Is it possible that reality is not what you think?...yes?/no?...lol

[cashmunny]

At the quantum mechanical level it is scientifically correct to state that we "create" reality. For example, electrons do not exist in discrete locations. They are smeared throughout space as a probability density cloud. But when we make an attempt to measure or observe them there they are in a discrete state.

The problem arises when people try to extend this by analogy to the macroscopic world. At the level of plants and animals the laws of quantum mechanics degenerate to the usual Newtonian mechanics.

 

[Greensub]

you project your beliefs on what you think everyone else thinks.

Pot... meet kettle...

First of all few if any people that believe in God think that he is just some guy. Few if any believe he lives in space. Few if any believe he spies on us. Finally, most believe that we ourselves decide where we go by our deeds and actions and thoughts, and that God is just tallying up those deeds, actions and thoughts.

What most people believe is that God is a spiritual entity devoid of human form rather then "some guy". If people thought he was just "some guy" there would be stories in the bible of him appearing that way rather then as a burning bush or a dove. What most people believe is that God is Omnipresent, this means he lives everywhere, all at once. The people that believe he lives in space died off centuries ago and used to believe the stars were tiny pinholes of light God placed in the heavens. What most people believe is God is Omnicient, this means he knows everything even before it happened. That he knows you and your entire life and everything you do in it even before you are born. That's why the bible refers to him as the Alpha and the Omega.

(emphasis added)

 

[med_breeder]

This is a very interesting thread. There has been many great points presented here. This thread reminded me of that Fritzl case in Austria.
A man raped and imprisoned his daughter in an underground bunker for 24 years! His daughter was impregnated 8 times, 6 survived, and 3 were raised in the real world by Fritzl, 3 were raised underground in the dungeon.
When Fritzl was raided there were 3 kids that had never been to the surface. Ages 19,18, and 5.

What is Reality?
Was the 19 years that the eldest spent underground real?
The Dungeon was real.
They had a TV set. The images they saw were "real" ish.

Fritzl's daughter was imprisoned when she was 18, so she had something to compare the dungeon to.

But her kids, knew no other world than the dungeon.
When they saw for example a couple walking on a beach on tv, to them it must have been like watching a sci-fi flick.

If the mom ever told her kids about the outside world, I wonder if they just rolled their eyes. I wonder if they thought their mom was "crazy" for believing in an "Outside world."

Maybe somewhere deep within all the kids, they knew that something was wrong. Was their a side of them, that no matter how hard they tried, they could not accept that the dungeon was the real world.

In this context,
the day the cops raided Fritzl's dungeon, it may have been like "The Rapture" for them.

I wonder if the real world as they know it ,is Heaven or Hell for them...

 

[HempKat]

Pot... meet kettle...



(emphasis added)

How can I be projecting my beliefs on someone simply by saying most people believe something that I personally don't believe? Or didn't you know I don't believe in God? At least not how he is described by any religion.

I have studied enough religion to be able to confidently say what most people do believe and I can guarentee you it's not that "Some guy living in space is spying on us to pass judgement on us when we die." That's the satirical view that anti -religion people use to make religion seem as riddiculous as possible.

 

[StoneByName]

Reality is what we perceive isn't it? This is how we interpret the world, even if our senses are not entirely accurate reality is a human concept based on what we can sense and understand. I'm sure everyone would be different if they were not exposed to the social conditioning they have experienced, conditioning is very pervasive. I think it is a matter of perspective as reality is not a constant, I think each person has a different idea of reality which is true to them.

 

[hunt4genetics]

This is a very interesting thread. There has been many great points presented here. This thread reminded me of that Fritzl case in Austria.
A man raped and imprisoned his daughter in an underground bunker for 24 years! His daughter was impregnated 8 times, 6 survived, and 3 were raised in the real world by Fritzl, 3 were raised underground in the dungeon.
When Fritzl was raided there were 3 kids that had never been to the surface. Ages 19,18, and 5.

What is Reality?
Was the 19 years that the eldest spent underground real?
The Dungeon was real.
They had a TV set. The images they saw were "real" ish.

Fritzl's daughter was imprisoned when she was 18, so she had something to compare the dungeon to.

But her kids, knew no other world than the dungeon.
When they saw for example a couple walking on a beach on tv, to them it must have been like watching a sci-fi flick.

If the mom ever told her kids about the outside world, I wonder if they just rolled their eyes. I wonder if they thought their mom was "crazy" for believing in an "Outside world."

