KBS, KFB or Freedom Bucket questions...

[Bonzo]

Howdy Bruce, listen to DEDHED, he knows the deal, fun fun fun!!!!

bonz

 

[Guest]

Gregor..........I guess you could put the plants in the corners if you want to,but thats NOT the krusty configuration..........plants in the corner creates a darkspot directly behind the plant and the 1000 mh is having to hit the plant at an angle........With the plants centered in the walls ,both corner lights AND the 1000mh are hitting the plant headon.........thus Krusty`s idea of all 4 plants gettin light fron 3 lights at a time(the 600`s in the corners penetrate past halfway of the plant getting rid of ANY darkspots.).................as far as being inefficient...........I had a ROOM FULL OF BUDS in a 10x10...hadta crawl around and shit to harvest..lol.........Great light penetration IMHO........Anyways Great thread Bruce ,keep up the good work..............PEACE.........DHF..........

 

[BruceLeeroy]

yeah i did some measuring and such and its definitely better to put the lights in the corners. true your losing much of your light, but the plants will get hit on a much broader arc with direct light than if you put them in the middle of the wall. with plants in corners and lights in the middle of walls, you end up with like 180 degrees of plant that is getting no direct light. thanx again all for the great input!

 

[Guest]

Hey Bruce.............In a 10x10,the plants are 2 1/2 ft. off the wall centered at 5 ft(and my plants were 5ft tall and 5 ft in diameter at harvest)..............The lights penetrate well........Im not even sure if the dead spot in the corner Gregor was talkin bout with plants in the corner is real (because of how well vertical lights penetrate 360 degrees)2 1/2 - 3 ft into the canopy is the norm Ive heard for yrs(vertically OR horizontally)(with plants in corner the mh is further from the plants ,was Krusty`s point,same thing as what you said bout plant only gettin 180 degrees of lumens)............................All I know is the Klown said it was so and I went with the gospel of experience.............As far as losin lumens absorbed into panda film, ultra flat white walls, OR reflected by mylar that causes hotspots........dont mean shit when 4 plants brought me 1.23 gms per watt on my very first run ..............System works........pain in the ass to maintain(luv yas Krust) but Ive not seen anyone top the numbers of 33 1/2 lbs off 10 plants under 10k.........Luv That Klown.................PEACE......DHF..............

 

[aGrowerYouKnow]

BruceLeeroy - there are much much better ways at delivering air/ bucket configuration IMO than Krusty originally knew.

There may be more information (even a forum) floating around cyberspace with more KBS info than you could read in a MONTH of straight reading - but then again - there may not.

The powers that might be - usually like to see pictures of current grows from potential in-duct-ties.

Got Picts?

PM me for more info.

aGrowerYouKnow

 

[aGrowerYouKnow]

Why does starting this thread fill me with a sense of foreboding? With a bit of luck, this can stay clear of trolling and hard feelings and provide the answers to some questions.

good luck

I was a member of overgrow before it's death (awaiting ressurection?) and have been lurking about here for a few months now. During that time, i've read MANY threads on the style Krusty taught, as well as watched with much interest as many different growers repeated his efforts and some toyed with different aspects of it, some to much success, others to less. It certainly seems fascinating to me.

The problem is that so many K threads, Freedom threads and whateveryouwannacallembucket threads have ended up so offensive and pointless that the mods on whatever site, for whatever reason, have had to remove them, along with precious information. So i was hoping some of you old hands at the buckets would answer some questions. some of these, i know and are asked hopefully for the benefit of others who don't, some are questions i'm asking for my own info.

Hmm - what was the common denominator in all those threads?? - Krusty Himself.

Please, i do not want this thread to turn into a pro-con look at the system. This all too easily ends up with arguments, name calling and eventual death of the thread. please stick to the K style, and identify any personal tweaks as such and where they differ from what Krusty recommended. some are general questions that any grower with experience can answer, and i'll identify them as such, but again, i hope that Krusty/Freedom/KFB growers will have some good answers

You numbered these and everything - so Im gonna take a shot and answer your question - just cause you are doing everything right so far tee hee.

