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Is it possible that reality is not what you think?...yes?/no?...lol

Is it possible that reality is not what you think?...yes?/no?...lol


  • Total voters
    110
  • Poll closed .

southflorida

lives on planet 4:20
Veteran
Hi southflorida,

I agree with what you're saying there, but I didn't mean to talk about a science lab or trying to convince others necessarily. The question was more about the emotional/mental processes that result in you and others believing something like the computer simulation reality (matrix).

Obviously people are allowed to believe what they want on a personal level, but you've also said you want others to understand the view too, which is hard to do because I don't see the reason behind it yet.

The emotional/mental processes are very simple. By observing my
direct experience with life during the last 40 years, I have noticed
that I am a being with consciousness and that I am aware. This is
the subjective side, or what scientist call mystical.

The other force, which is evolution is also obvious. It is everywhere,
everything either evolves or dies. I don't think I need to give examples,
because there are no exceptions.

Consciousness + Evolution is the substance and the dynamic behind
all reality. The digital computer side became obvious after computers
became popular, and we can see how computers can create virtual
reality. The internet only added more to the whole picture.

So 1 + 1 = 2 basically.

Check out that video in the links, and just listen to what that
guy talks about, it will all become quite clear.

He is a scientist, and everything he explains is fully logical.

If you want to go all the way, read the Trilogy, and let me know
what you think of it. It explains everything in details, and is quite
interesting and different from what non-scientists write about
how reality is created.
 

Rukind

Member
It is real to me because i see it that way. But when I take psychedelics, I see it a different way. So it is whatever it is to me depending on how I am viewing it.

But to be honest, its not real. none of this is real. I dont really matter and none of you do. Good things happen. Bad things happen. in the end none of it matters except for the footprint we leave behind for the next generations that also dont really matter.

I can only imagine how complex and extraordinary everything is.

One thing I do love about us, is we are kind of a way for the universe to know itself. That is amazing to me and makes this life worth living. Even if this universe is just a single atom somewhere else, at least this atom is aware it exist :) I also feel like there is something spiritual about life and I hope that leads to somewhere after death, but I dont know if it does or doesn't. I will find out when the time comes or not. I am not to worried about it.

I do believe everything is infinite small and large. the space between every atom could be another universe. our universe could be just another atom that makes up another form of mass somewhere else.

I think we should just be happy we get to ride this ride and im glad we are aware of ourselves and others. Also, as much as we try to be different and separate ourselves from each other, we are one.
 
if you have ever heard of astral voyages then what we see is not reality..

there is a very fine line inbetween sanity and insanity..

i believe in keeping an open mind its allows more in.. this is a heavy ass topic for sure but IMO what we see is not everything out there it would be ignorant to think so..

keep smoking :)
 

Greensub

Active member
the talk of differentiation early on in the thread reminded me of Douglas Adams's Electric Monk Story.

The problem with the valley was this. The Monk currently believed that the valley and everything in the valley and around it, including the Monk itself and the Monk's horse, was a uniform shade of pale pink. This made for a certain difficulty in distinguishing any one thing from any other thing, and therefore made doing anything or going anywhere impossible, or at least difficult and dangerous. Hence the immobility of the Monk and the boredom of the horse, which had had to put up with a lot of silly things in its time but was secretly of the opinion that this was one of the silliest.
Great Book... (Dirk Gently's Holistic Investigation Agency)

http://theelectricmonk.com/ElectricMonk.html

I was looking around the web for info on MBT (My Big TOE... Theory Of Everything) or info on Thomas Campbell (the trilogy south florida has linked to)... he's somewhat of a mystery, has these books out about seven years ago and that's it. No info on what his degree is, or where he got it, or anything else he's published as a scholar. I read a thread on it that was on a science board... they kind of tore it apart a bit... I don't want to link to it though as it's a different message board.

This thread did make me think a bit which is always fun... but I started worrying it was some kind of cult for a little bit, but it seems more like an effort to sell books... although apparently it's available for free on the web.
 

southflorida

lives on planet 4:20
Veteran
This is a complete video presentation by Thomas Campbell if anyone
wants to watch it.

http://www.youtube.com/user/MBTEVENTS

And his website, where there is a forum:

http://www.my-big-toe.com/

And his primary YouTube Channel:

http://www.youtube.com/user/twcjr44#p/p

And finally his free Trilogy on Google Books:

http://books.google.com/books?id=RY...=gbs_selected_pages&cad=3#v=onepage&q&f=false

The information he delivers comes from direct experience and there
are many Big Names including Einstein that were pointing at what
he talks about in his content, but they were viewing it all from the
small picture perspective of our physical reality, which is only a small
sub-set of a larger reality. From the larger reality everything makes
sense and become very, very clear.
 

ibjamming

Active member
Veteran
My reality isn't what I thought or hoped it would be and it hurts to think about the if's, how's, and why's of life. Sometimes I just wish that my mind would simply cease.

that's sad... Don't give up...life IS what YOU make it.

