LED and BUD QUALITY

[snakedope]

I believe you really need some good gras to calm down...
Who is the one talking about glue and beams? Whats next - the aura of HPS?

Funny - somehow it reminds me when the first mobiles came out, the internet, Wlan, 5G ... there were always people wich did not accept it and found many excuses why it was bad.
''consider the topics we are trying to convey"

Sorry man, i dont find excuses why its bad, you find excuses why its good, so much that you go comparing us to the people who was afraid of bug 2000 you just like turning shit around dont you
but it wont matter and wont hide the facts me or hammerhead or canary are talking about, facts that are well known and issues that nobody seems to address or talk about, fearing that maybe they took the wrong path... nobody wants to be wrong
You look for infinite excuses and fixes for this tech, but you will never get it.
Its becoming ridiculous the amount of ignoring of information and opinions in this thread, always go by the author.. easy kid play

People might respond less negatively to your observations if you said that you have found HPS to produce more aromatic flowers (or whatever you mean by "GLUE") instead of saying that YOU ARE ALL GROWING HORSE SHIT!!!

Never said that, i said LED grows shit, not growers, you need to get your story straight and you are talking before reading and understanding.
I said some people here show same symptoms like my LED grow and 95% of all recent grows and smokes, never claimed the grower was shit or something.
Opinions on the matter at hand will be welcome, if you can keep up that is, instead of tryna come at me, which wont work, im just a guy in front of a screen.

 

[GoatCheese]

Fluid movement in soil is slower than in coco or hydro. Giving plants a better chance of surviving in low RH conditions. These conditions cause a closing of the stomata, but as we drop below 40% most are actually loosing control. Add to this the water demands of a higher rate of photosynthesis and leaf droop is a reported outcome.

Your room is 20-30% RH and you speak of water retention problems more than anything else.

Your room is 20-30% RH and you speak of water retention problems more than anything else.

You have seen the plants do better in the 30% months.

You blame the lights for heating the plants. However, that is the very last thing they are going to do. No light is colder. They are dry because it's dry.

What on earth are you talking about?!

My RH% is around 60%+ atm. so you're just making things up.
Maybe you shouldn’t assume so much about people’s situation when you start writing your lectures, it just makes you look silly..

I have grown plants in soil and coco side by side in low RH% and high RH% and the coco plant can stay alot closer to the cob light in both environments

Have you personally grown the same cuts or any plants side by side in coco/hydro and in soil? ...or are you just repeating stuff you have read from the internet or learned in school?

 

[GoatCheese]

How is HPS\MH light is more softer ? the beam is present in HPS\MH lights also, and is more powerful then LED

Does your hps light do this? ...those create hot spots, understand?
Not my photo. It's f-e's ...cheers bro

 

[GoatCheese]

i have problem with glue, people here are raising true concerns about this TECH and what its able to produce,
But people here still try prove that this tech is good and we are stupid or some haha

My plants are just as sticky today as they were during my hps days, so i really can’t explain your problems. I bloom my plants with DB-bin Cree CXB3590 3500K cobs..

Sticky resin varies by plants. Some plants have naturally very dry resin, while some plants are very oily like my CBD Critical Cure keeper. My Black Domina Ortega-pheno keeper has very dry resin and it will fall off in clouds if you’re too rough with the plant.

I’ve grown both plants side by side under a hps and my Cree cobs and the end result has always been the same.

 

[Snipp]

As you mentioned Resin - you can break it down to 3 main components.

Terpenes, lipids (wax) and psyc. Components as thc/cbd. As far as I know and experienced it - the sticky and flavor comes from the terps. If I remove the fat and terps I get a quite dry and non sticky crystalin extract - I suppose it's the pure thc ( here not dry yet)

What i filtered out will be used as base for ointments

 

[FletchF.Fletch]

Still Trolling.

 

[snakedope]

My plants are just as sticky today as they were during my hps days, so i really can’t explain your problems. I bloom my plants with DB-bin Cree CXB3590 3500K cobs..

