:::::::Jesus and 'The Holy Bible':::::::

[White Beard]

Yeah...my mother used to have a refrigerator magnet, said “GOD said it, I believe it, that settles it!”.... That is the speech of a mind that is terrified, does not think - and does not listen.

They don’t know truth, they can’t hear truth, but they do what they’re told

 

[White Beard]

Just because one person believes that jesus is god, while the bible says that jesus is a part of god or the son of god doesn't mean the person believing a lie is right. just because you believe you're right, doesn't mean you're not actually wrong.

The meaning is (a)
I believe (b)
you believe (c)
the meaning is still (a)
this is called absolute truth

Believing you’re right is indeed no proof against being wrong: show me the Christian who applies that to themselves.

Can’t really believe ANY of what’s in the Magic Book without swallowing the Book Itself whole, uncritically, unreasonably...and with no external evidence, just because the Book tells you to DO IT.

You’re not even supposed to think about it or understand it, just BELIEVE...and OBEY.

Your syllogism is busted.

 

[SamsonsRiddle]

Believing you’re right is indeed no proof against being wrong: show me the Christian who applies that to themselves.

Can’t really believe ANY of what’s in the Magic Book without swallowing the Book Itself whole, uncritically, unreasonably...and with no external evidence, just because the Book tells you to DO IT.

You’re not even supposed to think about it or understand it, just BELIEVE...and OBEY.

Your syllogism is busted.

the bible says to test everything, not just follow what the man behind the "altar" is telling you. every follower of god is supposed to do their own homework, and find out what god says for themselves. whether you believe it or not is up to you, but either way you have to study to know what it says IN CONTEXT.



there were a group of jews in thessalonica that an apostle went to to teach, but they stuck up their nose because they were taught by the most prestigious rabbis and followed what they said without finding out for themselves. then there were the bereans that the apostle went to, who studied DAILY what what he said to see if it lined up with the scriptures. god said the bereans were more righteous than the self-righteous thessalonicans because they studied for themselves instead of just following traditions (or just obey and don't question as you say).

 

[White Beard]

Fully agree with your first paragraph, but in terms of how Christians live and what Christians teach and how Christians treat people, you’d never know it was there, a teardrop in the desert.

Then again, you can’t call it “study” if you’re making sure it lines up with the Magic Book. You’re ducking the question of why the Magic Book is the only standard: all that it says is words. Christians say it’s the infallible, inerrant, indisputable Words of God.

The stories don’t matter unless you believe those stories are truer than true, truer than reality, truer than everything else. What makes you believe THAT STRONGLY that the Magic Book needs to be believed and obeyed over all else? Even validating armed suppression of “unbelievers”?

What makes you fall for the magic trick?

 

[Elmer Bud]

The best selling book, 'The Holy Bible', has been helped many people to know God.



Jesus has been the most influential person in all of human history.



What is the Spirit of Jesus ? Why is God with us?


Answers can be found here https://www.biblegateway.com/


In God (I will praise His word), In God I have put my trust; I will not fear. What can flesh do to me?
Psalm 56:4 NKJV


View Image



View Image

G `day PL

My Father told me the Lord helps those that help themselves .
But lord help those who get caught helping themselves .

Thanks for sharin

EB .

 

[BadTicket]

^^ Make your own Christianity.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uS5DaTIF1a0

 

[SamsonsRiddle]

Fully agree with your first paragraph, but in terms of how Christians live and what Christians teach and how Christians treat people, you’d never know it was there, a teardrop in the desert.

Then again, you can’t call it “study” if you’re making sure it lines up with the Magic Book. You’re ducking the question of why the Magic Book is the only standard: all that it says is words. Christians say it’s the infallible, inerrant, indisputable Words of God.

The stories don’t matter unless you believe those stories are truer than true, truer than reality, truer than everything else. What makes you believe THAT STRONGLY that the Magic Book needs to be believed and obeyed over all else? Even validating armed suppression of “unbelievers”?

What makes you fall for the magic trick?

It's hard to answer your questions when you assume what you observe in christianity as a whole is what the book teaches. i totally agree that the vast majority of what is declared christian is hypocritical and is actually heresy according to the bible. it's like saying all people who grow pot are just stupid stoners who can't get a real job. most christians (the ones you refer to) are like people wearing michael jordan jerseys saying they play for the bulls. christianity as it is viewed or practiced today is mostly watered-down sun worship mixed in with mysticism.



anyone who says the bible is infallible, or without error is just gullible. i would ask them what about all the errors that can easily be proven by terrible interpretations/translations and transliterations (jehovah came from yhwh?)? what about all the books that are missing or are considered non-canonical yet fill in gaps left by the 66?



my questions to you are where does knowledge come from? why do we have a creative intelligence that designs in a way no animal can? where does our conscience come from? how can there be so many animals and plants that could have only come into existence and sustained to this day if they were both created at the same time?