If you believe that there is something, what was there before this
something came into existence? Nothing.

What came first, the chicken or the egg? The answer is neither!

The first thing that ever existed came from NOTHING, this is quite
simple and quite logical.

Just like knowing comes after not-knowing.

Not-knowing and Nothing are the original, the authentic things.

Everything else is secondary. This is very simple stuff.

Beliefs and assumptions lead to confusion. Think for yourself, and
just visualize that there is nothing, and then imagine how from
nothing you create a ball of energy.

This is how stuff was created, and how it will always be created.

Maybe there always was something...you don't know.

We don't know...probably never will...so don't get too worried about it.

Hi southflorida,

I agree with what you're saying there, but I didn't mean to talk about a science lab or trying to convince others necessarily. The question was more about the emotional/mental processes that result in you and others believing something like the computer simulation reality (matrix).

Obviously people are allowed to believe what they want on a personal level, but you've also said you want others to understand the view too, which is hard to do because I don't see the reason behind it yet.

ARE they? Are they REALLY allowed to "believe what they want"? There are MANY who every day are working hard to LIMIT what you believe. Government, religion, even school...they ALL want to "brainwash" you and make you believe what THEY want you to believe.

It is real to me because i see it that way. But when I take psychedelics, I see it a different way. So it is whatever it is to me depending on how I am viewing it.

But to be honest, its not real. none of this is real. I dont really matter and none of you do. Good things happen. Bad things happen. in the end none of it matters except for the footprint we leave behind for the next generations that also dont really matter.

I can only imagine how complex and extraordinary everything is.

One thing I do love about us, is we are kind of a way for the universe to know itself. That is amazing to me and makes this life worth living. Even if this universe is just a single atom somewhere else, at least this atom is aware it exist :) I also feel like there is something spiritual about life and I hope that leads to somewhere after death, but I dont know if it does or doesn't. I will find out when the time comes or not. I am not to worried about it.

I do believe everything is infinite small and large. the space between every atom could be another universe. our universe could be just another atom that makes up another form of mass somewhere else.

I think we should just be happy we get to ride this ride and im glad we are aware of ourselves and others. Also, as much as we try to be different and separate ourselves from each other, we are one.

It IS real...but as you say, in the long run, we don't matter as individuals...unless we do something spectacular.

Actually...you CAN'T imagine how complex and complicated everything is.

No, we're individuals each with our own ideas of things. Not some "collective".

Yup, a theory I've had for years...it goes incredibly small to incredibly large. We "live" in a very small range.

Yes, we SHOULD be happy to be here and live it as we wish.

No...we a ALL individuals each trying to do what WE think is best for US. Game theory comes in because we MUST also get along to a certain extent. Society is a necessary byproduct of a lot of people living together. Society takes away the rights/freedom of the individual.

All good things you are thinking...it's good to see.

if you have ever heard of astral voyages then what we see is not reality..

there is a very fine line inbetween sanity and insanity..

i believe in keeping an open mind its allows more in.. this is a heavy ass topic for sure but IMO what we see is not everything out there it would be ignorant to think so..

keep smoking :)

The line is what society has determined the line to be. what used to be considered a mental disorder can be changed and deemed "normal". Case in point...homosexuality...it was removed from the DSM IV (did I remember it right?) by political pressure even though we all know it's not a "normal" behavior. We also consider it "normal" for someone to believe with all their heart...that there's a guy living in space that spies on us and then decides where we're going to spend eternity when we "die". So go figure... EVERYTHING is political...remembering that makes it a whole lot easier to understand WHY something is done.
 

southflorida

lives on planet 4:20
Veteran
@ibjamming: true we don't know if there has always been something
and most likely will never know.

The only thing we can and should trust is our own direct experiences,
because this is the ONLY thing that is real for each one of us.

Being open minded and sceptical simultaneously is the best approach
for us to use. It is not about believing or not believing, it is about
using our own experience to collect data and then observing the
results that we produce like scientists.

