LED and BUD QUALITY

[weedemart]

See this is just factually false. You could not be more wrong here. When feeding 1.4-1.8 ec i was not nitrogen deficient. I was Potassium deficient. Most people who suffer nitrogen deficiency can correct this easily based on obvious chlorosis. In my case i was accused of overfeeding because the edge of my leaves turned brown, but in fact, and after testing, it was clearly K deficiency which presents itself that way. Im sorry man, im calling bullshit on this.

So in this comments example you said its 10x the price but in your last comment you said 1cent vs 3-4 cents. So youre now going from 300x-400x markup to 1000x markup. Which is it? Which nute line are you basing this on? Because advanced nutes are expensive as fuck and front row isnt. Youre generalizing too much to make any solid point.

im basing on canna base nutrient because thats what most grow ops use and I said less than a cent , 0.005$/L to be exact. And I really doubt you had potassium deficiency. cannabis require moderate potassium level and almost all hydroponic nutrient have plenty of potassium. so most likely you had lockout or antagonism with magnesium/ammonium and potentially but less likely calcium.

I think I said it earlier but i'm at 80ppm K start to finish no deficiency... At 1.5 with aquaflakes you are probly close to 160ppm K. Just sayin

but wtv. like i said im at the opposite side of majority of grower.

 

[Ca++]

In all honesty, dtw blocks on slabs, was about as bad as it's got for me.

The combination I got, was all vertical fibers. The water just sank from the drippers, down the verticle channels in the wool, to form a pool below.

I would of rather flooded them. That pool can be deeper. Then it's a bit more fluid draining straight back out. Which I would hope, is better cleaning up, and air movement.

My use of F&D has been with fast draining media. I have seen the buckets I use filled with coco, but it just seemed like daily watering, to my mind. A little better than you can do with drippers, but not trying to build an aero system.

If an aero draped it's roots over something, is it still an aero?
If I poured, instead of sprayed, would that still be an aero?
If aero is just wet roots in the air. Clay pebbles is aero. Nothing envelopes the roots.
In pebbles I'm flooding every 4 hours. The root tips can drink from the porous pebbles. I don't flood to wet them though. I flood them to draw in some air.
Think about this for a moment. Normally I'm drying plants out to draw in air. Here I'm wetting them to draw in some air. While exchanging the oxygen depleted water, for something from the tank. Without having really watered them, any more than they already were. Chasing that air exchange, with every flood interval. Right through the night.

I tried a fair few intervals. Perhaps 4 hours winning, was related to something else. But I like to think it's about the oxygen.

This leaves me running F&D, but not really knowing how coco or rockwool would fair in it (with me). As I feel my use of it is somewhat different. Even if you won't let me call it aero.

 

[weedemart]

In all honesty, dtw blocks on slabs, was about as bad as it's got for me.

The combination I got, was all vertical fibers. The water just sank from the drippers, down the verticle channels in the wool, to form a pool below.

I would of rather flooded them. That pool can be deeper. Then it's a bit more fluid draining straight back out. Which I would hope, is better cleaning up, and air movement.

My use of F&D has been with fast draining media. I have seen the buckets I use filled with coco, but it just seemed like daily watering, to my mind. A little better than you can do with drippers, but not trying to build an aero system.

If an aero draped it's roots over something, is it still an aero?
If I poured, instead of sprayed, would that still be an aero?
If aero is just wet roots in the air. Clay pebbles is aero. Nothing envelopes the roots.
In pebbles I'm flooding every 4 hours. The root tips can drink from the porous pebbles. I don't flood to wet them though. I flood them to draw in some air.
Think about this for a moment. Normally I'm drying plants out to draw in air. Here I'm wetting them to draw in some air. While exchanging the oxygen depleted water, for something from the tank. Without having really watered them, any more than they already were. Chasing that air exchange, with every flood interval. Right through the night.

I tried a fair few intervals. Perhaps 4 hours winning, was related to something else. But I like to think it's about the oxygen.

