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ImaginaryFriend's INTERPRETATION of Delta9nxs' PASSIVE PLANT KILLERS
- Thread starter ImaginaryFriend
- Start date
How you been oo? Nice to see your voice!
I'm pulling a rated 220cfm through the tubes continuously, with a relatively clean ducting set up with this build out... one 90 degree turn, no slack, shortest runs I could design... etc.
I also have some fans blowing diagonally across the tube's surface, so that might help keep the actual glass temps in check.
Whatever the cause, the flowers touching the glass are just fine.
What's more interesting to me is that I have flowers within five to six inches of my bulbs without any display of metabolic shut down. That's fine and good, but it shows me that the area of my maximum light is ridiculously small... The flowers closest are the most developed, implying that the rest of the garden is starved. So if touching the tube is still not too close, so I should probably increase my light output and move my optimum canopy back... for a larger canopy in the effective light range.
Holding me back from ramping up to 2k (or 2.2 if I go digital):
1. I don't know if my ducting/venting will keep up with the added light,
2. and I'm not sure I can justify the expense as I've found a nice balance between producing what I need, the cost it takes me to produce for my needs, and the amount of work--or lack of work--the garden demands of me.
That's not to say that I'm not making adjustments, and improving details... just that it sure ain't broke right now... so why fix it.
And the chaos of the outside world seems to make up for the boredom of running a PPK based garden.
I guess, I could throw down on a couple of 1k digis, some bomber bulbs, and see how she runs. Might be a few weeks/months/years before I get around to doing it... but I can tell by the way I'm forming sentences that it's likely going to happen...
Shit.
I'm pulling a rated 220cfm through the tubes continuously, with a relatively clean ducting set up with this build out... one 90 degree turn, no slack, shortest runs I could design... etc.
I also have some fans blowing diagonally across the tube's surface, so that might help keep the actual glass temps in check.
Whatever the cause, the flowers touching the glass are just fine.
What's more interesting to me is that I have flowers within five to six inches of my bulbs without any display of metabolic shut down. That's fine and good, but it shows me that the area of my maximum light is ridiculously small... The flowers closest are the most developed, implying that the rest of the garden is starved. So if touching the tube is still not too close, so I should probably increase my light output and move my optimum canopy back... for a larger canopy in the effective light range.
Holding me back from ramping up to 2k (or 2.2 if I go digital):
1. I don't know if my ducting/venting will keep up with the added light,
2. and I'm not sure I can justify the expense as I've found a nice balance between producing what I need, the cost it takes me to produce for my needs, and the amount of work--or lack of work--the garden demands of me.
That's not to say that I'm not making adjustments, and improving details... just that it sure ain't broke right now... so why fix it.
And the chaos of the outside world seems to make up for the boredom of running a PPK based garden.
I guess, I could throw down on a couple of 1k digis, some bomber bulbs, and see how she runs. Might be a few weeks/months/years before I get around to doing it... but I can tell by the way I'm forming sentences that it's likely going to happen...
Shit.
Inherent efficiency (kW usage) of system
Inherent efficiency (kW usage) of system
So.
For giggles, I read the first page of this thread.
I claimed that I was going to draft comments on the inherent efficiency (kW usage) of the PPK.
When you consider it's been nine months without a word on the subject, the term 'overdue' seems a bit... inadequate.
So, here it is:
Everyone talks about a such-and-such-K garden. And often, they mean kW in flower. Rarely do we hear discussions related to total kW/g from clone on... and that's reasonable. Too many calculations, too much time spent, no easy way to do the math. There have been, of course, numerous suggestions from thoughtful people on how to more accurately reflect the productive efficiency of gardens. (Conceptually, I like the true measure of g/kW/year approach, as it evens out swings, and starts to demonstrate what a garden is capable of. On a long enough timeline, it provides the opportunity to set a benchmark value to your genetics' productivity, if such things matter to you. You have a baseline value attached to your go-to-genetic, and for some reason, you find yourself growing something different, you can give a real value to it... i.e. it takes 2x the gardens energy to generate a comparable yield, so unless that yield is 2x as effective in it's purpose, it may not be a good choice... either way, it has 2x the garden value, and that should be reflected in the way that it is handled.)
