Take a light from the garage and plug it into a different power supply in house or better still at another house if possible and that will rule out a problem with shed wiring .
Rather than chasing your tail thinking its the shed wiring
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LED AFTERGLOW
- Thread starter 4maggio
- Start date
Rather than chasing your tail thinking its the shed wiring
4maggio
Member
I will try the household circuit idea today. Can't get it to another house to try.. Thanks for the suggestion.
No problem ,im a sparky by trade happy to help if i can
Well you know its not your wiring ,id be contacting the supplier . The light is useless unless you are growing autos .
Ca++
Well-known member
It's always the EU guys, with the plug turned through 180 degree's. All this deep dive cable capacitance talk is nonsensed by the fact all 3 cores are tied by actual capacitors anyway. Part of the common mode choke at the drivers input.No problem ,im a sparky by trade happy to help if i can
What they need is a cheap ass contactor, that are really relays, swapping out for a double pole. Or a real contactor used, with both L&N switched. Then they get a proper full disconnect.
I reckon they would sell, but only with EU plugs.
I brought two brand new 1000w phlizon lights and both did the same thing out of the box after contacting them and a few back and forward conversations they sent 2 replacement drivers 1 for each fitting (fittings had 3 drivers in each) i replaced the faulty drivers and the problem was rectified .
Yes putting a contactor on the supply will work but it doesnt address the fault with the light you pay good money for .
Ca++
Well-known member
I guess I could help out, but it's not cheap, making the cheap stuff. It becomes uneconomical. Especially if you can get support from the manufacturer, for free.
I used to make boxes for 16 lights. Non ever failed, to this day. The boards people buy now are not fit for purpose, with exposed switchgear. Usually needing to be hard wired in, but with no cable support offered. Often using a bit of flex to the timer, which might be protected by a fuse that just laughs at it. Junk, the lot of it.
I made water proof boxes that just plug in. I have no idea what these people are thinking, making big wooden boards that need an electrician.
I stopped before LEDs came around. I actually have no idea how hard they are to switch. Nothing like the HIDs I'm sure. Do we even need contactors anymore? I use them out of habit, but it would be interesting to hear what people are switching, with basic plug-in timers. More than 600w I'm sure.
I used to make boxes for 16 lights. Non ever failed, to this day. The boards people buy now are not fit for purpose, with exposed switchgear. Usually needing to be hard wired in, but with no cable support offered. Often using a bit of flex to the timer, which might be protected by a fuse that just laughs at it. Junk, the lot of it.
I made water proof boxes that just plug in. I have no idea what these people are thinking, making big wooden boards that need an electrician.
I stopped before LEDs came around. I actually have no idea how hard they are to switch. Nothing like the HIDs I'm sure. Do we even need contactors anymore? I use them out of habit, but it would be interesting to hear what people are switching, with basic plug-in timers. More than 600w I'm sure.
I think most use a controller and the data cable and if theres more than 1 light they daisy link the light control (data cable) .
Thats the way i run mine plugged into power 24/7 and controlled via controller (dimming ,sunset features, etc)
Ca++
Well-known member
Oh I see. You were not turning them off by disconnecting them from the power. The issue here could be complex. Some drivers are the simple 0-10v or PWM, with a drop-out level. Others don't have the drop-out. Others are dali, which can be treated much the same way, but are also digitally controlled. Things like double tap, your dead. I actually changed some variable resistors this month, which were getting corroded and unsteady. The lights behaviour actually changed. What I did was like for like, yet afterwards, the lights would drop out at a low setting. They now have a switch on threshold, and a slightly lower switch off. The first vr's must of not tracked down fully. Yet, the lights switch off, at what was minimum before. TBH I have just shrugged it off, as it's my kit anyway. I'm not sure a customer would be happy their dimming was now also a power switch.
I can see how changing drivers mid production cycle, could bring unexpected results. Sometimes we just chase price, and the finer details are hidden deep in the paperwork.
It's embarrassing for them though lol
Hiddenjems
Well-known member
You can’t get many watts through a daisy chain as most outlets are rated for 15a.
I run dpdt mechanical relays in a sealed box.
The power supply isnt daisy chained only the data cable controlling on and off
Ca++
Well-known member
He's not daisy chaining the power. He's daisy chaining the data cable. It's a different topic really. He had drivers that were not designed to turn off, in the manner his controls wanted them to. Some drivers dim right down, and never go off through dimming control, but might with a double tap. Other drivers dim down until they hit the 'off' threshold. Upon which they actually switch off. His lights used a mix of different drivers, which was never going to work with his one single control method.