This leaves me running F&D, but not really knowing how coco or rockwool would fair in it (with me). As I feel my use of it is somewhat different. Even if you won't let me call it aero.

I did something similar . I drilled 49 hole in a 4x4 3/4'' plywood,fit on a 4x4 ebbflow, bought 49 3'' hydro basket filled with clay pebbles and flood the entire table . It worked well. It was semi-passive aeroponics, for me.

 

[Ca++]

It's a lot of water. I would be thinking about some displacement. Filling the gaps with anything, to at least save 10L. Another day before the tanks too low to flood properly. And 10L less to pour away.

I made an F&D tray, for a 40cell cutting tray. Just an inch of F&D, to wet them. Then 3 more trays, to expand into as they grew, and went in to pots. I can cork trays not in use. So I don't need to make up excess feed. That vast amount of about 5 liters.

 

[Crooked8]

im basing on canna base nutrient because thats what most grow ops use and I said less than a cent , 0.005$/L to be exact. And I really doubt you had potassium deficiency. cannabis require moderate potassium level and almost all hydroponic nutrient have plenty of potassium. so most likely you had lockout or antagonism with magnesium/ammonium and potentially but less likely calcium.

I think I said it earlier but i'm at 80ppm K start to finish no deficiency... At 1.5 with aquaflakes you are probly close to 160ppm K. Just sayin

but wtv. like i said im at the opposite side of majority of grower.

You can doubt all you want, im just telling you what the lab results said. Both mag and cal were in range, the only glaringly obvious issue was K being too low 1.45 was the value and the range is 1.83-2.35. I spoke with their technician on my results and they said i needed to supplement K or up my base feed, which i did, and the problem is now corrected. Ive always tried to keep my EC low. When running HPS we never really exceeded that 1.4-1.6 ish range. Sometimes in week 4-5 we would hit 1.7-1.8. Never a problem. Under agrobars, they got hungry and that makes sense. More light requires more inputs when it comes to cardinal parameters, more feed and co2 enrichment are necessary. Anyone who doubts that just hasnt experienced it.

 

[weedemart]

so the lab technician took a tissue analysis , noticed the potassium shortage and his recommandation was increase potassium without taking a water simple from your feed/slab? = /

More likely it was not available.But hey what do I know I'm a closet grower =)

And wtv light you have, DLI will impact your feed , not the quality of your light. I dont think you are above 1000umols/s.

Im running at 40-50 mole/m2/day at week 3, 80ppm K , no co2.

 

[Crooked8]

so the lab technician took a tissue analysis , noticed the potassium shortage and his recommandation was increase potassium without taking a water simple from your feed/slab? = /

More likely it was not available.But hey what do I know I'm a closet grower =)

And wtv light you have, DLI will impact your feed , not the quality of your light. I dont think you are above 1000umols/s.

Im running at 40-50 mole/m2/day at week 3, 80ppm K , no co2.

He looked at all other parameters being either in line or right on the mark within acceptable ranges and made a recommendation that worked. So, what do you know?

Regarding light intensity again you would be wrong, in some areas were hitting 12-1300+ umol. An increase in light directly correlates to how much feed is required. If you pour on more photons you need adequate feed. This is also why you will not see increases in photosynthetic rate above 600 umol without co2 supplementation. Those are bugbees findings/words, not mine. I took both of his courses through USU. Fwiw i have been doing this shit for 23 years but still chose to take those expensive classes. I have over 100 hours of exposure to bugbee, royal heins mitch westmoreland and their teams lectures, graphs, experiments etc.

Again, at 1.1 ec i would be STARVING my plants. Bugbee himself doesnt feed that low even in veg. They stay consistently at 1.4 as a typical feed strength and that is with an amended jacks formula.

Remember how i mentioned humbleness? Youre still acting as if you know it all, and you have all this success, yet you grow in a tent. Its hard to take seriously especially when i have literal tissue analysis youre trying to discredit. Telling me i wasnt K deficient with the numbers in front of me and having corrected the issue by upping my base feed. Have you ever just been wrong or what?