Sticky resin varies by plants. Some plants have naturally very dry resin, while some plants are very oily like my CBD Critical Cure keeper. My Black Domina Ortega-pheno keeper has very dry resin and it will fall off in clouds if you’re too rough with the plant.

I’ve grown both plants side by side under a hps and my Cree cobs and the end result has always been the same.

GoatCheese you are my kind of guy after all haha good input man thank you brother
I really wish 95% of growers around here (my country not this forum) have results like you have or talking about, it eludes me why this is not the case here, need to keep investigating this further no doubt.

Hot spots of what.. 55c at diode and 30 at leaf maybe depending on height ?
my 600w HPS dosent create a hot spot like that your right, but it creates 30-40% more heat then my 750w led panel, and still wont have such side effects, outside every spot is a hot spot and plants still dont react like that.. but still after all that i still think theres some logic in what you say, i cant say that this is the cause of it for sure as i dont know myself but worth looking into.

 

[GoatCheese]

Hot spots of what.. 55c at diode and 30 at leaf maybe depending on height ?
my 600w HPS dosent create a hot spot like that your right, but it creates 30-40% more heat then my 750w led panel, and still wont have such side effects, outside every spot is a hot spot and plants still dont react like that.. but still after all that i still think theres some logic in what you say, i cant say that this is the cause of it for sure as i dont know myself but worth looking into.

Use your head awhile before you start talking back..

You are now confusing ambient temperature and the temperature of the photons themselves
..do you really think your temp. meter will detect the temperature of a photon? No it won’t. If it can’t measure a single photon do you think it will catch the temp of the photon beam?
= It’s measuring the ambient temperature of the atmospheric gasses around the leaf at most.

Photons travel at speed of light which is 1 billion 80 million km/h. = very f-ing fast. They will hit the leaf surface much, much faster than your fan will have time to cool the air around them.



Here’s a test you can do:

Take a meter that will show you Temperature and RH%. First allow it to measure the environment of your grow tent/space at canopy level. Then put it fairly close– 5cm or so - to your led bar while it’s running at 100% and keep it there till you see the temperature rise to around 40-50 C ..keep it there for several minutes if the meter happens to give you these readings instantly so this all will have proper time to work. Look what happens to the RH%
..the RH% reading on my meter went down dramatically when it hit 40c in few minutes time. Does the same thing happen at your place? If it does, then what do these high intensity photons do to the leaf tissue?

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Decided to put the loudest ignorance on ignore... sure shortened the thread.

More conversations using LED to grow cannabis is good.. Try not to make it personal for any having issues using LED.

Lots of us that used LED to flower males or reverse females are seeing issues using LED. I've had nothing but issues with male plants not producing enough pollen as CMH/HPS does every time. All reversed females would only partially reverse with no pollen produced. It's not just me. I talked to Skunkva and James Loud they also are having the same issue using LED. For now, I went back to using CMH/HPS to flower males or reverse females.. JL uses HPS 1st until the plants reverse then moves them to LED. He thinks LED doesn't have enough red for our needs. It is a documented issue..

(Edit: @Hammerhead ignore this post, you obviously have much more experience. I'm sure mt results would have been much better with HID. Ty for posting your thoughts.
@Everyone Else The following is me thinking I know what I'm talking about. lol)
Dunno what lights you're using, but Mars Hydro lights do not have this issue. Chimera's "Frankies' Church" and the Bekka Valley Lebanese produced plenty of pollen under a TSW-2000. My first reversal of Tsue was under screw in LED's (which I'm still using years later) and I collected almost 1/8 cup of pollen from that tiny plant. lol The pollen from 2013 still works decently enough, even though it's been through a few thaws. I just used some a few weeks ago on those same Frankie's Church mums.

I also have near 100% viability of the Lerch beans created in that accidental cross. Berries and cream flavors mostly.... YUM!

