Is it possible that reality is not what you think?...yes?/no?...lol

[HempKat]

Yes, more often than not, but if we didn't have people pointing at
discrepancies in the structures, we would still be thinking that the
earth is flat and that the earth (instead of the sun) is the center
of the entire universe.

You do know that wasn't as widely held a belief as many people seem to think it is. There is evidence in existence of people well before the time of Columbus that understood the earth was not flat.

The center of the universe belief was limited to very few people and it was mostly in a religious context. Back then most people didn't have the education and intelligence to think about the nature of the universe.

And how about if I told you 30 years ago that you could walk around
almost anywhere in the world and talk on a cordless phone, or that
you could sit at home and post pictures on a screen and post words
on a screen an in milliseconds someone else on the other side of the
world would see them on their screen and then could do the same
thing and you would see them on your screen also???

Would you think I was crazy???

No because 30 years ago technology was advancing at a rapid rate so to hear certain breakthrus will happen in 30 years that changes how people do things, would not be that farfetched. Now if you tried to explain how you knew these things from 30 years in the future then I might think you were crazy.

 

[southflorida]

You do know that wasn't as widely held a belief as many people seem to think it is. There is evidence in existence of people well before the time of Columbus that understood the earth was not flat.

The center of the universe belief was limited to very few people and it was mostly in a religious context. Back then most people didn't have the education and intelligence to think about the nature of the universe.

well, isn't it strange that today, we have two different views, one
scientific which says there is no God, only objectivity, and the
religious which pretty much says that God is doing everything?

No because 30 years ago technology was advancing at a rapid rate so to hear certain breakthrus will happen in 30 years that changes how people do things, would not be that farfetched. Now if you tried to explain how you knew these things from 30 years in the future then I might think you were crazy.

I arrived in America in 1980 and I was 10. If somebody told me these
things at that time I would tell them that they are CRAZY for sure.

In 1981 I remember playing tennis on my friend's Atari and thought
that was really far out...lol...So thinking I would use a mobile and
the internet on a daily basis would be real in those days, was 100%
outof the question...at least for me. I was 10, my thoughts were
mostly in the domain of thoughts and Playboy pictures. Penthouse
were also interesting, but since I didn't know what to do with those
"things" it didn't make much difference.

BTW...The tennis in the Atari below I'm talking about two sticks on the
opposite sides and the slow moving ball back and forth, not the
more advanced versions that showed up later.

 

[ibjamming]

You do know that wasn't as widely held a belief as many people seem to think it is. There is evidence in existence of people well before the time of Columbus that understood the earth was not flat.

The center of the universe belief was limited to very few people and it was mostly in a religious context. Back then most people didn't have the education and intelligence to think about the nature of the universe.



No because 30 years ago technology was advancing at a rapid rate so to hear certain breakthrus will happen in 30 years that changes how people do things, would not be that farfetched. Now if you tried to explain how you knew these things from 30 years in the future then I might think you were crazy.

People thought the earth was flat from when the first human though about it...right up through around the year 1...+/- a thousand years. So, EVERYONE who lived before the year 1 thought the world was flat (100,000 years or more)...it's ONLY after the modern cultures that have math do people BEGIN to realize the truth. The CHURCH were the ones perpetuating the flat earth ideas...and the CHURCH were those times equivalent to the universities... Yes, the OFFICIAL education system falsely taught (yup they knew) lies...as they STILL do. so actually, it's is very recent that people knew the earth was round.

Love this line... "Back then most people didn't have the education and intelligence to think about the nature of the universe." Really? You think you're THAT special? That much better, more intelligent, than your stone aged cousins? I thought you were a "everyone's equal" kind of guy? That's pretty bigoted of you to think ANYONE before the year 1 is an idiot. so...in your opinion...people were idiots, morons, incapable of abstract thought...before "modern times"? I'm just trying to get into your head...I find inconsistencies.

Acutally..."technology" is a broad word. Our LIVES changed more between 1800 and 1900 than they did between 1900 and 2000. IMO of course. The 1800s brought us from agrarian (independent) to industrial (specialized and dependent)...we got the "computer age". We have more iGadgets...that's about it. Housing, transportation, food production is all basically the same. "miniaturization", nuclear, and medicine are the big 3 winners for the 1900s. Socially, we've gone down. We were better off in the 1800s with the strong extended families than now with more single mothers raising children than ever before. We're a mess as a society...and the "progressives" keep making it worse.

just a few thoughts for you...

