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jamaican "lambsbread"

Som 2

Active member
My theory why Keralan, S African and Central American lines seem to be related to Thai/Se Asian is because these genetics arrived from Thailand/SE ASia to other areas (across the seas) aboard Trade Company ships (Dutch, Brits etc.)
Before the Europeans arrived in the Indian Ocean there was already a long standing sea based trade network that went back to at least 500 BC (the ancient Greeks wrote about it). It connected the east coast of Africa, the Persian Gulf, India, Southeast Asia and China. When the Portugese arrived on the Swahili Coast of Africa in the 1500s they found the wealthy locals eating off of Chinese porcelain and wearing silk. They had purchased these with the gold and ivory of the interior of Africa. Trade in that era required rope and sail. It would be logical that traders would want cannabis growing around the ports to repair and outfit ships. It is likely that cannabis was distributed throughout the entire Indian Ocean trade network this way. It wouldn't have been hemp because it doesn't perform well in the tropics. My guess is that it would have originally come from south India.

The Indian Ocean trade network would have created an interrelated tropical gene pool that then would have been drawn upon when Europeans needed to grow cannabis in the tropical areas of the New World.
 

ngakpa

Active member
Veteran
My guess is that it would have originally come from south India.

ganja is useless as a fibre source

hence why the British experimented (unsuccessfully) with cultivating hemp in tropical India in order to rig their ships

also, re. the other stuff you wrote:

maritime trade networks in Eurasia date back way earlier than 500 BCE (literally, thousands of years earlier)

just because stuff seems like it ought to have happened a certain way from our perspective, doesn't mean it did
 

ngakpa

Active member
Veteran
the plants what the Dutch brought out of India.

on any one day in 17th century Sumatra, you'd have had ships belonging to Thais, French, British, Dutch, Portuguese, Arabs, Indians etc. etc. etc.

just because the Dutch were the dominant colonial power in Indonesia, doesn't mean they were responsible for introducing Cannabis

as it stands, nobody knows for sure who introduced Cannabis to Indonesia, but the safest bet is the primary origin was India
 

mexcurandero420

See the world through a puff of smoke
Veteran
on any one day in 17th century Sumatra, you'd have had ships belonging to Thais, French, British, Dutch, Portuguese, Arabs, Indians etc. etc. etc.

just because the Dutch were the dominant colonial power in Indonesia, doesn't mean they were responsible for introducing Cannabis

as it stands, nobody knows for sure who introduced Cannabis to Indonesia, but the safest bet is the primary origin was India

Like I wrote above it could be the Persians too.Long before the Dutch became the colonial power there was already trade in spices between the people of Indonesia and China.The Chinese were looking for cloves, so it could be the Chinese who brought Cannabis to Indonesia.
 

ngakpa

Active member
Veteran
Like I wrote above it could be the Persians too.Long before the Dutch became the colonial power there was already trade in spices between the people of Indonesia and China.The Chinese were looking for cloves, so it could be the Chinese who brought Cannabis to Indonesia.

could be - could have been the Martians too - it's just orders of magnitude less likely

how many hashish smokers you've met also carry seeds around with them?

how well would Persian (Iranian, Afghan) strains do in Sumatra?

or Chinese hemp?

by contrast, everything points to Indians... the language, the economy, proxmity, culture, botany etc.
 

ngakpa

Active member
Veteran
It would be logical that traders would want cannabis growing around the ports to repair and outfit ships.

in fact, other species were used

the main species used for cordage, nets etc. in tropical India is "sunn hemp", i.e. Crotalaria juncea
 

@hempy

The Haze Whisperer
ganja is useless as a fibre source

hence why the British experimented (unsuccessfully) with cultivating hemp in tropical India in order to rig their ships

also, re. the other stuff you wrote:

maritime trade networks in Eurasia date back way earlier than 500 BCE (literally, thousands of years earlier)

just because stuff seems like it ought to have happened a certain way from our perspective, doesn't mean it did


The British Empire used cannabis for fiber seed and oil were they had problems was in Canada.

These plants ended up as wild crops in several locations in what is now Australia 2 states of the country and The last of the wild crops were eradicated in the 70s.

You should research Sir Joseph Banks he brought cannabis on the first ships to Australia.

Then you have the Indian Hemp DrugCommiss
Physical, Mental, and Moral Effects of Marijuana: The Indian Hemp Drugs Commission Report

https://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/library/effects.htm



Ship trade routs is how cannabis got to places like Jamaica.
 

mexcurandero420

See the world through a puff of smoke
Veteran
could be - could have been the Martians too - it's just orders of magnitude less likely

how many hashish smokers you've met also carry seeds around with them?

how well would Persian (Iranian, Afghan) strains do in Sumatra?

or Chinese hemp?

by contrast, everything points to Indians... the language, the economy, proxmity, culture, botany etc.