That said, claims of efficiency rarely include consideration of veg time/wattage, or accessories, especially cooling.
So... let's imagine a well build closed garden with 10K. Someone reading this will know how many BTUs of cooling we need to address that issue... but I'm gonna roll with 60% of HID wattage needed to be dedicated to accessories and cooling. So suddenly we're at 16k. Now, in a RDWC we're definitely pumping another K into coolers and air pumps... maybe more with monster pumps, etc.
So, if my numbers aren't fucked, we're approaching 1.7K per K. So our 'well-run' yields of 1g/w suddenly plummet. 'Cause every 1k of HID is really pulling around 1.7k.
If you've wasted your time following this thread, you already know that I've consistently demonstrated the PPK will sustain certain strains at 100 plus temps. Should this be interpreted as optimum? Hardly. And, to be fair, the largest source of heat in any given garden is going to be the burning bulbs (I know, I know, HPS vs CMH vs LED...) and the heat originating from the variety of powered accessories is a considerably smaller concern.
So... I guess I'm full of shit. Because BTUs are BTUs, and they, in a well run garden, need to be managed.
I guess I'm left standing on the idea that it is a robust system, with designed redundancies, that can maintain itself through a pump failure, through a variety of extreem environmental conditions.
But I've already said that.
Lets hear it for redundancy, and repetitiveness, and saying things over and over.
EDIT UPON REFLECTION: It occurs to me that not every garden must be optimized for efficiency to provide for everyone's needs. Smaller scale, personal grows might not need all the environmental management as people with productive interests... and if we are willing to give a nod to this crew, PPKs robustness in a wide range of temperature ranges suggest that if you are willing to sacrifice yield half (or more) of the year, it may be considered a much more efficient system that others that require cooling of nutes, etc. insofar as it is functional without the added investment in mechanics and energy.
(That's a sweet color I used to let y'all know it was an edit, heh?)
Inherent efficiency (kW usage) of system
So.
For giggles, I read the first page of this thread.
I claimed that I was going to draft comments on the inherent efficiency (kW usage) of the PPK.
When you consider it's been nine months without a word on the subject, the term 'overdue' seems a bit... inadequate.
So, here it is:
Everyone talks about a such-and-such-K garden. And often, they mean kW in flower. Rarely do we hear discussions related to total kW/g from clone on... and that's reasonable. Too many calculations, too much time spent, no easy way to do the math. There have been, of course, numerous suggestions from thoughtful people on how to more accurately reflect the productive efficiency of gardens. (Conceptually, I like the true measure of g/kW/year approach, as it evens out swings, and starts to demonstrate what a garden is capable of. On a long enough timeline, it provides the opportunity to set a benchmark value to your genetics' productivity, if such things matter to you. You have a baseline value attached to your go-to-genetic, and for some reason, you find yourself growing something different, you can give a real value to it... i.e. it takes 2x the gardens energy to generate a comparable yield, so unless that yield is 2x as effective in it's purpose, it may not be a good choice... either way, it has 2x the garden value, and that should be reflected in the way that it is handled.)
That said, claims of efficiency rarely include consideration of veg time/wattage, or accessories, especially cooling.
So... let's imagine a well build closed garden with 10K. Someone reading this will know how many BTUs of cooling we need to address that issue... but I'm gonna roll with 60% of HID wattage needed to be dedicated to accessories and cooling. So suddenly we're at 16k. Now, in a RDWC we're definitely pumping another K into coolers and air pumps... maybe more with monster pumps, etc.
So, if my numbers aren't fucked, we're approaching 1.7K per K. So our 'well-run' yields of 1g/w suddenly plummet. 'Cause every 1k of HID is really pulling around 1.7k.