We truly DO see things 180 degrees apart...

 

[HempKat]

It's worse than I thought...the mental disorder... Son of Sam was spoken to by a dog...what's the difference between that and a burning bush or a dove

I never said there was a difference, then again son of sam has nothing to do with the point that there is no documentation on the planet that has ever said God is some guy who lives in space and spies on you, which is what you stated that you believe God to be. Nothing that describes his physical appearence other then things like the biblical stories of Moses and the Burning Bush or how a dove came down from the heavens when Christ was Baptised saying that Christ was his son in whom he was well pleased.

God knows EVERYTHING? Before it happens? Then WHAT'S THE POINT of even being born? God already knows what I'm going to do. Whether I'm going to heaven or hell...is it just to go through the motions? Take up space? To fuck with the "believers"?

Hey it's not my fault that religions teach that God is Omnicient (All Knowing) if you got a problem with that you go take it up with any of the organized religions. There is not one religion out there that teaches that there are things God does not know. Of course in my opinion it's the claim of omnicience that makes me not believe in God. The bible teaches that we are all sinners because Eve talked Adam in to disobeying God's command to not eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge. Well if God was all knowing then why bother to give such a command knowing they would break it and why punish everyone that ever was or ever will be, for something he knew Adam and Eve would do in spite of his command?

I fear the ONLY religion you know "well" is Christianity...and you probably don't know that very well either.

For someone who supposedly doesn't believe...you sure defend it a lot.

Why would you possibly fear what I know about religion? Do you often run about irrationally fearing the things people might know? Oh and sorry to disppoint you but pointing out your misunderstanding of religion does not automatically equate to defending it. It's simply what it is, me pointing out you don't know what you're talking about.

You description of WHAT most people believe tells me they ARE delusional...as delusional as those who believe other weird shit and are locked up for it. It's OK to believe in all kinds of wacky shit...as long as it's an "accepted" religion. It's hypocritical!

Ah I see, so because you don't like religion most of the people in the world are delusional? Get over yourself.

Yes...well done! We're conditioned from our first year of life to "believe" the bullshit that is religion. We're brainwashed at an EARLY age. It SHOULD be considered child abuse!

Actually most churches don't start teaching children anything until well beyond the first year of life

 

[southflorida]

Here's another great resource for anyone interested in how our
thinking works by David Bohm:

http://www.wepapers.com/Papers/126100/Thought_As_a_System_-_David_Bohm

This is also free to read online, and I wanted my friends here on
icmag.com to have this book so that maybe you can improve your
thinking and we can slowly change the world one slow step at a time.

I think people that grow and smoke weed have a great opportunity
to see things differently and to make a difference in the long run.

Maybe it is because we see how the government and big business
do everything to keep us down, and this perception helps us to see
that things might not be as we have been taught by society/culture.

 

[HempKat]

well, isn't it strange that today, we have two different views, one
scientific which says there is no God, only objectivity, and the
religious which pretty much says that God is doing everything?

First of all there are many more views then just the two you cite and no, there's nothing strange that after centuries of time many differing views of the nature of things have evolved.

I arrived in America in 1980 and I was 10. If somebody told me these
things at that time I would tell them that they are CRAZY for sure.

In 1981 I remember playing tennis on my friend's Atari and thought
that was really far out...lol...So thinking I would use a mobile and
the internet on a daily basis would be real in those days, was 100%
outof the question...at least for me. I was 10, my thoughts were
mostly in the domain of thoughts and Playboy pictures. Penthouse
were also interesting, but since I didn't know what to do with those
"things" it didn't make much difference.

Well in '81 I was more then twice your age and was aware of many things that were once thought impossible but were now reality such as man walking on the moon. Plus cellphones have been around since the 70's it just took until the 2000's before they became widespread.

 

[southflorida]

First of all there are many more views then just the two you cite and no, there's nothing strange that after centuries of time many differing views of the nature of things have evolved.