1) Middle of the wall.

2) The conversion rate is 3500btu per 1kw of light cooling needed. the AC will strip ALL moisture from the air when working right - you will need a fogger machine. www.dragonagro.com

3) Sativa dominant strains are most used for Killer buckets. I personally like indica strains though myself for medicine.

4) I'd choose a carbon filter on my exhaust - you may not need to vent cause of ac most of the day - but come nightime and other times you will want to exchange your air in your room - make sure you plan for an intake (powered) as well as your exhaust - most people forget that simple part.

5) Air Pump - "Killer Bucket Growers" have long passed up those crappy Thomas pumps. Most pro KBS folk use "Regenerative Whitewater blowers" - http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/product.detail/iid/9315/cid/2252 - or if you are really serious (like I used to be) use one of these - a sweetwater!" http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/product.detail/iid/4695/cid/2250

6) Yes - temps and ph are correct - dont try and heat up during night - krusty also said that change like that "may add 5% if done totally correctly - but can easily cost you 20% if fuked up" Get the system working for you first - then tweek it.

7) Yes - nightime temps should be within 10 deg not more.

. . .to be continued. . .

 

[aGrowerYouKnow]

sorry, i guess after typing this i realize many of these are not BUCKET questions, but environment questions, but it all plays into providing the plants with the most stress free environment possible. it's also late so cut me some slack!

actually - the environment is like 90% of growing - you could take an advanced grower and put him in a shitty environment and he couldnt grow his way out of a paper bag - but if you take a shitty grower - and put him in the bomb environment (usually unless his name starts with an R) he will get the fattest yeilds off sittin on his ass for the most part.

With luck, we can get some answers to these questions. please if anyone else has any questions about the method they'd like to throw in so we can make it more comprehensive, please do so. i will add more when i can think more coherently.

It would take literally a hundred threads to talk about KBS comprehensively - I have tried to answer your questions for you though.

Hope it Helps

8) I dont think this has really been determined - some growers I know use a mag drive 950gph for between 6 and 8 buckets if that helps at all.

Iwaki are the best pumps on the market though if you want to get real serious!

9) I've always used room circulation fans on the floor pointed upwards - the k man himself would disagree - but to each his own. Personally I wouldnt ever grow without air circulation in my room (and not just the circulation from the AC either)

10) It would be real hard to get CO2 up to toxic levels for plants. How fast the co2 is used depends on the plant growth themselves.

I'd get a controller - they are a little expensive - but worth more then their weight in GOLD my new friend.

Check out the grow controllers made by IGS - they kick ass - heres a link for you

http://www.bghydro.com/BGH/items.asp?Bc=IGS/PNG&iTpStatus=1&Tp=

11) Yes - your flush particulars are correct - I'd also use a product like Clearex during those 24-48 hours of flushing -

NO - dont add nutes to the flush water at the end of flushing - that water contains toxins that have been flushed out of the plant (kinda like human shit and piss) that the plant needed to get rid of. IMO - the flushing is one of the most important things I ever learned from K man.

12) I wouldnt get into adding more drain lines and crap - too much work - I would however - increase the size of the drain lines - before I stopped growing - I would use up to a 1 1/2" drain exiting my buckets - and they never clogged - even with a 16week+ cycle sometimes.

13) YES - this was one of the biggest stumbling blocks for me in the beginning - but yeah - plain old pvc drains.
I hope that answered some of your questions and peaked your interest for more.

As I said - those interested should PM me.

Sincerely,

a Grower You Know

 

[aGrowerYouKnow]

You could use this stuff instead of soaker hose.
http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/product.detail/iid/9687/cid/2372

It looks and feels like soaker hose, but is larger, even though it is labeled as 1/4 inch. That's 1/4 inch pipe fitting size, not irrigation size like the soaker hose. Use 3/8 inch barbed fittings to connect it. I have used this and the soaker hose, and like this a lot better. It is designed to diffuse air.