If you've wasted your time following this thread, you already know that I've consistently demonstrated the PPK will sustain certain strains at 100 plus temps. Should this be interpreted as optimum? Hardly. And, to be fair, the largest source of heat in any given garden is going to be the burning bulbs (I know, I know, HPS vs CMH vs LED...) and the heat originating from the variety of powered accessories is a considerably smaller concern.
So... I guess I'm full of shit. Because BTUs are BTUs, and they, in a well run garden, need to be managed.
I guess I'm left standing on the idea that it is a robust system, with designed redundancies, that can maintain itself through a pump failure, through a variety of extreem environmental conditions.
But I've already said that.
Lets hear it for redundancy, and repetitiveness, and saying things over and over.
EDIT UPON REFLECTION: It occurs to me that not every garden must be optimized for efficiency to provide for everyone's needs. Smaller scale, personal grows might not need all the environmental management as people with productive interests... and if we are willing to give a nod to this crew, PPKs robustness in a wide range of temperature ranges suggest that if you are willing to sacrifice yield half (or more) of the year, it may be considered a much more efficient system that others that require cooling of nutes, etc. insofar as it is functional without the added investment in mechanics and energy.
(That's a sweet color I used to let y'all know it was an edit, heh?)
Killer fookin thread!
This was a really informative read IF......keep up the good work mang.
Mad Props to you bro.
This was a really informative read IF......keep up the good work mang.
Mad Props to you bro.
oldone
Member
Yeah, it ground into my eyeballs like shards of glass...
Oh and BTW it's "eh?" not "heh?". lol
OO
This color grind's your eyeball into shards of glass, eh?
(Did I do good this time?)
FLDanks, thanks man. Glad you had a chance to fill us in over at the LUI thread... Loved all your pics!
(Did I do good this time?)
FLDanks, thanks man. Glad you had a chance to fill us in over at the LUI thread... Loved all your pics!
MedScientist
Hydronaut Ganjaneer
ppk-ish
ppk-ish
Its set up and running for a week now (still veggin') without any problems. No signs of under/over watering. Res has been pretty steady at 5.7 to 6.1 ph @ 1.3ish EC.
ppk-ish
Its set up and running for a week now (still veggin') without any problems. No signs of under/over watering. Res has been pretty steady at 5.7 to 6.1 ph @ 1.3ish EC.
Last edited:
Nice color on those girls. Things look nice.
Alright.
I am easily distracted.
And easily shamed into action.
So here it is:
My perpetual is no longer perpetual.
That is a story longer than I am going to write here--let it be sufficient to say that it stopped for all the right reasons:
Jars are full.
Butter is made.
Brownies in the freezer.
Etc.
I was going all the way back to the ground, and making new plans.
But I couldn't chop this one lady in my version of not-12-12.
So I'm going to ScrOG her out. 2x4 foot print. 1200W HPS. Horizontal. 1 plant PPK.
I've started LSTing her to get her to reach out laterally.
Her recovery--more on that later, perhaps--has been completed, and her new leaf set is crinkly. To me, that means that she's back to growing faster than she can reasonably handle.
I need to have a screen built, installed and have her trained, plus 600W, by the end of this month.
So.
I make the claim before the community.
That I may be shamed into the build out.
I am easily distracted.
And easily shamed into action.
So here it is:
My perpetual is no longer perpetual.
That is a story longer than I am going to write here--let it be sufficient to say that it stopped for all the right reasons:
Jars are full.
Butter is made.
Brownies in the freezer.
Etc.
I was going all the way back to the ground, and making new plans.
But I couldn't chop this one lady in my version of not-12-12.
So I'm going to ScrOG her out. 2x4 foot print. 1200W HPS. Horizontal. 1 plant PPK.
I've started LSTing her to get her to reach out laterally.
Her recovery--more on that later, perhaps--has been completed, and her new leaf set is crinkly. To me, that means that she's back to growing faster than she can reasonably handle.
I need to have a screen built, installed and have her trained, plus 600W, by the end of this month.
So.
I make the claim before the community.
That I may be shamed into the build out.
I already shamed myself into building a screen. One hour, forty minutes from really thinking I should get on this to done. Not so hard, right?