 

[White Beard]

Thank you so much for your comment, it establishes common ground - always worthwhile!

I’m almost nervous about answering, but I’ll start with #3: I believe knowledge comes from experience, at best a wide range of experience. Animals of all sorts modify their behaviors in response to experience - humans oddly respond to experiences, and can make both knowledge and confusion out of them. My experience and observations tell me that consciousness is part of life: we might not have a nice chat with a shrimp, but the shrimp is having it’s own experience. To put it another way, consciousness is emergent in living organisms.

As to the source of these things? For myself, I’m not sure there’s a difference between God and DNA. I confess, I can’t imagine dna simply evolving into wheat, Beethoven, and barracuda, it’s TOO fantastic - but I can’t wrap my head around any creator god story I ever heard, either, and a creator god who uses DNA as tool and template is far beyond my ability to conceive of such an entity. I’m quite sure however that the god of DNA is not the god who’s supposed to be talking out of the Bible.

I hope I didn’t seem like I was attacking *you* on the Book: hard-core faithism is a nearly-constant encounter when speaking to ‘people of faith’, so I was meaning to speak generally.

I’ll come back for the others

 

[White Beard]

why do we have a creative intelligence that designs in a way no animal can?

where does our conscience come from?

how can there be so many animals and plants that could have only come into existence and sustained to this day if they were both created at the same time?

On WHY we have a creative intelligence, because we’re capable of developing one: fairy tales about things we don’t understand rarely illuminate, but we can either thank god, or thank dna, or just USE It. Begs the question, “are humans animals” - when in fact we ARE animals...our biggest problems stem from trying to “prove” we’re NOT animals at all...and from trying to “prove” we’re the WORST of animals.

Conscience comes from consciousness, consciousness comes from experience: the awareness that we are noticing and changing ourselves and the world around us creates context, context drives awareness, awareness presents us with choices, choices create satisfaction or dissatisfaction, and moderate future choices.

Struggling to address your final paragraph: it simply doesn’t make sense to me.

 

[beta]

 

[SamsonsRiddle]

On WHY we have a creative intelligence, because we’re capable of developing one: fairy tales about things we don’t understand rarely illuminate, but we can either thank god, or thank dna, or just USE It. Begs the question, “are humans animals” - when in fact we ARE animals...our biggest problems stem from trying to “prove” we’re NOT animals at all...and from trying to “prove” we’re the WORST of animals.

Conscience comes from consciousness, consciousness comes from experience: the awareness that we are noticing and changing ourselves and the world around us creates context, context drives awareness, awareness presents us with choices, choices create satisfaction or dissatisfaction, and moderate future choices.

Struggling to address your final paragraph: it simply doesn’t make sense to me.

dna is amazing, as are proteins, enzymes, and the possibility of life on this blue marble.



the final part was about symbiotic interactions that must be maintained in order for both of the species to survive (i'm not a scientist so excuse me if i use wrong terminology). They must have both came into existence at the same exact time.