(Edit: I also have a handful of EO99 beans, wonderful quality seeds formed under the same TSW-2000 from Mars Hydro)

 

[Hammerhead]

I used a Mars 6500. I do have growers choice and HLG as well. We all used different vendor's LEDs. Who makes them is not the issue. IT looks like you are miss interpreting my posts.. The plants do have some male flowers but nowhere near the same as under HPS/CMH. Plants should fully reverse as they do under HPS/CMH BUT they do not. With plants only producing sporadic male flowers they arent usble.

 

[delta9nxs]

hey hammerhead, as you may know i am not a breeder. i am a grower. but when i worked for the 10k sq ft hemp flower facility they asked me to reverse one strain, make pollen from it, then pollinate another strain.

the room was 650 sq ft and was full of plants. i used silver thiosulphate and reversed the entire room and made a huge amount of pollen. male flowers galore.

i then grew another strain in the same room and made a bunch of seeds which were successfully used for outdoor planting the next season.

my first attempt and using led lights. by the way i used douglas curtis's formula. thank you doug!

but, these lights were ordered to my specs from china.

they were 18 watt screw-in, 4000k color temp, 240 volt.

they included significant far-red.

i put a total of 720 watts over each 5x5.

i also use screw-in leds in my home lights. these are 50/50 2700k and 5000k. 120 bulbs total for 1680 watts.

these bulbs also have significant far-red.

i'm starting to get the idea that maybe these manufactured grow lights don't have enough far-red.

they were all but devoid of far-red until dr bugbee's you tube video "far-red, the forgotten photon". then after that came out everyone starts touting far-red and offering options.

household type bulbs are full spectrum and include some uv and far-red already.

dr bugbee warns against excessive far-red for high light shade avoiding plants as it can cause elongation but says you need some.

he says that a higher level for shade tolerant plants significantly contributed to photosynthesis.

here are some pics of the bulbs from china and some purple mesa cbd. this tested at 18% cbd and was terp heavy.

followed by some pics of my flowering thc plants at one week under 1500 umols of flow. healthy as fuck. no damage.

most of the manufactured grow lights advertise that they achieve 1500 umols but don't mention the distance they do it at. deep into their sites you usually can find that the distance is in the 6" range.

i built my extremely powerful home light just to experiment with how much light the cannabis plant can use and withstand without damage.

my light produces 1500 umols at 26" and 1000 umols at 36".

i think that with that height you get superior beam overlap and diffusion.

maybe having to put weak lights right down on the plant to get the light flow you need we are creating hot spots and/or blind spots.

you don't need more cal-mag with leds, you need more magnesium. i think that's because leds drive photosynthesis more efficiently than hps because the heat from the hps was suppressing growth at the same time it powered growth.

magnesium is the central molecule in all chlorophyll types. without adequate mag under high-intensity light the leaf is not in full production

the led manufacturers are trying to compete in a tough market so they are selling units based on price points and not efficacy.

first are the purple mesa with chinese screw-ins. each row is 60' long and 5' wide. right at harvest. a beautiful cbd plant.

then my current grow at home under the 1680 watt monster getting 1500 umols for 8 hours or 43.2 moles per diurnal period.

unless you are delivering at least 40 moles per period you are not growing to full potential. cannabis is a high-light plant.

 

[Snipp]

hey hammerhead, as you may know i am not a breeder. i am a grower. but when i worked for the 10k sq ft hemp flower facility they asked me to reverse one strain, make pollen from it, then pollinate another strain.

the room was 650 sq ft and was full of plants. i used silver thiosulphate and reversed the entire room and made a huge amount of pollen. male flowers galore.

i then grew another strain in the same room and made a bunch of seeds which were successfully used for outdoor planting the next season.

my first attempt and using led lights. by the way i used douglas curtis's formula. thank you doug!

but, these lights were ordered to my specs from china.