No pics tonight.
But when she looks a bit less disheveled, I'll bring her out for the world to see...
No pics tonight.
But when she looks a bit less disheveled, I'll bring her out for the world to see...
So... there's the pic.
She's alright.
I have given myself until the end of the week to:
1. Build/hack active intake.
2. Build/hack active vent. Might run an 8" vortex forcing into a can, if I can scrounge up some prefilter.
3. Hang another .6K
4. Attach all the little fans around the house to various members of the space and really get the air all mixed up.
There's not too much new or tech planned for this girl. I'm going to try and shut down her metabolism by overlighting her. Her sisters were able to lean right up against a 6" cool tube in line with the center of an overdriven .6K, and just seem happy as shit. I'm gonna run 1200w over 2x4 to see if that will bleach her out.
I am over pulsing her right now... have so much flow that it's filling the upper bucket with about 1/2 inch of standing feed before the pump kicks off and she drains through.
I just noticed that she's being fed way harder than I've been... at EC 2.4... pH 5.5... and she's not showing me that anything is too wrong with that. But I'm creeping her back down to 1.whatever, just because that seems like the right thing to do.
What I really need help on is a new way to access this site...
I've been running Privoxy and Tor for a while and it's been smooth... but then Firefox changed, and everythings been fucked up since and my login has been dropped four times already trying to type this post out...
oo?
oldone
Member
Hi IF,
I've been following along as usual and she looks sweet! Why are you trying to bleach her?
Onward to more important things...
Just how paranoid are you WRT the internet and icmag? If you got caught, what sentence could you be facing?
I have several ideas for you but need to know the answers to the above first.
OO
I'm trying to find the point where she'll metabolically shut down from too much light... Once established in the PPK, she'll throw shade leaves that are super crinkled up and unwind to 10" fingers over a few days... while she continues to grow upwards with reasonable internode spacing at inches a day. She can stretch a foot a week in 12-12 in the right environmental conditions.
And I don't really feel like I'm maxing out her potential productivity at all. I believe with an established root zone, I can keep up with her food with the radical over-pulsing and general PPK awesomeness. I've already got some turbulent air movement to minimize/eliminate dead air space. I'm going to change out the room's air 4x-8x minute with active air intakes and venting.
So all of her building blocks should be there. Now I want to see if she can metabolize them with 150w/sqft.
Okay. Now that I write that, I want to be super paranoid.
I know this isn't the security forum, but I'd be interested in hearing the spectrum... and the skill/knowledge required to implement them.
One option I've considered is a cheap notebook, public access wi-fi, and some way to over-write the drive routinely to keep my history isolated... but I do like to check out the site from my house. I guess I could become more disciplined...
I don't know too much about these things.
PM me if you don't want to say too much publicly.
Otherwise, I'd be happy to have whatever you have to say to land here in this thread... or link to the security forums... or a thread I didn't know how to search for (let's be honest, it's probably a sticky and I just didn't look...)
And I don't really feel like I'm maxing out her potential productivity at all. I believe with an established root zone, I can keep up with her food with the radical over-pulsing and general PPK awesomeness. I've already got some turbulent air movement to minimize/eliminate dead air space. I'm going to change out the room's air 4x-8x minute with active air intakes and venting.
So all of her building blocks should be there. Now I want to see if she can metabolize them with 150w/sqft.
Trying to be low key and not attract attention... or make anyone else's job really easy. Proxies to make it less traceable, Tor to break up content made me feel light I wasn't painting a bulls-eye on myself...
Okay. Now that I write that, I want to be super paranoid.
I know this isn't the security forum, but I'd be interested in hearing the spectrum... and the skill/knowledge required to implement them.
One option I've considered is a cheap notebook, public access wi-fi, and some way to over-write the drive routinely to keep my history isolated... but I do like to check out the site from my house. I guess I could become more disciplined...
I don't know too much about these things.
PM me if you don't want to say too much publicly.