 

[CocoNut 420]

I also increase ec with intensity, if I don't increase the ec with intensity they'll look like shit in a few days, I used to hold of kinda afraid to use 2.0/2.2ec but now I know high intensity requires a higher ec.

Limon blanco

It's grows a bit lumpy and it's not a great yeilder but it's got a lovely lemon zesty smell and taste.

 

[greyfader]

He looked at all other parameters being either in line or right on the mark within acceptable ranges and made a recommendation that worked. So, what do you know?

Regarding light intensity again you would be wrong, in some areas were hitting 12-1300+ umol. An increase in light directly correlates to how much feed is required. If you pour on more photons you need adequate feed. This is also why you will not see increases in photosynthetic rate above 600 umol without co2 supplementation. Those are bugbees findings/words, not mine. I took both of his courses through USU. Fwiw i have been doing this shit for 23 years but still chose to take those expensive classes. I have over 100 hours of exposure to bugbee, royal heins mitch westmoreland and their teams lectures, graphs, experiments etc.

Again, at 1.1 ec i would be STARVING my plants. Bugbee himself doesnt feed that low even in veg. They stay consistently at 1.4 as a typical feed strength and that is with an amended jacks formula.

Remember how i mentioned humbleness? Youre still acting as if you know it all, and you have all this success, yet you grow in a tent. Its hard to take seriously especially when i have literal tissue analysis youre trying to discredit. Telling me i wasnt K deficient with the numbers in front of me and having corrected the issue by upping my base feed. Have you ever just been wrong or what?

I'm wondering how you are amending the jack's formula?

 

[Crooked8]

I'm wondering how you are amending the jack's formula?

I dont run Jacks thats Bugbees feed i was referring to.

 

[Crooked8]

I also increase ec with intensity, if I don't increase the ec with intensity they'll look like shit in a few days, I used to hold of kinda afraid to use 2.0/2.2ec but now I know high intensity requires a higher ec.

Limon blanco
View attachment 18967559
It's grows a bit lumpy and it's not a great yeilder but it's got a lovely lemon zesty smell and taste.

This looks absolutely phenomenal. Love that silver look.

And you are absolutely right to up feed with a light increase in intensity. Its a requirement. I like this correlation, if you slap a huge turbo(intense light) on a stock motor what happens? It blows, youll walk that motor quick. But if you upgrade your internals/manifolds/intake/exhaust etc(like more irrigation, more feed, more co2) you can go for the extremes.

 

[weedemart]

He looked at all other parameters being either in line or right on the mark within acceptable ranges and made a recommendation that worked. So, what do you know?

Regarding light intensity again you would be wrong, in some areas were hitting 12-1300+ umol. An increase in light directly correlates to how much feed is required. If you pour on more photons you need adequate feed. This is also why you will not see increases in photosynthetic rate above 600 umol without co2 supplementation. Those are bugbees findings/words, not mine. I took both of his courses through USU. Fwiw i have been doing this shit for 23 years but still chose to take those expensive classes. I have over 100 hours of exposure to bugbee, royal heins mitch westmoreland and their teams lectures, graphs, experiments etc.

Again, at 1.1 ec i would be STARVING my plants. Bugbee himself doesnt feed that low even in veg. They stay consistently at 1.4 as a typical feed strength and that is with an amended jacks formula.

Remember how i mentioned humbleness? Youre still acting as if you know it all, and you have all this success, yet you grow in a tent. Its hard to take seriously especially when i have literal tissue analysis youre trying to discredit. Telling me i wasnt K deficient with the numbers in front of me and having corrected the issue by upping my base feed. Have you ever just been wrong or what?

I agree with you increase in DLI,especially above 50, will have an effect on feed. But you cant judge by EC if you dont know what this EC hold. And honestly, theres too much potassium in almost all feed so that very unlikely to have potassium shortage.