Maybe somewhere deep within all the kids, they knew that something was wrong. Was their a side of them, that no matter how hard they tried, they could not accept that the dungeon was the real world.

In this context,
the day the cops raided Fritzl's dungeon, it may have been like "The Rapture" for them.

I wonder if the real world as they know it ,is Heaven or Hell for them...

Wow Med!

When the kids got rescued,from a psychological point of view it must have been like an alien encounter!

If those kids ever write a book, and it get's translated into English, that's a must read.

 

[Joe Budden]

Are we human beings having a spiritual experience, or are we spiritual beings having a human experience?

 

[Greensub]

How can I be projecting my beliefs on someone simply by saying most people believe something that I personally don't believe? Or didn't you know I don't believe in God? At least not how he is described by any religion.

Ok... I was wondering about that, I was mainly responding to anyone actually claiming to Know what other people believe.

I have studied enough religion to be able to confidently say what most people do believe and I can guarentee you it's not that "Some guy living in space is spying on us to pass judgement on us when we die." That's the satirical view that anti -religion people use to make religion seem as riddiculous as possible.

Of course they don't say it that way, however I feel that your own description of what most people believe was equally as ridiculous.

When you say you've studied enough religion, are you referring to "one"... or "many"? I wasn't even aware most people agreed on who this God is when you take all the religions of the world and mix them in. When you said "most people believe" I assumed you were referring to everyone in the world... not one particular religion. I find it hard to believe that with all the various religions in the world that your blanket statements are applicable, there just seems to be too much diversity in religion to be able to sum it up nicely in two sentences.

I believe that everyone's beliefs are completely individual and distinct from one another... I believe that even when we think we are agreeing with someone's beliefs we're still projecting our flawed perception of they're explanation of their beliefs (we agree with our perception of understanding their explanation)

Like right now... I believe that we probably agree on quite a bit in reality, I describe myself as an agnostic for instance... but I bet we would have our own individualistic explanation for it that describes exactly what & why we believe what we believe.

Ok... I've forgotten my point now... sorry for the tangent.

 

[barnyard]

reality has inherent structures...

reality has inherent structures...

the Haze gets me going...the Indica makes me want to stay. Not because of what I believe but because of the chemical reactions within my body.

That's not to say that CONCEPTS and PERCEPTS don't influence each other, but we can't deny a fundamental reality.

Going back to "distinctions", we can only understand something within a context. If the entire world were orange we would not recognize the color orange. We only understand orange when its put in context with other colors.

The universe is dialectical. God requires Satan. Pain requires pleasure. etc etc...

 

[Rukind]

when you ask if reality is real or not, what is real? is real even really real?

sorry, im fuckin sssttttoooonnneeeddd lol

 

[southflorida]

That's a rather arrogant assumption on your part. Someone doesn't agree with your point of view and so you assume they're not wanting to evolve. Maybe it's you who are wrong and not they, maybe it's you still needing to evolve to catch up to them?

...I never said I wasn't one of the one's that are not evolving

...to be quite honest, there were times in my life I felt like I was
evolving, other times like I was standing still, and most of the time
like I was de-evolving, or rolling down the hill.

...from our perceptions we can only judge if we ourselves are evolving
or not based on our results, and from these judgments make further
judgments if we are evolving or not evolving or simply standing in one
place. Most of the time we are either going up or down, standing
still is not a stable position because the "evolution" structure has
the evolving and de-evolving elements pulling us back and forth.

 

[southflorida]

More often then not when you got a bunch of people on one side of a fence all in agreement and just one or two on the other side of the fence who disagree with everyone else, it turns out the one or two disagreeing are the ones that are wrong.

Yes, more often than not, but if we didn't have people pointing at
discrepancies in the structures, we would still be thinking that the
earth is flat and that the earth (instead of the sun) is the center
of the entire universe.

And how about if I told you 30 years ago that you could walk around
almost anywhere in the world and talk on a cordless phone, or that
you could sit at home and post pictures on a screen and post words
on a screen an in milliseconds someone else on the other side of the
world would see them on their screen and then could do the same
thing and you would see them on your screen also???

Would you think I was crazy???

Your reasoning for believing the guy you quote is flawed. He's a scientist and so therefore to state his belief publically he must have evidence? He can't have evidence because the point he's making is that reality is subjective. If he had evidence he would present it. That's what scientists do, they study things, record their observations, draw conclusions and then share their results and conclusions. They don't go around just making unsupported claims and expect everyone to trust that because they're scientists that the must have evidence.