In the end, all that matters are "results" that we personally produce,
and this is why imho, all that matters is our personal direct experiences
with the internal and external worlds (fundamentally which are one and
the same thing, at least from the Big Picture).
 

ibjamming

Active member
Veteran
Sadly, the majority of people have been deeply programmed with
cultural assumptions and beliefs and what they see is not reality
but only what is allowed to pass through these beliefs and
assumptions filters!

Mostly this is fears, and the ego/intellect combination that works
24/7 to create a fantasy world that helps a person to sort of - get
through the day while living with these inner fears!

Fear is in the driver's seat in most people's lives, this is a fact. And
if one doesn't think so, then there is an ego/intellect working over-time
to cover up these fears with a perfectly created fantasy, which at
its root is simply a delusion!


Those links to the infomation and the videos in my recent post
provide content that will make this quite clear, to anyone that has
the courage to face their fears and to eliminate their ego!

Actually...that "fear" is the only thing that is real. Everyone IS out to get you...OK...everyone IS out for themselves and if you get in their way...they WILL hurt you.

This is what "society" or civilization does...it creates the fantasy that we all live in. It's artificial and goes against nature...that's why ALL civilizations have and WILL fall.

If we agree that reality is not what you think in any given moment, that reality is always greater and holds more secrets than the sum of knowledge we have at any given time, then the challenge is to discover what secrets reality still holds, right?

The fundamental question is how to go about probing reality, with what tools. The problem I have with some of your views, southflorida, about reality, the ego, and the matrix in which we live is that there is no evidence for the claims. Now since there is no evidence, there is no ultimate way to prove the idea wrong, but there is equally no way to prove it correct. So...

What in the world could be the motivation for believing such a thing, like that we live in a simulation, if there is no evidence of it? Especially when we have tools and faculties which do give us knowledge--though incomplete--of reality, why choose to believe in the idea for literally no reason? Is an emotional hunger being satisfied? Is the belief driven by a hope or desire that things be that way?

Don't believe the "simulation" thing...actually, if you think about it...RELIGION is a "simulation thing". We're here on earth...PLACED here specifically each and every one of us...for him...for God. We WANT to do one thing...but do another because we're told that's what God wants. It's pretty fucked up...huh? Fight your urges, live a specific way, all because you believe that God wants you to. And we don't even consider this a mental disorder... Nobody can PROVE God...one way or the other. Yet it's believed enough to kill others and themselves???

Good post...

@ibjamming: true we don't know if there has always been something
and most likely will never know.

The only thing we can and should trust is our own direct experiences,
because this is the ONLY thing that is real for each one of us.

Being open minded and sceptical simultaneously is the best approach
for us to use. It is not about believing or not believing, it is about
using our own experience to collect data and then observing the
results that we produce like scientists.

In the end, all that matters are "results" that we personally produce,
and this is why imho, all that matters is our personal direct experiences
with the internal and external worlds (fundamentally which are one and
the same thing, at least from the Big Picture).

Good words...

But the "simulation" thing? Come on...be real! Why? What's the point? I ask that about everything. What's the benefit of such an elaborate simulation? God is REALLY a gamer? He's playing Universe IV? Someone "wrote" everything and he's playing it out? I hope he makes a new high score...I want to be around for a while longer.

I ask that about Religion and God too...what's the point? Why does God NEED us to be a certain way? WTF does he care what some pond scum does. Unless we're closer to God than we think. ape to human? But seriously...I don't believe a word of any of it. God could very well be a universal farmer... I don't have any idea what is REALLY going on universally speaking...and I can live with that. I see and believe what "I" see and hear...because others DO have their own agenda and can't be trusted normally. How I interpret things is all I have. And many times it does NOT agree with others. I'm a guy...nobody is going to take care of me but me. (You women don't know how good you've got it. Welfare...for women. Marriage...for women. Men...for women. You can have it all if you'd just use your head. Men WANT to treat you well. Just get over the equality thing and enjoy life again.) Sorry...tangent...

Reality is ALL in your head...but it's YOUR "simulation"...it's as simple as that.
 

southflorida

lives on planet 4:20
Veteran
Reality is ALL in your head...but it's YOUR "simulation"...it's as simple as that.

This is exactly what is happening, only your "head" is your mind, which
is a part of the larger consciousness. So, you (and me) as individuated
parts of this one consciousness are creating this simulation in order
to evolve our consciousness through making "choices" from the
possibilities that this simulation provides on a moment-to-moment
basis. Isn't this what you have been doing since you were born?