What you dont understand is at 1.1 ec , I hold probly as much nitrogen as you at 1.5. My ratio are totally different than average nutrient and because it's lean , i can feed lower ec with the same strenght.

The closest nutrient on the market to my feed is dynagro foliage pro.very good nutes but too much ammonium for me.

Cannabis growth and health is drived by nitrogen not by potassium.

Notice how many crops show foxtailing. Well most of time its caused by potassium or phophorus!
Most nutrient company use potassium as buffer in their feed. Other use ammonium.And most grower use... Phosphoric acid.You see the correlation.

I use none I have a different way to buff my feed. That one of the reason my feed is lean.

I get rewarded everytime at harvest for this reason

 

[Crooked8]

I agree with you increase in DLI,especially above 50, will have an effect on feed. But you cant judge by EC if you dont know what this EC hold. And honestly, theres too much potassium in almost all feed so that very unlikely to have potassium shortage.

What you dont understand is at 1.1 ec , I hold probly as much nitrogen as you at 1.5. My ratio are totally different than average nutrient and because it's lean , i can feed lower ec with the same strenght.

The closest nutrient on the market to my feed is dynagro foliage pro.very good nutes but too much ammonium for me.

Cannabis growth and health is drived by nitrogen not by potassium.

Notice how many crops show foxtailing. Well most of time its caused by potassium!
Most nutrient company use potassium as buffer in their feed. Other use ammonium.
I use none I have a different way to buff my feed. That one of the reason my feed is lean.

Do you understand the functions of Phosphorous and Potassium? Also micros functions? Because growth and health are not at all solely based on Nitrogen. Thats just one of many false statements lately with you. And I understand not all EC are the same without knowing the contents. Thats very basic. But 1.1 is low with almost any feed ive encountered. I dont have your solution to play with so i cant say for a certainty, but i have a strong feeling if i ran your feed under my lights at 1.1 id be in trouble.

 

[weedemart]

Do you understand the functions of Phosphorous and Potassium? Also micros functions? Because growth and health are not at all solely based on Nitrogen. Thats just one of many false statements lately with you. And I understand not all EC are the same without knowing the contents. Thats very basic. But 1.1 is low with almost any feed ive encountered. I dont have your solution to play with so i cant say for a certainty, but i have a strong feeling if i ran your feed under my lights at 1.1 id be in trouble.

If you are above 1000 umols

 

[Crooked8]

If you are above 1000 umols

So no to my question i guess.

First of all Phosphorous, cannabis is exceptionally needy of P storage compared to other plants. Phosphorous deficiency isnt rare whats rare is tocixity of P. It impacts metabolism, root growth, flower development and frame structure. Its deficiency is seen as necrotic tips, curling upward, inner veinal necrosis and purpling of leaves. Cannabis stores P like crazy. They mentioned this several times in the courses. And they are using equipment worth a fortune to monitor everything.


Potassium is directly correlated with photosynthetic rate and water use. Its deficiency can be seen by leaf edge necrosis, which is exactly what i had along with some chlorotic fans. It was night and day when we upped our feed.

Calcium and Magnesium are important, copper is important, iron, sulfur, silica, manganese the list goes on. There are 17 elements required for plant life.

*****Nitrogen is not all we need to focus on.*****

Dont you make your own feed?

 

[weedemart]

I do. But I'm not gonna copy-paste wikipedia.

And its false that cannabis require a lot of P. But yes P is correlated with yield and quality. As you increase P you increase yield but you reduce quality. And P is known to induce stretch.

Cannabis doesnt require a lot of potassium. It grow like a foliage plant not a fruiting plant.

What if I told you it is more efficent to measure nutrient strenght in function of N than taking EC reading. Because EC means nothing to plant.

Stop tryin to test me lol.

I might have a small grow tent , I have a deep understanding of the market and cultivation. Hopefully one day I will own a bigger tent

 

[Crooked8]

I do. But I'm not gonna copy-paste wikipedia.