The studies he did in labs, imho were the evidence that he was
using to state his claims, I mean he is not some kid that was playing
around in the sand box and came up with a theory.

And how can one be so sure that the subjective is not more real than
the objective?

For example, when you have your dreams, do they seem objective
to you? Obviously yes. And from where you are now, they seem
subjective...right?

So subjective and objective depend on the viewpoint of the
perceiver. Whatever we are perceiving at this moment we consider
objective, and everything else subjective. And this is the wall that
the majority of the "objectivity is all there is" scientists have hit
many, many years ago, and are still standing nex to this wall shaking
their heads not knowing what to do about it.

This is why they are not studying this part, because they don't know
what to do with this wall. They are out there getting trillions of dollars
in funding to study the "small picture" which is already known.

But the "big picture" from which this small picture is created, or
to be more correctly said is a "sub-set" of...is being studied by the
very few scientists that are out on the edge.

Why? Because the center, the "objectivity is all there is" scientists
are the ones that are giving the "ok" to fund the studies, and they
are the ones that are holding on to the "status quo" and holding
the evolution of our science back.

But this will not stop the Big Truth from being accepted with time,
it is already being spread through the internet and the minds of many
people as I write this post.

And, in maybe 10-50 years, maybe a little more, everyone will be
conscious and aware of the fact that we are individuated pieces
of consciousness that are players in a virtual reality that is being
hosted on a big computer which consciousness created in itself
in order to evolve itself - through gazzilions of pieces of itself that
are making gazzilion-gazzilion-gazzilions of choices in gazzilions of
different virtual realities inside of itself.

And maybe, it will even become known that this consciousness is
one tiny atom inside the intestines of a huge CONSCIOUSNESSORUS
that is a gazzilion-gazzilion-gazzilion-gazzilion-gazzilion-gazzilion times
larger than this one cell that is the Consciousness that we are a part of.

 

[ibjamming]

You think it normal for people to believe that some guy lives in space and spies on us and then decides were we spend eternity when we die? No wonder you're so warped, you project your beliefs on what you think everyone else thinks.

First of all few if any people that believe in God think that he is just some guy. Few if any believe he lives in space. Few if any believe he spies on us. Finally, most believe that we ourselves decide where we go by our deeds and actions and thoughts, and that God is just tallying up those deeds, actions and thoughts.

What most people believe is that God is a spiritual entity devoid of human form rather then "some guy". If people thought he was just "some guy" there would be stories in the bible of him appearing that way rather then as a burning bush or a dove. What most people believe is that God is Omnipresent, this means he lives everywhere, all at once. The people that believe he lives in space died off centuries ago and used to believe the stars were tiny pinholes of light God placed in the heavens. What most people believe is God is Omnicient, this means he knows everything even before it happened. That he knows you and your entire life and everything you do in it even before you are born. That's why the bible refers to him as the Alpha and the Omega.

It's worse than I thought...the mental disorder... Son of Sam was spoken to by a dog...what's the difference between that and a burning bush or a dove?

God knows EVERYTHING? Before it happens? Then WHAT'S THE POINT of even being born? God already knows what I'm going to do. Whether I'm going to heaven or hell...is it just to go through the motions? Take up space? To fuck with the "believers"?

I fear the ONLY religion you know "well" is Christianity...and you probably don't know that very well either.

For someone who supposedly doesn't believe...you sure defend it a lot.

You description of WHAT most people believe tells me they ARE delusional...as delusional as those who believe other weird shit and are locked up for it. It's OK to believe in all kinds of wacky shit...as long as it's an "accepted" religion. It's hypocritical!

Reality is what we perceive isn't it? This is how we interpret the world, even if our senses are not entirely accurate reality is a human concept based on what we can sense and understand. I'm sure everyone would be different if they were not exposed to the social conditioning they have experienced, conditioning is very pervasive. I think it is a matter of perspective as reality is not a constant, I think each person has a different idea of reality which is true to them.

Yes...well done! We're conditioned from our first year of life to "believe" the bullshit that is religion. We're brainwashed at an EARLY age. It SHOULD be considered child abuse!

 

[southflorida]

the Haze gets me going...the Indica makes me want to stay. Not because of what I believe but because of the chemical reactions within my body.

That's not to say that CONCEPTS and PERCEPTS don't influence each other, but we can't deny a fundamental reality.

Going back to "distinctions", we can only understand something within a context. If the entire world were orange we would not recognize the color orange. We only understand orange when its put in context with other colors.