The majority of people I directly have known have held one or
the other. Maybe you have known some people that have a third
or fourth view. By this, I mean that the people I have known have
believed that it is God that is creating everything, or that Nature
is creating everything. To me, it has always seemed that these
were one and the same, but that thought would lean more toward
the first. There might be the third view that say the don't know,
but I would doubt this, because human nature is to know, and
living in the not-knowing is quite uncomfortable.

Well in '81 I was more then twice your age and was aware of many things that were once thought impossible but were now reality such as man walking on the moon. Plus cellphones have been around since the 70's it just took until the 2000's before they became widespread.

I guess I learn something new every day, I didn't know that mobile
phones were already working in the 70's, this is really interesting.

Okay, how about if you lived in 1870 and I told you about mobile
phones and internet? That would make a small difference wouldn't it?

 

[BrainSellz]

below

 

[BrainSellz]

Obviously no one knows which
came first

however if you think about it, the egg would have had to be here first, its kinda like a seed or a thought....you cant get a car before its thought of and then built....a plant started from seed, which would only make sense that you cant get a chicken without an egg....i would think this planet was very capable of providing those eggs in the beginning....she seems to sew everything up just perfect....amo

on the title...being if you lie then your life WILL be one big illusion and if you live a truthful life then in my opinion its very real my man...

 

[CrumpleZone]

It Is What It Is, Unless It Isn't Yet:

It Is What It Is, Unless It Isn't Yet:

Also I don't think it's fair to say that the future is a creation of the mind the future is what it is. We can make preditions about the future based on observations from the past but those predictions may or may not be true. Just because you imagine a future doesn't mean it will happen but the longer your past becomes, the more you have to draw from and the more likely your predictions will be accurate.

Unless you believe in Predestination (that would be sad), The future can't be "what it is", because the future just isn't yet. And the future won't/can't be "what it is" until it becomes (wait for it) ...Now.

What you believe (key word), in specific terms, the future to be is nothing more than; a wish, a fantasy, a dream, a nightmare, a prophecy, a prediction, a forecast, a belief ...you get my drift, reader's choice.

Whatever you think it may become, the future, by definition, is something that has never been. When the "future" finally arrives for you it isn't the future. It is only Now, which is all there has ever been for human beings. Now.

PS: Regarding the poll: I don't think reality is a black and white issue, so there need to be more choices. There are different types of Reality.

 

[HempKat]

Unless you believe in Predestination (that would be sad), The future can't be "what it is", because the future just isn't yet. And the future won't/can't be "what it is" until it becomes (wait for it) ...Now.

What you believe (key word), in specific terms, the future to be is nothing more than a wish, a fantasy, a dream, a nightmare, a prophecy, a prediction, a forecast, you get my drift, whatever you choose.

Whatever you think it may become, the future, by definition, is something that has never been. When the "future" finally arrives for you it isn't the future. It is only Now, which is all there has ever been for human beings. Now.

PS: Regarding the poll: I don't think reality is a black and white issue, so there need to be more choices. There are different types of Reality.

You're getting too caught up in the terminology. When I say the future is what it is, I mean that it's not you or anyone else controlling it by thinking about it. I guess I should have said the future is whatever it will be.

 

[CrumpleZone]

I don't think Terminology is the problem at all

I don't think Terminology is the problem at all

You're getting too caught up in the terminology. When I say the future is what it is, I mean that it's not you or anyone else controlling it by thinking about it. I guess I should have said the future is whatever it will be.

I think that you are misunderstanding me. You said that it is unfair to call the future a creation of the mind. I am saying that the future can only exist in the mind. I can't respond to what you thought you meant, I only have the words you give me to work with

 

[southflorida]

The idea that all there is - is mind/consciousness is a difficult thing
to grasp, the ego/intellect combination will fight this to the end.

Only those that are on the edge, for whatever reason can ever grasp
this Big Truth, the folks in the center, where it's nice and comfortable
will always deny this. Nothing wrong with this position, well maybe only
one thing...and it is that...

...it is FALSE

Just in case anybody reading this post likes the Prodigy, here's the official
Smack My Bitch Up Video, with one of the best base lines in a song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BpfydZdTE0

Listening to it really loud with great earphones really is the sh*t !!!