they were 18 watt screw-in, 4000k color temp, 240 volt.

they included significant far-red.

i put a total of 720 watts over each 5x5.

i also use screw-in leds in my home lights. these are 50/50 2700k and 5000k. 120 bulbs total for 1680 watts.

these bulbs also have significant far-red.

i'm starting to get the idea that maybe these manufactured grow lights don't have enough far-red.

they were all but devoid of far-red until dr bugbee's you tube video "far-red, the forgotten photon". then after that came out everyone starts touting far-red and offering options.

household type bulbs are full spectrum and include some uv and far-red already.

dr bugbee warns against excessive far-red for high light shade avoiding plants as it can cause elongation but says you need some.

he says that a higher level for shade tolerant plants significantly contributed to photosynthesis.

here are some pics of the bulbs from china and some purple mesa cbd. this tested at 18% cbd and was terp heavy.

followed by some pics of my flowering thc plants at one week under 1500 umols of flow. healthy as fuck. no damage.

most of the manufactured grow lights advertise that they achieve 1500 umols but don't mention the distance they do it at. deep into their sites you usually can find that the distance is in the 6" range.

i built my extremely powerful home light just to experiment with how much light the cannabis plant can use and withstand without damage.

my light produces 1500 umols at 26" and 1000 umols at 36".

i think that with that height you get superior beam overlap and diffusion.

maybe having to put weak lights right down on the plant to get the light flow you need we are creating hot spots and/or blind spots.

you don't need more cal-mag with leds, you need more magnesium. i think that's because leds drive photosynthesis more efficiently than hps because the heat from the hps was suppressing growth at the same time it powered growth.

magnesium is the central molecule in all chlorophyll types. without adequate mag under high-intensity light the leaf is not in full production

the led manufacturers are trying to compete in a tough market so they are selling units based on price points and not efficacy.

first are the purple mesa with chinese screw-ins. each row is 60' long and 5' wide. right at harvest. a beautiful cbd plant.

then my current grow at home under the 1680 watt monster getting 1500 umols for 8 hours or 43.2 moles per diurnal period.

unless you are delivering at least 40 moles per period you are not growing to full potential. cannabis is a high-light plant.

Nice to hear a professional opinion
Here my measurements ( by a simple tool)


Ps- impressive lights and plants you have

 

[snakedope]

hey hammerhead, as you may know i am not a breeder. i am a grower. but when i worked for the 10k sq ft hemp flower facility they asked me to reverse one strain, make pollen from it, then pollinate another strain.

the room was 650 sq ft and was full of plants. i used silver thiosulphate and reversed the entire room and made a huge amount of pollen. male flowers galore.

i then grew another strain in the same room and made a bunch of seeds which were successfully used for outdoor planting the next season.

my first attempt and using led lights. by the way i used douglas curtis's formula. thank you doug!

but, these lights were ordered to my specs from china.

they were 18 watt screw-in, 4000k color temp, 240 volt.

they included significant far-red.

i put a total of 720 watts over each 5x5.

i also use screw-in leds in my home lights. these are 50/50 2700k and 5000k. 120 bulbs total for 1680 watts.

these bulbs also have significant far-red.

i'm starting to get the idea that maybe these manufactured grow lights don't have enough far-red.

they were all but devoid of far-red until dr bugbee's you tube video "far-red, the forgotten photon". then after that came out everyone starts touting far-red and offering options.

household type bulbs are full spectrum and include some uv and far-red already.

dr bugbee warns against excessive far-red for high light shade avoiding plants as it can cause elongation but says you need some.

he says that a higher level for shade tolerant plants significantly contributed to photosynthesis.

here are some pics of the bulbs from china and some purple mesa cbd. this tested at 18% cbd and was terp heavy.

followed by some pics of my flowering thc plants at one week under 1500 umols of flow. healthy as fuck. no damage.

most of the manufactured grow lights advertise that they achieve 1500 umols but don't mention the distance they do it at. deep into their sites you usually can find that the distance is in the 6" range.

