ICMAG Administration endorses The Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010

[dagnabit]

Voting is one of the principles of Democracy.

Without getting technical here:

One of the definitions of Democracy is living with and accepting the outcome of elections.

Even if one is not willing to accept the outcome it still should be tolerated.

What I highlighted in your statement...is a very bad thing to even just think not to mention openly wish.


.

so those who opposed desegregation with their votes should have been "tolerated"?

how far do you go with that?
those germans whom voted for hitler should have been tolerated?

the temperance ladies were tolerated.... look where they led us.

What I highlighted in your statement...is a very bad thing to even just think not to mention openly wish.

and every no voter openly wish the worst things upon us, i just dont see the same level of condemnation for there wishing of the worst for everyone but themselves.

but pigs get fat and hogs get butchered...

and those greedy prohibitionist scum have led themselves to the killing room...

even bill fucking maher said prop 19 failed because cali was not ready for legalization.

the tee totalers and leo have their "mandate" now..

you reap what you sow and prohibitionists have sown hermied schwag with their no votes.
they deserve the seed ridden garbage coming their way

 

[JJScorpio]

This is probably the most honest thing I've read in months.....

"There’s a large movement up here of people who realize that their self interest lies in keeping marijuana illegal," says Hank Sims, the editor of the North Coast Journal, based in the Humboldt town of Eureka. Growers in the Emerald Triangle's rugged hills and foggy redwood groves are shielded from the snooping eyes of the DEA, but that advantage would become a handicap if pot could be openly cultivated in California's warm, flat, agribusiness-dominated Central Valley. North Coast ganja growers "have got government-sponsored price control in the form of busts," Sims explains. "So I think a lot of people kind of cynically voted their pocketbook and voted to keep it illegal."

The real surprise is that cannabis cultivators convinced a majority of voters in the three counties (two of which strongly lean to the left) to side with them. "Our export product is weed, by and large," Sims notes. And in an isolated corner of the state where the timber and salmon fishing industries that once paid the bills long ago collapsed, people who aren't weed growers are mostly earning their keep by selling things like food, fertilizer and firearms to them. Sims explains: "This is the cornerstone of our economy."

In my opinion as long as the Cali med laws stay as lax as they are, I don't think you'll ever see Cali vote to legalize. In two more years there will be that many more people in the game and with a med card. It is what it is.......

 

[vta]

In my opinion as long as the Cali med laws stay as lax as they are, I don't think you'll ever see Cali vote to legalize. In two more years there will be that many more people in the game and with a med card. It is what it is.......

For once...lets hope your wrong

 

[rick shaw]

That is an interesting and very candid opinion. "Have got government-sponsored price controls in the form of busts" To view the current laws on the book and their enforcement as an acceptable form of a business model. Arrests and prosecutions are a way to thin the herd/prop the price. He should be put on a victory parade for Cooley. http://articles.latimes.com/2009/nov/18/local/me-medical-marijuana18

 

[Thomkal Vwalaa]

4:20 - 6:30pm Panel; Prop 19 Explaining the election results
Rob Kampia, Chris Conrad, Stevie DeAngelo, Omar Figueroa, Mikki Norris

Just saw this panel and let me tell you what I heard.

SB 1449 which passed recently is horrible. It doesn't change the penalty for possession, BUT it does take away your right to a trial. So it may save the courts tons of money, but we don't get to fight our possession tickets.

With 19 failing, and the good chance of a republican president in 2012, the dispensaries will be under attack, and therefore the vendors will be put at risk. This drives the actual medical vendors back to the damn black market for OUR OWN SAFETY.

The best we can do in CA right now is push to protect current medical laws, as legalization will not make it in 2012 (Lee is broke and there is no one else). And if we have fucking Romney/Palin in there, who knows how far they will take it. Did you know Palin has fake tits and a fake nose? LOL

What else... Ed Rosenthal thinks Dragonfly della hooch was paid by the no on 19 people to publicly spread their misinformation. They all bashed dragonfly.

Uh, the youth did not vote, and the triangle did not vote. We don't have a chance in the near future because so many are against legal commercial pot (to compete with the illegal commercial pot).

