LED and BUD QUALITY

[Hiddenjems]

Yeah quality for me is effect first, taste 2nd, smell third.
And by quality I mean trichomes.
Quality of grow is a different aspect.
I'm not a yield chaser aswell but it's an important parameter although last

My “angle” if you will is trying to squeeze yield out of the most potent 8 week or less strains I can find.

That’s what they like here. An ex junkie or meth head will never come back if you sell them the finest 16 week sativa. Not what they’re after.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

Do people care how someone grows the corn that end up as their whisky ?

Yes.

You should get some experience under your belt.

Start breeding.

 

[Hammerhead]

Quality is not something that fits the same for all. Whatever you like is all that matters.

 

[Rocket Soul]

I'm with you on those environment changes, they will manifest more in the density, budding, weight etc...
For me the effect was still the same after a shitty grow, maybe less powerful terps like you say but still same.
That's why I follow nature, and change conditions when I'm growing, from high heat and high humidity in veg and start of flower, finishing with a cold and dry as possible VPD.
Its hard no doubt as you need to introduce dehumidifier and make my ac work hard but it's the best way for high quality without losing so much weight on the way there.

Seems like youre either contradicting yourself or more likely we have have a different definition of quality; im leaning towards the second
Youre growing for personal stash, right? Sorry if im assuming.... If youre growing for comercial density definitely IS part of quality, nobody wants to buy fluffy bud no matter the high. What is your definition of quality? In fact im surprised that we are over 100pages in to this thread and nobody seemed to have figured out if we are all talking about the same thing, lol.
As far as comercial around my end in Spain the factors are:
- Density, or maybe better said hard bud- as in if you press the bud how hard does it feel? Density is really another thing; its weight/volume. HPS (grown right) makes big hard buds; but they are generally not as dense as well grown led buds; they are lighter per volume and tend to lose more weight in drying. Seems to be related to infra red part of the spectrum, it bulks the bud with higher water content than led buds. To see this yourself is easy if you have led and hps grown weed: measure up a pound of bud of each and check which bag is bigger; the bigger one will be HPS qnd is less dense (although it may still be hard).
- smell, how much and what type smell.
- taste, both flavor profile as wells free from harshening factors: nute taste/well flushed and properly cured with no chlorophyll taste.
- visual aspect- how much it shimmers of tricomes, both on the outside aswell as the inside. Color may factor in aswell, seems like purples/pinks etc have some novelty factor. Also if your bud isnt properly cured and still quite green is a minus
- the high - how high you get and what type of high
- objective metric such as cannabinoid testing: thc % etc
- bud size: a bit of an outlier since some buyers like them big and chunky, +2g buds ok, while others want 1 g buds, no more no less.
- texture, indoor/outdoor. Outdoor seems to usually have a slightly harder texture than say hps grown bud. Personally i prefer outdoor (smell/flavor/high) but a nice HPS grown but which just turns to powder with light crumbling is also great.
- theres also a few factors that arent related to the grow process such as trim quality, machine trimmed or by hand, how hard you trim down loose stuff etc

The one factor that doesnt seem all that important here is how it burns - nobody seems to be looking for that white ash some put a lot of importance in relating to flush and hot media.

Most of these factors definitely WILL be affected by environment and light source.

As for contradicting yourself: if environment does affect quality then why do you need a cold and dry finish? It wont really help you with yield to go down in temps and if it dont matter for quality what so ever why spend the extra power on it, along with the dollar for equipment? It doesnt seem like you have thought thru your original statement really.


Not saying genetics wont matter but you have to remember that genetics isnt really an ikea step by step blueprint blueprint for the plant, its more like an algorithm: genes need to be triggered to express themselves and they are triggered by various things but mostly by the environment. Genetic gices the potential, bad growing and wrong environment will chip away at the potential

 

[Rocket Soul]

I think the “quality” definition can be very broad as well. Around here “quality” is when a joint actuality gets you high for more than 30-45 minutes. How much it takes to make weight is not really relevant.

No offense but that seems like a low bar...

If i smoke a jay of almost any weed around here American style/pure bud i will be high for over 45 mins and i smoke everyday.

 

[Ca++]

We may need to define 'high' for some people

I'm not drunk. Hand me the keys. I keep dropping them.


Bag appeal isn't any use, unless it's still in the bag. Yet bag appeal is usually the starting point of any assessment. Usually before checking it's had enough pgr's to build a wall with it. If it's outdoor, just put it back, and look disgusted. Only then can you look at anything that matters.

 

[TrifektaSeeds]

Yes.

You should get some experience under your belt.

Start breeding.

Thanks for all the details sir, you have so much knowledge, lol
Silence is gold, ever heard about it ?
But I'm still waiting, as I've never heard no one care about that, just the end product.
I don't care about it also in weed, just the end product.
If you breed for anything than effect, taste, smell, you are in the wrong business.

