LED and BUD QUALITY

[Crooked8]

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ok.the fact that aquaflakes is super rich in potassium leads me to think im right.If and only if your tissue analysis showed K defiency for real. here my thought ; you had magnesium antagonism because thats pretty stupid.. aquaflakes push way too much magnesium. 0.8%Mg against 0.9%K !!! thats pretty insane.. you should take a water analysis directly from a freshly mixed solution and look for magnesium vs potassium ratio. it should be close to 3-4K to 1Mg. but at the rate they say on the label it will cause antagonism, 100%. and topping between rez change just add to your issue. if any of your additive add more magnesium to the mix , you increase again antagonism by adding more magnesium to the already unbalanced mix. It could be the reason of the last drop that caused your issue. one of your additive add magnesium to your mix and it became quicly unbalanced. by increase base nutrient ec you restored this balance of the original mix.

as time pass, your mix become depleted of K and the antagonism become more obvious.Then you top off half strenght, add more magnesium to the mix which is already high in magnesium but not enought K and it keep going like that... That a dirty circle. So when you asked , increasing my base nute ec should increase antagonism; No because the source of your antagonism is probly an additive. your base nutrients is fine alone but limit unbalanced.

Like there not a lot of important ratio but this one is the most important ; K:mg ratio should be above 2 at all time.

But do the water analysis. hg label is shady. i think they just state minimum value but there is more.

if you find its really unbalanced,you should give a try on canna substra flores start to finish ( not aqua) or jacks hydro....they say hg is similar to canna but its not true.and dont listen what they say. it works in ebbflow and its well balanced.

Apprently their labels are bullshit. Ive heard this many times. All i know is ive run several bases and never had better product than flakes produces for us so ill be sticking with it. I do plan to do solution analysis. But please remember, my problem is corrected. Our plants are healthy and happy. Our feed is stable, ph is stable, ec drops steadily
Until i top up and correct it. This is what works best for us in ebb and flow and has also done well in our prior dwc systems.

 

[weedemart]

Apprently their labels are bullshit. Ive heard this many times. All i know is ive run several bases and never had better product than flakes produces for us so ill be sticking with it. I do plan to do solution analysis. But please remember, my problem is corrected. Our plants are healthy and happy.

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if I had to randomly guess. you use botanicare calmag or epsom salt.

 

[Crooked8]

if I had to randomly guess. you use botanicare calmag or epsom salt.

Cal mag yes, up until week 3 then we cut it out completely. There is plenty in there by that point and some in the base feed im sure. Last tissue test showed both in range at week 3.

 

[Prawn Connery]

Could you please provide some evidence to support that. My understanding is that they are around 10% efficient at the moment, might be bit more nowadays. Talking about LED UV.

Don't be lazy. Your "understanding" needs evidence, too. Don't make claims when you haven't done the research.

UV-A UV | NICHIA CORPORATION

I will help you this once: Radiant Flux divided by watts = efficiency. Have fun.

 

[Prawn Connery]

390-405 nm is closer to blue than uv. you should call the wavelenght instead. its misleading. but hey I understand why you use them at least. You were right but for me its blue.

<400nm is UVA. As you know, diodes peak at a particular wavelength but also emit either side of that wavelength. We use 405nm for several reasons:

Unmatched efficiency
Photosynthetic
Closes the gap on typical 450nm blue pump diodes
Provides about 1% UVA to our spectrum

People who talk about "UV" almost never specify which "UV" they are talking about – that's the biggest problem right there.

 

[Terpyterps]

Don't be lazy. Your "understanding" needs evidence, too. Don't make claims when you haven't done the research.

UV-A UV | NICHIA CORPORATION

I will help you this once: Radiant Flux divided by watts = efficiency. Have fun.

I was hoping bit more mature approach to this from you. You went straight to offensive strategy. I’m actually looking into it now, but was hoping if you have some valuable information you would have been willing to share it. I guess I was wrong about you. I’ll look into it when I got time to spare for this, got bit more important things to do than arguing with random stoner in internet forums

 

[Terpyterps]

Unfortunately he isnt completely right. It kinda depends on what uv: you could argue that fluorescent are a cost efficient option for uvb since those diodes are really quite inefficient and quite cheap. Youre proof is in the datasheets of said fluorescents and uv diodes; you can use almost any modern brand for this comparison: led come out winning in efficiency at least for 375-400nm.
Covid seems to have made efficient led uv much more available. Not everything said in a youtube Growcast is true.

