LED and BUD QUALITY

[Cerathule]

I think what they're saying is the they don't like opening PDFs because they can be programmed to discreetly report back to the original author with information about the reader any time they're opened.

I can guarantee you this file is safe. You actually see it in the screenshot. If NetLimiter would record any novel connection I'd kill it and delete that file right immediately.

Anyway, you can just put the filename in GoogleScholar and then read it online.

 

[beta]

You cannot guarantee that any PDF is safe. The phone home feature is considered a feature so it's not like your antivirus or antimalware app would let you know.

I'm not trying to say the PDF you're sharing is doing this, I'm just explaining what's possible.

 

[Ca++]

It's 100% more likely than me saying green light kills cannabis. As one is fact, and the other fiction.

 

[Cerathule]

It's 100% more likely than me saying green light kills cannabis. As one is fact, and the other fiction.

Pot plants die under green monochrome light,

Isn't this what you told me back then here

Infra-Red Vs. No Infra-Red Who's Done Side by Side Testing w/Same Clones?

This is it's spectrum so this is what I would consider to be the best spectrum for best quality, isn't it? I wonder how far the UVA stretches down?

www.icmag.com

Not that I'm a fan or supporter of monochromatic light at all (it doesn't sufficiently satisfy plant receptor responses IMO), but green is actually rather "soft" or "gentle" to a leaf - as it takes many incidents until it is absorbed. So it basically reaches all chloroplasts, even deep down in the mesophyll and at both adaxial and abaxial side of the leaf. At low PPFD it's not good to drive photosynthesis as it is deflected somewhat at a higher rate than blue or red, so it's no bueno in the early stages of a grow (seedlings, or plants that don't grow much of a dense canopy). But later on it will triumph over both blue and red in terms of carbon gain (when the adaxial chloroplasts are light saturated by red/blue) and is therefore a beneficial complementation. And with some plants or setups at some point even the only the last remaining alternative to go (with farred), e.g. once a lettuce head grew big in size no blue or red will make it right into the head.

You cannot guarantee that any PDF is safe. The phone home feature is considered a feature so it's not like your antivirus or antimalware app would let you know.

I'm not trying to say the PDF you're sharing is doing this, I'm just explaining what's possible.

NetLimiter is a firewall where I can control any connection done by my PC. If any software, or process, attempts to make a connection I see it, can kill it, limit it, and it's logged so I do not always have to watch it. It even tells me where it connects and a huge number of other useful information. The home phone feature you refer is really easy way to spot if that would be the case. I can basically dictate to have the whole bandwith not take more than 1byte per second, so the connection is still there, but no matter who attempts to get anything through will fail. But the attempt will be logged. And if software does things I don't like, it will get shred.

Detecting and preventing 'phone home' behavior in PDF files

I have received several PDF documents via email from someone I do not trust. I need to read the documents and respond to them. They are not encrypted. I want to make sure the documents are compl...

security.stackexchange.com

That's a simple www-connection. A professional system hacker would be way more difficult, rather next to impossible to control (if the person really knows what he or she is doing.)


This is what Ca++ told me last time when I uploaded a study (actually a popular review) on green light utilization by landplants:

I can't see your attachment, because it's a security risk. It's a pdf hosted where? If you offer the name of a paper, or a link that can be seen, that's okay.

The file-name is the name of the study so anyone who is in doubt about its integrity could just type that name to whatever search engine you prefer and then take that study from a portal of your choice.

 

[greyfader]

25 watt tungsten incandesent

 

[Cerathule]

The problem here is that most of the radiation isn't PAR nor ePAR but "radiant heat". Which may be better than conductive heat (speculative on my part here, just observing from growing when I'd use HIDs or CFL + incandescants).

Now the sun contains also a boatload of these wavelengths:

Now plants had to develop leaves which are not as much affected by the some of the IR as a means to decrease transpiration, so they have to do less cooling and increase their water use efficiency. You find some of this explained in the study. (They use some of the FR up to 780nm to drive PSI).

Does a leaf absorb radiation in the near infrared (780–900 nm) region? A new approach to quantifying optical reflection, absorption and transmission of leaves.

