LED and BUD QUALITY

[dogzter]

I'm waiting for people with the ultimate experience to answer aswell as you can see, but they are very silent, maybe I touched a soft spot (like leds)
Its known making good fem seeds is not easy as regs, not in terms of how they end up, but just reversing and extracting very low qty of pollen if any, resulting in low seed count.
That was the system once, at least to some extent, the market was smaller and it was more affordable as not many seed buyers were on the market at those times.
When it became legal in so many places, people saw just one thing, money.
And that's how it is until this day.

As a "breeder" pov, why struggle with reversing and getting low seed count or not at all, when you can just pick any random male, tell us it's good because this and that (again not one of the stuff he say are valid for any smoker as we don't smoke males)
And make thousands of seeds with it and sell them for 100 usd a pack, hmmmm sounds like money to me !
Don't complain, they let you "tap" their genetic pool for that 100 usd haha

Like everything else in life, either you push for qty over quality or the opposite.
Its apparent everywhere the most choose the first option, because I don't see any other reason to sell regs to the everyday smoker and if any seed maker or breeder is willing to challenge this argument I would gladly love to hear about it from hes experience.

Show me what you made?

 

[TrifektaSeeds]

I shared my experience, I'm waiting for other people to share theirs, until someone is willing to challenge our words, I don't see what a couple of seeds or flowers pics would help here buddy, sorry.
When I said pov of a breeder I didn't me either for clearing purposes, just trying to think how it looks from a business perspective, to me it's obvious 95% will choose the easy money option, if you think otherwise it's ok with me also

 

[dogzter]

I shared my experience, I'm waiting for other people to share theirs, until someone is willing to challenge our words, I don't see what a couple of seeds or flowers pics would help here buddy, sorry.
When I said pov of a breeder I didn't me either for clearing purposes, just trying to think how it looks from a business perspective, to me it's obvious 95% will choose the easy money option, if you think otherwise it's ok with me also

I shared my experience, I'm waiting for other people to share theirs, until someone is willing to challenge our words, I don't see what a couple of seeds or flowers pics would help here buddy, sorry.
When I said pov of a breeder I didn't me either for clearing purposes, just trying to think how it looks from a business perspective, to me it's obvious 95% will choose the easy money option, if you think otherwise it's ok with me also

Well I made these.

I made tens of thousands of these seeds over the years.
Sent them all over the world.
All regular no selfing or fems.
I would love to see what you're doing.

 

[greyfader]

Whats the difference between seed making and "breeding"?

breeders have a thorough understanding of plant genetics and Mendelian inheritance.

 

[Rocket Soul]

Whats the difference between seed making and "breeding"?

A breeder is really trying to make and combine genes, the seeds created is like a byproduct but also the carrier of said genes.
A seedmaker well he makes seeds, either by selfing the plant or using pollen from another male. A breeder knows very keenly the importance of having good male plants to cross with, a seedmaker is less dependant on males.

 

[Rocket Soul]

Well I made these.
View attachment 18960486 View attachment 18960487 View attachment 18960488 View attachment 18960489
I made tens of thousands of these seeds over the years.
Sent them all over the world.
All regular no selfing or fems.
I would love to see what you're doing.

Very, very nice buds, kudos
Can we hear something about the buds/plants?

 

[dogzter]

Understanding something is great however its the end result that matters eh?
I have seen a lot of people claim to understand yet have yet to see a.single strain that is actually a strain not a cut.
Cherry tomatoes make cherry tomatoes always.
Show me the consistent from seed strain all this understanding has produced?

 

[gmanwho]

That's interesting use of the carrots. I like that.

'turn up the wick' is a very old saying, meaning turn up the light, from the days of oil burners.
Giving my age away lol

Late for work..

ahhh, the old candle power. crazy to think of where we are now, and knowing that candlepower became a unit of light measurement.

well I didnt go over 80% as I was hesitant from what i saw at first. 3rd run with leds. It was also the first run with a soil mix i just made. Wasn't really sure on nute availability out of the gate. And i had to supplement with some jacks nute feedings at first. I was pushing them with to much ppfd at first, then i backed off.

I was loosing leaf color to early, and didn't want to loose any more. So once i corrected the leaf color i thought it would be best to stay in the upper green before i was redlining.