Isn't everything and everyone around you since you remember yourself
as a child...also...have been doing just that...evolving?

Life is a digital virtual reality where we evolve our consciousness,
and this is something that can clearly be observed if we take off
our "cultural belief/assumption glasses" and look at what's actually
happening right in front of us on a moment-to-moment basis.

The name of the game (purpose) is simple: Evolve (grow) or DIE !!!

This is the point, mission, and purpose of consciousness, life, and
every one of us in this digital simulation that we are all producing
as DISTINCT individuated consciousness pieces.

But, while we are distinct, we are not separated, it is all ONE
consciousness, that is creating multiple simulations, in order to evolve
itself to a higher level of organization by lowering its overall/average
entropy through the use of free will and choices in the interactions
between all of these individuated pieces of consciousness.

Consciousness is playing virtual games with itself, in order to evolve
itself into a higher quality entity. And evolution, is what is pushing it
to do it.

I guess you can say that Consciousness is the male force while
Evolution is the female force that is creating many babies that
are these "gazzilions of simulations" where gazzillions individuated
pieces of consciousness are learning and growing and helping
the One Consciousness to become wiser and more evolved!
 

ibjamming

Active member
Veteran
Hey...people right now believe shit a LOT more far fetched than that... Anything IS possible...I can't say you're wrong...I can't.

"Consciousness" is the "being" and we all make it whole with our little contribution...why not. It's as good as an "all wise, all knowing, creator of everything whom came from nothing and was and has been always there"...spying on you and EVERYONE else in the world to decide what will happen to us.

How about just...shit happens?!?
 

southflorida

lives on planet 4:20
Veteran
Shit does happen, but you and me are making choices about what we do or not do with the shit that happens. Sometimes we choose to do
something, sometimes we choose not do anything (which is still,
obviously a choice) and from these choices we have the possibility
to learn and make better choices in the future.

Isn't this how we live our lives? And if we choose not to learn to make
better choices, life keeps hitting us on the head with the same shit
over and over again until we learn...or die (which ever comes first).

So, at the fundamental level, life is about making choices!

And this is why every human being is important to the whole, because
every time we make better choices and advance, we help consciousness,
which is what we all are anyway, to evolve.

It is very simple really. The Big Picture is consciousness evolving
through making choices, and improving its ability to make choices
from the feedback it gets after the choice is made.

For example...put hand in fire, get burned, next time don't put
hand in fire, put your neighbor's hand in fire...and laugh at him :laughing:
 

ibjamming

Active member
Veteran
Shit does happen, but you and me are making choices about what we do or not do with the shit that happens. Sometimes we choose to do
something, sometimes we choose not do anything (which is still,
obviously a choice) and from these choices we have the possibility
to learn and make better choices in the future.

Isn't this how we live our lives? And if we choose not to learn to make
better choices, life keeps hitting us on the head with the same shit
over and over again until we learn...or die
(which ever comes first).

So, at the fundamental level, life is about making choices!

And this is why every human being is important to the whole, because
every time we make better choices and advance, we help consciousness,
which is what we all are anyway, to evolve.

It is very simple really. The Big Picture is consciousness evolving
through making choices, and improving its ability to make choices
from the feedback it gets after the choice is made.

For example...put hand in fire, get burned, next time don't put
hand in fire, put your neighbor's hand in fire...and laugh at him
:laughing:

SOME of us do...look around...you know who the people are who LEARN from their mistakes...and then you have the other group...the inner cities usually, where people don't seem to be able to learn. They keep doing/living the same way...and we keep bailing them out. So who is the one not learning?

So how are those people living in the projects helping to "advance" the "Conscience"? If anything they're keeping it down...agreed? We've got half the planet living off the good graces of the other half. How do you explain that conundrum?

Oh...OK...I get it...they push off the "WORK" (burning hand) onto me...and I keep doing it and giving my rewards to them...and they laugh at me for doing it. Yes, I've figured that out already...and I'm sick and tired of it actually.

I just don't believe it...sorry... Just like I don't believe the Christians, the Muslims, Jews, Scientologists, or anyone trying to tell me that THEY know "the real deal". From what I can tell...nobody knows the real deal...in a LOT of things. I'll bring up gravity...make me some. Control it. Hell, tell me WHAT it is! Is it a wave (some say so), a particle (Graviton), a force? Nobody knows yet we've lived with it forever. Science...contrary to what IT believes...is still in the dark ages...relatively ;) speaking.