I know it is a deviation, but listen to bluntitup on that regenerative blower and sweetwater air diffusers. All the pics I have seen of those blow away Krusty's original design. (which I have run) I don't know if noise is an issue, but the diaphragm compressor is loud. I haven't heard a regenerative blower myself, but people say they are quieter.

I too was on krusty's nuts when I first started - wanting to do EVEYRTHING exactly as he stated. . . .so. . .. I tried "soaker hose"

I've tried three different brands of soaker hose - the only way IMO to get it to work well is to pound it with a hammer over and over to make it even more permiable than it already is.

Soaker Hose = not a good solution.

Then someone found the sweetair diffusers.

I too used them - and had better luck - I would use 4 2" long diffusers per bucket - and had alright reslults.

Those difusers = a better solution.

Then some guy named climberdude came along and introduced us all to "Alita HDPE Porus Tube"

Check this out - http://www.alita.com/diffuser/polyethylene.php

Those fuken things rock - thanks again ClimberDude wherever you may be in cyberspace!!

You would also need one of the blowers I recommended too - the Thomas just wont cut it for this application.

I used a portable ac, but if I had it to do again, I would use ductless split system.

Ductless Splits are the bomb - they are something we have talked about in depth. Portables suck - try these till you need to get a full blown 3.5-5 ton AC unit and play with the big boys!

http://www.airconditioner.com/MINI_SPLITS.asp?butnam=23000-29500&whatsort=btu

Hope it helps - I just spilled my guts - LOL

Sincerely,

SomeoneYouKnow ( I mean - a Grower You Know ) - yeah - AGYK - lol

 

[aGrowerYouKnow]

yeah i did some measuring and such and its definitely better to put the lights in the corners. true your losing much of your light, but the plants will get hit on a much broader arc with direct light than if you put them in the middle of the wall. with plants in corners and lights in the middle of walls, you end up with like 180 degrees of plant that is getting no direct light. thanx again all for the great input!

I know you may think lights in corners to be correct - but trust me bro - it is not

O X O
X K X
O X O

With the O's being your four plants in a 10x10 average room - your Xs being 600w HPS bulbs and your K being a 1kw bulb.

Personally I'd hang the Xs up high and your K down lower.

AGYK

 

[aGrowerYouKnow]

Here's some pict I found on the internet.

You tell the size of the plants by the door in the left hand side of the pict - the plants grew so close together the 600 couldnt be dropped down in between the plant anymore and it looks like this grower couldnt even get to his power panel anymore.

Damn!

 

[Guest]

SYK........how could you go totally against the diamond pattern for plants and lites in the corners in a 10x10 kbs thingy ?(could be nuther conspiracy theory)..........................Just wanna hear it since you`re on a roll this evenin.......................DHF.................Must be all that knowledge you tryin to spread..........remember ,If anyone EVER knew there was more than 1 way to skin a cat..........,it was ALWAYS YOU!...........DHF.............

 

[BruceLeeroy]

how reflective of paint is just plain white base in a flat finish? good enough? any idea who would carry ultra flat white? i've checked with paint stores in the area and no one carries anything like that, but every one of em calls their colors something different. i agree with wanting the best reflection you can get.... but assuming 3400 watts in an 11x11 room..... is there such a thing as overkill?

i've always used mylar and it's a huge pain in my ass. there are some cool products out there, like the mylar over fabric, but it's all $$$. 100+$ for a mylar coated fabric or white plastic..... 22$ for a gallon of paint. i know you get out what you put in, and i'm sure that mylar is the way to go.... it's a mirror, but i'm looking for a cheaper, easier alternative than that if possible. i think for the first time kbs grower.... startup cost is a very legitimate concern and there is alot of other equipment that just CAN'T be second rate.


