KBS, KFB or Freedom Bucket questions...

[BlindDate]

!!!!!HELP!!!!

!!!!!HELP!!!!

Well I'm the one to talk! This grow is giving me some problems. For some reason my clones are growing real slow with turned down leafs and a very dark color. At first glance you would say overfert, but they are at only 600 ppm.

Same strain I've been using for the past 2 years. It is a strain nicknamed "Paintcan". Krusty gave it to me. I feel like a newb.

Not too proud to take advice or an ass kicking. All help is welcomed.

I have two Thomas pumps. One small guy that puts out 20 psi and a big ass double piston model that puts out 80 psi. They both produce massive heat at their upper pressure limits.

BTW...That ghetto chiller is just a fan on the res. Evaporation on the surface can cool the res below room temp.

 

[BruceLeeroy]

this is just a blind guess blinddate, but i know quite a few people have problem with overwatering/feed line placement especially at first. maybe they're getting overwatered. how long was the root structure on your clones when you put them into the buckets?

what do you use for diffuser blind? are you going with soaker hose or something else? you may have already answered that and if so my apologies. so the thomas pumps dont put out so much heat until they approach their psi limit?

assuming a 20 gallon res was located on (not in) a concrete floor that never gets above 65-70, and in a room where the air temps never get above 75... do you think a res chiller would be recquired with a thomas? obviously other factors effect it, flow rate through the drainage and buckets in the room at 80-85, heat absorbtion from plumbing etc but i'm just trying to get a rough idea of if a chiller is an absolute must. i'll probably just have to build and experiement lol. anyone know if those regenerative blowers put out any significant heat when used with whitewater air stones?

 

[Guest]

BD..............That paintcan`s suppossedly every bit the producer that bcbb was...... accordin to krusty...........The top colas swell to the size of paintcans..........thats alotta swellin lol...................Are you usin rockwool cubes for your clones?If so, squeeze em to see if theyre waterlogged(suppossed to light and airy just a lil wet)..........Bruce is right about feedline placement,and if your clones are in rockwool they`ll drown from the moisture retention of the cubes(vermiculite/perlite mix is the way to go).....Hell...........stop the feed for lil while see to if they perk up(whatever you think )........Hope all works out dewd.........PEACE.....DHF..............

 

[BlindDate]

Bruce.....At first I was using regular 1/4" soaker hose like Krusty said, the Fiskers brand worked the best. I also noticed that even using a 80 psi pump, the bubbles were'nt that impressive. Certainly not worth all the noise and the 6 amps that pump was costing me. All that back pressure created by the soaker hose was only a handicap. Now I am using regular aquarium aerators and getting MUCH better bubble action.

About my problem: The clones were rooted in an aero unit (no media) and put into the Lava with 12" roots. Been doing the exact same thing for the last 2 years. Damn, I just don't know what it going wrong. I'm flushing the system as we speak. I'll try running water for a few days. Do any of you guys have experience with peroxide? (I'm desperate)

Regarding "overwatering": Never understood that term used in Hydro. Mayby it should be "underoxygenating" instead. After all, those DWC guys have thier roots under water the whole time.

About Paintcan: Yeah, it's a big producer for sure, but not the most hardy plant I've ever grown.

About your chiller: Too many variables, just try it without first, but I think you may have to fork up the bucks for one in the end.

 

[guest3854]

Move yer 1/4 feed lines progressivly outward , so tha roots "stretch" fer the nute solution. Once they bust through tha 1st bucket , move tha lines to in between tha buckets , instead of it flowing through tha top

 

[Guest]

BD........Sorry to hear bout doin it the same way for 2 yrs. and now this......... shouldve known if you know krusty you wouldnt be usin rockwool,my bad...........No answers dewd...........I will say this bout DWC.......its an artificial environment (all hydroponics is)...............God never put MJ growin in water......wont do it(naturally)..........And yes BD overwatering IS under-oxygenating(chokes the plant;drowns it) turn the airpump off on a dwc bucket and see what happens........Hope all works out for yas.......DHF.............