Otherwise, I'd be happy to have whatever you have to say to land here in this thread... or link to the security forums... or a thread I didn't know how to search for (let's be honest, it's probably a sticky and I just didn't look...)
oldone
Member
Nah...lets keep it here.
TOR is great but slow. The problem I have with proxies is how can you trust them? Its not beyond the realm of possibility the LEO has their own proxies setup and watching all of the traffic over them.
The easiest thing to do is access icmag using just https not http. This ensures all of your traffic is encrypted. The traffic can still be shown as coming/going to icmag but cant be easily read. Oh and dont use internet explorer, firefox is much safer.
What you're looking for is called plausible deniability.
Do you have a wireless router and neighbors within 100ft or so?
What you do is configure the wireless to use WPA (not WPA2) encryption which is relatively easy to break. So now you can say, "...someone was stealing my bandwith!, gasp...".
Next get a 8 or 16 GB USB stick and install a bootable operating system on it (Ubuntu is fantastic) and use this for your your nefarious activities. When you're not using it, just hide it. It'll be a lot easier to hide than a laptop and its cheaper too.
No evidence will found on your main computer.
Paranoid enough?
OO
TOR is great but slow. The problem I have with proxies is how can you trust them? Its not beyond the realm of possibility the LEO has their own proxies setup and watching all of the traffic over them.
The easiest thing to do is access icmag using just https not http. This ensures all of your traffic is encrypted. The traffic can still be shown as coming/going to icmag but cant be easily read. Oh and dont use internet explorer, firefox is much safer.
What you're looking for is called plausible deniability.
Do you have a wireless router and neighbors within 100ft or so?
What you do is configure the wireless to use WPA (not WPA2) encryption which is relatively easy to break. So now you can say, "...someone was stealing my bandwith!, gasp...".
Next get a 8 or 16 GB USB stick and install a bootable operating system on it (Ubuntu is fantastic) and use this for your your nefarious activities. When you're not using it, just hide it. It'll be a lot easier to hide than a laptop and its cheaper too.
No evidence will found on your main computer.Paranoid enough?
OO
Closer to paranoid-enough. But is there ever a paranoid-enough? Can you put a value on walking outside every day, even if it's cloudy?
I had acceptable delays using Privoxy and Tor, but on the current version of Firefox (auto-updated, that bastard) tor-button was disabled, Privoxy refused all connections... etc.
So now I'm running the Vidalia bundle, dumped Privoxy as I couldn't get it to interface, and am running their proxy Polipio... and it is a massive pain in my ass. I expect that this post will not go up... so I'll copy it, re-sign-in... and then post it all quickly and shit.
I'll pick up a stick and run Ubuntu off my home system.
I'm still playing with the idea of the 'burner-laptop', as the idea of plausible deniability, while important, means I'm denying something. And that means I'm having a conversation with someone that I don't want to talk to. And I don't want to talk to someone that I don't want to talk to. So lets take it to the next level...
When I start running a bootable OS, how anxious do I need to be with stuff hidden in my system. I don't, for example, deliberately save any photos or posts to my computer's hard drive, but I imagine there are things cached somewhere.
Clearing history and such doesn't actually wipe the historical content, it just takes it out of my history, right? The content is in the 'recycle bin' or some shit, but readily accessible to anyone with any training...
Does Firefox's 'private browsing' function add any degree of anonymity to the process?
How much should I be concerned with hidden files on my system (like when I copy this post and then paste it after I log in again), and what should I do to deal with it?
Yup, I got kicked again... Pain in my Ass.
I had acceptable delays using Privoxy and Tor, but on the current version of Firefox (auto-updated, that bastard) tor-button was disabled, Privoxy refused all connections... etc.
So now I'm running the Vidalia bundle, dumped Privoxy as I couldn't get it to interface, and am running their proxy Polipio... and it is a massive pain in my ass. I expect that this post will not go up... so I'll copy it, re-sign-in... and then post it all quickly and shit.
I'll pick up a stick and run Ubuntu off my home system.
