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Land of a thousand colas, part deux
- Thread starter gmanwho
- Start date
Surfr seeds Point break. this was from one of the sip pots i made.
Was happy enough to convert the other side of the room into sips as well. I also didnt have the lower feed system setup, or the blumats in the top zone setup. i also didnt have the large tea brewer going yet either. So all the plants didnt get actual nutrient teas and just beneficial microbe teas.
I gotta upload some more photos
Was happy enough to convert the other side of the room into sips as well. I also didnt have the lower feed system setup, or the blumats in the top zone setup. i also didnt have the large tea brewer going yet either. So all the plants didnt get actual nutrient teas and just beneficial microbe teas.
I gotta upload some more photos
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An Organic and synthetic fertilizer approach
So converted the other half of first flower room to Sub Irrigated Planters. SIP. A few pages ago I showed the keg style buckets an drain setups with the 15gal fabric pots. 10-11 gal of amended soil. They worked well even without all the bells and whistles I’m about to work in
The first sip run I saw some nice healthy root in the lower perlite. So that prompted me to turn the other 12 coco dtw into sips.
Bottom line, I’m sick of nasty ass shit growing in my drain lines. Im tired of chasing coco an synthetic nutes. Then knowing my microbe teas are possibly limited because of inhospitable conditions caused by synthetic compounds and or excess build up. Also, Im often a one man show an cleaning drains at end of cycle takes to long and room for error. Plus I want to get rid of being 100% dependent on synthetic ferts. Plan is to use sparingly synthetic ferts in the lower perlite zone. maybe 2ec first fill then 1/2 to 2/3rds add back.
A synthetic Nute an amendment approach.
The last soil run showed me something I was already chasing anyways.
So here it is 17gal keg style bucket. 4-5gal of perlite in bottom. 10-11 gallons of amended soil in upper. About a 40% aeration mix is important to note!
I have not setup the upper soil zone blumat dripper soaker hose yet.
Vegged plants in my coco rice hull mix, transferred into system, and about 7days later
12 buckets, and lot of different plants in this system.
3 grape gello, 4 golden goat x nl5haze, mandlebrot royal kush, tk x Irene, cherry stardawg, cannarado, pk chemd.
Here’s a golden goat x nl5haze cranking along. Color is still abit light, lacking some leaf density, cal, can see the lack of leaf margin density i seek. Stacking Cal, brix density etc... The key here is leaf damage isnt continuing, or leaf margin brix density should increase going forward. New growth is point that direction.
But the roots aren’t fully established yet. Balancing all the variables has not been to bad. around 400-450ppfd at solar noon.
Trellis going in soon, every one is getting lowered cut back and spread out. maybe a few more days of veg then into flower.
This layout allows me to keep a microbe rich upper zone that won’t get effected from synthetic ferts that enter the lower perlite zone.
Below This is what I came up with to keep an even amount of water in the lower bucket. I cut a square hole in the clear tube. I set the tube so the hole height equals 1.5” to 2” of water table height in the bucket.
When the pump feed reaches height, it will over flow onto the floor.(floor drains) Each bucket will have the same amount of nutrient after every feeding. Now they all will have the same water table height despite an uneven floor. If i did my job, there should be no difference in water table through out the system.
The 4 gal of perlite in bottom of the keg bucket keeps the fabric pot about 5” off the bottom. Leaving a 3” or so air gap between the water table an fabric pot. In an earlier post i used a piece of 4"pvc pipe in the tub, I left the 4" pvc pipe out of this build. It is certain the water will wick an rise in the perlite on its own.
At this point im not sure how much higher then normal the air bubbles will make the water rise. Im expecting higher then anticipated tbh. Either way my gut tells me to keep the lower zone moist, but not always filled with nutrient till the plant roots are established. Or until we are drinking significantly every day.
Let the roots feel some moisture, travel out and search and fill the fabric pot. Then roots travel into the lower perlite zone. If the lower zone or even the fabric pot is saturated it probably will bring rot trouble until the plants are drinking daily.
(Version 1.2 of drain below is slightly different. I now feed from the top of the keg bucket down a tube to the lower zone like the original sips. This feed design below did not accept the rate of water in flow very well. It quickly overflowed during pump on, then would settle. i will edit soon with the new update / approach )
So what’s going on here is the drain tube goes back to the center of the bottom of the keg bucket.
There is an air line snaked in all the way to the keg bucket bulkhead fitting. providing aeration to the lower zone
There are 2 netafim pressure compensating no drain emitters. I get 150ml per minute per site.