 

[BlindDate]

One thing I failed to mention regarding my problem: Like a dumbass, I used Clonex liquid in my aerocloner for the first time per the bottle recomendations. Turns out that those idiots recomend a concentration that equates to 1200 ppm for cloning!! I never checked the ppm at the time assuming they know what they are doing. My clones had the problem when I planted them. I was hoping that after a month they would snap out of it and grow normal (I broke Krusty rule number 1, NO STRESS). They never did. If anyone lives near the company, please throw a rock through the window for me.

OK, I've hijacked this thread long enough with my own stupid problems. Lets get back to Krusty Buckets.


Do you know that one of the best things about vertical lighting is that they don't need to be adjusted every few days for optimal height like the hood guys have to do.

Steel savage.....Yeah, I keep the feed line shooting against the sides of the bucket once they get going. Never tried locating them between the buckets, completely bypassing the 5 gallons of Lava. That sounds dangerous. 90% of my roots are in that top bucket! Have you noticed a difference by doing that?

 

[CarharttKidd]

Just found this thread this evening. Very informative. I am yet to try the KFB system, but I am piecing together my gear now and learning as much as I can. I want this next cycle to go as perfect as possible, so I am holding off until everything is just right. I don't want to hijack the thread, but I hope you folks wont mind if an absolute greenhorn in the KFB system asks a few questions of some expierenced hands such as you guys. Hopefully some other folks can learn too. These questions are really simple, but I am still very early on in the planning stages.

1.How many watts and what combination of lights do you think a person should use to grow 12 plants kfb style?

2.What kind of space will that take?

3.How big of an A/C will that take?

 

[BruceLeeroy]

not at all carhartt, ask away imo the more info the merrier here. DEDHED i wanted to ask you a question about pyrosol as i've never used it before (silicone additive). do you just follow the instructions as far as adding it to nutes? how does it affect PPM's? do you still run GH at full strength with it?

on another note, i just recently checked my tapwater for quality, and the results were suprising to say the least. 180 PPM (good) 8.9 ph (not so good). anyone else have such high PH tap water? i'm suprised the shit is safe to drink at that level!

peace.

 

[Guest]

Hey guys........CK.......dewd theres a diagram on the only pics in this thread provided by npk and its a 10 plant with 10K watts......... Dont know if you realize how BIG 1 kbs plant can get(5ft.x5ftx up to 8ft tall) ,........ Of course all yall crazy kids in Canada think 12 plants kbs style is a SMALL grow.......lol.....Blind Date chime in .........How much hydro bill(elec.) on 10k watts ,plus pumps,a/c,fans,etc.?(A LOT!)...........Bottom line CK,it aint cheap to do 12 plants kbs style the right way........................Start small and build your way up...... Bruce.................Pyrosol is GH brand of silica supplement(I used Dutchmaster)...........when plants grow as fast as they do in kbs,the cell walls of the branch stems get mushy ,spindly, and weak(or at least mine were).....I was like 4 weeks into flower and 3 huge ass limbs snapped under their own weight and were tied up like a spiderweb........SYK told me bout the silica supplement,ordered it overnight express,put the shit in the rez and within 24 hrs you could feel the stems hardening up and by the end of the week when I flushed ,they felt like outdoor woodyass stems(best bet is to call customer service at GH unless the instructions are more specific than the ones I got from Holland)Also find out how to add it as a regular regimen(in minute amounts ,Im sure) to the rez so you wont have my problems.....There was no fluctuation in ph or ppms Bruce(GH has buffers in it for additives and such to keep the ph in line and there was nothing in the supplement to change the fertilizer concentrations............Blind Date ..... what about any bud boosters towards the end of cycle?Had any luck or have you used them at all?...............Anyways...........PEACE.......DHF............

 

[gregor_mendel]

Silica additives are usually potassium silicate. Wouldn't this add more K to your nutrient profile?

