ImaginaryFriend's INTERPRETATION of Delta9nxs' PASSIVE PLANT KILLERS

[ImaginaryFriend]

Flip'd'er.

6 gallons a day.

Unreasonable.

Impossible.

But true anyway.

Too much, too fast.

 

[Corpsey]

haha, what a beast you have on your hands.

enjoying the dance with the plant!

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

Hey corpsey,

Did you find asymmetrical flower development in your run?

Some finished flowers would look like they came from two different plants, depending if you looked at the light deprived or the excessive light side...

I was finding my canopy so thick--even with stripping--that I wasn't getting any kind of meaningful light rebounding around my space... especially when they started hitting the roof... So I only had the single column of illumination running right down the center...

This, along with two million other reasons, is why I'm playing with a horizontal ScrOG with this girl...

 

[Corpsey]

yeah it does happen on most of the plants. I have one plant that has one branch that is foxtailing while the others are not. but i have not harvested anything yet, so i can't say i mind it yet.

It is quite a small space once everything is loaded in there, so i can imagine you would switch things up to benefit. i'll keep an eye here to see how you do with it.

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

To be effective in that set up, I think I would have needed to do a Marloesque VScrOG... but that would have totally eliminated access to the garden. I used some other training techniques, and everything was 'fine'... but I just kept overgrowing my space once I got temps and humidity under control, and there were some little details that bugged me about the set up.

So...

I pulled the plug on that build-out.

Except for this one lady... and I put cutting her down off... and put it off... then decided to try and blast her in a horizontal set up. Just because she was there.

The girls could seem to take as much light as I could throw at them, and now I'm throwing a lot...

We'll see if I can keep up with this over driven system...

If I can, I bet her main flowers will not be able to keep themselves together, and I'll be seeing plenty of foxtailing myself.

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

My records:

Thinned/Lolipopped today.

 

[redspaghetti]

Every time i step in this thread, its like reading well detailed books
with humors and wits, splendid job!

Ladies are looking lush and happy, as well.

thanks for sharing
cheers

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

Two days ago. Now the fans are buried. Should do something about that...

 

[delta9nxs]

hey, that thing is turning into a monster! have you got enough headroom?

it looks very healthy. i think i see some slight tubing on some lower leaves but not enough to be a problem.

where are you in the grow time wise?

i wish we had some way of measuring o2 in the center of the root mass. you may be on to something here with the volume.

have you checked the control bucket to see how much time it takes to go back to equilibrium?

and is the drip resuming between pulses and for how long?

you sure could use a quantum meter here.

really looks nice!

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

hey, that thing is turning into a monster! have you got enough headroom

Flipped eight days ago. Did not expect this kind of stretch across the board. Although, there's no reason I shouldn't have. I'm going to be tighter than I hoped... I had imagined finishing closer to where I'm starting from.

VerdantGreen warned me that I might have already been too late. Looks like it.

i think i see some slight tubing on some lower leaves but not enough to be a problem.

I don't see it in person. Or notice it. I have my active intake pushing up into the bottom of the screen... and that's caused some windburn earlier in the grow. Some of the malformations that I haven't cleaned out seem to be associated with that.

have you checked the control bucket to see how much time it takes to go back to equilibrium?

About a minute. I don't know if I mentioned this, but my pulse is nearly draining the control.

When I didn't have the top off reservoir attached, I'd be down about 1/2 gallon immediately. I might recover some with the wick slow draining the PWT, but I don't know.

The bottom and edges of the media container is drilled with small holes... as is the top edges of the sub reservoir's top... to allow for more direct drainage.

and is the drip resuming between pulses and for how long?

From what I can tell, it refills what was left behind in the media, and then (with only one plant in the 'loop') I don't hear it drip. But I also have it topped to reduce evaporation. Maybe I'll try and pay more attention.

My guess is that there is so much solution contained in the media, that I'm not really pulling from the bottom too much--that is: that the sub reservoir and air gap is controlling my moisture profile, but I'm probably not pulling too much up through it with my current pulse schedule.

I should note that there is a distinctive pH and EC swing relative to light cycle, but these measurements are largely stable to the same time each day.

you sure could use a quantum meter here.