But Oakland and Berkeley don't give a fuck about state OR fed law and they are going forward, balls out. Maybe Lee can make another million to dump into pro-legalization activism in a few years if he is the only one with the balls to do openly commercial ganja?

 

[JJScorpio]

It might not matter who puts up the money or what the prop says. There are to many people with cards and way to many people growing for profit. And like I said. There will only be more in two years. Not to many people are willing to give up that tax free income.

The real question should be is how long is the State of California going to sit back and let all of those billions go into everyone's hands but their own? For that matter, how long are the Feds going to allow it? I think this election educated people on what's been going on. I mean, not that I care, but how long before a quarter of the population has a med card, lol? Does anyone have any exact numbers of the number of people in Cali with med cards?

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

You can take it from me that there has been a new 'erb fueled California gold rush going on since the mid 70's.....I was there in the late 70's and part of it as it started to gear-up....

Obviously the people that have made serious coin from this gold rush over the last 30+ years could not and have not paid taxes on their earnings until recently when some of the dispensaries have dropped a few bucks in the tax-man's lap.....

Those that are still prospecting and harvesting under prohibition have made the calculated risks to do so factoring in the potential of getting caught and possibly doing time behind the wrong sort of bars for it....and they just want to continue with what they are doing without seeing demand or prices decrease, so I can see why they would not welcome any change.....the bottom line is money, and their ability to make as much of it as possible....

Now that Prop 19 has failed are we to see more federal involvement to try and eradicate these commercial growers?......the signs are that sadly this might be the case...

I don't think that the State of California is going to sit back and let all of these billions of dollars go into everyone's hands but their own so they will increase law enforcement and introduce new technologies to find more grows.......and the more growers they bust the more difficult it will be to grow and so the price of 'erb will go up.....so that those that get away with growing commercially will probably prosper even more from it......Greater risks= higher prices.....

 

[Ben Tokin]

4:20 - 6:30pm Panel; Prop 19 Explaining the election results
Rob Kampia, Chris Conrad, Stevie DeAngelo, Omar Figueroa, Mikki Norris

Just saw this panel and let me tell you what I heard.

SB 1449 which passed recently is horrible. It doesn't change the penalty for possession, BUT it does take away your right to a trial. So it may save the courts tons of money, but we don't get to fight our possession tickets.

With 19 failing, and the good chance of a republican president in 2012, the dispensaries will be under attack, and therefore the vendors will be put at risk. This drives the actual medical vendors back to the damn black market for OUR OWN SAFETY.

The best we can do in CA right now is push to protect current medical laws, as legalization will not make it in 2012 (Lee is broke and there is no one else). And if we have fucking Romney/Palin in there, who knows how far they will take it. Did you know Palin has fake tits and a fake nose? LOL

What else... Ed Rosenthal thinks Dragonfly della hooch was paid by the no on 19 people to publicly spread their misinformation. They all bashed dragonfly.

Uh, the youth did not vote, and the triangle did not vote. We don't have a chance in the near future because so many are against legal commercial pot (to compete with the illegal commercial pot).

But Oakland and Berkeley don't give a fuck about state OR fed law and they are going forward, balls out. Maybe Lee can make another million to dump into pro-legalization activism in a few years if he is the only one with the balls to do openly commercial ganja?

I have a recommendation for the canna community. Let's all stop the unreasonable defamation of people just because you think it will gain you more acceptance from other members.

There is no justification for making these false and offensive statements. It only serves to show others your lack of understanding and ability to reason.

It would be beneficial if all of us would make a concerted effort to bring more people to the anti-prohibition side of this issue. I suggest we lose the political bias because it only serves to create an atmosphere of hate and division.

We need to bring more people on board to support legalization. If this kind of rhetoric continues it will further damage the support from those we need to fight this battle.

Let's build a consensus using truth and understanding. We need to show everyone that cannabis users are not just progressive liberals and uneducated dropouts.

The truth is, we need to show everyone that cannabis is a useful and harmless herb. There is no political line drawn when it comes to common sense.

 

[JJScorpio]

Gypsys right. If the Feds start arresting people, supply will diminish and prices will go even higher... I'm not sure, but it seems that it could be way out of the States control at this point. This machine has been building steam for a few decades now. I think even Californians might be surprised at the number of commercial growers there... I wouldn't even be able to guess....