Coryanthes speciosa and Stanhopea grandiflora, the two species of “bucket orchids,” are native to the tropical areas of Mexico, Central and South America, and Trinidad. These members of the orchid family produce a flower that is uniquely beautiful in the plant kingdom. They also have a very sophisticated means of reproduction that requires the services of specific species of “orchid bees.” There are about 250 species of orchid bee, which are some of the most ostentatious of the bee kind, noted for their jewel-like appearance (Stephen Buchmann, “Orchid Bees,” U.S. Dept. of Agriculture). Two subspecies of orchid bee, Euglossa meriana and Euglossa cordata, are just the right size, weight, and shape to be of assistance to the bucket orchid (Geoff Chapman, “Orchids… a witness to the Creator,” Creation magazine, September 1996).
The males of a particular subspecies of these bees will only visit one subspecies of bucket orchid, ensuring that no cross-pollination of this delicate flower will occur. Each subspecies of bucket orchid secretes a scented, oily perfume, which is produced in the upper hood of the flower. Because each bucket orchid species produces a unique scent, useful in attracting its own species of orchid bee, and because of the highly specialized process involved, cross pollination is prohibited by design. The scent the males seek will only attract a female of his species, maintaining the integrity of the system for both plant and pollinator. The male bees fill special pouches on their hind legs with it, using the perfume to attract lady friends, and they will endure any hardship to smell their best. The upper part of the flower, in which the plant produces its oily perfume, has a waxy surface, made more slippery by the perfume itself. As the bees go about collecting their treasure, they usually slip and fall into the lower part of the flower—the “bucket” that gives the flower its name. Above the bucket is a gland that drips a watery fluid through a spigot, keeping the bucket partially filled. This species of orchid bee is just the right size and weight for the remarkable process that takes place during its visit to this fascinating flower. The bee, having fallen into the bottom of the bucket, would perish there in the liquid, unable to escape, were it not for a small “step” on the edge of the bucket. This step is just the right size and shape to enable the bee to pull itself out of the pool.
Alas, however, our bee would remain trapped in the flower were it not for a small tunnel located beyond the step. The tunnel, or tube, is just large enough for our species of orchid bee to pass through, and so he begins his escape. But just as he is about to exit to freedom, his escape tube contracts, holding the bee tightly in place. The contraction of this tube causes the secretion of a small amount of glue onto the bee’s back, but only upon a tiny, targeted area so as not to inhibit the bee’s ability to fly. Then two orange-coloured sacs containing pollen (when the flower is in its “male phase”) are pressed onto the glue. It takes around 45 minutes to an hour for the glue to set, after which the escape tube relaxes and the bee flies free, now carrying the only pollen sacs that flower will produce. Our bee, despite his harrowing adventure, still has his lady friends in mind, and is in no way deterred from visiting another bucket orchid of the same species to top up his cologne supply. Alas, during the gathering of more scent oil, he again finds himself plunged into the bucket of another bucket orchid. Doggedly, he climbs out of the pool using the convenient step and goes through the now-familiar tunnel to freedom. This time, if the orchid flower has entered its “female phase,” instead of pollen sacs awaiting him at the end of the tunnel, there is a small hook-like structure. This removes the pollen sacs from the bee’s back and causes them to open and pollinate the flower’s pistil, or female reproductive organ, beginning the process leading to the development of orchid seeds, and thus ensuring another generation of this incredible plant.


Interestingly, even Charles Darwin recognized that there was no indication in the fossil record of the “evolution” of flowers, as he noted in an 1881 letter to botanist Sir Joseph Hooker. Darwin never did offer an explanation as to how a process like “natural selection” was sufficient to create a complex symbiotic (that is, mutually beneficial) relationship such as we see in this instance. In fact, the bucket orchid’s mechanism of pollination seems quite contrary to the norms of Darwinian theory. Processes that make survival more difficult and more prone to failure are supposed by Darwinism to be eliminated through natural selection, yet in the case of the bucket orchid, a complex mechanism that requires a partnership with a single sub-species of bee—making survival even chancier—has flourished for millennia. Add to this the need of a simultaneous development of the highly specialized characteristics in the flower and pollinator, and a random process, such as described by Darwinian evolution, is totally improbable mathematically, without intelligent direction..
This unique process prevents significant cross-pollination with other orchid species, helping to preserve the genetics of these plants in a relatively unchanged state from generation to generation.

 

[Teddybrae]

After spid rdn the above I 'm reminded of another song. A lilting melody which sings:

"Hang on. Help is on the way ... I 'll be there as fast as I can."

And I 'm reminded of a joke told by Krishnamurti. A man came across another man looking for something on the ground. My keys, explained the seeker, I 'm looking for my keys. So is this is where you dropped them, asked the first man. No, said the second. I dropped them over there but here there's more light to see.


Get it?

 

[Ringodoggie]

I have studied the Bible for many years. I have read 8 or 9 of them cover to cover. From current distributions to the first 1611 KJ version. All of them are VERY different. I have also studied ancient Greek and Hebrew and have read and interpreted certain parts of ancient Greek and Hebrew scripts for myself.

I am not especially religious or spiritual. I believe in God and was raised Roman Catholic but no longer practice Catholicism.

I have found the following in 20+ years of Bible study.

1. Most modern interpretations are pure blasphemy. The interpretations have been changed SO much, it is a sin, literally.

2. What is taught in church is ANYTHING BUT what's in the Bible. Most churches take a passage or verse at random and the Priest/preacher/whatever gives HIS interpretation of it to the congregation. To me, that's like taking a wonderful story like Gone With The Wind and just picking a chapter and verse and reading it. OMG.... you are NOT going to understand the story that way. The Bible must be read from beginning to end for it to make sense..... just like any book.

The Old Testament and mostly the Torah (first five books) are mostly a guideline on how to live. When to fuck a women and be most likely to impregnate her. It tells a woman what to do when she's on her period. It tells us what foods are good (goat, sheep and cow) while it tells us, also, what not to eat (rats, shiteaters and bottom feeders.). It's really just a guide for ancient man to follow so he doesn't die off from disease and pestilence.