And its false that cannabis require a lot of P. But yes P is correlated with yield and quality. As you increase P you increase yield but you reduce quality. And P is known to induce stretch.

Cannabis doesnt require a lot of potassium. It grow like a foliage plant not a fruiting plant.

What if I told you it is more efficent to measure nutrient strenght in function of N than taking EC reading. Because EC means nothing to plant.

Stop tryin to test me lol.

I might have a small grow tent , I have a deep understanding of the market and cultivation. Hopefully one day I will own a bigger tent

Funny you say wikipedia when its straight from bugbees course. Wanna see my hand written notes? Im not trying to test you, you just keep saying things like nitrogen is all thats important and that you doubt things happened when they actually did like my deficiency. Its like you imagine yourself as this cannabis legend but its in your mind and thats it. You also know the ins and outs of cannabis cultivation at scale. You also know how to make nutrients that are cleaner than everyone elses. You also know that nitrogen is somehow all that really matters. Now youre saying EC means nothing. Can you also fly? Do you have superpowers too bro? We get it, youre the best. You said it yourself you grow differently than 99% of growers. Were all just out here measuring ec and feeding macros and micros with no need. Meanwhile youre just tinkering with nitrogen levels and embarrassing us all.

 

[Crooked8]

@weedemart why are you only in a small tent instead of running the cannabis market? Honest question. How are you so experienced and so knowledgable yet you have nothing to show for it?

I think you dont want to be tested because you dont know. Mr Brainiac please show us your depth of knowledge.

What is mass balance?

Your beloved nitrogen is used in two forms, what are they? When each one enters the rhizosphere of a root, something must come out, what is it?

When plants seek Phosphorous, what do they do and why? Whats often the result in deficient plants and media lacking P? If they

You are correct that high P can create more stretch/node spacing, when would the be a benefit?

Why are Chelates so important when it comes to Iron?

Why is any of this taught as information in these courses when it comes to cannabis if all we need to stress is Nitrogen?

 

[weedemart]

I think you didnt understand . I just wont go deeper in that subject. Nothing wrong with what you said except ... yea plant doesnt require much phosphorus and potassium. On average soil have 10-20 ppm and sometime less, phosphorus.

And I'll add, yes I know a lot because I read a lot and I practice a lot,I experiment a lot.I dont follow trend.

I had the opportunity to see cannabis growing at large scale and the challenge that comes with it. I seen why they failed. I'm not an accountant but I know finance and business. I know the inputs and the cost to run this business and I know both side of the market. I know regulations.I studied this market since the legalisation.I also studied HVAC.Can't fly tho and no superpowers.

If our government and banks was not corrupted I could finance a buisness. Unfortunately the legal market barrier are so high actually you need either a lot of contact in the market or 2M$ in cash.

 

[Crooked8]

I think you didnt understand . I just wont go deeper in that subject. Nothing wrong with what you said except ... yea plant doesnt require much phosphorus and potassium. On average soil have 10-20 ppm and sometime less, phosphorus.

And I'll add, yes I know a lot because I read a lot and I practice a lot,I experiment a lot.I dont follow trend.

I had the opportunity to see cannabis growing at large scale and the challenge that comes with it. I seen why they failed. I'm not an accountant but I know finance and business. I know the inputs and the cost to run this business and I know both side of the market. I know regulations.I studied this market since the legalisation.I also studied HVAC.Can't fly tho and no superpowers.

If our government and banks was not corrupted I could finance a buisness. Unfortunately the legal market barrier are so high actually you need either a lot of contact in the market or 2M$ in cash.

In tissue testing, Nitrogen is first, but Potassium is a close second when it comes to the % and ranges.

If youre as special as youve indicated surely someone would have had you running things. It sounds like they went another direction and youre left with a small grow. Which is fine man. Just stop trying so hard to argue with everyone when youre so clearly outgunned.

You told another member/moderator that you “standardized every aspect”. When you only did that for your system. Its just getting old.