The universe is dialectical. God requires Satan. Pain requires pleasure. etc etc...

This is all true, but the problem that science is having is not being
able to prove what the fundamental reality IS. They are stuck with
their Big Bang, which is a scientific belief that is based on faith.

By this Big Bang belief they are trying to affirm that they know that
the egg came before the chicken. Obviously no one knows which
came first, because there were no reporters covering the story
with their cameras and microphones

They don't want to admit the truth, that after spending trillions upon
trillions of dollars to find out - they still don't know where everything
came from and where the f*ck it's all going.

And they don't know what anything IS, at the fundamental level.

I'm talking about the majority of the scientists of course, that are
at the center. The scientists that are on the fringes are discovering
theories that are ringing much truer than the old paradigm models.

These new theories are all pointing toward consciousness and evolution
being the father and mother of our fundamental reality.

In other words, consciousness and evolution are the fundamental
reality itself. From here everything else is created, produced, and
manufactured.

Including this tiny, tiny, tiny thing that we call our universe. Tiny
in relation to consciousness of course.

And except for consciousness and evolution, everything else is
virtual realities within consciousness. This means that consciousness
is the SUBSTANCE from which everything is made, and evolution is
the DYNAMIC that is driving consciousness to evolve.

If anyone doesn't see this, all you have to do is to become open
minded and sceptical simultaneously and you will see all this right
in front of your eyes.

Because the Consciousness/Evolution structure is a fractal that is
repeated a gazzilion times in all the virtual realities within the
Consciousness/Evolution structure.

Just like in these videos, in case anyone wants to have a glimpse:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23PkofT0MBQ&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLv9_lgGCR8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlUMRMpLzRo&feature=related

If you are high before you watch this it will be a pleasant trip. And
all the fractals that you will see, our universe is not even anywhere
to be seen in those fractals, that is how tiny it is.

Reality is the Consciousness/Evolution fractal repeated over and
over and over MANY times. This number is large, but finite, because
consciousness/evolution IS REAL. And anything real is finite.

Infinity is a concept, while consciousness/evolution is very real.

 

[deidree barlow]

If what a big word eh...................................

 

[Greensub]

Yes, more often than not, but if we didn't have people pointing at
discrepancies in the structures, we would still be thinking that the
earth is flat and that the earth (instead of the sun) is the center
of the entire universe.

I'll assume this is a misstatement? I wasn't aware that the sun is the center of the universe.

And how about if I told you 30 years ago that you could walk around
almost anywhere in the world and talk on a cordless phone, or that
you could sit at home and post pictures on a screen and post words
on a screen an in milliseconds someone else on the other side of the
world would see them on their screen and then could do the same
thing and you would see them on your screen also???

Would you think I was crazy???

No, there were plenty of people saying the same thing 30 years ago... you mean 1981?

The studies he did in labs, imho were the evidence that he was
using to state his claims, I mean he is not some kid that was playing
around in the sand box and came up with a theory.

And how can one be so sure that the subjective is not more real than
the objective?

For example, when you have your dreams, do they seem objective
to you? Obviously yes. And from where you are now, they seem
subjective...right?

So subjective and objective depend on the viewpoint of the
perceiver. Whatever we are perceiving at this moment we consider
objective, and everything else subjective. And this is the wall that
the majority of the "objectivity is all there is" scientists have hit
many, many years ago, and are still standing nex to this wall shaking
their heads not knowing what to do about it.

This is why they are not studying this part, because they don't know
what to do with this wall. They are out there getting trillions of dollars
in funding to study the "small picture" which is already known.

But the "big picture" from which this small picture is created, or
to be more correctly said is a "sub-set" of...is being studied by the
very few scientists that are out on the edge.

Why? Because the center, the "objectivity is all there is" scientists
are the ones that are giving the "ok" to fund the studies, and they
are the ones that are holding on to the "status quo" and holding
the evolution of our science back.

But this will not stop the Big Truth from being accepted with time,
it is already being spread through the internet and the minds of many
people as I write this post.

Not from what I saw.

And, in maybe 10-50 years, maybe a little more, everyone will be
conscious and aware of the fact that we are individuated pieces
of consciousness that are players in a virtual reality that is being
hosted on a big computer which consciousness created in itself
in order to evolve itself - through gazzilions of pieces of itself that
are making gazzilion-gazzilion-gazzilions of choices in gazzilions of
different virtual realities inside of itself.