 

[Greensub]

Clearly science has been aware of consciousness for a very long time,
it's just that the majority of the LAZY scientists sitting on their
lazy asses and being paid with your taxes keep ignoring this area
because it takes more work and is based on the subjective reality
(which is the only reality there is) as far as we are concerned.

No need for attack

The only "real" reality is consciousness and evolution, everything
else is a simulation and has always been. The evidence is right in
front of our eyes if we put the cultural beliefs/assumptions aside
for a few moments and actually observe while being open minded
and sceptical at the same time.

It's not that I disagree with everything you've said... just your conclusions. I don't see a strong logical argument for your facts to follow from your propositions.

Of course my own personal belief is that there is no such thing as a fact (logically speaking... I can explain that if you want, it's kind of lengthy)

You're asking people to believe in your conclusion as a fact.

 

[Greensub]

well, isn't it strange that today, we have two different views, one
scientific which says there is no God, only objectivity, and the
religious which pretty much says that God is doing everything?

Science doesn't say there is no God... It just hasn't shown that there is a God. Religions have all kinds of varying views of what or who God is and what he is or is not doing.

I arrived in America in 1980 and I was 10. If somebody told me these
things at that time I would tell them that they are CRAZY for sure.

In 1981 I remember playing tennis on my friend's Atari and thought
that was really far out...lol...So thinking I would use a mobile and
the internet on a daily basis would be real in those days, was 100%
outof the question...at least for me. I was 10, my thoughts were
mostly in the domain of thoughts and Playboy pictures. Penthouse
were also interesting, but since I didn't know what to do with those
"things" it didn't make much difference.

BTW...The tennis in the Atari below I'm talking about two sticks on the
opposite sides and the slow moving ball back and forth, not the
more advanced versions that showed up later.

You're thinking of Pong.

 

[Greensub]

People thought the earth was flat from when the first human though about it...right up through around the year 1...+/- a thousand years. So, EVERYONE who lived before the year 1 thought the world was flat (100,000 years or more)...it's ONLY after the modern cultures that have math do people BEGIN to realize the truth. The CHURCH were the ones perpetuating the flat earth ideas...and the CHURCH were those times equivalent to the universities... Yes, the OFFICIAL education system falsely taught (yup they knew) lies...as they STILL do. so actually, it's is very recent that people knew the earth was round.

Love this line... "Back then most people didn't have the education and intelligence to think about the nature of the universe." Really? You think you're THAT special? That much better, more intelligent, than your stone aged cousins? I thought you were a "everyone's equal" kind of guy? That's pretty bigoted of you to think ANYONE before the year 1 is an idiot. so...in your opinion...people were idiots, morons, incapable of abstract thought...before "modern times"? I'm just trying to get into your head...I find inconsistencies.

Acutally..."technology" is a broad word. Our LIVES changed more between 1800 and 1900 than they did between 1900 and 2000. IMO of course. The 1800s brought us from agrarian (independent) to industrial (specialized and dependent)...we got the "computer age". We have more iGadgets...that's about it. Housing, transportation, food production is all basically the same. "miniaturization", nuclear, and medicine are the big 3 winners for the 1900s. Socially, we've gone down. We were better off in the 1800s with the strong extended families than now with more single mothers raising children than ever before. We're a mess as a society...and the "progressives" keep making it worse.

just a few thoughts for you...

We truly DO see things 180 degrees apart...

Although I love to argue politics... let's not get off on a progressive Vs conservatives tangent in this thread.

 

[Greensub]

The majority of people I directly have known have held one or
the other. Maybe you have known some people that have a third
or fourth view. By this, I mean that the people I have known have
believed that it is God that is creating everything, or that Nature
is creating everything. To me, it has always seemed that these
were one and the same, but that thought would lean more toward
the first. There might be the third view that say the don't know,
but I would doubt this, because human nature is to know, and
living in the not-knowing is quite uncomfortable.

I'm quite comfortable not knowing, the only reality is that no one knows... That's at least a third view, Deists would be a fourth (If I recollect, Deists belive good created the universe and then left it on it's own). What do Hindus believe? Buddhists? Shinto? Native American Beliefs? Druids, Wicca, Satanist's?

