nice setup anyway.

“P is ONLY good for seed production” is the quote im referring to. This insinuates it only has one function. Which i already went over with you. Ive had a good back and forth with you so far im not sure why you are calling yourself an idiot and getting defensive. Its all love over this way. And i have tested my solution its just been a while and ive had to alter it to led demands.

 

[Hammerhead]

Adding UVA is super easy to do. Run a mixed Spectrum LED/HID to get UVA, UVB, and UVC. I run a mixed spectrum LED/CMH with added UVA.