When I want to drain the buckets, all I do is twist the sight tube an allow to drain. Twist back and place the drip lines back in.
The clear tube allows me to see at a glance the basic water table height per bucket. the floors are pitched.
This way my water table in the bucket will never be higher then where I set the tube hole
This allows each bucket to be secluded from each other. There is no cross contamination with drains connecting to each other. The feed lines drop water in, and never touch the water table.
Alita air pumps for the win. IYKYK. They are so quiet. So dependable an efficient. When you are next to the air pump, you hear the actual air intake more then the vibration from the pump. the wall fan breeze 6ft away is louder then the pump. Worth every $
So converted the other half of first flower room to Sub Irrigated Planters. SIP. A few pages ago I showed the keg style buckets an drain setups with the 15gal fabric pots. 10-11 gal of amended soil. They worked well even without all the bells and whistles I’m about to work in
The first sip run I saw some nice healthy root in the lower perlite. So that prompted me to turn the other 12 coco dtw into sips.
Bottom line, I’m sick of nasty ass shit growing in my drain lines. Im tired of chasing coco an synthetic nutes. Then knowing my microbe teas are possibly limited because of inhospitable conditions caused by synthetic compounds and or excess build up. Also, Im often a one man show an cleaning drains at end of cycle takes to long and room for error. Plus I want to get rid of being 100% dependent on synthetic ferts. Plan is to use sparingly synthetic ferts in the lower perlite zone. maybe 2ec first fill then 1/2 to 2/3rds add back.
A synthetic Nute an amendment approach.
The last soil run showed me something I was already chasing anyways.
So here it is 17gal keg style bucket. 4-5gal of perlite in bottom. 10-11 gallons of amended soil in upper. About a 40% aeration mix is important to note!
I have not setup the upper soil zone blumat dripper soaker hose yet.
Vegged plants in my coco rice hull mix, transferred into system, and about 7days later
12 buckets, and lot of different plants in this system.
3 grape gello, 4 golden goat x nl5haze, mandlebrot royal kush, tk x Irene, cherry stardawg, cannarado, pk chemd.
Here’s a golden goat x nl5haze cranking along. Color is still abit light, lacking some leaf density, cal, can see the lack of leaf margin density i seek. Stacking Cal, brix density etc... The key here is leaf damage isnt continuing, or leaf margin brix density should increase going forward. New growth is point that direction.
But the roots aren’t fully established yet. Balancing all the variables has not been to bad. around 400-450ppfd at solar noon.
Trellis going in soon, every one is getting lowered cut back and spread out. maybe a few more days of veg then into flower.
This layout allows me to keep a microbe rich upper zone that won’t get effected from synthetic ferts that enter the lower perlite zone.
Below This is what I came up with to keep an even amount of water in the lower bucket. I cut a square hole in the clear tube. I set the tube so the hole height equals 1.5” to 2” of water table height in the bucket.
When the pump feed reaches height, it will over flow onto the floor.(floor drains) Each bucket will have the same amount of nutrient after every feeding. Now they all will have the same water table height despite an uneven floor. If i did my job, there should be no difference in water table through out the system.
The 4 gal of perlite in bottom of the keg bucket keeps the fabric pot about 5” off the bottom. Leaving a 3” or so air gap between the water table an fabric pot. In an earlier post i used a piece of 4"pvc pipe in the tub, I left the 4" pvc pipe out of this build. It is certain the water will wick an rise in the perlite on its own.
At this point im not sure how much higher then normal the air bubbles will make the water rise. Im expecting higher then anticipated tbh. Either way my gut tells me to keep the lower zone moist, but not always filled with nutrient till the plant roots are established. Or until we are drinking significantly every day.
Let the roots feel some moisture, travel out and search and fill the fabric pot. Then roots travel into the lower perlite zone. If the lower zone or even the fabric pot is saturated it probably will bring rot trouble until the plants are drinking daily.
(Version 1.2 of drain below is slightly different. I now feed from the top of the keg bucket down a tube to the lower zone like the original sips. This feed design below did not accept the rate of water in flow very well. It quickly overflowed during pump on, then would settle. i will edit soon with the new update / approach )
So what’s going on here is the drain tube goes back to the center of the bottom of the keg bucket.
There is an air line snaked in all the way to the keg bucket bulkhead fitting. providing aeration to the lower zone
There are 2 netafim pressure compensating no drain emitters. I get 150ml per minute per site.