Not only those, but people within these subsets are going argue about the details themselves

I guess I learn something new every day, I didn't know that mobile
phones were already working in the 70's, this is really interesting.

Okay, how about if you lived in 1870 and I told you about mobile
phones and internet? That would make a small difference wouldn't it?

Are you saying you've come back from the future to reveal the "truth" to us?

It might have depended on who you were talking to... If you'd been speaking with Tesla maybe he would have nodded and said "sure sure, I can see how that would work".

 

[southflorida]

No need for attack

I wrote the majority, pointing at the center, the ones that the
people look toward for real answers!

And what do they get? Scientists that are paid by the big corporations,
and by the government officials working hand in hand with the huge
corporations.

Just check out the weight loss problem, and all the consequences
of the government and the scientific ignorance in this area. Check
out what the government suggests people eat in their reports, it
is just outrageous. And it is like this is every domain.

There is not one place where money doesn't decide everything,
not one, and most likely never will be.

It's not that I disagree with everything you've said... just your conclusions. I don't see a strong logical argument for your facts to follow from your propositions.

Of course my own personal belief is that there is no such thing as a fact (logically speaking... I can explain that if you want, it's kind of lengthy)

You're asking people to believe in your conclusion as a fact.

I can't make anyone believe anything I say, it is IMPOSSIBLE, so
obviously I'm not doing this. I'm just writing what I think, no more,
no less. I truly hope everyone is sceptical and simultaneously
open minded, and will observe what is true and false based ONLY
on their direct experiences in their subjective/objective realities.

Science doesn't say there is no God... It just hasn't shown that there is a God. Religions have all kinds of varying views of what or who God is and what he is or is not doing.

Really? Which science doesn't? As far as I am aware, the majority
of scientists (99.9%) confirm that there is NOTHING except the
objective reality, and obviously God is in the subjective domain.

Or did I not understand something about the majority of scientists?

You're thinking of Pong.

Is that what it was called? Had a lot of good times playing that simple
game. Then came Asteroids, and later one of my all-time favorites
the Galaxian...I believe it was called. Don't know how many hours
I played that game in the bowling alley near my house in Ft. Lauderdale
freakin high out of my mind from smoking Jamaican Bud. I was only
13, and it was probably the most magical time in my life. Especially
because it was when I started getting "some" from the chicks
hanging out in the bowling alley. The weed helped a lot, and most
of the nerds never knew my "little" secret, why all the chicks were
so easy for me to bring back to my house on a regular basis.

None of the chicks shared my secret...for some reason

Which was just fine with me, because I didn't really like getting
high by myself anyway!

 

[barnyard]

let's not confuse meaning and reality

 

[southflorida]

I'm quite comfortable not knowing, the only reality is that no one knows... That's at least a third view, Deists would be a fourth (If I recollect, Deists belive good created the universe and then left it on it's own). What do Hindus believe? Buddhists? Shinto? Native American Beliefs? Druids, Wicca, Satanist's?

Not only those, but people within these subsets are going argue about the details themselves

true...it is impossible to KNOW.

but, it is possible to be consciously aware from direct experience,
and then you don't have to know, you can continue to live in the
state of not-knowing which is the original/authentic state.

Are you saying you've come back from the future to reveal the "truth" to us?

It might have depended on who you were talking to... If you'd been speaking with Tesla maybe he would have nodded and said "sure sure, I can see how that would work".

I'm talking about letting everyone living back then to take a poll,
and answer these questions. This is just hypothetically, of course.

But, that Campbell dude writes that we can go to the Big Computer
running our virtual realities, and check out what would happen if we
did something back in those days.

We could see the results, but the reality could not be changed, of
course, because this would go against the rule-set that consciousness
has set up - for obvious reasons.

But, if consciousness (The Big Dude) wanted to do this, obviously
it could do that, and when this experiment is done (our virtual reality
simulation of this physical reality) it will pull the plug. We most likely
will not evolve forever. The way the world is going now, some crazy
mo-fo is going to push the button one day.

The fact that we as human have 100% free will - makes this a very
high probability in the future !!!

I wouldn't bet my life against it...that's for sure