I was talking about merchants and yeah they can be fond of hashish or marijuana too.

Good question but don't think that varieties from arid areas will do very well in a humid climate.Perhaps they tried it but didn't succeed, although Cannabis can acclimatise fast in a different environment, but not that fast.That's why the people in Aceh recognised the plants in the coffee plantations.

South of China is humid and that counts also for the south of India like Kerala, where black pepper is grown.

Btw familiar with ketjap (sweet soy sauce).Soy sauce was a Chinese invention.
 

ngakpa

Active member
Veteran
The British Empire used cannabis for fiber seed and oil were they had problems was in Canada.

the British Empire had huge problems due to lack of hemp fibre to rig the Royal Navy and Merchant Marine, particularly when at war with Imperial Russia - because Britain imported most of its hemp fibre from the Baltics

as said, ganja (not hemp) is useless as a source of fibre for cordage

hence why the British experimented with hemp production in tropical India... ultimately this failed


fwiw, there was an extensive botanical survey of Jamaiaca in 1807... zero presence of Cannabis was found
 

Roms

Well-known member
Veteran
fwiw, there was an extensive botanical survey of Jamaiaca in 1807... zero presence of Cannabis was found
+1

Few more pics by ChiefOrganic with ODW's F5 JLB. Purple pheno banana terps
picture.php

picture.php
 

Rembetis

Active member
That looks good Roms.

Whatever the origins may be it certainly evolved into something special on the island. Maybe it is the ultimate Sativa hybrid, Indian, Columbian and ??? created by Mother Natures own hand !!!
 

Roms

Well-known member
Veteran
Peace Rembetis thanks!

Also grand merci to Satva for this quote from Rahan and the Hindu relationship :

From Cannabiogen Club / Landrace / Jamaican Lambsbread

Re: Jamaican lambsbread
Postby John Public » Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:29 pm

Both strains (Indian Mumbai mithai and Jamaican lambsbread) grew the same, you know, very hard sativa for indoor, tall and lanky with very narrow leaves and many leaflets. Both smelled that fat heavy sweet herbal odor when stem rubbed, the Jamaican being stronger. The lambsbread is quicker to finish, say 14-18 weeks agains 16-20 for the Indian. Production is better for the Jamaican but I did not finish the common grow as said before, so it is a comparison a bit false as my experience with flowers is done in different conditions. Flowering smell is maybe a bit more fruity for the Jamaican and more spicy for the Indian. Highs differ slighty although both are pure untouched cerebral sativa highs. The Jamaican is a bit more energetic whereas the Indian is more goofy funny, never stress. The high of the indian lasts very long, maybe 3 hours and a half - 4 hours. The indian is good in any situation, from party to music listening and meditation. Both are incredible, the Jamaican being a bit more serious maybe, if you see what I mean. The indian is simply an incredible freak herb. It's a shame she is so hard and so long to grow. The Jamaican is easier, with less hermies, although still very difficult indoor. Outdoor seems impossible without greenhouse and southern climate for both strains. Both are excellent strains in my humble opinion, two of the best I grew and smoked, top five without problem.

picture.php
Ethiopia/India sea route btw... Mix Mumbai/Kerala

picture.php


Anyone with news about this Mumbai mithai line from TheVibesCollective and Rahan?

The 4 way cross JLB*Kerala x Highland Ethiopia*Mumbai Mithai just sounds perfect! :D
 
fwiw, there was an extensive botanical survey of Jamaica in 1807... zero presence of Cannabis was found
So that mean: Jamaican seeds therefore do not originate from the Spanish...
It was introduced later. Colombian weed trade road along the Caribean islands? Indian workers ?

Anyway, thank you all for all these info :kissgrin:
 

funkyhorse

Well-known member
From what I have seen and experienced, those ideas from the end of the XIX century based on collective ways of work, life or thinking are utopical, usually short-term and very difficult to implement because they get in conflict with the individual path of evolution which is different for everyone else
It seems the scripts are written before hand, the act is always the same and the only thing changing is actors
We can share the same road or path for a certain amount of time, but there will always be bifurcations on the way and thats when we have to make choices in life and see which is the correct path for us to follow
I think the best to do is acceptance of others choices and not force your point of view/path on others. All of them are legitimate and thats how you learn faster and better. Some might choose the path of mercantilism, others elitism, path of humanitariasm might enlight others, the hedonistic/epicurean path is also an interesting one.
It is very difficult to conciliate such different ways of life/thinking/paths into a cohesive entity
Cooperation for a certain project mantaining your own indepedence is what I see produces the best results and bring win/win situations