 

[TrifektaSeeds]

As for contradicting yourself: if environment does affect quality then why do you need a cold and dry finish? It wont really help you with yield to go down in temps and if it dont matter for quality what so ever why spend the extra power on it, along with the dollar for equipment? It doesnt seem like you have thought thru your original statement really.

It effects it, to a small degree, it won't be heaven or hell if you stick to a cold dry finish or a std finish, genetics will determine if you have a good smoke in terms of effects, that's all, environment wont determine if a strain is good or not.

Not saying genetics wont matter but you have to remember that genetics isnt really an ikea step by step blueprint blueprint for the plant, its more like an algorithm: genes need to be triggered to express themselves and they are triggered by various things but mostly by the environment. Genetic gices the potential, bad growing and wrong environment will chip away at the potential

I never saw this, like I said grew my cheese clone poorly, still the smoke was fire.
It was off in the density and yield sure, but those are the last things I'm after.

And yes quality for us is not the same, probably why it's gone so down hill.
We here don't care about fluffy or dense, we care about smoking the damn thing, hell, I don't even smoke flowers but oil and dry sift most, so what do I care about those ?
In commercial ops it's different and I welcome your parameters

 

[mean mr.mustard]

Thanks for all the details sir, you have so much knowledge, lol
Silence is gold, ever heard about it ?
But I'm still waiting, as I've never heard no one care about that, just the end product.
I don't care about it also in weed, just the end product.
If you breed for anything than effect, taste, smell, you are in the wrong business.

Thirty years of breeding.

 

[TrifektaSeeds]

And not one comment, ideas, counter arguments ?
Share please, saying yes and going away doesn't add merit to your posts, no disrespect of course.

 

[Rocket Soul]

It effects it, to a small degree, it won't be heaven or hell if you stick to a cold dry finish or a std finish, genetics will determine if you have a good smoke in terms of effects, that's all, environment wont determine if a strain is good or not.

Fair dues but you realize we are talking about bud quality, not strain quality?

I never saw this, like I said grew my cheese clone poorly, still the smoke was fire.
It was off in the density and yield sure, but those are the last things I'm after.

For being based on growing one cut youre making some very broad statements that go counter to botany, epigenetics and general grower consensus. Maybe your cheese was somewhat of a fluke, it happens as well, lucky to find such a thing and hope you still got it. But genetics dont generally work that way. Environment can even cause hereditary changes in a plant even without changing the genetics, this is called epigenetics which is how the environment turn on or off genes and their expression, even if the DNA still keeps the same.
But i do agree on one thing, some strains are more finicky and hard to get to shine while some seem to be more consistent in how they flower from one grow to another, i guess more like a spectrum than absolutes.

 

[Rocket Soul]

We may need to define 'high' for some people

I'm not drunk. Hand me the keys. I keep dropping them.


Bag appeal isn't any use, unless it's still in the bag. Yet bag appeal is usually the starting point of any assessment. Usually before checking it's had enough pgr's to build a wall with it. If it's outdoor, just put it back, and look disgusted. Only then can you look at anything that matters.

Youre in the UK right? Dont blame you for dissing on outdoors, never had anything decent from the outside over there.
You dont really have the climate or the elevation over there to do it; you want to be around 1000m elevation or more, sunny of course, and warm enough at elevation for the plant to thrive.

If you have the conditions id recommend anyone to take their indoor cultivar and try it outside to see their full potential. It will look and feel a bit shittier but high and smell improves incredibly.

 

[TrifektaSeeds]

Fair dues but you realize we are talking about bud quality, not strain quality?

For being based on growing one cut youre making some very broad statements that go counter to botany, epigenetics and general grower consensus. Maybe your cheese was somewhat of a fluke, it happens as well, lucky to find such a thing and hope you still got it. But genetics dont generally work that way. Environment can even cause hereditary changes in a plant even without changing the genetics, this is called epigenetics which is how the environment turn on or off genes and their expression, even if the DNA still keeps the same.
But i do agree on one thing, some strains are more finicky and hard to get to shine while some seem to be more consistent in how they flower from one grow to another, i guess more like a spectrum than absolutes.

Your make speculation and interpret it, that's not very nice of you my friend, even though I don't take it to heart

Bud quality that the op meant is the finished flowers and how they smoke, not the leaves of plants, you agree right ?
I'm the first that agree that even the slightest change in environment will have an impact, but in the realm of bud quality, it will be more in the aspects of growing, less in the finished product.
That's the results I saw after running my cheese cut several times, sometimes dialed in and sometimes not, smoking it was fire both cases, but other growing aspects were different, not near a level that indicate any change beyond slight variation in terps or density / growth pattern.
To be more honest, I'm so high I forgot wtf we were even talking about and I need to go read the last pages again

 

[mean mr.mustard]

And not one comment, ideas, counter arguments ?
Share please, saying yes and going away doesn't add merit to your posts, no disrespect of course.

One answer, one comment, and one idea.

Don't be disrespectful and it won't come across that way.