Consciousness is "alive" and evolving...sure why not.
 

southflorida

lives on planet 4:20
Veteran
SOME of us do...look around...you know who the people are who LEARN from their mistakes...and then you have the other group...the inner cities usually, where people don't seem to be able to learn. They keep doing/living the same way...and we keep bailing them out. So who is the one not learning?

So how are those people living in the projects helping to "advance" the "Conscience"? If anything they're keeping it down...agreed? We've got half the planet living off the good graces of the other half. How do you explain that conundrum?

Oh...OK...I get it...they push off the "WORK" (burning hand) onto me...and I keep doing it and giving my rewards to them...and they laugh at me for doing it. Yes, I've figured that out already...and I'm sick and tired of it actually.

I just don't believe it...sorry... Just like I don't believe the Christians, the Muslims, Jews, Scientologists, or anyone trying to tell me that THEY know "the real deal". From what I can tell...nobody knows the real deal...in a LOT of things. I'll bring up gravity...make me some. Control it. Hell, tell me WHAT it is! Is it a wave (some say so), a particle (Graviton), a force? Nobody knows yet we've lived with it forever. Science...contrary to what IT believes...is still in the dark ages...relatively ;) speaking.

Consciousness is "alive" and evolving...sure why not.

I completely understand where you are coming from. In fact, it seems
the majority are happy to live with the status quo and don't really
want to evolve.

This is why consciousness is a subjective thing. It is completely
personal, it is NOT a group thing. It is 100% up to each one of us
to grow our own consciousness through the choices we make,
and if we want we can help others, in whatever way we want
and in whatever way we can.

But, we can't help other people to grow their consciousness, because
it is a matter of free will and of using our intent, and this is not
something we have access to when it comes to other people.

We only have access to our own free will and intent, and this is why
only we can pull ourselves up, and to evolve on a regular basis.

As long as you are growing and moving forward, making the right
decisions for the right reasons that is all that really matters, because
that is really ALL that you can do.

So, in the end it all comes down to choice, what are you going to
choose to do or not to do, and why? What is your intent, your
motivation behind the choices that you make?

Is it fear, ego, or is it love, humility, compassion?

Obviously the choices will be different when you make them from the
state of you being afraid and ego-focused and you being loving,
humble, and filled with compassion.

This basically points at the fact that the choices we make are based
on our being, who we are at the core, and if we want to make better
choices we have to work on our "being."

Which brings us back to consciousness and evolution.

Through evolving our consciousness we evolve our being, who we are
in the moment-to-moment existence in which shit is happening :)
 

southflorida

lives on planet 4:20
Veteran
There are a million quotes by people from the scientists to philosophers
that confirm that consciousness is what constitutes our reality, but
I wanted to post just one, because this guy is a serious scientist.

It will remain remarkable, in whatever way our future concepts
may develop, that the very study of the external world led to the
scientific conclusion that the content of consciousness is the
ultimate universal reality.

Eugene P. Wigner - A Nobel Prize winner and one of the leading
physicists of the twentieth century

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_Wigner

This is not some guru that has been sitting in a mountain cave
meditating for thirty years. This guy is a serious scientists, and
if he openly says something like this, he has to have some serious
conviction that this is very, very likely true.

Scientists of this level don't say things like this unless they have
evidence to back up their claims. The fact that the majority of
scientists are blind to these facts about reality being created by
consciousness, doesn't mean that it isn't so, it possibly just means
they are simply stuck in the old paradigms.

Like the people that at one time believed that the earth is flat :)
 

Rukind

Member
It IS real...but as you say, in the long run, we don't matter as individuals...unless we do something spectacular.

Actually...you CAN'T imagine how complex and complicated everything is.

No, we're individuals each with our own ideas of things. Not some "collective".

Yup, a theory I've had for years...it goes incredibly small to incredibly large. We "live" in a very small range.

Yes, we SHOULD be happy to be here and live it as we wish.

No...we a ALL individuals each trying to do what WE think is best for US. Game theory comes in because we MUST also get along to a certain extent. Society is a necessary byproduct of a lot of people living together. Society takes away the rights/freedom of the individual.

All good things you are thinking...it's good to see.

I CAN only imagine. I can imagine all I want. Doesn't mean I know everything like you.

None of us KNOW any of this. if you say you know, you are mistaken. I will not believe anyone that says they got it all figured out. The more I learned about this life through experience, the more I realized I have no idea.