And maybe, it will even become known that this consciousness is
one tiny atom inside the intestines of a huge CONSCIOUSNESSORUS
that is a gazzilion-gazzilion-gazzilion-gazzilion-gazzilion-gazzilion times
larger than this one cell that is the Consciousness that we are a part of.

I'm sorry... now I think you're crazy.

are you Thomas Campbell by any chance?

 

[deidree barlow]

And Mankind is inteligent dont make me laugh,anything with a commercial value in the ground will or has been raped by mankind,immortal for how long until we destroy everything that is keeping us alive now thats what i call inteligent pmsl

 

[Greensub]

This is all true, but the problem that science is having is not being
able to prove what the fundamental reality IS. They are stuck with
their Big Bang, which is a scientific belief that is based on faith.

By this Big Bang belief they are trying to affirm that they know that
the egg came before the chicken. Obviously no one knows which
came first, because there were no reporters covering the story
with their cameras and microphones

They don't want to admit the truth, that after spending trillions upon
trillions of dollars to find out - they still don't know where everything
came from and where the f*ck it's all going.

And they don't know what anything IS, at the fundamental level.

I'm talking about the majority of the scientists of course, that are
at the center. The scientists that are on the fringes are discovering
theories that are ringing much truer than the old paradigm models.

These new theories are all pointing toward consciousness and evolution
being the father and mother of our fundamental reality.

In other words, consciousness and evolution are the fundamental
reality itself. From here everything else is created, produced, and
manufactured.

Including this tiny, tiny, tiny thing that we call our universe. Tiny
in relation to consciousness of course.

And except for consciousness and evolution, everything else is
virtual realities within consciousness. This means that consciousness
is the SUBSTANCE from which everything is made, and evolution is
the DYNAMIC that is driving consciousness to evolve.

If anyone doesn't see this, all you have to do is to become open
minded and sceptical simultaneously and you will see all this right
in front of your eyes.

Because the Consciousness/Evolution structure is a fractal that is
repeated a gazzilion times in all the virtual realities within the
Consciousness/Evolution structure.

Just like in these videos, in case anyone wants to have a glimpse:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23PkofT0MBQ&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLv9_lgGCR8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlUMRMpLzRo&feature=related

If you are high before you watch this it will be a pleasant trip. And
all the fractals that you will see, our universe is not even anywhere
to be seen in those fractals, that is how tiny it is.

Reality is the Consciousness/Evolution fractal repeated over and
over and over MANY times. This number is large, but finite, because
consciousness/evolution IS REAL. And anything real is finite.

Infinity is a concept, while consciousness/evolution is very real.

can anyone say pseudoscience... I almost responded to this line by line... but it would take too much time.

 

[southflorida]

I'll assume this is a misstatement? I wasn't aware that the sun is the center of the universe.

I meant the center of our solar system...lol

 

[southflorida]

@Greensub: Maybe I'm crazy, and I'm not a scientist, but check out
these quotes by Einstein (who I believe to have been one of the
best, if not the best scientist of all time).

If we think of the field as being removed, there is no "space" which
remains, since space does not have an independent existence.

Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persisten one. (probably
one of his most famous one, and one of the most ignored, taking
into account how many people believe their reality is real...lol)

Hence it is clear that the space of physicsIS NOT, in the last analysis,
anything given in nature or independent of human thought. It is a
function of our conceptual scheme [mind]. Space as conceived by
Newton proved to be an illusion, although for practical purposes a
very fruitful illusion.

All these are quotes by Einstein, and there are many, many more
by him, but these three are enough...imho.

Plus there are many others, for example here is the last one just for
this post by David Bohm:

To meet the challenge before us our notions of cosmology and of the
general nature of reality must have room in them to permit a consistent
account of consciousness. Vice versa, our notions of consciousness
must have room in them to understand what it means for its content
to be "reality as a whole." The two sets of notions together should then
be such as to allow for an understanding as to how consciousness
and reality are related.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Bohm

...just in case someone doesn't know who this guy was.

Clearly science has been aware of consciousness for a very long time,
it's just that the majority of the LAZY scientists sitting on their
lazy asses and being paid with your taxes keep ignoring this area
because it takes more work and is based on the subjective reality
(which is the only reality there is) as far as we are concerned.

The only "real" reality is consciousness and evolution, everything
else is a simulation and has always been. The evidence is right in
front of our eyes if we put the cultural beliefs/assumptions aside
for a few moments and actually observe while being open minded
and sceptical at the same time.