LED and BUD QUALITY

[delta9nxs]

Have you not read this thread?

if you mean me, yes, ive read every word of it. why do you ask?

 

[Switcher56]

jesus fucking a christ! snakedope, did you not read any of the above?

 

[Switcher56]

but i do care about yield, terpenes, and looks. but i also care equally about cannabinoid content.

I'm not done here yet! i will present some very interesting stuff later in the day.

everyone here including me has a set of personal experiences that they think proves their points.

we have all been wrong! some have been more or less wrong and some really wrong but no one, including me, has been really right.

We need to see the light

 

[delta9nxs]

the light on yon horizon! the light at the end of the tunnel!

 

[Switcher56]

here are a few pics of some of the plants i grew at my facility in oregon. i used sunlight supply DE's with the Philip greenpower bulb. i just showed the distribution graph.

Please notice that there is just one stem under each.

you can see that the bud structure i got here is eerily similar to vermontmann's. what does this show? the value of photographs? just joking!

it shows that the spectral distribution is similar.

@snakedope, buddy, this is why you see the differences you think you see!

there is a big difference though, between vermontmann's pics and mine. i use a better camera? no, that's not it!

he acheived those huge flowers with a cheap ass amazon light and i got mine with $600 dollar fixtures.

of course my plants are heavier overall because of the sheer size and light power.

also, i had 49 of these lights and because of that, i had to run 225,000 btu of cooling.

which is 4591 btu each.

even if he gangbanged 5 of his lights together to equal one of mine i bet he wouldn't use more than about 2500 btu's of cooling.

that's why LEDS!

I would have ran cooling through the light fixtures. That's 20T of cooling that could probably be cut in 1/2 by cooling your lights. Nice girls though num, num

 

[delta9nxs]

We need to see the light

I would have ran cooling through the light fixtures. That's 20T of cooling that could probably be cut in 1/2 by cooling your lights. Nice girls though num, num

thank you!

actually, i did it both ways. i had large temp swings outside of a poorly insulated metal building.

when using long runs of flexible insulated ducting i had condensation which caused mold to form in areas.

by leaving the fixture plenums open i had plenty of airflow through them as i had a lot of air movement in the rooms.

so the ac's cooled the rooms and helped control humidity at the same time.

i think the manufacturer called for 4000 btu per fixture in a sealed room so it was like having another de-huey. i already had a quest 155 running balls to the wall 24/7 and it wasn't quite getting the job done.

 

[goingrey]

yes, but i was just looking at the distribution of them. not relative power. but still, because of the distribution they are heavily red. and that is the point i'm trying to make. vermontmann's flowers were massively heavy for the light source and power. and i now know why.

The point I apparently failed to make was that the relative efficacy will have an impact on the spectrum. Seems like sometimes blues diodes are more efficient and sometimes red diodes, so without knowing the model numbers we just don't know. But based on how purple the light looks, it would seem that in the case of the blurples the overall spectrum is more evenly balanced between blue and red. If it was heavy on the red to the point of 75%, it would look more red.

But yes, still a lot of red.

Please my man why are you disturbing LED growers solid 100% proof lights... Don't embarrass them, you won't get out easy from this

I will be the first to admit that LED flowers are somehow lacking in effect. However, I find that to be the case also with HPS flowers, and I'm not convinced they are necessarily any better. Unfortunately, can't grow everything with the sun where I live, or indeed anything at all for half of the year. Plasma lights have piqued my interest but options are limited and expensive.

 

[snakedope]

"LEDs don't have this balance." could you please explain in detail what you think this balance consists of?

Sure, although I said it many times.
You don't need to look far to find the correct balance, look at the sun, no need me or other scientific paper for that.
The sun is full spectrum on one side, and full intensity on the other.
Light is built from 2 things, the type of waves and their strangth, just like a speaker, you have the waves (vocals) and you have the amplitude (vocals hearing strength)
Now let's drive the amplitude (strength of the vocals) down, but keep all the vocals (words) , what do you think will happen ?
Now let's compare that to lights, keep the spectrum (LEDs) but take away the voltage (0.5w diodes) what do you think will happen ?