Did you know the 20 amp 'finder' relay, is better suited to HID switching, than the 30 amp. The 30 has a longer armature, leading to a faster moving contact at the moment of connection. That is good for most loads, that weld on contact. HIDs weld at disconnect, due to their reactive nature. The long armature offers the contact point more leverage to stay closed.
It's actually unlikely that anybody making switchgear knows that. The 'finder' guy was musing this over with me, and he sits on the european board that decides how to classify switchgear for engineers. Philips arranged the call, as I had exhausted their knowledge. Ultimately the relay wasn't suited to the application, as outside influences couldn't be calculated. Things like distance from the substation, but also banks of capacitors that might be in other lighting nearby. They can act as your power supply, for a moment. So if they work, that's great. But they might not when you move. Though with LED, it likely works just fine
Correct i wasnt turning them off and these particular light pots actually clicked to off but would still glow even if i turned it off at the powerpoint, which led me to believe it was a backfeed on the neutral that was causing the issue .
That was my initial thought but my nuetral and earth bond tested fine .That suggests a potential difference between neutral and earth (or cpc, depending where you live)
This would be concerning, though quite possible in a TT system (earth rods)
This chat might be getting out of hand for a grow forum, but it's nice to see who the players are
I made sure the issue wasnt at my end before i contacted the supplier and then i was initially told 4 times by a representative of the company this is normal and i have to pull the pug from the wall
at which point i told them im an electrician and thats the most absurd statement i've heard . I would like to speak with a technician please . I was then told by the same person "oh you are correct the technician said it has a faulty driver " The average person might have believed what they were saying and persisted with the faulty product .
They work really well now !
This is the driver that was replaced in each fitting, the only difference between this one and the new one was the B at the end of the model number .That suggests a potential difference between neutral and earth (or cpc, depending where you live)
This would be concerning, though quite possible in a TT system (earth rods)
This chat might be getting out of hand for a grow forum, but it's nice to see who the players are
The new one didnt have the B
Hiddenjems
Well-known member
Ok, I misunderstood the daisy chain comment. Some people try and run 4-5 decent sized lights daisy chained together for some reason.He's not daisy chaining the power. He's daisy chaining the data cable. It's a different topic really. He had drivers that were not designed to turn off, in the manner his controls wanted them to. Some drivers dim right down, and never go off through dimming control, but might with a double tap. Other drivers dim down until they hit the 'off' threshold. Upon which they actually switch off. His lights used a mix of different drivers, which was never going to work with his one single control method.
Did you know the 20 amp 'finder' relay, is better suited to HID switching, than the 30 amp. The 30 has a longer armature, leading to a faster moving contact at the moment of connection. That is good for most loads, that weld on contact. HIDs weld at disconnect, due to their reactive nature. The long armature offers the contact point more leverage to stay closed.
It's actually unlikely that anybody making switchgear knows that. The 'finder' guy was musing this over with me, and he sits on the european board that decides how to classify switchgear for engineers. Philips arranged the call, as I had exhausted their knowledge. Ultimately the relay wasn't suited to the application, as outside influences couldn't be calculated. Things like distance from the substation, but also banks of capacitors that might be in other lighting nearby. They can act as your power supply, for a moment. So if they work, that's great. But they might not when you move. Though with LED, it likely works just fine
I use way oversized industrial relays for large motors.
Rocket Soul
Well-known member
Ive seen this subject raised here and somewhere else several times and i can honestly say that this thread has reached peak led afterglow!
Cant you sparky guys here pull this thread together by writing out a step by step, euro and the rest of the world, instruction in how to handle the ac part of powering leds playing tricks on you? Starting with the easiest fix and then going into the trickier? I just knew about live and neutral being switched. By experience we found out more in the grow (we once had limited afterglow cause by an extension cable for a pump in the basement getting wet). But it was a chaotic trouble shooting experience and it would be real good to have a resource for peeps to know what they could actually do by themselves and when its time to get an electrcian in. A kinda algorithm for going thru everything. And why not add how to handle if youre getting not shocked but rhe slightest trickle of current going thru your casing or diy frame as you touch it?
Cant you sparky guys here pull this thread together by writing out a step by step, euro and the rest of the world, instruction in how to handle the ac part of powering leds playing tricks on you? Starting with the easiest fix and then going into the trickier? I just knew about live and neutral being switched. By experience we found out more in the grow (we once had limited afterglow cause by an extension cable for a pump in the basement getting wet). But it was a chaotic trouble shooting experience and it would be real good to have a resource for peeps to know what they could actually do by themselves and when its time to get an electrcian in. A kinda algorithm for going thru everything. And why not add how to handle if youre getting not shocked but rhe slightest trickle of current going thru your casing or diy frame as you touch it?
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