I’m going to look into this later. Coco for cannabis seems to be legitimate dude, but yes obviously people can be wrong and no shame on that, it is natural and would be very unhealthy not to admit it.

 

[Terpyterps]

Another thing is that we are not even sure if extra supplementation of UV contributes with any meaningful way to cannabis.

Indoor grown cannabis yield increased proportionally with light intensity, but ultraviolet radiation did not affect yield or cannabinoid content

Cannabis (Cannabis sativa) flourishes under high light intensities (LI); making it an expensive commodity to grow in controlled environments, despite its high market value. It is commonly believed that cannabis secondary metabolite levels may be enhanced ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Rocket Soul]

I’m going to look into this later. Coco for cannabis seems to be legitimate dude, but yes obviously people can be wrong and no shame on that, it is natural and would be very unhealthy not to admit it.

It wasnt an unreasonable statement a few years ago, near uva has come a long way in the last few years. I think a lot of grower came to the consensus that fluorescents was the best way of doing it due to higher output per $, even though efficiency was not always great, and (with the right fluorescent spectrum) you can do the whole uva + uvb spectrum thru just one light. Doing uva + uvb leds just wasnt a price competetive option a few years ago. In that sense you could say fluorescents are more efficient, hang two tubes per tray and youre done, no messing around with mono leds in several channels.

Another thing is that we are not even sure if extra supplementation of UV contributes with any meaningful way to cannabis.

Indoor grown cannabis yield increased proportionally with light intensity, but ultraviolet radiation did not affect yield or cannabinoid content

Cannabis (Cannabis sativa) flourishes under high light intensities (LI); making it an expensive commodity to grow in controlled environments, despite its high market value. It is commonly believed that cannabis secondary metabolite levels may be enhanced ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

That study does the same thing as Bugsbee, he uses something similar to 1:1 of uvb to uva; imo this is too much uvb to uva. Youd want to do substantially higher uva than uvb; just like in nature. UVB seems to both stimulate cannabinoids as it breaks them down. My humble opinion on the science and from what ive seen from forums.

 

[Ca++]

Apprently their labels are bullshit. Ive heard this many times. All i know is ive run several bases and never had better product than flakes produces for us so ill be sticking with it. I do plan to do solution analysis.

Send some in from the bottles, if you were thinking about the tank.
The accuracy of tests gets worse with lower concentrations. A running solution is so low, it can be 100s of percent wrong. K is particularly prone to false readings, when reading solutions.

Going back a few pages, I read the suggestion of sampling from your blocks. Such data is extremely hard to work with, as it can be so wrong. The blocks should offer no real difference to the tank anyway. Unless it's stood for a while being used. K is rapidly taken though, so it's remaining quantity, would have to factor in time, as well as inaccuracies in lab reports. It becomes a science of it's own. One that nobody is chasing after, as you can't really make changes, on such a weak data footing.

I have to use tank sampling, as I can't get cannabis tissue done in the UK. It is very rough though, and really a measurement best used for irrigation timing. Maybe refill solutions, but not an entire tank. Online measurement of individual elements, to add them individually, is a machine we are not going to see. Solution measurement accuracy is too poor.

It can be best to not analyse the tank or blocks, unless you really are challenged by a problem. I would test the bottles though, because the accuracy would be much better, and some mental arithmetic can explain the tank. Let the water company explain the tap water. It's a huge barrage of tests. Some after reducing on a low heat, and there could be butter involved. Lots of blind taste testing, and the best of five. My company run two labs and an outside one for clarification. I got three reports, not one. All different. So the water report is really just looking for major headaches.


Leave tissue is where it's at. It expresses things very well.

