LED and BUD QUALITY

[Prawn Connery]

I dunno...

Sht is hilarious

Are those shouting daily from the rooftops, @Crooked8 @Prawn Connery actually selling any of these sht ht amazing led lights many people are yet to witness?

Soon come eh

If you read back through some of my posts you will see that yes I have designed and built all the LEDs that I use. If you have never seen them in real life then that is because we only make limited numbers sand we mainly sell in Australia. Although we have exported quite a few to Europe and North America (and even South America).

I'm still not sure what the point of your post is meant to be.

 

[Prawn Connery]

Just what you post over the last year.... constant led love support. Four or five posts a day, quick to respond, like a dedicated salesman trying to hype a product.

Dunno wtf you posted past that, i dont care either. I been browsing these boards for decades and i dont remember much of you if at all.

From my point of view i see leds being taken up more and more especially by commercial growers and that correlates with the race to rock bottom in quality and price of bud available.

It is hard now to find decent hid grown bud on the street.

Why wouldn't we post in the LED section – isn't that what it's for?

I don't think you realise that a lot of experienced growers grew for many years under HPS, MH, CMH, fluoro and other lights before we made the switch to LED.

I'm not sure how much experience you have growing under LED – it doesn't sound like a lot, if any – so the people who have grown under all these lights at least have experience with them and know what they are talking about when they comment.

Besides, what you say simply doesn't make any sense. If more and more commercial operations are taking up LED, then why would any of them sacrifice yield and quality if HPS is so good? That's just not logical.

You talk about HPS quality, but you never quantify it. Indeed, most people who claim HPS bud is "better" never provide objective proof – it's just their opinion. Like yours.

My opinion is I have grown and smoked some of the best weed in the past 30 years under LED. You expect me to say that because I'm an "LED salesman", but again you forget the only reason I have LEDs is because I started experimenting with them six years ago and I liked the results, so I started DIYing LED strips and boards before I decided to design my own – because I thought I could design and build a better than what was on the market at the time.

The proof is in the results. I am trying to post up some lab reports of 24% and 25% THC buds grown under LED, but ICM is being temperamental. I'll see if I can do it later . . .

 

[exoticrobotic]

Thread occasionally reads like you get bad results with leds, you're a bad grower and should be using the led set i am 'using'.....basically an unpaid advert.

After any negative comment the thread then gets bombarded with grows from agrobar and others and the little jems of info from Ca, you and crooked8 gets lost amongst the commercial photos and the homegrower learns not as much as they could because it's so difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff.

This thread is supposed to be about led bud quality....

As long as you only say positive things....

So we have at times the situation in my opinion of basic censorship run by the led crew...

 

[exoticrobotic]

...

 

[Prawn Connery]

Thread occasionally reads like you get bad results with leds, you're a bad grower and should be using the led set i am 'using'.....basically an unpaid advert.

After any negative comment the thread then gets bombarded with grows from agrobar and others and the little jems of info from Ca, you and crooked8 gets lost amongst the commercial photos and the homegrower learns not as much as they could because it's so difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff.

This thread is supposed to be about led bud quality....

As long as you only say positive things....

So we have at times the situation in my opinion of basic censorship run by the led crew...

No-one is censoring anything. Prove it. I'm not splitting posts and I would never ask a mod to do it ether. Anyone here who knows my history knows I am most certainly anti-censorship.

The fact is, most shitty LED grows are shitty LED grows due to the grower. Juts like any other light. Simple as that.

We post photos of good LED grows to show that it can be done – otherwise who is going to believe it?

We also go out of our way to explain to people what they can do to improve, and how to address certain issues, such as lower transpiration.

All I ever see you do in this thread is talk shit about LEDs – I don't see you helping growers.

If you bars are that good, get an advert up so people can buy them and test them independently.

All these lab tests coming from the salesman dont mean shit...

We don't make bars. We have plenty of grows on Instagram you can look at if interested: https://www.instagram.com/growlightsaustralia/

If and when we advertise is up to us – not you.

I will also post the independent lab reports because, frankly, I don't care what you think, but I do care about results. And that's why we test individual spectra to see what works best. Our lights are tested by third-parties, so not only are the reports done by independent labs, the plants aren't even grown by us.

I don't expect you to appreciate any of this because while you talk, we test and provide empirical evidence. You provide opinion.

 

[Prawn Connery]

to have extra parts like 6. finger or more than 32 teeth is not a common thing.. but it happens..
it has nothing to do with evolution, it is called mutation

It has everything to do with evolution.

If 6 fingers were an advantage over 5 fingers, then that's how we would have evolved. Environment influences how genes are expressed. Environment determines which genes are successful and which aren't. Environment even provides the trigger for genetic mutation which leads evolution.

You can't have one without the other.

 

[Prawn Connery]

Electric cars much like leds are still in the hype phase and cannot compete with the combustion engine on any level of performance especially in the cold where a majority of the world lives.

The ev comparison is absolutely perfect prawn.