 

[Ca++]

Youre in the UK right? Dont blame you for dissing on outdoors, never had anything decent from the outside over there.
You dont really have the climate or the elevation over there to do it; you want to be around 1000m elevation or more, sunny of course, and warm enough at elevation for the plant to thrive.

If you have the conditions id recommend anyone to take their indoor cultivar and try it outside to see their full potential. It will look and feel a bit shittier but high and smell improves incredibly.

Oh, I was generalising buddy. I may have done 50 outdoor plots, over the years. I always have some around me. It may not be as strong, but I smoke neat anyway. I appreciate the wider ranging effects the same plants have, under the sun, beside indoors.
The number of people that won't try it though, is just snobbery beyond belief. I have had people cross their arms and just not take part, as they know I always have indoor also. It's often the same people who like PRG weed (brick weed), because you can stand on it almost. Just no hope for them. It's a recognised sub-type of smoker though. They just buy the latest names, and have no place in my social set.

 

[Rocket Soul]

Oh, I was generalising buddy. I may have done 50 outdoor plots, over the years. I always have some around me. It may not be as strong, but I smoke neat anyway. I appreciate the wider ranging effects the same plants have, under the sun, beside indoors.
The number of people that won't try it though, is just snobbery beyond belief. I have had people cross their arms and just not take part, as they know I always have indoor also. It's often the same people who like PRG weed (brick weed), because you can stand on it almost. Just no hope for them. It's a recognised sub-type of smoker though. They just buy the latest names, and have no place in my social set

Agree, i did some cheap hazey autos this summer, wasnt the biggest high or anything, some buds were fluffy AF: not marketable ever anywhere. But that smell; like walking into Sephora, you get hit by a wall of haze smell. The high was not bigg but it was like more wide or full than our indoor so for a while i would just mix half and half.

 

[Ca++]

Fuller, yes. I don't believe in a lot of lighting hocus pocus, but it's a much more rounded package outdoors.
We get a much wider range of climatic conditions outdoors. Days of beating sun. Moments of cloud. Rain ffs. Different day/night temperature differentials, by the hour. Tapering seasons, and I guess cooler coloured light towards the end of the days. So many reasons to promote different growth patterns. While indoor, for me, it's day or night. With targets for each, that don't have long transition times. No shocks or surprises. Altogether more repetitive.

Or perhaps it's just the fresh air. My home produces combustion byproducts, and the only seasonal decay is in my kitchen bin. The occasion banana might offer some ethylene, but they are not seasonal changes.

Perhaps one day we will find differences worth mimicking indoors. Just to stay on topic

 

[TrifektaSeeds]

One answer, one comment, and one idea.

Don't be disrespectful and it won't come across that way.

Cool, 3 comments from you, still nothing, and you have 30 years of breeding ? Maybe you have 30 years of seed making and you got confused ?
You are very mysterious my friend so allow me to speculate while you write posts with 1 word and we keep this going for entertainment sake.
But it's funny how people will try to contradict you with nothing to back up what they say.
I'm still waiting for you to tell me, as a 30 year breeder what do we need males for and what are the traits in them that smokers are after ?

Again, not trying to be disrespectful, I'm trying to find out what does your Yes means ?
As a long time breeder (you didn't say of what ?) u should have some insights in this topic, or am I wrong ?

 

[dogzter]

Cool, 3 comments from you, still nothing, and you have 30 years of breeding ? Maybe you have 30 years of seed making and you got confused ?
You are very mysterious my friend so allow me to speculate while you write posts with 1 word and we keep this going for entertainment sake.
But it's funny how people will try to contradict you with nothing to back up what they say.
I'm still waiting for you to tell me, as a 30 year breeder what do we need males for and what are the traits in them that smokers are after ?

Again, not trying to be disrespectful, I'm trying to find out what does your Yes means ?
As a long time breeder (you didn't say of what ?) u should have some insights in this topic, or am I wrong ?

Whats the difference between seed making and "breeding"?

 

[TrifektaSeeds]

I'm waiting for people with the ultimate experience to answer aswell as you can see, but they are very silent, maybe I touched a soft spot (like leds)
Its known making good fem seeds is not easy as regs, not in terms of how they end up, but just reversing and extracting very low qty of pollen if any, resulting in low seed count.
That was the system once, at least to some extent, the market was smaller and it was more affordable as not many seed buyers were on the market at those times.
When it became legal in so many places, people saw just one thing, money.
And that's how it is until this day.

As a "breeder" pov, why struggle with reversing and getting low seed count or not at all, when you can just pick any random male, tell us it's good because this and that (again not one of the stuff he say are valid for any smoker as we don't smoke males)
And make thousands of seeds with it and sell them for 100 usd a pack, hmmmm sounds like money to me !
Don't complain, they let you "tap" their genetic pool for that 100 usd haha

Like everything else in life, either you push for qty over quality or the opposite.
Its apparent everywhere the most choose the first option, because I don't see any other reason to sell regs to the everyday smoker and if any seed maker or breeder is willing to challenge this argument I would gladly love to hear about it from hes experience.