I feel that leds are like putting a high rpm F1 motor in a Prius. Getting all the variables lined up and keeping the plants on the track to the finish line. Hopefully each lap getting better an better, not ending up crashed into a wall, walking away with a respectable crop

I usually try to get the lights like 12-16 inch away from tops. With the basic idea of inverse square law in mind, i try to find that happy zone where i keep my lights height close enough with a good ppfd, so i can run a lower watt.

And hopefully not burn or crisp leaf up by pushing to hard, or cook off any volitle compounds. I have no market for lower medium quality.

Weed prices are the only thing going down while eveything else is going up. i think it cost me now 0.26 now for elec supply & delivery of 1kwh.

I dont know, keeps it interesting.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

Cool, 3 comments from you, still nothing, and you have 30 years of breeding ? Maybe you have 30 years of seed making and you got confused ?
You are very mysterious my friend so allow me to speculate while you write posts with 1 word and we keep this going for entertainment sake.
But it's funny how people will try to contradict you with nothing to back up what they say.
I'm still waiting for you to tell me, as a 30 year breeder what do we need males for and what are the traits in them that smokers are after ?

Again, not trying to be disrespectful, I'm trying to find out what does your Yes means ?
As a long time breeder (you didn't say of what ?) u should have some insights in this topic, or am I wrong ?

You are disrespectful, you must do it subconsciously.

You should be aware of a couple of other things while I'm at it...

Evolution is real.

Photobleaching is real, and not caused by heat.

My initial response to you was that people do care where their corn comes from that goes into their whisky.

Just because you can't get your head around something doesn't mean that it's not true.

 

[Rocket Soul]

ahhh, the old candle power. crazy to think of where we are now, and knowing that candlepower became a unit of light measurement.

well I didnt go over 80% as I was hesitant from what i saw at first. 3rd run with leds. It was also the first run with a soil mix i just made. Wasn't really sure on nute availability out of the gate. And i had to supplement with some jacks nute feedings at first. I was pushing them with to much ppfd at first, then i backed off.

I was loosing leaf color to early, and didn't want to loose any more. So once i corrected the leaf color i thought it would be best to stay in the upper green before i was redlining.

I feel that leds are like putting a high rpm F1 motor in a Prius. Getting all the variables lined up and keeping the plants on the track to the finish line. Hopefully each lap getting better an better, not ending up crashed into a wall, walking away with a respectable crop

I usually try to get the lights like 12-16 inch away from tops. With the basic idea of inverse square law in mind, i try to find that happy zone where i keep my lights height close enough with a good ppfd, so i can run a lower watt.

And hopefully not burn or crisp leaf up by pushing to hard, or cook off any volitle compounds. I have no market for lower medium quality.

Weed prices are the only thing going down while eveything else is going up. i think it cost me now 0.26 now for elec supply & delivery of 1kwh.

I dont know, keeps it interesting.

The inverse square law applies to omni directional point light which can expand limitless. An array of mid power leds, especially if its in a reflective tent doesnt really work like that, its hundreds of crosslighting point lights.
If you have a single cob grow youll be close to inverse square law if youre in an open space.

Youre better of getting a lux meter for this

 

[Hiddenjems]

A breeder is really trying to make and combine genes, the seeds created is like a byproduct but also the carrier of said genes.
A seedmaker well he makes seeds, either by selfing the plant or using pollen from another male. A breeder knows very keenly the importance of having good male plants to cross with, a seedmaker is less dependant on males.

A breeder has a final objective at the end of a multi generational project. A seedmaker sells crosses of popular strains.

 

[hillbil]

GENERATIONAL

 

[Prawn Connery]

Well I made these.
View attachment 18960486 View attachment 18960487 View attachment 18960488 View attachment 18960489

And I made sweet love to my wife

These aren't mine, but it's from a clone I gave him under my lights and grown in living soil of all things.

I thought I'd get us back on to the LED quality theme. Check out the side lights.

 

[Prawn Connery]

You are disrespectful, you must do it subconsciously.

You should be aware of a couple of other things while I'm at it...

Evolution is real.

Photobleaching is real, and not caused by heat.

My initial response to you was that people do care where their corn comes from that goes into their whisky.

Just because you can't get your head around something doesn't mean that it's not true.

Beware the man with one gun. And few words

 

[CharlesU Farley]

A breeder is really trying to make and combine genes, the seeds created is like a byproduct but also the carrier of said genes.
A seedmaker well he makes seeds, either by selfing the plant or using pollen from another male. A breeder knows very keenly the importance of having good male plants to cross with, a seedmaker is less dependant on males.