When I want to drain the buckets, all I do is twist the sight tube an allow to drain. Twist back and place the drip lines back in.
The clear tube allows me to see at a glance the basic water table height per bucket. the floors are pitched.
This way my water table in the bucket will never be higher then where I set the tube hole
This allows each bucket to be secluded from each other. There is no cross contamination with drains connecting to each other. The feed lines drop water in, and never touch the water table.
Alita air pumps for the win. IYKYK. They are so quiet. So dependable an efficient. When you are next to the air pump, you hear the actual air intake more then the vibration from the pump. the wall fan breeze 6ft away is louder then the pump. Worth every $
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So the plan is a 2 step approach to nutrition.
First, A Upper organic amended soil zone maintained with a blumat carrot an soaker hose. An area where the microbes and biodiversity thrive. No interference from synthetic nutrients that may impede or limit growth. An imo another list of things that soilless cannot bring to the table!! Period!
2nd, a Lower zone with a synthetic aerated nutrient water table. The deep roots can feed on synthetic nutrients.
The plan is to set my blumats at a lower water content saturation %. Say a 25-30%wc. I have a few meters to monitor.
Then A few days a week I will water in from a hose and wand from my 30gal conical tea brewer.
Each plant will drink differently. Even if the room was monocroped. they all still would have variation on wc% the next day
At some point the wc% will lower towards the 30% wc mark and the blumat will take over. This will prevent the upper zone from over drying. Allowing upper microbes to continue to thrive an not die off.
This will also buy me time to get all the plants ready to get the next tea.
Now I water them all, or none. None of this skipping plants and or the opposite, over watering plants.
When they are all ready, only then will they get a tea. Spiking the WC% Up to saturation, then the dry down. Repeat and changes tea's as necessary.
Creating a wet dry cycle and hopefully not an over saturated environment. Similar to how I came to water my coco dtw systems. And incorporate some sort of crop steering or water stress influence when needed
First, A Upper organic amended soil zone maintained with a blumat carrot an soaker hose. An area where the microbes and biodiversity thrive. No interference from synthetic nutrients that may impede or limit growth. An imo another list of things that soilless cannot bring to the table!! Period!
2nd, a Lower zone with a synthetic aerated nutrient water table. The deep roots can feed on synthetic nutrients.
The plan is to set my blumats at a lower water content saturation %. Say a 25-30%wc. I have a few meters to monitor.
Then A few days a week I will water in from a hose and wand from my 30gal conical tea brewer.
Each plant will drink differently. Even if the room was monocroped. they all still would have variation on wc% the next day
At some point the wc% will lower towards the 30% wc mark and the blumat will take over. This will prevent the upper zone from over drying. Allowing upper microbes to continue to thrive an not die off.
This will also buy me time to get all the plants ready to get the next tea.
Now I water them all, or none. None of this skipping plants and or the opposite, over watering plants.
When they are all ready, only then will they get a tea. Spiking the WC% Up to saturation, then the dry down. Repeat and changes tea's as necessary.
Creating a wet dry cycle and hopefully not an over saturated environment. Similar to how I came to water my coco dtw systems. And incorporate some sort of crop steering or water stress influence when needed
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Another shot
What’s going down next is pretty exciting for me. Something I’ve been changing along an working up to. Getting my worm bins going again for my conical tea brewer
2yr seafood compost mixed with rabbit poop.
Each week I save the egg shells an coffee grounds, then sterilize them in the microwave for 15min on 40% power, let cool, then into the food processor and into the worm bins
What’s going down next is pretty exciting for me. Something I’ve been changing along an working up to. Getting my worm bins going again for my conical tea brewer
2yr seafood compost mixed with rabbit poop.
Each week I save the egg shells an coffee grounds, then sterilize them in the microwave for 15min on 40% power, let cool, then into the food processor and into the worm bins
It does have that glow to it. Def A White reflection. i like to call that "Ghost reflection". Reminds me of the supernatural pictures you see that catch some sort of white translucent cloud reflection. Thank some upper power its not PM.
Knock on wood,(gman hits his head), ive gotten pretty good at preventing PM. "aint nobody got time for that!"
glad u enjoy!!
Everything is nice! I’m curious how you feel about LEDs.
So far i love them. It is abit different coming from a heating style element light bulb.
I have 50 gavita and nanolux double ended fixtures sitting on the other side of the barn. ATP, i dont forsee me using them. Even if i was to build my intended expansion.