GM

 

[CarharttKidd]

I am aware as to the scale of such a grow. I know it's going to be pretty big, I'm just not sure how big haha. I have been reading up on this system casually for a few years now. I'm taking some time off now, and in the down time, I want to get ready for a really big run. Canada. That's funny. They don't get payed enough for their product there. Sad. I know that my power bill would probably be in excess of $1k a month and I know I need a mountain of gear. Do you think a 2 car garage would be big enough for something of this scale? Biggest run indoors I've done so far is a lousy 3k watts(Not KFB), so I definately have alot of gear to pick up and alot to learn. I had a 15x20 patch outdoor filled to the brim 8-10ft tall, so I do understand that this is going to be a ton of work

 

[BruceLeeroy]

i have to say, your much more brave than i am carhart! i might try bigger once i get the system dialed in, until then i'm perfectly happy with a small 3400 watt grow. ok, so a not so small 3400 watt grow. lol. i really like the idea of one 3-4 month operation each year giving me enough smoke to last all year long.


i notice that with 3400 watts, an 11x11 room is only using 28 grams/watts. oh no! lol. i've never really liked the gram to watt guidelines, as they dont take into accound par lumens, CRI and the fact that all lights are not created equal per watts. i'll keep my fingers crossed that the pyrosol has good instructions and is idiot proof like the flora series. the only bud booster i know of offhand is fat flower by northern lights and i'm loath to mix stuff from different companies. anyone have any experience with GH KoolBloom? the instructions on koolbloom is to add it in no more than 200 ppm concentration if using as an additive. if i remember correctly full strength GH is like 1800ish ppms, plus 180 for tapwater and 200 for koolbloom thats like 2200 ppm's even assuming the pyrosol adds nothing. might have to cut back on the flora series a bit to accomodate the extra ppms, or do you think it'd be fine?

peace

 

[Guest]

CK........Youre my hero with a patch like that and got away with it..whew!..............reminds me of my outdoor days..................By no means was any offense intended.......But what I said earlier bout 5x5x8 or bigger per plant is no shit with the right strain.....been there and done that.........ok? Now......I build homes for a livin and Id say that if you`ve got a two car garage bein min.400 sq.ft.......divide the sq. ftg. by 25 and thats what you can safely put in a kbs room if its done right.............20x20 would be 16 plants with way more than 1000 bucks a month power bill but damn .........I wanna see ya do it..............Gregor.........saw no changes in my ppms I guess cuz of the frequent flushings .................PEACE...........DHF...............

 

[CarharttKidd]

Woah cool I'm someone's hero yessssss. Like I said, this is going to be a very looooooong layover because I want to make certain this one goes off perfect. Just for grins, I thought I'd show you my biggest tree from my last out. The patch is almost entirely harvested at this point, but you get the point.

 

[CarharttKidd]

Anywho, sounds like the 2 car garage is the ticket indeed. That would leave me with a 5'x20' hall that I could store alot of gear in and give me space for clones, drying, storage, etc. Most of the grow shit could be cornered off in the garage that way except when it comes harvest time Are there any plans out there for a kfb system that is 20x15?

Once I get all my ducks in a row on the gear end, I guess the best thing to do is to go hunt down a property management company that'll rent me a place in the right neighborhood with a 2 car garage.

 

[gregor_mendel]

CarharttKidd:

If you make your hallway 5'x20', you have a 10'x20' flower room, or eight plants.
If your make your hallway 5'x15' on the other dimension of the garage, you will have a 15'x15' flower room, or 9 plants, with more efficient use of your light.

I know that all depends where the door to your garage is, but it may be worth temporarily adding a door if the current one is inconvenient to the shorter hallway I am proposing.

aside:
GH has discontinued pyrosol. Stock up at your local hydro store.

GM

 

[CarharttKidd]

dood in this neck of the woods the standard 2 car garage is 20x20.

 

[CarharttKidd]

I measured.

 

[Guest]

CK........All you gotta do is figure out howta put 12 in that double garage just like the 1 behind you in the pic and youre in business............LMAO..........Good job dewd......brings back memories,makes me wanna cry.................lol.......(btw,whats the deal with the tarp..........You hidin it or shadin it?)..............Bruce.......Gregor says that pyrosol is pottasium silicate(I never even looked on the package,just used it in desperation and it worked like a charm(dutchmaster that is).......If it is, then ppms will rise some ,but it looks like youve got an understanding howta mix everything and still stay within parameters, so dont worry so much.........fill that passive rez up with tapwater ,let it sit ,(krusty used to let his sit for couple days,at least 24 hrs. ) then mix all your shit ,then let it sit again,stiritup stiritup,stiritup..lol....... check it......K.I.S.S. is the golden rule..........PEACE........DHF..........