I need to pull the trigger... hit up spurr for his recommendations...

My FootCandle meter is f'd up. I pulled it apart. Nothing visibly wrong. Might try and borrow one... or really, get the quantum meter and get to the real numbers.

The plant is not showing signs of heat-burning with the current set up with the bulbs closer than when I started out, and had some local burning. So either I've adjusted my airflow, etc. or the plant has adapted.

really looks nice!

Thanks. You brought up an important point at the top of your post, namely, is there enough head room. And currently, she's about three inches taller than in the above photo... so I bounce back and forth between being stunned by the growth, and then anxious on how to manage it.

I already need to strip out the understory again of another 120 leads that are just complicating matters.

I've never had temps and humidity so reasonable in a horizontal scrog before, with an over pulsed PPK! I really am just trying to adapt on a daily basis to what I'm seeing, and adjust might happen next.

I certainly didn't see this continued stretch pushing so hard, and in addition to the mechanical airflow (the girl is always a wigglin'), I manipulate stems and give the whole deal a shake down multiple times a day.

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

Five day old pics of scarring:

Above shows the size of the leader, before I chopped her back and forced her horizontal... I should really have a current photo up... it's even funnier.

I was really worried that she wasn't going to make it after breaking woody limbs to get her under the scrog... acutally, I LST'd her breaks.

I the brown marks are where I tied her back together, but she was starting to choke off, so I let her go naturally.

Right now, I am no longer worried about her breaks.

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

Stripped/defoliated last night.

Got about 30% through lolly-popping, didn't like the look of it, and transitioned to defoliation. My initial focus was air flow through the under-canopy, but then, midway, (and surprisingly) it became flower sites. Imagine that.

If I had been smarter, I could have done half and half, and had my very on side by side thread... no bitching about which plant was stronger or environmental conditions!

(The screen's still a bit unbalanced from the afterthought set up anyway.)

The stretch I'm getting isn't good stretch I've decided. It's light deprivation stretch. The kinda shit you see in overcrowded veg rooms where plants aren't allowed to expand. I could have had mini-shrubs if I had really reduced my leads, and let them all become little plants. But even now, that's not what I'm shooting for. Just pretty, symmetrical, terminals. I just don't like the naked 12" of stem above the screen.

On the upside, it looks like node length is tightening and the plants are starting to stack. I doubt it'll push more than another eight inches.

Still need to elevate the side fans. They're six inches under the canopy.

 

[delta9nxs]

“The bottom and edges of the media container is drilled with small holes... as is the top edges of the sub reservoir's top... to allow for more direct drainage.”


i'm gonna kill you! I have been wondering how in the hell you could put 64 oz's into the container without an overflow using a 1.5” tailpiece. I mean sleepless nights, dude! Now i've got to see how you've drilled both the bottom of the grow container and the top of the res. If you don't have pics and/or can't get them right now maybe you could put up a drawing showing hole placement and sizes?


“I should note that there is a distinctive pH and EC swing relative to light cycle, but these measurements are largely stable to the same time each day.”


i'm very curious as to the timing of this. Is this a 24 hour swing? Have you tried to correlate this to your feed ec?


“Five day old pics of scarring:”


the stem and branch development show that the plant is getting a lot of 02. from the looks of your pics maybe you were a little late flipping. I'm no scrog expert but have done a few and I would flip the sweet tooth when the screen was about 2/3 full. Can you raise the lights much?


“Stripped/defoliated last night.”


defoliation is about the only tool you have left now. If done severely it could put the brakes on upward growth.

Now close your eyes and imagine me kicking the shit out of you! It's the best I can hope for online!

 

[oldone]

Five day old pics of scarring:

Above shows the size of the leader, before I chopped her back and forced her horizontal... I should really have a current photo up... it's even funnier.

I was really worried that she wasn't going to make it after breaking woody limbs to get her under the scrog... acutally, I LST'd her breaks.

I the brown marks are where I tied her back together, but she was starting to choke off, so I let her go naturally.

Right now, I am no longer worried about her breaks.

HI guys, I'm back! Had a nasty lightning strike 2 weeks ago and lost a lot of kit.