Theres alot of variables to leds diodes. Then wattage too. Tech moves fast right now. Last i heard usable photon to watt comparison led has crossed the 2x efficancy mark compared to hps style lighting.
the biggest thing i like is the spread out of heat and light across the canopy. Moving away from that single light source point.
Even before i learned i would rather have 2 lower wattage lights in the same area then 1 higher powered light. Spread the heat, spread the light. I feel the plant keeps up better and adapts. more mass at the end. But growing style needs to be adjusted too.
I feel led is best for canopy or trellis flat growing
I have no idea how people leave space in the trellis nets and can still pay the bills
I dont even think im 50-60% of where i could be at this point
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I was running a fraction of the wattage you usually display and it’s still killed $me.…. Are you seeing a lot of savings in the electrical expense.? Versus the yield & return from HPS
Think I’m gonna grab one of these for my aquariums … they look sweet
@flower~power Id be lying if i said i truly knew at this point. i do have an idea, an Efficiency is key and absolutely better then before. I do crunch numbers sometimes. but i dont have enough similar runs here to really really compare.
If i had to put a number based on previous years. Im at the least 40% less power then my average 750w per 4x4' 4'x5' spacing prior. and more like 60% less when i start to factor in just lighting schedule. Never mind less cooling for ac. But i am also in a cooler climate like you.
The variables are not consistent. I do crunch numbers. it is only i think my 3rd real run in this room. Variables have been all over, never the same. to truly answer that question i would need to run 2-3 runs back to back with same genetics.
I try to be conscious of my power consumption. its my biggest expense. but i also try to push the plants as hard as i can within reason with ppfd. As long as its beneficial to the plant. So i wont skimp on using electricity to get plants moving fast.
so i set the led controller to do things like sun rise, then slowly ramp up power % to a solar noon. Then a slower ramp down but stronger afternoon till sunset. Meanwhile raising and lowering humidity and Co2 parallel to the light ppfd.
At this point the plan is keeping co2 ppm 250 points higher then current ppfd. so if im 500ppfd in light, im 750ppm in co2. Atleast for now.
Those alita pumps are nice. I learned about them few years back when i heard how the Japanese entrust these pumps for their prized koi fish ponds.
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One last question 
when you’re all set and done how do you process the flowers ? Are all the best buds being hand trimmed ? how much is devoted for extractions [hash]..
etc …how are prices per ? Down here I’m getting quoting stupid numbers 750 to 1200
when you’re all set and done how do you process the flowers ? Are all the best buds being hand trimmed ? how much is devoted for extractions [hash]..etc …how are prices per ? Down here I’m getting quoting stupid numbers 750 to 1200
@flower~power
Over in a led thread, i spoke of the light schedule. And C++ helped me crunch some numbers. So i will copy and paste below
i stated in the first post (but edited for clairity)
Led room, no cmh in this section.
Still running flower time with 13.5hr lights on/10.5hr dark day1, then by day 30 down to 12on/12off. then day 70 down to 11on/13off.
32.5w per sqft at half day mark, or 80% power
(when the plants can handle 80%, 50% is the norm in veg an early flower start raising then like day 20 flower lights at 80% power)
Meaning i set my hydrox pro controller to start day at 10% power, within the first 30min sunrise the controller will ramp up to 40% power. At peak growth stage, from that 40% power, the controller will raise gradually to 80% power till the halfway mark of the days light period. A solar noon.
Then the 2nd half of day, over the remaining hours, the controller will gradually ramp down to 60%, 30mins before lights off. The last 30min sunset is a quicker drop off till lights go off. Mimicking some sort of sun schedule of fall time with a solar noon etc.
Full spec, uv an far red running whole time
after that post @C++ responded with
62% on average. Or 24w per foot, of the 39 available.
That is remarkably low, and the pics are certainly healthy enough for me to be doing the maths.
Just my working out, for review:
30 mins averaging 25%
Average 60% for the next 5.5 hours.
Average 70% for the next 5.5 hours
30 mins of 30% if the lights drop to nothing.
So that's 11 hours of 65% and one of 27.5%
11 x 65 add 27.5 and divide by 12..
So thats on average for that last run with the peach hashplant i just posted. Drum roll.................. 24w per sqft!!!
Over in a led thread, i spoke of the light schedule. And C++ helped me crunch some numbers. So i will copy and paste below
i stated in the first post (but edited for clairity)
Led room, no cmh in this section.
Still running flower time with 13.5hr lights on/10.5hr dark day1, then by day 30 down to 12on/12off. then day 70 down to 11on/13off.
