Do what we did in Canada and have a blind grow off. Everyone gets the same clone "super silver haze" then the buds are judged blindly. Last time this was done the winning bud was grown hydroponically using rockwool under HID lighting pissing off the LED and Organic crowds.
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LED and BUD QUALITY
- Thread starter Tropical Sun
- Start date
That's the proper way to do it. Kudos
Selection matters. Most of the existing "cuts" of anything(also seed lines) were selected under hps lights.
It's not really surprising to see plants not growing the same under led lights.
I had clones indoors(led) and outdoors(sun, gh) and can swear sometimes I could hardly recognize the OD plants.
Also the effect is different, I prefer it from leds, more focused less muddy.
Selection matters. Most of the existing "cuts" of anything(also seed lines) were selected under hps lights.
It's not really surprising to see plants not growing the same under led lights.
I had clones indoors(led) and outdoors(sun, gh) and can swear sometimes I could hardly recognize the OD plants.
Also the effect is different, I prefer it from leds, more focused less muddy.
i would do it for sure!
and it would be really interesting to see COA's on it all.
from clone. the same cut.
Ca++
Well-known member
Generally I can take a cut from anyone, and grow a different plant, in the same system. I have to do all the growing myself, then blind test them. Thankfully I'm very consistant and have a quite a collection of old bud. So this is a common occurrence. Though finding testers who can keep focused is challenging.
There is certainly not a night and day like difference. Results are back n forth. No two smokers tend to agree all the time, as we all value different qualities differently. Be it Bob and interest in nothing but if if makes him shut up, to myself who wants a good flavour and anything but a dead head or paranoia
There is certainly not a night and day like difference. Results are back n forth. No two smokers tend to agree all the time, as we all value different qualities differently. Be it Bob and interest in nothing but if if makes him shut up, to myself who wants a good flavour and anything but a dead head or paranoia
don't ever look back but always look forward. i have been learning for almost 27 years now and it just keeps getting more and more interesting as new tech and research emerge.
so, i have a little experimental grow going on right now pertaining to this subject. i am growing a very special plant and i have two going in almost identical setups.
i have these two homemade screw-in led fixtures and i have shown a pic of one earlier in this thread.
i have two mini experiments going on based on your pictures and research papers and dr Bugbee's input, and my own experience.
i've have, in the last year, done some nice grows using these bulbs in a 50/50 ratio.
very dank trich-covered buds that were quite potent.
ethos orange kush cake, planet of the grapes , and candy store, and a plant called rare lemonhead that was bred by a friend of a friend.
but they didn't have the size that you saw in my last hps grow in oregon.
i have collected quite a bit of info on this subject but i think i'll run the experiment out before comment.
i had both fixtures at a ratio of 66.6%/33..3% 2700k and 5000k.
i am leaving one like that and just turned the other into 100% 2700k
but anyway, here's the addy if anyone wants to follow the progress or lack thereof.
MAYBERRY (BLUE STAR S1) M-22 breeders cut
como estas ya'll! Welcome to a PPK grow of Bluestarseedco's Mayberry s1 from the Blue Star line. Blue Star = Death Star x Whitaker Blues Death Star = Sour Diesel x Sensi Star Whitaker Blues = Quimby x DJ Short 98 F4 Blueberry Josh Blue is the breeder and here is his description; "Blueberry...
www.icmag.com
do the same blind grow in Maui.... with the same clone... n lets see the outcome....
do you mean the same blind grow with the sun? because if so that's not the topic of this thread and is only peripherally related to indoor growing as a comparison tool.
maybe some see the thread as a competition, but i don't. i see it as an opportunity for a group of experienced growers to solve what seems to be an industry-wide problem that some folks are having and some aren't.
i think that we are going to find out that most of the led manufacturers have been a little less than honest in their marketing.
the thread title is "LED and bud quality", not "hps is better", or "the sun is best".
i think some hobbyists will probably grow with hid hardware until the day they die because they are comfortable with it and they get good results.
most folks in the industry are embracing led tech and won't go back to hid even if it means going through a learning process.
i read everything i can on the subject of light and cannabis. this is not a casual hobby for me.
it's all i do. it is my career and my passion.
and the only way i would participate in a blind study would be if everyone involved agreed to have COA's done and provide weekly pics.
everyone should pay the fee for the coa's in advance so they have skin in the game.
if they can't do this they are not serious about getting to the bottom of what i see as a small puzzle.
"ditch led and go to hps" is not a solution to led and bud quality, it is a distraction and it would be really fucking nice if those with that mindset would just stay the fuck out of the thread. and let those who sincerely want to get better and learn work without all the bullshit and distraction.
i'll be back!