I'm still playing with the idea of the 'burner-laptop', as the idea of plausible deniability, while important, means I'm denying something. And that means I'm having a conversation with someone that I don't want to talk to. And I don't want to talk to someone that I don't want to talk to. So lets take it to the next level...
When I start running a bootable OS, how anxious do I need to be with stuff hidden in my system. I don't, for example, deliberately save any photos or posts to my computer's hard drive, but I imagine there are things cached somewhere.
Clearing history and such doesn't actually wipe the historical content, it just takes it out of my history, right? The content is in the 'recycle bin' or some shit, but readily accessible to anyone with any training...
Does Firefox's 'private browsing' function add any degree of anonymity to the process?
How much should I be concerned with hidden files on my system (like when I copy this post and then paste it after I log in again), and what should I do to deal with it?
Yup, I got kicked again... Pain in my Ass.
oldone
Member
slightly rearranged for clarity...
-Re-install your OS.
-get a laptop
-use the usb stick on it
-go to a public hotspot for all hidden activities (or just leech from a neighbor)
But beware: There is no foolproof way of protecting your anonymity, period.
Its nice to chat with my Imaginary Friend again,
OO
Editing to say: why not just reinstall the older version of firefox?
You should be quite concerned. Even emptying your trash doesnt actually delete the files. The pointer to the file gets deleted so that disk space can be re-used. The actual file is still there and can be read by various means. To be safe you should dump the OS, format the disk and re-install it.
Not really... From this page:
I think ultra paranoid would be;
-Re-install your OS.
-get a laptop
-use the usb stick on it
-go to a public hotspot for all hidden activities (or just leech from a neighbor)
But beware: There is no foolproof way of protecting your anonymity, period.
Its nice to chat with my Imaginary Friend again,
OO
Editing to say: why not just reinstall the older version of firefox?
For whatever reason Privoxy was refusing all connections, and I didn't find a work around. With or without Tor loaded...
So I just kept messing around until it looked like I was being hosted via Europe, and came back to IC to see what was going on...
... hum... seems like there should be some pretty clever ways to do it... To bad I'm not pretty or clever.
On interesting thing is that from this browser, Google thinks I'm a bot. So I wonder if I'm actually attracting more attention than avoiding it right now...
That never happened with the Tor/Privoxy combo.
1. Hack active intake, CHECK:
Stanly-Blower-Cardboard-Flange Hack. Old School meets Gheto syle. Times Two.
2. Prefilter Hack, Check:
Spun Polly wrapping some chicken wire...
Two six inch Stanley blowers on active intake seem to match an 8" vortex pulling out of the space and pushing into the can... without the vortex and one Stanley, there was mad positive pressure in the space, with one plus the Vortex there was negative pressure, with two Stanley's the walls are not ballooning or sucking in their collective guts... just kinda rustling.
Accidental... not calculated... but appears to be in some kind of equilibrium. What are the odds?
Um.
Done.
1.2K.
Fans in the space.
This, I'm starting to think, was not such a clever idea.
If it doesn't work, it was a bad idea.
If it does work... there's no way I can keep her in that space.
Oh well, here's to fun times.
Okay.
Shit's gone Frankenstein.
Of course, there are some temp and wind burns and shit...
But I mean that things that shouldn't be, are.
Fan leaves that were crinkly-maybe-thoughts four hours ago are splayed out like played out hookers. Haggard. Confused. And probably too big for their own good.
Like I said above, I'm starting to think this wasn't such a good idea.
If it doesn't work, it was a bad idea.
If it does work... I'm gonna be hearing 'Feed me, Seymour.' all the fucking time.
Shit's gone Frankenstein.
Of course, there are some temp and wind burns and shit...
But I mean that things that shouldn't be, are.
Fan leaves that were crinkly-maybe-thoughts four hours ago are splayed out like played out hookers. Haggard. Confused. And probably too big for their own good.
Like I said above, I'm starting to think this wasn't such a good idea.
If it doesn't work, it was a bad idea.
If it does work... I'm gonna be hearing 'Feed me, Seymour.' all the fucking time.