32.5w per sqft at half day mark, or 80% power
(when the plants can handle 80%, 50% is the norm in veg an early flower start raising then like day 20 flower lights at 80% power)
Meaning i set my hydrox pro controller to start day at 10% power, within the first 30min sunrise the controller will ramp up to 40% power. At peak growth stage, from that 40% power, the controller will raise gradually to 80% power till the halfway mark of the days light period. A solar noon.
Then the 2nd half of day, over the remaining hours, the controller will gradually ramp down to 60%, 30mins before lights off. The last 30min sunset is a quicker drop off till lights go off. Mimicking some sort of sun schedule of fall time with a solar noon etc.
Full spec, uv an far red running whole time
after that post @C++ responded with
62% on average. Or 24w per foot, of the 39 available.
That is remarkably low, and the pics are certainly healthy enough for me to be doing the maths.
Just my working out, for review:
30 mins averaging 25%
Average 60% for the next 5.5 hours.
Average 70% for the next 5.5 hours
30 mins of 30% if the lights drop to nothing.
So that's 11 hours of 65% and one of 27.5%
11 x 65 add 27.5 and divide by 12..
So thats on average for that last run with the peach hashplant i just posted. Drum roll.................. 24w per sqft!!!
I think that guy C++ is some form of artificial intelligence… 
Luckily numbers are north of that for now.One last question
etc …how are prices per ? Down here I’m getting quoting stupid numbers 750 to 1200
I guess it’s only a matter of time
Just lowers an trim goto hash or oil.
Wifey hand trims but I think if or when things get busier I may get into a small batch trimmer.
Probably keep some hand trimmed for specific people, then I don’t see why i shouldn’t get a mechanical tbh. Especially If people can’t differentiate between greenhouse or outdoor coming in from Elsewhere, and expect to be at 750-1200, then they don’t deserve the extra time to hand trim.
flower , i know some may read whatever nonsense i type an feel i maybe abit much. But i like to go 110% on something or dont do it all. Theres only so much time in a day. So streamlining things to save time later is a good thing.
Sometimes it takes a few experiments and failures to see what works.
Im always trying to become efficient at whatever i do. So i may over analyze things, and miss something thats more obvious. Or almost seem to Rube Golberg things. But redundacy an backup fail safes help.
But i try to be open minded.
I have lost at the least 100-200lbs over the the last 20yrs to rots pathogens or bugs....
But i feel deep down that if im gonna stay relevant in this game i need to be good and efficient at it. If not, i should spend my time elsewhere i guess.
Guess what im trying to say is evolving is part of the game. Knowing where you bottom line is key. If you can become efficient, you maybe able to weather the storm and keep your lights on when others cant. Or at least you'll have a better idea when its time to throw in the towel.
Sometimes it takes a few experiments and failures to see what works.
Im always trying to become efficient at whatever i do. So i may over analyze things, and miss something thats more obvious. Or almost seem to Rube Golberg things. But redundacy an backup fail safes help.
But i try to be open minded.
I have lost at the least 100-200lbs over the the last 20yrs to rots pathogens or bugs....
But i feel deep down that if im gonna stay relevant in this game i need to be good and efficient at it. If not, i should spend my time elsewhere i guess.
Guess what im trying to say is evolving is part of the game. Knowing where you bottom line is key. If you can become efficient, you maybe able to weather the storm and keep your lights on when others cant. Or at least you'll have a better idea when its time to throw in the towel.
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Finally the Santa Cruz blue dream is reversing with the sts. Day 20 of 12/12 looked like it wasn’t taking. But day 30 balls balls balls
Excited about this one, clone only of said mandlebrots Royal kush . Which is (sour diesel x highland afghani) x southern Humboldt purple kush . The Humboldt pk is Hindu Kush x purple afghani.
5 -7 days before the trellis. She has darkened up some and filled in some leaf density since
Then next morning after trellis install
Day 1 flower, sip bucket side of room, golden goats front and right.
Soil bed side of room
Front left of photo is gello
Back left blue dream
Back right dosido x stardawg ix #11
Front right cherry cookie x stardawg ix
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Beep beep, blue dream fem pollen coming thru.. Hoping to get some royal kush x blue dreams made , then popped for outdoor run. going be supper close for timing. Like really really close, like 10 days to dry an then popped for may1st
Royal Kush Day 3 into flower. responding well and nicely woven into lower trellis.
Just keeping upper zone hand watered lightly every day. The goats are getting watered fully every day.
Lower zone I’ve been feeding every other day.
Royal kush reversal on deck