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A much cheaper option with a similar spectrum to the CHPS if you want to run a lower wattage ‘complementary’ trial. “RSBR150”Interesting fact: I'm having some seedlings under mixed leds(4000K and 6400K) right now and they're all turning towards the 6400K led bulb.
The full spectrum of the CMH lamps is very appealing because it's closest to sunlight(except plasma). Adding a 3100K CMH to 3500K cobs would be an interesting combo. Must think about it.
The light I really want to try is Ceramic Hps but it's not available here in Europe.
I noticed issues with leds in winter, obvious lack of infrareds, so I'm trying to resolve it with heating the floor with IRThe CMH would also add IR from the top but honestly it would maybe be too much of a change from what I'm used to. One thing at a time.
Cheers
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The 600 and up is broadly similar. I wrote to use it as a complementary/supplementary light. Koondense could hang it in with his cobs to see what difference it makes before shelling out for a CHPS. Largest lamp is only 150w. Cost is negligible.
I came across it as CHPS is not available where I am either. Would be interested in hanging it with a 10k CMH.
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One thing I disagree with is you claim they are all crap. A Vero 29 is way different from cheap blurple light fixture. I saw trichome heads on leaf from underbud 3 weeks from earliest harvest. I recently posted link to what plants need throughout life. Separate drivers with dimmers for red and blue would be ideal.
oh no, more flowers ruined by leds. the accepted protocol on this thread is to send them to me for disposal. beautiful flowers, man, nice job!
i think you just nailed it, loc dog!
somebody said about indoor plants one time, "short plants are happy plants".
even with hid's, a high blue ratio throughout veg and stretch makes a more compact plant with the same root system as a taller, stretched-out plant grown vegetatively under a high ratio red source.
at the end of stretch, the old timers would then switch bulbs to hps.
this was back in the early days when we were using street lamps and some of the lamps i used were cheap GE 2000k color temp bulbs designed for parking lots and street lamps.
i have also grown with 1500 watt football stadium metal halides. i think they were 4200K. i used them in conjunction with pure 2000K hps with no blue so the balance made some huge plants.
That's the main problem, calling flowers with skinny trichomes that all look the same (not good) quality... It's becoming exhausting now, please stop posting your high leaf to bud, long neck no head trichome foxtailed flowers... I'm not seeing how this contribute to this thread ? What can we know from this pics, that your LEDs grow look exectly the same like the other one ?
Whattt now ? No it can't be !
Hid is old tech bro not modern tech !!
And hids are lame spectrum !!
And also cost a fraction ! And not sponsored by any prof from a so called university
Damn those HIDs, damn them all to hell
You literally have no idea what you are talking about. Skinny trichomes that look like not good quality? All trichomes are intact here and look identical with the same strain to when we used HID, also test results have bumped up since converting. The buds glisten like they are coated in broken glass. Its pretty funny to see you try and down talk quality of LEDs when we've had cannabinoid and terpene tests increase. You also deny the science of a man with more federal funding to study cannabis than anyone along with nasa funding. Its pretty hilarious. Feel free to keep growing with parking lot lights, well keep hitting 75-80 grams per sq foot, with no photobleaching and embarrass you, for a lower cost by far too.
Also….high leaf to bud ratio? Please tell me how im looking that way here at week 6….with white truffle of all strains. Its like the easiest shit to trim ever.
Also….high leaf to bud ratio? Please tell me how im looking that way here at week 6….with white truffle of all strains. Its like the easiest shit to trim ever.
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420 bhudda
New member
Like every bro science comment . Waiting for the science .
Two exact same grows . Must be exactly the same . Must use same Clone from one plant for both grows .
Conditions must be exactly the same for soil , environment and nutrients.
I have read actual scientific controlled experiments on far red and uv light . Totally useless and detrimental in large doses .
As for low quality trichrome , hop latent virus is more likely the culprit .
I've grown great tasting super sticky 24 % thc Durban with a cheap blurple and COB floodlights from Walmart.
What's most important is to know what you have and use it properly. No substitute for careful observation. Observe , report one change at a time .
Sorry to preach .
Two exact same grows . Must be exactly the same . Must use same Clone from one plant for both grows .
Conditions must be exactly the same for soil , environment and nutrients.
I have read actual scientific controlled experiments on far red and uv light . Totally useless and detrimental in large doses .
As for low quality trichrome , hop latent virus is more likely the culprit .
I've grown great tasting super sticky 24 % thc Durban with a cheap blurple and COB floodlights from Walmart.
What's most important is to know what you have and use it properly. No substitute for careful observation. Observe , report one change at a time .
Sorry to preach .