You guys are inspiration for others, I hope you can accept it. You generate some amazing brainstorming

It was an amazing revelation to read the word maconha is kimbundu language. It is even more amazing to see I use kimbundu words in my every day language. Angola has influenced all over the southern cone
Maconha is an anagram of canhamo which means hemp in portughese
Seeds were brought hidden tied to the thong of rag dolls around 1550
I hope you can translate from portughese, this is history of marihuana in Brazil:
https://www.scielo.br/pdf/jbpsiq/v5...kJoIVSKoD1_inESgZ2nktqAyCbZoNHtfu5-IjOm6ACsL0

Spanish introduced hemp to Chile
Page 76 from pdf: Quillotan hemp, a spanish heritage written in spanish
https://issuu.com/andresgonzalez77/docs/boletin_11

I believe the ones who brought ganja to the spanish colonies in South America were jesuits: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_of_Jesus

I smoked sudanese end of 80's/beginning of 90's. Sudanese back then were cheap migrant workers in Sinai, same like burmese, cambodian or lao workers in Thailand
The sudanese coming to work were taking big risks for bringing in their own stash. Bedouins were laughing at them for that hash and they were making fun of them and they were showing off to backpackers and sharing with everybody using expressions like "look what kind of rubbish they smoke" and of course sudanese had to agree after they smoked the bedouin stuff. Sudanese brought a very dark hash which had no high, local sinai bedouin strain was top notch
North Sudan is same weather and same soil like Sinai and all around the Red Sea, if the plants found from Sudan are good quality, then my bet is the sudanese migrant workers brought seeds back from Sinai with them when returning after work season

Continuing with the post on the viking thread, I think henbane must be something like San Pedro and other entheogens, some varieties must be significantly stronger than others growing in other areas, being the one growing in Sinai probably the strongest, it is very famous
I dont believe hash was used as sacrament like is the case of henbane. It is rumored that Moses was under the influence of henbane when he wrote the ten commandments
The only religion I know of that uses cannabis as sacrament is Cefluris(https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centro_Ecl%C3%A9tico_da_Fluente_Luz_Universal_Raimundo_Irineu_Serra) but it seems from the wiki link that the use of Santa Maria has been suspended at least publicly.
Scythians were making a kind of temazcal with hemp leaves, could that be considered a sacramental ritualistic use?

Have a nice week everyone
 

ChiefOrganic

New member
That looks good Roms.

Whatever the origins may be it certainly evolved into something special on the island. Maybe it is the ultimate Sativa hybrid, Indian, Columbian and ??? created by Mother Natures own hand !!!

What I've found is that this strain evolved to grow vigorously through low NPK soil that is VERY red rich in limestone (calcium and magnesium) and pH over 7!!! Not typical for cannabis, but replicating the St. Ann climate has done wonders for cultivating the lambsbread indoora. It's common for them to have 75%+ humidity in the flowering cycle, and they will show leaf yellowing in the 50s and below!

So you have the nature aspect of evolution, but also the spiritual aspect of revolution. This is a sacred plant with very intense spiritual effects. That was only made possible by the rasta community that selected the most entheogenic-like plants for breeding.


As far as origins? Just like many of the people of Jamaica, I think the genes go back to west/central/south african landraces. JLB is remiscent of a racy/trippy African sativa that was selected for more introspection and less paranoia ;)


As far as
 

Rembetis

Active member
What I've found is that this strain evolved to grow vigorously through low NPK soil that is VERY red rich in limestone (calcium and magnesium) and pH over 7!!! Not typical for cannabis, but replicating the St. Ann climate has done wonders for cultivating the lambsbread indoora. It's common for them to have 75%+ humidity in the flowering cycle, and they will show leaf yellowing in the 50s and below!

Yes that is very true and I believe that most of the Tropical areas of the Western Hemisphere have the same conditions regarding Limestone and highly Mineralized water. My own well water is like that and I have had people telling me I need to fix my water but I have no issues so why? My Landraces do very well.

People see lush Tropical vegetation and mistake that for fertility when the truth is that the Jungle is very infertile as we know from some landraces inability to handle much in the way of Nutes
 

arbac

Active member
"Double jam" (Jamaica Lambsbread x Jamaica blue mountains) select towards phenotypes more towards India.
I was eliminating the Mexican, the African and the Colombian
 

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Rembetis

Active member
Please give us a smoke report when it is ready. I have Double Jam going now but it is in the early stages of flowering so I have months to go.
 
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