I don't know what planet you live on (Haha – see what I did there. OK, no-one else will get it except you and I. . . .), but EVs piss on combustion engines. Battery technology is affected by cold, but hydrogen technology is not.

Keep up with the times man!

 

[exoticrobotic]

The fact is, most shitty LED grows are shitty LED grows due to the grower. Juts like any other light. Simple as that.

I'm not so sure about that. I can grow great weed with hps and cmh and the same size buds with leds but the led buds dont get me high in a nice way, they make me angry and confrontational lol

We post photos of good LED grows to show that it can be done – otherwise who is going to believe it?

Nice one....

You said it all there really.....

 

[Prawn Connery]

I'm not so sure about that. I can grow great weed with hps and cmh and the same size buds with leds but the led buds dont get me high in a nice way, they make me angry and confrontational lol



Nice one....

You said it all there really.....

Yes, I said the obvious – confirmation bias. People like you who have not had good experiences with LEDs don't believe anyone else could have a good experience with them until someone else comes along and proves it.

If you can't grow nice weed under LED, then it may be the LED's fault. But it is more likely your fault.

I mean, how can a 20+ year HPS grower like myself grow weed under LED as good or better than anything he had grown under HPS?

Like I said earlier, your arguments are not very logical. But they are very emotional.

 

[exoticrobotic]

Like I said earlier, your arguments are not very logical. But they are very emotional.

i'm nicely mellow mate no emotions but verrry nicely medicated.

I'm sure you can grow great weed with your led units.

Maybe you can explain how they are so different to the off the shelf units?

 

[Chi13]

I just grow for myself and the quality of the high is everything to me. I don't care about yield, taste, or anything else, just the high.

I switched to LED about 5 years ago and if anything I thought the quality improved. Last year I had an outdoor clone of an indoor plant and there was little difference in the high.

The only way to tell is grow clones under the same conditions using both LED and HPS. Has anyone done this? I have, because when I switched over I was growing clones, and I thought those under LED were marginally better. Of course then it may depend on the LED as there's a huge array available. It may also depend on the variety you grow too. So many variables.

 

[Prawn Connery]

i'm nicely mellow mate no emotions but verrry nicely medicated.

I'm sure you can grow great weed with your led units.

Maybe you can explain how they are so different to the off the shelf units?

I have tried to explain a little bit in this thread. The problem is, people like you (true) have dismissed what I have said based on it being a "sales pitch".

I can tell you a few things I do when I design an LED that most other manufacturers don't. Although many of them are starting to do.

I produce a "true" full PAR spectrum LED to begin with that includes all wavelengths between 400-700nm and beyond. I use high levels of Far Red (10%) just like the sun (which is on average 25% Far Red) and I use moderate levels of UVA in the long wavelength/violet region because it has photosynthetic value as well as targeting secondary metabolites.

I don't use too much UV because UV also photo-oxidises cannabinoids, so I don't want to turn all that THCA into CBN faster than the plant can produce it.

My lights work. Have a look at the Instagram page. One of the things you'll notices is how healthy all the plants are. That is a product of a "true" full spectrum that is well-balanced in terms of RGB. Too much blue can be detrimental, and that's where a lot of cheap Chinese lights are not helping. No wonder, as the Chinese don't grow cannabis – they just copy what everyone else is doing. They do no research into cannabinoids.

 

[exoticrobotic]

I mean, how can a 20+ year HPS grower like myself grow weed under LED as good or better than anything he had grown under HPS?

You have had to make many changes and additions to your led set up before you got good results.

This implies the off the shelf unit you started with was sub par as is the case with the off the shelf unit i tried.

I got good smokeable results with the led unit plus cmh but not good enough just led alone.

But all these posts and i'm still none the wiser about leds and what my unit is missing

The only way to tell is grow clones under the same conditions using both LED and HPS. Has anyone done this?

I have but led and cmh both combined and alone. I've been growing for nearly 30 years and know how to do a side by side comparison.

Of course then it may depend on the LED as there's a huge array available. It may also depend on the variety you grow too. So many variables.

Exactly. Unfortunately not all arrays are equal.

I'd love to hear about the specific arrays people have had good results with and also those where the results were not as good as expected.

 

[exoticrobotic]

I have tried to explain a little bit in this thread. The problem is, people like you (true) have dismissed what I have said based on it being a "sales pitch".

I can tell you a few things I do when I design an LED that most other manufacturers don't. Although many of them are starting to do.

I produce a "true" full PAR spectrum LED to begin with that includes all wavelengths between 400-700nm and beyond. I use high levels of Far Red (10%) just like the sun (which is on average 25% Far Red) and I use moderate levels of UVA in the long wavelength/violet region because it has photosynthetic value as well as targeting secondary metabolites.

I don't use too much UV because UV also photo-oxidises cannabinoids, so I don't want to turn all that THCA into CBN faster than the plant can produce it.