You caused imbalance, you are no where near ideal sun/creation/nature/god conditions.
You rather be on people minds balance, which has always proven to be not good, think you know better then the one created you or the sun ? Well that's a known complex humans have since the dawn of history. God complex, go figure.
Our sun is magnetic current (plasma) that goes through nobel gases in the sky all day (hence the colors you see in the sky)
Now think for a sec, use ur brain not bugsbee brain, which light do I know that is using the same principals as the sun (not 100% same sure in terms of wavetypes but the principals !) I'll leave this one for you to figure out.

So why are they even work ?
Nature adapts, why ? Cuz everything has a survival mode built into it, so even with the littlest you can survive, plants and animals are the same
You can give 0.5w of light to a plant, and it will grow, and grow spectacular (your pics prove this) and I also don't think otherwise, BUT !
You are not growing medicine.
That's it.
The meds this plants give us require the fullest balance from the sun (high heat and high intensity) both equally strong, supporting the protective mechanism in this plants dna.

Peace.

 

[delta9nxs]

The point I apparently failed to make was that the relative efficacy will have an impact on the spectrum. Seems like sometimes blues diodes are more efficient and sometimes red diodes, so without knowing the model numbers we just don't know. But based on how purple the light looks, it would seem that in the case of the blurples the overall spectrum is more evenly balanced between blue and red. If it was heavy on the red to the point of 75%, it would look more red.

But yes, still a lot of red.


I will be the first to admit that LED flowers are somehow lacking in effect. However, I find that to be the case also with HPS flowers, and I'm not convinced they are necessarily any better. Unfortunately, can't grow everything with the sun where I live, or indeed anything at all for half of the year. Plasma lights have piqued my interest but options are limited and expensive.

hey, i've put this up somewhere in here before but this is pertinent to this discussion.

the hated dr bugbee again! some folks hate him because he is so educated.

he has a nice section on the relative power of diodes and their importance.

 

[vermontman]

Can you please stop posting pics and get back to the discussion?

The same topic got discussed a couple weeks back on the IG account from Seedjunky - and quite a few commercial producers chimed in and are switching back/staying with HPS.
Pretty interesting to read their arguments.

HHHMMNNN Seems like I caused a riot of discussion, anyway its just the way I contribute. In 48 years I started in outdoor sun, SUN IS AWESOME!
Still grow in sun when I can.
For years after that Halide and HPS had better results with Halide and their conversion bulbs which still had a bit more blue and the quality was quite good. When I added LED's the colors and quality of my buds popped. I still use all these as tools except HPS to grow even the Halide to start sometimes and finish off with LED when it's cold and the quality of all three finished products is great at least thast's what the people that receive my cannabis say. HAHA

 

[g0dzilla]

Delta, I respect you as a man and a grower, and you are right about less heat, less power expanse, etc
But please keep in mind that everything in life is balance, LEDs don't have this balance.
So you have less heat and less power consumption but when you give something more, you take from the other,
Your advantages are the meds disadvantages.
If you refuse to understand that this is the truth about those light you just live in denial.
Again, LEDs can grow awesome plants and very beautiful, they can't grow good meds.
So if beautiful plants are your go to then grow bananas or papaya or some, cuz meds are not growing on those beautiful plants.

 

[zachrockbadenof]

SUN IS AWESOME!

and in '3' letters vermontman told everyone on this thread how to grow the 'best' weed... will this end the 46page thread... probably not... but remember them '3' letters.... S U N ...

 

[Koondense]

Should I get a CMH light for winter?
Growing under diy cobs for 7 years now, always had my eye on the Philips 315W 3100K but never pulled the trigger. Now there's a chance to get a new Lumatek fixture and Philips bulb for less than 250€. Would supplement with cobs of course...
Or should I get a 250W HPS?