Later books just tell about the great Jewish horde, marching across the Middle East butchering and massacring everything in their path in the name of their god.

The New Testament is pretty cool as it talks about the life of Jesus but the later books, like the letters from Paul are all pretty boring.

OK, after 9+ Bibles and 20 years of study, here it is in a nutshell (my interpretation).

God/spacemen/whatever looked at this planet and saw the heathen uncivilized cultures. Picked what looks like the strongest/smartest one. Help them butcher off all the undesirable tribes.

Then, send your peace man (Jesus) to teach the remaining people how to live together in a communal tribe.

Pretty much a logical progression I would use if I were going to develop a plant of humanoids.


Here is the MOST important thing I learned from the Bible. Christians preach that you must believe in Jesus to get to Heaven. NOTHING COULD BE MORE MISQUOTED.


The pre-King James versions all say that you must believe in THE WAYS OF JESUS to get to Heaven.

I have friends who are Atheist. Stewie is the most generous, most wonderful and kind person I know (and, an incredible guitar player in my band). I have told him so many times that he walks in the path of Jesus WAY more than most of my "born again' Christian friends who lie, cheat and steal.... and go to church every Sunday. Even though he does not believe in God or Jesus I am quite sure he'll be on the fast path to Heaven when he dies. He doesn't even believe in afterlife so, if it DOES happen, it will be quite a surprise to him. LOL

God/Jesus/Spacemen/whatever all had the same message. Live in peace and harmony. Love and help your fellow man.

Unfortunately, it's not like that so I'll see you all in Hell.

 

[Ringodoggie]

If there is one passage in the bible that stands out today with the crooked politicians and the asshole lawyers in charge of the world.......


Luke. Chapter 11.


42 But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
43 Woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye love the uppermost seats in the synagogues, and greetings in the markets.
44 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are as graves which appear not, and the men that walk over them are not aware of them.
45 Then answered one of the lawyers, and said unto him, Master, thus saying thou reproachest us also.
46 And he said, Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers.
47 Woe unto you! for ye build the sepulchres of the prophets, and your fathers killed them.
48 Truly ye bear witness that ye allow the deeds of your fathers: for they indeed killed them, and ye build their sepulchres.
49 Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute:
50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation;
51 From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation.
52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.
53 And as he said these things unto them, the scribes and the Pharisees began to urge him vehemently, and to provoke him to speak of many things:
54 Laying wait for him, and seeking to catch something out of his mouth, that they might accuse him.


How can you not praise and adore someone who hates lawyers and judges. LOL

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

You don't have to be Christian or of any faith to have a deep love for humanity - and hope that all humanity will become humane - having or showing compassion or benevolence.

 

[bigtacofarmer]

You don't have to be Christian or of any faith to have a deep love for humanity - and hope that all humanity will become humane - having or showing compassion or benevolence.

The most frustrating part of all the political and religious conversations is getting some people to simply recognize the benefit of treating all humans as family. In my honest opinion, treating all humans with kindness threatens their consumer lifestyle.

 

[beta]

Capitalism requires that we work against each other, it inherently forces us to compete with 'others'.

Capitalism itself is contrary to the goal of treating all humans with kindness and compassion.

Capitalism itself is contrary to the goal of human well being.

The most frustrating part of all the political and religious conversations is getting some people to simply recognize the benefit of treating all humans as family. In my honest opinion, treating all humans with kindness threatens their consumer lifestyle.

 

[bigtacofarmer]

Capitalism requires that we work against each other, it inherently forces us to compete with 'others'.

Capitalism itself is contrary to the goal of treating all humans with kindness and compassion.

Capitalism itself is contrary to the goal of human well being.

Yup. I realized along time ago unchecked capitalism equals the greedy end up in power and the meek turn to slaves. Still blows my mind how glad the slaves are to support the ruling class that literally allows it coorperations to poison everything from our food to water to media. Then offer you a loan to get by after already working full time. Suckers

 

[Ringodoggie]

Greed is the worst sin.


Lust is my favorite.

 

[beta]

Still blows my mind how glad the slaves are to support the ruling class that literally allows it coorperations to poison everything from our food to water to media. Then offer you a loan to get by after already working full time. Suckers

Here's the trick - They're playing on our horrid tendency to see everything in a 'tribal' light. 'Us' vs 'Them'. It's the oldest trick in the book.

You don't have to stand FOR anything if you convince the rubes that the OTHERS are sub-human.

Tribalism will be the death of us.