i built my extremely powerful home light just to experiment with how much light the cannabis plant can use and withstand without damage.

my light produces 1500 umols at 26" and 1000 umols at 36".

i think that with that height you get superior beam overlap and diffusion.

maybe having to put weak lights right down on the plant to get the light flow you need we are creating hot spots and/or blind spots.

you don't need more cal-mag with leds, you need more magnesium. i think that's because leds drive photosynthesis more efficiently than hps because the heat from the hps was suppressing growth at the same time it powered growth.

magnesium is the central molecule in all chlorophyll types. without adequate mag under high-intensity light the leaf is not in full production

the led manufacturers are trying to compete in a tough market so they are selling units based on price points and not efficacy.

first are the purple mesa with chinese screw-ins. each row is 60' long and 5' wide. right at harvest. a beautiful cbd plant.

then my current grow at home under the 1680 watt monster getting 1500 umols for 8 hours or 43.2 moles per diurnal period.

unless you are delivering at least 40 moles per period you are not growing to full potential. cannabis is a high-light plant.

1500 umols at 26" and 1000 umols at 36", which LED do you use ? what power diodes ?
I havent seen LED that can make those numbers in those heights...

You are right about the height mfg test in, mostly its 6-12 inch height.
my 750w panel is rated 1400 ppfd at 8 inch, it only gets worse from there as you go up
i dont think you see 1500 ppfd at 26 under HIDs center point, so under LED those numbers a lil off but would love to hear about those diodes.

 

[delta9nxs]

thank you! i have an old spectrum and a 6 mos old apogee. they are decent handheld reference tools but not really good enough for research.

it's interesting to note that dr bugbee, who owns apogee meters, uses licor gear when doing peer-reviewed research.

 

[xet]

All that Talent wasted. He should be zooming in on pictures of Ill people so he can tell the Doctors how to cure Cancer.

The public really is stuck in the past.

 

[xet]

calcium:boron ratio

Fun read but the relationship is calcium:boron:strontium.

 

[delta9nxs]

here it is in all its resplendent glory! the Beast from Walmart!

the 240 volt bulbs from china used cree diodes.

i don't know who walmart uses but they are indestructible with the diffusers off. i have 3000 120v bulbs. most used in previous grows.

i looked at all the commercial designs and they seem to follow a format. and that is a foldable aluminum frame with strips of specific diodes. for a long time they weren't offering far-red at all.

my light has 3680 diodes aimed all over the place. it's hard to even imagine the beam overlap of this thing.

the light has two 60 bulb circuits. one inner group and one outer ring. it's a form of dimmer.

snakedope, take a look at the new fohse light. it's a monster but 2000 usd.

the point i'm getting at is that we need higher power lights to grow the best quality. and some, but i don't know how much, far-red.

 

[snakedope]

Its not so hard, it very wide spread like u said, both the set up and the the beam overlap, but what is the rated power of each diode you are using ? what mfg ? lm output ?

 

[Alogeno]

here it is in all its resplendent glory! the Beast from Walmart!

the 240 volt bulbs from china used cree diodes.

i don't know who walmart uses but they are indestructible with the diffusers off. i have 3000 120v bulbs. most used in previous grows.

i looked at all the commercial designs and they seem to follow a format. and that is a foldable aluminum frame with strips of specific diodes. for a long time they weren't offering far-red at all.

my light has 3680 diodes aimed all over the place. it's hard to even imagine the beam overlap of this thing.

the light has two 60 bulb circuits. one inner group and one outer ring. it's a form of dimmer.

snakedope, take a look at the new fohse light. it's a monster but 2000 usd.

the point i'm getting at is that we need higher power lights to grow the best quality. and some, but i don't know how much, far-red.

It is good to know that you are not alone in your own madness!