are latex paint fumes toxic to plants? how long after painting (assuming the room is well aired) would it be safe to inhabit (with plants) a room?

i also noticed while cleaning out the garage that i had two different types of soaker hose. both 1/4 inch. one product was UNBELIEVABLY tough. very stiff, and holes so small you couldn't really even see 'em. taking a 12 inch piece, plugging one end and blowing in the other produced almost NO airflow, had to blow so hard my cheeks hurt. the air holes and pores on it are so tiny they are very hard to see. the other product was much lighter to the touch, easily bendable, and looked about 3 times more porous than the other, almost like you could see individual strands that lay over each other to make the hose. blowing into a plugged 12 inch piece produced and easy airflow with little effort. is it possible all the trouble with soaker hose is just due to different brands? both appear to be made out of recycled tires. one i think would do marvelous with a nice powerful pump/compressor/blower. the other i think you'd have to have a 1+ hp compressor to even get air to come out of it! i really like that HDPE plastic, that stuff looks like it would be excellent, but in the spirit of sticking with the krusty setup i think i will stay with the soaker hose. i'll probably order both and just do some testing to see which performs better. what am i looking for? the volume of bubbles? the size of bubbles? or a good combination of the two? i understand i want froth, but the question is large bubbled froth or small bubbled, or does it even make a difference so long as there is intense aeration going on? perhaps some lessons just have to be learned the hard way lol. i'll be sure to take some pictures!

i'm sure alot of these questions seem ignorant but what can i say. better to ask a question and look stupid but get it right than not ask a question get it wrong and BE stupid.

Peace.

 

[Guest]

Hey Bruce.............I think SYK(if not him ,it was someone above) said somethin bout a different KINDA soaker hose thats made to aspirate air not waterin hose(Im sure that would provide more froth )..............that thomas pump part # you asked for is 900-59 puts out 0.25 [email protected] above SYK shows the bigger type pumps that provide the bigger better deal.............As far as stickin to the Krusty exactamundo process,He never had a problem with folks IMPROVING the airpumps(MORE CFMS AND PSI`S) OR the drainage type thingies(FASTER DRAIN BACK TO REZ ,WHICH BTW IS GREAT IDEA NITROUSINMYVEINS).......Krusty got crazy bout all the questions asked about why he wouldnt CHANGE THINGS on his setup.............If it aint broke dont fixit(AND YEAH KRUSTY `S A BASTARD ,HE`D BE THE FIRST TO AGREE but gotta luv his grows) .....No shit tho,if there ever was anyone `s brain to pick its AGROWERYOUKNOW(SOMEONEYOUKNOW).............. He banned everyone that still sided with Krusty at kbsgrowers.com after their falling out,HUGE amounts of knowledge had been stored on THAT site.............Shit noone could deny was on the way to becoming THE SUPERSYSTEM KBS BUCKETS.................IMHO,I find it incumbent upon SYK to SHARE that knowledge and anything short of that is wrong(towards the community I mean) after all isnt the main reason being here is for knowledge?How bout it SYK............Do the right thing and help all us poorer-than-thou.........Wouldnt hurt you a bit,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,might even change a few(maybe a lot) of opinions boutcha if you even care..................I know Bruce would appreciate it...................Didnt come here to stir up shit,came here to help.................PEACE..........DHF......................

 

[BruceLeeroy]

1. SYK you said to be sure and plan a powered intake as well as exhaust.... does a simple passive intake w/ powered exhaust not work? i know generally speaking that its best to have your room air changed out quickly, but i was thinking about a passive intake, and active exhaust that pushes through plastic dryer hose to the outside, with an ozone generator (C.A.P) inside the ducting mixing ozone as it pushes it outside.

2. have you kbs guys ever used a vaportek? it sounds all well and good but i can't help but think it'd be woefully inadequate for something like this.

3. would it be adequate to just change out the air in the room 6 times / day? or should it be vented constantly at night (for the ladies)?