Conclusions
The results presentedabovedemonstratethat a healthy
leaf does not absorb significantly in the 780–900 nm
region; the error incurred by ignoring the absorptance
of a leaf in this region is well within the experimental
error (around 1%) associated with measurements of
transmittance. If one examines the shapes of reflec-
tion and transmission spectra, including the spectra
recorded in the past, and finds no structure what-
soever (apart from random fluctuations), one should
correct the measured transmittance in the manner de-
scribedhere. Evenwith a particularlythickleaf, which
contained enough water to give rise to a signal distin-
guishable from noise, the absorptance contributed by
water was found to be much smaller than 1%.
We conclude by drawing attention to two prac-
tical implicationsof ourprincipalfinding. First, earlier
calculations of the scattering and absorption coeffi-
cients of leaves must now be revised since they are
based on a value of R ∞ (λ 0 ) which is not close to
unity. Secondly, since the residual absorptance of a
healthy leaf is negligibly small, spectral diagnosis of
various damages to plants, which manifest themselves
in browning, necrosis and a rise in absorptance in the
800–900 nm region (Tanner and Eller 1986; Merzlyak
et al. 1997; Roberts et al. 1998), can be detected with
more ease and greater confidence when one is dealing
with spectra which have been properly corrected.

 

[Cerathule]

Here's a small .gif that I recorded to show how a 70 watts halogen-incandescant lamp causes a shade-avoid-syndrome in healthly little vegging Cannabis plants which are under a 85W 7200k CFL:

I don't know if that is working here at this site, but if it is, each frame is +1 day, so you see how extreme the effect is in very little time (the halogens output is strongly reflected and directed at them).
I think you can make out how the leaves start praying, internodes get longer and the sideshoots are neglected. What you don't see is how this syndrome causes roots to be neglected, and there are some other internal physiological changes accompanyied with this as well...

 

[Mars Hydro Led]

View attachment 18814650 View attachment 18814651
The problem here is that most of the radiation isn't PAR nor ePAR but "radiant heat". Which may be better than conductive heat (speculative on my part here, just observing from growing when I'd use HIDs or CFL + incandescants).

Now the sun contains also a boatload of these wavelengths:
View attachment 18814655
Now plants had to develop leaves which are not as much affected by the some of the IR as a means to decrease transpiration, so they have to do less cooling and increase their water use efficiency. You find some of this explained in the study. (They use some of the FR up to 780nm to drive PSI).

Does a leaf absorb radiation in the near infrared (780–900 nm) region? A new approach to quantifying optical reflection, absorption and transmission of leaves.

Conclusions
The results presentedabovedemonstratethat a healthy
leaf does not absorb significantly in the 780–900 nm
region; the error incurred by ignoring the absorptance
of a leaf in this region is well within the experimental
error (around 1%) associated with measurements of
transmittance. If one examines the shapes of reflec-
tion and transmission spectra, including the spectra
recorded in the past, and finds no structure what-
soever (apart from random fluctuations), one should
correct the measured transmittance in the manner de-
scribedhere. Evenwith a particularlythickleaf, which
contained enough water to give rise to a signal distin-
guishable from noise, the absorptance contributed by
water was found to be much smaller than 1%.
We conclude by drawing attention to two prac-
tical implicationsof ourprincipalfinding. First, earlier
calculations of the scattering and absorption coeffi-
cients of leaves must now be revised since they are
based on a value of R ∞ (λ 0 ) which is not close to
unity. Secondly, since the residual absorptance of a
healthy leaf is negligibly small, spectral diagnosis of
various damages to plants, which manifest themselves
in browning, necrosis and a rise in absorptance in the
800–900 nm region (Tanner and Eller 1986; Merzlyak
et al. 1997; Roberts et al. 1998), can be detected with
more ease and greater confidence when one is dealing
with spectra which have been properly corrected.

this is very informative, thanks for sharing it

 

[Cerathule]

So I just ran over this

Defining the Far-red Limit of Photosystem I: The Primary Charge Separation is Functional to 840 nm

According to this study, the Photosystem I core in plants can still utilize photons up to 840nm for its photochemistry. What they recorded is very very very low, but it's there. The signal is not 0, which means, an 840nm photon got encaptured and it did drive the buildup of "sugar".

If that still holds true in a HPS light scenario then the excessive HPS IR peak at 840nm

(it's a HPS_solid vs Plasma_dotted SPD)

may generate some plant biomass. They also write that PSII has also been observed to be driven up to 800nm...