I believe that we are parts of one conscious being aware of itself. to live a life the way we do is to be aware of it.

I love to think about these things, I used to have so many different ideas. Now I just dont worry. Life is too short and we will never know.

I must say, our perception of reality is pretty cool. I love our little world we created here.

I just hope we can all make it a better place one day. We have to get over being selfish. One day, humanity will meet its end. If we dont change our ways, it will be sooner than later.

We are starting to discover many wonderful things in science and quantum physics. why are we all caught up in political agenda's when we have other things to truly worry about to keep humanity moving forward. This is why I think it is important to stop separating ourselves from each other as much as we do.

I do believe what south florida said here: "
This is why consciousness is a subjective thing. It is completely
personal, it is NOT a group thing. It is 100% up to each one of us
to grow our own consciousness through the choices we make,
and if we want we can help others, in whatever way we want
and in whatever way we can."

I believe we are all one conscious, but I also think we are experiencing itself subjectively.

which kind of reminds me of a bill hicks quote: Today, a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration — that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. There is no such thing as death; life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves... Here's Tom with the weather

haha i like that. makes sense to me
 

cashmunny

Member
You've arrived at a rather Buddhist perspective. Zen master Shunryu Suzuki would call what you refer to as "Being" as big mind and what you call "your self" as little mind. Just as waves are not water, self is not being.Or put another way, waves are a phenomenon of water that depend on water for their existence. But water exists with or without waves. And so it is with self and being.

A meditation practice can make the distinction clearer for yourself.
 

HempKat

Just A Simple Old Dirt Farmer
Veteran
I completely understand where you are coming from. In fact, it seems
the majority are happy to live with the status quo and don't really
want to evolve.

That's a rather arrogant assumption on your part. Someone doesn't agree with your point of view and so you assume they're not wanting to evolve. Maybe it's you who are wrong and not they, maybe it's you still needing to evolve to catch up to them?
 

HempKat

Just A Simple Old Dirt Farmer
Veteran
There are a million quotes by people from the scientists to philosophers
that confirm that consciousness is what constitutes our reality, but
I wanted to post just one, because this guy is a serious scientist.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_Wigner

This is not some guru that has been sitting in a mountain cave
meditating for thirty years. This guy is a serious scientists, and
if he openly says something like this, he has to have some serious
conviction that this is very, very likely true.

Scientists of this level don't say things like this unless they have
evidence to back up their claims. The fact that the majority of
scientists are blind to these facts about reality being created by
consciousness, doesn't mean that it isn't so, it possibly just means
they are simply stuck in the old paradigms.

Like the people that at one time believed that the earth is flat :)

More often then not when you got a bunch of people on one side of a fence all in agreement and just one or two on the otherside of the fence who disagree with everyone else, it turns out the one or two disagreeing are the ones that are wrong.

Your reasoning for believing the guy you quote is flawed. He's a scientist and so therefore to state his belief publically he must have evidence? He can't have evidence because the point he's making is that reality is subjective. If he had evidence he would present it. That's what scientists do, they study things, record their observations, draw conclusions and then share their results and conclusions. They don't go around just making unsupported claims and expect everyone to trust that because they're scientists that the must have evidence.
 

HempKat

Just A Simple Old Dirt Farmer
Veteran
We also consider it "normal" for someone to believe with all their heart...that there's a guy living in space that spies on us and then decides where we're going to spend eternity when we "die". So go figure... EVERYTHING is political...remembering that makes it a whole lot easier to understand WHY something is done.

You think it normal for people to believe that some guy lives in space and spies on us and then decides were we spend eternity when we die? No wonder you're so warped, you project your beliefs on what you think everyone else thinks.

First of all few if any people that believe in God think that he is just some guy. Few if any believe he lives in space. Few if any believe he spies on us. Finally, most believe that we ourselves decide where we go by our deeds and actions and thoughts, and that God is just tallying up those deeds, actions and thoughts.

What most people believe is that God is a spiritual entity devoid of human form rather then "some guy". If people thought he was just "some guy" there would be stories in the bible of him appearing that way rather then as a burning bush or a dove. What most people believe is that God is Omnipresent, this means he lives everywhere, all at once. The people that believe he lives in space died off centuries ago and used to believe the stars were tiny pinholes of light God placed in the heavens. What most people believe is God is Omnicient, this means he knows everything even before it happened. That he knows you and your entire life and everything you do in it even before you are born. That's why the bible refers to him as the Alpha and the Omega.
 

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