 

[Ca++]

Show me an efficient UV LED.
I have shown what they are doing in labs, has not yet reached 10%. A huge leap in UV LED work, which Covid was pushing through. We have had this conversation, not 6 months ago. The 70% UV LED suggested then, was about 0.07%

edit: Hg=Mercury
As lights, fluorescents struck up the Hg vapour, making UV. The UV had to excite the white phosphor, to make white light. The fluorescents do much better just making the UV. Without any fluorescent coating at all. Commercial UV trials use Hg as you can make a meaningful amount of light with them.


So.. part number.

 

[Crooked8]

Send some in from the bottles, if you were thinking about the tank.
The accuracy of tests gets worse with lower concentrations. A running solution is so low, it can be 100s of percent wrong. K is particularly prone to false readings, when reading solutions.

Going back a few pages, I read the suggestion of sampling from your blocks. Such data is extremely hard to work with, as it can be so wrong. The blocks should offer no real difference to the tank anyway. Unless it's stood for a while being used. K is rapidly taken though, so it's remaining quantity, would have to factor in time, as well as inaccuracies in lab reports. It becomes a science of it's own. One that nobody is chasing after, as you can't really make changes, on such a weak data footing.

I have to use tank sampling, as I can't get cannabis tissue done in the UK. It is very rough though, and really a measurement best used for irrigation timing. Maybe refill solutions, but not an entire tank. Online measurement of individual elements, to add them individually, is a machine we are not going to see. Solution measurement accuracy is too poor.

It can be best to not analyse the tank or blocks, unless you really are challenged by a problem. I would test the bottles though, because the accuracy would be much better, and some mental arithmetic can explain the tank. Let the water company explain the tap water. It's a huge barrage of tests. Some after reducing on a low heat, and there could be butter involved. Lots of blind taste testing, and the best of five. My company run two labs and an outside one for clarification. I got three reports, not one. All different. So the water report is really just looking for major headaches.


Leave tissue is where it's at. It expresses things very well.

Always felt that tissue tests were the real ticket. I get to see what actually ends up in there. Considering rockwool is rather neutral and i irrigate pretty much every day, its always getting refreshed. Whats most important to me is whats in the tissue. Thats why we do those tests which also happen to be far less expensive than a solution test. To have my solution tested is 5x more expensive per sample. Also, with our new meter, we can see if feed is accumulating in the slabs and if they are too wet. Thats kind of enough for me. Must be why the lab never expressed a need or interest in testing the slab. Also. Lets say i do get a sample and send it, what changes in that sample by the time its tested? If it dries out? If it stays too wet? I dunno, kinda spooky to think about.

 

[greyfader]

here is a downloadable paper on mass balance principles for nutrient management.

Principles of Nutrient and Water Management for Indoor Agriculture

Mass balance principles are a cornerstone of efficient fertilizer use and can be utilized to optimize plant nutrition without discarding or leaching solution. Here, we describe the maintenance of closed hydroponic and soilless substrate systems based on mass balance. Water removed by...

www.mdpi.com

 

[weedemart]

Always felt that tissue tests were the real ticket. I get to see what actually ends up in there. Considering rockwool is rather neutral and i irrigate pretty much every day, its always getting refreshed. Whats most important to me is whats in the tissue. Thats why we do those tests which also happen to be far less expensive than a solution test. To have my solution tested is 5x more expensive per sample. Also, with our new meter, we can see if feed is accumulating in the slabs and if they are too wet. Thats kind of enough for me. Must be why the lab never expressed a need or interest in testing the slab. Also. Lets say i do get a sample and send it, what changes in that sample by the time its tested? If it dries out? If it stays too wet? I dunno, kinda spooky to think about.

Tissue analysis is only half of the answer. Your test doesnt tell ya if its shortage or lockout/antagonism. It tells you if plant tissue is deficient.

If you knew exactly what you had in your feed at that moment you would know that there was enought potassium. when I say take a sample... Dont take a rockwool sample lol.

Take a seringes , and take a sample off the slab. send the seringes to the lab. it should not change that much, you are using chemical nutrients.