This just adds more useable photons that are outside of the PAR (also extended PAR) PPFD measuring scope of most - if not all - studies that used quantummeters to set an "equal" stage of light distribution in their setups. This may have some ramifications on the correct evaluation of "HPS vs LED" studies that tested dry harvest mass and normalized the setup with just a PAR or ePAR quantummeter.... (giving an advantage to HPS)

 

[Ca++]

You can't expect that 840 spike from any other HPS. Though many do have spikes in that region.

You can't grow our plants on just green. Where are you going with this.
Here is a green light diary https://www.icmag.com/threads/green-diarrhe.358690/
Saying green light kills them, is very different to saying they can't grow on monochrome green.

We always have the same conversation. It's about interpretation.

 

[greyfader]

.here's one showing a typical warm white led superimposed with a tungsten incandescent.

i found them both on the same site using the same graph.

 

[JumpinJimmy]

No need to talk and bring science into what normal eyes can see and prove alone

LED Flower:
View attachment 18737720

HPS Flower:
View attachment 18737721

View attachment 18737722

I guess a lot of people just like to smoke trichome stalkes.. oh well.

Bro you’re really weird. Lol. Ran hps for 7 years and now running led for 2 years. I’ve never seen led trichome that don’t have heads. Never seen just stalks. In fact, the picture you provided are the only trichomes I’ve ever seen on here that was just stalks. It’s a YOU problem. Not led. Quality is great. Everyone enjoys it just as they enjoyed it under hps. Terpenes are at a higher level actually with the led bud as well.

 

[Crooked8]

Bro you’re really weird. Lol. Ran hps for 7 years and now running led for 2 years. I’ve never seen led trichome that don’t have heads. Never seen just stalks. In fact, the picture you provided are the only trichomes I’ve ever seen on here that was just stalks. It’s a YOU problem. Not led. Quality is great. Everyone enjoys it just as they enjoyed it under hps. Terpenes are at a higher level actually with the led bud as well.

This is something he preaches regularly eh @snakedope ?

 

[exoticrobotic]

the picture you provided are the only trichomes I’ve ever seen on here that was just stalks. It’s a YOU problem. Not led. Quality is great. Everyone enjoys it just as they enjoyed it under hps. Terpenes are at a higher level actually with the led bud as well.

Joined 40 minutes ago and jumpin straight in eh jimmy???

To say everyone enjoys led bud the same as hps is misleading.

If you have been smoking Cannabis for 35 years you can tell a large difference with led bud and it aint good!

If you been smoking for a few years, less than 10, you are actually quite unlikely ever to have tried hps bud.

Whose got a light spectrum analyser?

 

[Corpselover Fat]

Joined 40 minutes ago and jumpin straight in eh jimmy???

To say everyone enjoys led bud the same as hps is misleading.

If you have been smoking Cannabis for 35 years you can tell a large difference with led bud and it aint good!

If you been smoking for a few years, less than 10, you are actually quite unlikely ever to have tried hps bud.

Whose got a light spectrum analyser?

I see. I have only partook in cannabis consumption for a quarter of a century so I do not have enough experience.

 

[Crooked8]

Joined 40 minutes ago and jumpin straight in eh jimmy???

To say everyone enjoys led bud the same as hps is misleading.

If you have been smoking Cannabis for 35 years you can tell a large difference with led bud and it aint good!

If you been smoking for a few years, less than 10, you are actually quite unlikely ever to have tried hps bud.

Whose got a light spectrum analyser?

Been growing for 21 years. It is my full time career. I grew at large and small scale with hps. I converted to Led and find no loss in quality whatsoever, its actually the opposite. If you dont believe me feel free to look at the 10+ years of media ive contributed here.

 

[exoticrobotic]

converted to Led and find no loss in quality whatsoever, its actually the opposite.

I'm very glad they're doing it for you.

Don't get me wrong, led bud gets me high i just find it lacking something in the high department that i have become accustomed to over the years.

I end up chain smoking it. Even the concentrates dont satisfy.

But that's just my experience...

 

[Corpselover Fat]

But that's just my experience...

Exactly.

 

[exoticrobotic]

Exactly.

Literally.

 

[Corpselover Fat]

Literally.

Now maybe don't go saying LED bud can't be good.