Giardino E27 2022 - 2023 - 2024

Salve a tutti, torno dopo tanto tempo a proporvi qualcosa di verde, sperando che la cosa sia gradita. Non c'è un vero inizio di ciclo, le piante ci sono già come più o meno ci sono sempre state ma da qualche parte bisogna pur partire. Il setup: In tutto ci sono disponibili tre vani, due...

www.icmag.com

Unfortunately it is in Italian, but there are many photos.

 

[Hammerhead]

hey hammerhead, as you may know i am not a breeder. i am a grower. but when i worked for the 10k sq ft hemp flower facility they asked me to reverse one strain, make pollen from it, then pollinate another strain.

the room was 650 sq ft and was full of plants. i used silver thiosulphate and reversed the entire room and made a huge amount of pollen. male flowers galore.

i then grew another strain in the same room and made a bunch of seeds which were successfully used for outdoor planting the next season.

my first attempt and using led lights. by the way i used douglas curtis's formula. thank you doug!

but, these lights were ordered to my specs from china.

they were 18 watt screw-in, 4000k color temp, 240 volt.

they included significant far-red.

i put a total of 720 watts over each 5x5.

i also use screw-in leds in my home lights. these are 50/50 2700k and 5000k. 120 bulbs total for 1680 watts.

these bulbs also have significant far-red.

i'm starting to get the idea that maybe these manufactured grow lights don't have enough far-red.

they were all but devoid of far-red until dr bugbee's you tube video "far-red, the forgotten photon". then after that came out everyone starts touting far-red and offering options.

household type bulbs are full spectrum and include some uv and far-red already.

dr bugbee warns against excessive far-red for high light shade avoiding plants as it can cause elongation but says you need some.

he says that a higher level for shade tolerant plants significantly contributed to photosynthesis.

here are some pics of the bulbs from china and some purple mesa cbd. this tested at 18% cbd and was terp heavy.

followed by some pics of my flowering thc plants at one week under 1500 umols of flow. healthy as fuck. no damage.

most of the manufactured grow lights advertise that they achieve 1500 umols but don't mention the distance they do it at. deep into their sites you usually can find that the distance is in the 6" range.

i built my extremely powerful home light just to experiment with how much light the cannabis plant can use and withstand without damage.

my light produces 1500 umols at 26" and 1000 umols at 36".

i think that with that height you get superior beam overlap and diffusion.

maybe having to put weak lights right down on the plant to get the light flow you need we are creating hot spots and/or blind spots.

you don't need more cal-mag with leds, you need more magnesium. i think that's because leds drive photosynthesis more efficiently than hps because the heat from the hps was suppressing growth at the same time it powered growth.

magnesium is the central molecule in all chlorophyll types. without adequate mag under high-intensity light the leaf is not in full production

the led manufacturers are trying to compete in a tough market so they are selling units based on price points and not efficacy.

first are the purple mesa with chinese screw-ins. each row is 60' long and 5' wide. right at harvest. a beautiful cbd plant.

then my current grow at home under the 1680 watt monster getting 1500 umols for 8 hours or 43.2 moles per diurnal period.

unless you are delivering at least 40 moles per period you are not growing to full potential. cannabis is a high-light plant.

Use the @ when tagging someone or we won't see your post. I have no clue who is or isn't making seeds anymore. There are lots of people that don't post on these forums. Lots of people will get different results with no clear reason why. I had to go looking and found others were having the same problem. Doesn't matter if you or someone else didn't. There are plenty of others that did. Making fem pollen is not hard I've been doing it for a long time. Ive been growing and making seeds going back to the 70's. So knowledge and growing experience is not the problem lol we know how to grow well. Im sure all of us that had this problem wished it worked the same as other lights but it didn't. The biggest problem I see is if everyone doesn't have the same problem people think those that did it's imagined or BS lol.. I can't say anything more about it as I was not able to fix it nor were the other guys I mentioned. We all had to go back to using HPS/CMH. I'll keep using CMH to make my pollen.