 

[Rocket Soul]

Show me an efficient UV LED.
I have shown what they are doing in labs, has not yet reached 10%. A huge leap in UV LED work, which Covid was pushing through. We have had this conversation, not 6 months ago. The 70% UV LED suggested then, was about 0.07%

edit: Hg=Mercury
As lights, fluorescents struck up the Hg vapour, making UV. The UV had to excite the white phosphor, to make white light. The fluorescents do much better just making the UV. Without any fluorescent coating at all. Commercial UV trials use Hg as you can make a meaningful amount of light with them.


So.. part number.

Why not follow the link prawn supplied? It really is that easy if you want to convince yourself of over 10% efficient leds. Theyre already at over 50% at high currents and they are right there on the very same page... Its literally just a click away...

Not sure which one gla used, i imagine its of a higher bin. But last time you pulled this uv stat out i remember it was quite an old source and a lot further down towards 300 nm, its been quite some time since. Check around 385-405, those are the most efficient diodes in the uv range.

 

[Crooked8]

Tissue analysis is only half of the answer. Your test doesnt tell ya if its shortage or lockout/antagonism. It tells you if plant tissue is deficient.

If you knew exactly what you had in your feed at that moment you would know that there was enought potassium. when I say take a sample... Dont take a rockwool sample lol.

Take a seringes , and take a sample off the slab. send the seringes to the lab. it should not change that much, you are using chemical nutrients.

Ive tested our solution coming from the slab and exactly whats in the slab. Hell i fully irrigate and check our solution daily. Nothing swings or goes crazy at all. Again if what you were saying was happening, was happening, id have problems i dont have. I dont have an issue with K anymore and havent in 3 runs.

And say what you want but the solution test is 500$. Tissue tests are 100$ so whether or not you think it should be something, its not lol. You also said calcium deficiency is a myth, cannabis doesnt need much of anything other than nitrogen and basically gave an analysis of why im experiencing antagonism when im not. Its exhausting.

I will do a solution test for my feed, but two samples, one where i irrigate my media and then remove solution directly from media i just irrigated plus a solution test seems costly and unnecessary in rockwool. Id be paying 1000$ to find out the slabs hold some extra feed, which they do, and i can see it on my pulse meter. When that happens, i can reduce my feed for the following irrigation and correct it.

 

[weedemart]

what coming out is not whats inside the slab the leachate is not significant and should not be considered.

I forget to say. when you take a slab sample , take it before the next irrigation, not just after. Why? because of the chemical dynamic that happen in the rootzone after an irrigation, you want to know at55-75% whc.

calcium deficiency is a myth in hydroponic because there plenty calcium in most hydroponics nutrients. And calcium uptake depend on VPD so it's not a competitive ion. What happen when you get calcium def; and once again , its a lockout, its because your VPD is at one of the extreme , or again you have antagonism with a more competive ion;ammonium, potassium or magnesium but I dont see that often except for large amount of ammonium. even sodium can create problem with calcium

 

[Ca++]

Tissue analysis is only half of the answer. Your test doesnt tell ya if its shortage or lockout/antagonism. It tells you if plant tissue is deficient.

If you knew exactly what you had in your feed at that moment you would know that there was enought potassium. when I say take a sample... Dont take a rockwool sample lol.

Take a seringes , and take a sample off the slab. send the seringes to the lab. it should not change that much, you are using chemical nutrients.

What could antagonise K, and not show in the tissue sample

There was a little showing, and spoke of at the time. It was addressed in the remedy. I don't think crooked8 wants to get any deeper into this conversation though, until you show us reason to.

 

[weedemart]

And short story about nutrients.

In the legacy era , the ratio for NPK from the broscience guys were 3-1-2veg , 1-3-2bloom. I will skip the why. Just look at what kinds of elemental content it gave you for fun. both at same concentration.Notice the shift in Nitrogen. Notice most element stay the same. And more important notice thats nitrogen and calcium goes hand in hand.Theres a reason for this. the only valid source of calcium is calcium nitrate. If you lack of calcium you lack of nitrogen.

 

[weedemart]

What could antagonise K, and not show in the tissue sample

There was a little showing, and spoke of at the time. It was addressed in the remedy. I don't think crooked8 wants to get any deeper into this conversation though, until you show us reason to.

ammonium. plant cant regulate ammonium uptake they are forced to swallow it.