 

[delta9nxs]

the big metal halide in the sky.

the hemp company i worked for had a lot of land, their own bulk extracting lab, and a processing lab for the products they made. i just ran the indoor facility and didn't get involved with the outside growing much but i witnessed it all.

once in a while they would take some of the indoor i grew of the same strains and run it through the lab.

the indoor plants had a much greater extractable volume as a percentage of mass.

yes the sun grows great bulk product for extraction but there are few places on earth where the outdoor
grows without a lot of issues. high-quality flowers, even if for extraction, are still mostly grown indoors for the legal market.

i'm sure everyone has an anecdotal story about the fire they grew outside and that's great.

i have friends in Hawaii and i lived in Puerto Rico and the virgin islands. my friends on Maui produced, to this day, some of the finest smoke i've ever had. all outdoors, in native soil with no nutrients, no watering.

 

[delta9nxs]

Should I get a CMH light for winter?
Growing under diy cobs for 7 years now, always had my eye on the Philips 315W 3100K but never pulled the trigger. Now there's a chance to get a new Lumatek fixture and Philips bulb for less than 250€. Would supplement with cobs of course...
Or should I get a 250W HPS?

there's a lot of common sense in using a higher heat source if you are also heating with it.

i have owned a 960 watt cmh that i only used in a large veg room. the effect is very similar to 5000k or 6500k leds, just more heat.

 

[Koondense]

Interesting fact: I'm having some seedlings under mixed leds(4000K and 6400K) right now and they're all turning towards the 6400K led bulb.
The full spectrum of the CMH lamps is very appealing because it's closest to sunlight(except plasma). Adding a 3100K CMH to 3500K cobs would be an interesting combo. Must think about it.
The light I really want to try is Ceramic Hps but it's not available here in Europe.
I noticed issues with leds in winter, obvious lack of infrareds, so I'm trying to resolve it with heating the floor with IR The CMH would also add IR from the top but honestly it would maybe be too much of a change from what I'm used to. One thing at a time.

Cheers

 

[goingrey]

The Effect of Light Spectrum on the Morphology and Cannabinoid Content of Cannabis sativa L - PubMed

<span><i>Cannabis sativa</i> L. flowers are the main source of Δ-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) used in medicine. One of the most important growth factors in cannabis cultivation is light; light quality, light intensity, and photoperiod play a big role in a successful growth protocol. The aim of...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Edit seems this was already posted

Anyway, can anecdotally confirm the same clone under LED and sun is different (aroma and high). Even with everything else being the same (same nutes windowsill vs tent). Which is better, that's a matter of opinion. Larger percentage of overall mass being essential oil indoors, I can see that. But to someone who prefers the essential oil of sun grown that might not be important.

 

[Switcher56]

thank you!

actually, i did it both ways. i had large temp swings outside of a poorly insulated metal building.

when using long runs of flexible insulated ducting i had condensation which caused mold to form in areas.

by leaving the fixture plenums open i had plenty of airflow through them as i had a lot of air movement in the rooms.

so the ac's cooled the rooms and helped control humidity at the same time.

i think the manufacturer called for 4000 btu per fixture in a sealed room so it was like having another de-huey. i already had a quest 155 running balls to the wall 24/7 and it wasn't quite getting the job done.

Make`s sense Remember what I said earlier adapted to "your" climate and growing conditions

 

[Koondense]

I see differences in my clones when the only variable is temperature.
The same plant grown in summer or autumn makes different buds with slightly different resin and smells, bud structure etc.
So there's an everlasting struggle for "ideal" environment for a particular plant.
Spectrum is just a part of the puzzle.

 

[vermontman]

I see differences in my clones when the only variable is temperature.
The same plant grown in summer or autumn makes different buds with slightly different resin and smells, bud structure etc.
So there's an everlasting struggle for "ideal" environment for a particular plant.
Spectrum is just a part of the puzzle.

What he said!!!!