I've been doing an NL IBL for many decades now and I feel just like Nevil did, if you're not working with at least a thousand plants, you can't really say you're a _breeder_. I always get a chuckle out of people looking for a "pheno" in a 10 plant tent. That's one of the reasons why I never use the term breeder. I consider myself a cannabis developer.

Seedmaker, pollen chucker, seed slinger, they all represent the same thing to me... hacks, doing it just to make money.

A week or so ago I started a thread titled, "Show Your Studs" and posted this pic:

Creeperspark was the only one who responded, so that should tell you how many "breeders" we have here on IC.

 

[CannaT]

And I made sweet love to my wife

These aren't mine, but it's from a clone I gave him under my lights and grown in living soil of all things.

I thought I'd get us back on to the LED quality theme. Check out the side lights.

View attachment 18960525

View attachment 18960526

View attachment 18960523

View attachment 18960524

View attachment 18960527

View attachment 18960522

Out of entire light you have how much % you got IR there.
I will try now with 12% to se how it change final product compared to visible light only.

SUN IS 50/50 In future I plan to make mini grow one sog plant with small board that is like that 50/50 visible light IR diodes.
Just to see how it works.

Im in searching of % of IR that will give more SC compounds that are on hps or outdoor buds level.

 

[Ca++]

If I cross two different gene pools, I'm not breeding. What I produce, is not proven stable. It's just a cross. A mongrel.
Talking stable, by getting your two best of the same thing and aiming to repeat them, you are breeding. Thoroughbred comes to mind (that's the stable bit)

Multiple generations might be involved, but in essence, just one repeat is breeding. The multiple but is often needed though, to get it right.

I may know I want a seed that is half kush and half afghan. I can't call the cross breeding though. I'm not making more of the same. I am crossing. Once I have my goal, and I use two of the same pool to repeat them, I am breeding.


IMO anyway.
We could just google..

 

[CannaT]

I've been doing an NL IBL for many decades now and I feel just like Nevil did, if you're not working with at least a thousand plants, you can't really say you're a _breeder_. I always get a chuckle out of people looking for a "pheno" in a 10 plant tent. That's one of the reasons why I never use the term breeder. I consider myself a cannabis developer.

Seedmaker, pollen chucker, seed slinger, they all represent the same thing to me... hacks, doing it just to make money.

A week or so ago I started a thread titled, "Show Your Studs" and posted this pic:

View attachment 18960529


Creeperspark was the only one who responded, so that should tell you how many "breeders" we have here on IC.

For breeding cannabis you need alot of money I concluded with my last Sensi regs gear that in fact there is no improvment in genetics that Sam brought to Netherlands...there is nothing New..even Sensi hybrids from 95-04 what were developed there is no improvement.
Compared to old original stock....

Most people these days are in ligue of seed producers more than breeders.
Just everybody look things he do different.
Some are doing it for the money only,some people think that they do some sacred or magic work...in whole both are doing the same things.

 

[CharlesU Farley]

I thought I'd get us back on to the LED quality theme. Check out the side lights.

Thread drift is subtle, isn't it?

I can't believe the LED / bud quality question is still even debated these days, and I'm an old fuck. When temperature and humidity are taken out of the equation, as they should be if you're comparing light quality, light is light and physics is repeatable... and no _quality_ is lost when properly using LEDs, compared to HPS/MH or natural sunshine for that matter.

Reminds me of the HPS vs. MH and organic vs. chemical fertilizer debates in the 90s. History doesn't repeat, but it damn sure rhymes.

 

[Prawn Connery]

Out of entire light you have how much % you got IR there.
I will try now with 12% to se how it change final product compared to visible light only.

SUN IS 50/50 In future I plan to make mini grow one sog plant with small board that is like that 50/50 visible light IR diodes.
Just to see how it works.

Im in searching of % of IR that will give more SC compounds that are on hps or outdoor buds level.

It's actually Far Red, not Infrared, and it makes up about 25% of sunlight. Far Red is nominally defined as 700-800nm, but the Emerson Effect peaks at around 720nm and most shade avoidance (and Emerson) effects are triggered below 750nm. The main LED lights have 10% Far Red.

The side lights in the photos are a mix of PC Red (broad-spectrum red) and 4000K white.

Here is the PC Red spectrum

And the 4000K CRI90 spectrum

And combined