4. would a WW10 whitewater regenerative blower (http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/product.detail/iid/9315/cid/2252) be up to snuff for use with that HDPE pipe diffuser in four buckets? the thing that concerns me is it's such a low psi pump... says it's only good for 5-7 psi, with large CFM's. was the high pressure only necessary with soaker hose? would the ww10 work well with sweetwater air stones?

 

[BlueHaze]

sup dedhedfred long time no see.

 

[Guest]

Bluehaze..........WERE NOT WORTHY,WE`RE NOT WORTHY..................Bruce,........Bluehaze was 1 of the VERYFEW at the time and as a matter of fact up to the present to surpass the 3 lb. per plant club..............3 1/4 if memory serves me.......WOWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!(Reefermans hashplant no.38).............BH......how the hell have yas been................been thinkin boutcha hopin yas hadnt been caught up in all the bullshit drama been goin on...........Sure would be nice if you hung around and gave up some of that killer experience of yours...........Anyways,damn good to see yas dewd...................Bruce,..........Krusty always worked in a sealed room with a/c and dehumidifier in last 1/2 of flowerin(if needed to help the a/c)(also a big honkin fogger to create humidity in veggin stages of growth if needed to offset the a/c`s dehumidifying effect)..............Im not sure about all those innovations made on exhausting and intaking from SYK`S site(or anywhere really ).........Bluehaze what do you haveta say...........I know that the reason Krusty NEVER exchanged the air was a simple explanation.....he had spaghetti tubes dropped down into his plants injecting(if you will)constant co2........Plants take in co2 and give OFF oxygen.......Noone could ever grasp that lil tidbit,but in a nutshell the room cant have dank stale air if the plants are big enough to be giving off 70% r.h. and creating MASSIVE amounts of oxygen..........He was definitely interested in the vertical cooltube concept,so the a/c wouldnt haveta work so hard,but IMHO(and of course HIS own personal experience) exchanging air is moot.......means nothing..........Now I didnt say moving air wasnt ok...some small oscillating fans to move the co2 & o2 around.......If youre worried bout smell hang carbon scrubbers in the room and letem clean whats IN the room(saw 1 on ebay couple wks ago has its own fan attached and is refillable).........Remember.if the rooms really sealed ,the smell cant get out except when you exit or enter....................PEACE....................DHF....................

 

[Guest]

Bruce ,forgot about the paint question.................Ultra flat white is midewcidal bathroom paint it comes from ANY paintstore ...mine was sherwin williams............Dont want any mildew formin on walls with all the humidity(like in showerstalls) and with the lights it makes the room kinda glow................dont know if it reflects or absorbs..........Krusty hated mylar..said it created hotspots..............DHF..................

 

[BlueHaze]

dedhedfred i see you haven't miss a beat. Your spot on.

 

[guest3854]

Damn , acoupla ppl I havent seen on tha boards in a while ; BH DHF . Krusty definatly changed some of my grow techniques . A pioneer

 

[Guest]

BH............What`s sad is I`m doin this from memory(pore ol head n all,LOL)..... With my favorites at OG gone and deleted,or rather locked out at kbsgrowers.com,Im just tryin to do my part but Im sure there`s gonna be some repercussion bout the sealed room thingy if anyone had pics stored of some of K`s bigger grow.....All the ductwork and inline fans in the pics were for extracting megaheat from buncha bulbs that the a/c couldnt control and keep up with,NOT TO EXCHANGE AIR(although it did to a certain extent ,but in a big room ,negligible)and the rooms WERE sealed...........If its ok I`d like to ask a question........(1)Who here has experience with vertical cooltubes?(2)Has anyone used a lightmeter to see how many lumens are lost either up the tube or passing through the glass tube to the room?(3)What type and size inline fan does it take to cool 4- 600`s and a 1000 to eliminate the a/c?(or is that possible?).....................All and any info`s greatly appreciated and I hope it`s ok for the thread as well Bruce..................PEACE......DHF..................