My lights work. Have a look at the Instagram page. One of the things you'll notices is how healthy all the plants are. That is a product of a "true" full spectrum that is well-balanced in terms of RGB. Too much blue can be detrimental, and that's where a lot of cheap Chinese lights are not helping. No wonder, as the Chinese don't grow cannabis – they just copy what everyone else is doing. They do no research into cannabinoids.

Thank you for such a detailed concise post.

 

[Chi13]

I have but led and cmh both combined and alone. I've been growing for nearly 30 years and know how to do a side by side comparison.

That's great, I've been growing 45 years. I am relating my experience of also doing a side by side. If the quality wasn't there I can assure you I would go back to HPS. I still have the old HPS light. From a 400w HPS to a LED with 420w, I did not check the actual power used so just going on what info I had.

I'm not trying to pick an argument but my experience has been different to yours. What is it about the LED high that you think is less than HPS? For instance is it potency, effect, taste?

Exactly. Unfortunately not all arrays are equal.

I'd love to hear about the specific arrays people have had good results with and also those where the results were not as good as expected.

That would be interesting. Mine is pretty dated now but combination of cobs, reds, far red, and I think UV from memory.

 

[Prawn Connery]

You have had to make many changes and additions to your led set up before you got good results.

This implies the off the shelf unit you started with was sub par as is the case with the off the shelf unit i tried.

I got good smokeable results with the led unit plus cmh but not good enough just led alone.

But all these posts and i'm still none the wiser about leds and what my unit is missing



I have but led and cmh both combined and alone. I've been growing for nearly 30 years and know how to do a side by side comparison.



Exactly. Unfortunately not all arrays are equal.

I'd love to hear about the specific arrays people have had good results with and also those where the results were not as good as expected.

I started off using Samsung strips (LM281C diodes) and then I bought some limited edition HLG QB304 boards made with Nichia diodes. We were growing in a large room full of HPS at the time – I have posted the photos earlier if you want to see – and I started to notice morphogenic changes in the same clones under the different lights. The Nichia diodes (which were Optisolis) had high degrees of Far Red light (around 5%) which seemed to make the leaves bigger and the flowering process faster, with 8-week plants finishing earlier than they usually did and with the same yields.

I was also impressed with the fact we got these results using 2/3 the power. There was no obvious difference in smokeable quality, but the LED buds were a little denser than the HPS.

I also had another life working with industrial hemp farmers many years ago where I learned that THC levels would fluctuate with the UV index, and so I decided to experiment with UVB and UVA. It was after that I discovered that too much UVB could send THC levels backwards (sunlight has a very small amount of UVB compared to UVA), and that moderate amounts of UVA could be beneficial – which is what the lab tests showed.

You must remember, we did the labs tests BEFORE we built the commercial lights, not after. We used those tests to improve our product, not to sell it. Then the laboratory got busted because it is still illegal to grow and possess cannabis without a medicinal licence in Australia, so it is not easy for us to research.

 

[exoticrobotic]

What is it about the LED high that you think is less than HPS? For instance is it potency, effect, taste?

All of them.

I tried an off the shelf model 300w led. It also has 200w models available.

I found the buds less oily and less trichomes, less taste, less sulphorous tones.

Buzz was not as deep and was more two dimensional

tried it with mr nice afghhz, kryptonite abusive x bubba, sensi black domina, paradise seeds nebula and ldn lemon bag seed.

I did get great results on the plants where the cmh and led unit combined. Really great results. Shit poor yield funnily enough but very very potent.

 

[Chi13]

All of them.

I tried an off the shelf model 300w led. It also has 200w models available.

I found the buds less oily and less trichomes, less taste, less sulphorous tones.

Buzz was not as deep and was more two dimensional

tried it with mr nice afghhz, kryptonite abusive x bubba, sensi black domina, paradise seeds nebula and ldn lemon bag seed.

I did get great results on the plants where the cmh and led unit combined. Really great results. Shit poor yield funnily enough but very very potent.

Fair enough. I grow much different cannabis to that, haze and crosses, SE Asian, African, and the odd indica. We're not comparing apples to apples.

I'll keep an open mind, maybe dig out the HPS for one more go.

 

[Crooked8]

Thread occasionally reads like you get bad results with leds, you're a bad grower and should be using the led set i am 'using'.....basically an unpaid advert.

After any negative comment the thread then gets bombarded with grows from agrobar and others and the little jems of info from Ca, you and crooked8 gets lost amongst the commercial photos and the homegrower learns not as much as they could because it's so difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff.

This thread is supposed to be about led bud quality....

As long as you only say positive things....

So we have at times the situation in my opinion of basic censorship run by the led crew...

If you are referring to photos of my grow thats got nothing to do with agrobar. Its not even commercial. I just own a 10 lighter and they are agrobars. I built the whole thing, rolling benches and all. No affiliation w agrobar as a company whatsoever.

 

[CocoNut 420]

You're going think this guys
You're probably right enough!

These colour chart wheels

Hmm it won't upload?

Anyway you can use a CD to get a picture of the spectrum, it appears accurate to manufacturers specs/colour charts.

It's a prism so it's fairly logical i suspose?