Anyway IF, she looks just like one of my bent and twisted ladies. Well done!

OO

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

oo,

glad you made it through.

Scrogging is kinda fun.

And she's acting like one of your forever AHs. Not really. She's supposed to be stretching, but in need it to end!

D9:

i'm gonna kill you! I have been wondering how in the hell you could put 64 oz's into the container without an overflow using a 1.5” tailpiece. I mean sleepless nights, dude! Now i've got to see how you've drilled both the bottom of the grow container and the top of the res. If you don't have pics and/or can't get them right now maybe you could put up a drawing showing hole placement and sizes?

Nothing special. 15 smaller than average holes across the bottom, and the same along the bottom rim of the bucket.

Each corrugation along the lid has the same. Lets call it 1/4" holes.

I also have a few inches of space between the top of the media and the top of the 5 gallon, so I can hold moisture on top of the media.

They texture of the media is continually changing... becoming more spongy and rebounds to the touch. When I first started over pulsing, I was moving surface coco. Now it's a solid (spongy) mat of roots.

Additionally, it isn't percolating as fast, and I'm not getting any seepage from the sides or bottom anymore. It just puddles across the surface (1/2"), and then slowly drains down and through. Playing with Nappa 8822, the coco with rootmass is way slower.

I also figured out why I don't have drips. The control refills fast enough that when I hit equilibrium from my drainage, I'm about 1/2 inch above where the float shuts down. I tweaked it in an equilibrium state, so I'm maintaining my 3 inch air gap, but it probably has to drop to 3.5" before I get feed from the bulk again.

Also, I have a 3" tailpiece. I know I haven't mentioned that detail in a year or so... but...

'm very curious as to the timing of this. Is this a 24 hour swing? Have you tried to correlate this to your feed ec?

I've thought about it. I've planned for it. I just haven't done it. My EC monitor is in the control right now, and I'd have to switch it. Which means doing something... hum... should I do something?

I think my contribution to the PPK phenomenon is showing how it robustly stands up to negligence.

I would say that based on casual observation, the EC swings in phases that change by the hour, and then is evens out during the dark phase. With my pulse, I've got super fast flush/exchange of all the solution in the control/lower bucket/media all the time... So I might be seeing micro-metabolic trends.

But I'm relying on uninformed speculation based on a piece of electronics to draw these conclusions. And I don't trust the electro stuff too much.

Not to mention my uninformed speculation.

I took out four or five gallons of material last night. She looks undisturbed eight hours later.

The defoliated sections... and I know I'm talking about things that can't be happening as fast as I'm claiming... have the structure I'm looking for already.

So defoliation it is. Compact terminals, here we come.

 

[disciple]

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

Post 357. Magnum. Dangerous.

Post 357. Magnum. Dangerous.

Ha:

Not a great perspective. Five days since last posted pic.

This one:

Flowerset showed up yesterday (today's pic):

 

[VerdantGreen]

hey IF, just checking in, looks like you'll just about get away with it
. sometimes those grows where you nearly run out of space can be good yielders. i like to think of a scrog as a 'box' full of colas rather than a flat screen of buds.

cheers

VG

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

Thanks for checking in vg.

God knows I need the supervision.

If I really monkey around with my lamp mounting points, I can still give up about six inches, maybe eight. I can move up maybe four without too much effort.

Box full of colas sounds okay to me.

I kinda like the sound of that.

She's stripped down to 60-70 primaries, so she might be a little crowded. Guess it's just wait and see.

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

Well, I had to give up my last easy four inches.

I finally got the bleaching of the leaves I was looking for.

Good for me?

(One shade leaf with a thermal burn.)

This might not make it through to the end. Woody stems are resisting supercropping, and if I hard modify my mounting points I can only give up four our inches before i'm maxed out.

Maybe I'll try and gently tie everything down and at an angle.

Not quitting just yet.

But I've seen some things that I wanted to see.

My over pulse (15 sec with 400gph pump) is sitting on top of the coco, taking 25 seconds to drain now. The root mat at the top of the plant is just becoming so dense that there just isn't room for solution to move through. I don't know what it means long term... but in the short term, the growth has been massive.

Every time you change one thing, you change everything.