If this were to happen people will wish 19 had passed. Instead of the Feds focusing on the med people, dispensories and med growers, they'd be concentrating on stopping large scale grows under 19..... Only time will tell......

 

[Ben Tokin]

Hey JJ, I think you should start a thread to solicit the best ideas on how to eliminate prohibition. We could develop a blueprint strategy to join many diverse and interested groups to build an overwhelming consensus force to overturn these idiotic laws.

What good is a community of cannabis users if we don't develop a leadership role to have cannabis gain international acceptance? Why do we have to cower in a darkened corner when we have the facts and common sense on our side?

 

[Thomkal Vwalaa]

Gypsys right. If the Feds start arresting people, supply will diminish and prices will go even higher...

Supplies will not diminish beyond market demand, there is a major glut already. Supplies may even-out and pound prices may stabilize.
Black market price may go up, but dispensary vendor price may go down as more patients turn to the black market out of fear.

I'm not sure, but it seems that it could be way out of the States control at this point. This machine has been building steam for a few decades now. I think even Californians might be surprised at the number of commercial growers there... I wouldn't even be able to guess....

Yeah, the private prisons and court system depends on imprisoned stoners, we are easy money. Thousands for sure, maybe tens of thousands. Depends on the definition of commercial.

If this were to happen people will wish 19 had passed. Instead of the Feds focusing on the med people, dispensories and med growers, they'd be concentrating on stopping large scale grows under 19..... Only time will tell......

Already wishing. At least there are thousands of illegal commercial ops to keep the feds busy. And then the oakland warehouses will get the attention. Then the LA dispensaries. After all that, then the medical growers need to watch out.

 

[Thomkal Vwalaa]

Hey JJ, I think you should start a thread to solicit the best ideas on how to eliminate prohibition. We could develop a blueprint strategy to join many diverse and interested groups to build an overwhelming consensus force to overturn these idiotic laws.

What good is a community of cannabis users if we don't develop a leadership role to have cannabis gain international acceptance? Why do we have to cower in a darkened corner when we have the facts and common sense on our side?

I think the medical model is the first step towards any Cannabis normalization. The end of prohibition is far in the future, and has ZERO chance until Cannabis is rescheduled federally. That is the start in the US.

First, we acknowledge this plant is not worse than cocaine. Then we acknowledge it has medicinal benefits for cancer treatment and a few other serious ailments. Then we acknowledge that Cannabis treats many ailments. Then we need to make that jump from medical to recreation, which honestly, is just going to take time, the old folks have to die off so the mindsets will change. The old folks rule the polls. Once we are the old folks, and our kids are in charge, there will be no group of voters who believe in reefer madness.

 

[Baba Ku]

I would suspect the number of adults 40-65 who subscribe to the reefer madness mentality are few and far between. Most all know what pot is and how it generally effects people who use it. Try to find an adult of that age that thinks pot sends you on a lunatic trip of madness.
I can tell you what that age group does hold though...knowledge and wisdom. That group is the spoke of the society wheel. Not of nonage, which we have seen the sloth and ignorance of youth. And not of dotage, which everyone knows may well live in the past but hardly effects the events and lives of society as a whole.

No, these are the people that actually read bills, and have a good understanding of things they read. Thy are also the ones who are less likely to be swayed by petty bullshit rhetoric. This group of people are the ones we need to educate, not demonize.
That tactic is for ignorant people, both in usage and subscription.

And another thing....I hear talk of how we should all be afraid of the election in 2012 when it may be likely a republican may take high office. IMO, you folks are simply using your conventional wisdom on this one and not using your heads. I think you will find that those who practice this shallow form of demonizing have a thing of two out of whack.
First off, where is it in the republicans charter to attack pot on all levels? Are drugs even a part of their charter? How about the democrats, where is it in their charter to be the champion of pot? Get real folks, this is not a political issue. Only in the minds of the galactically shallow could folks see that a particular party is waging war and the other is fighting for us. Sure they want you to think these things, but there is nothing that would support it in fact. Simply more demonizing by the less than learned.

And how can we educate folks when so many of us have our heads up our asses?
Yes, I am speaking to you with your head all stuck up there in the dark...

 

[miltonchitlin]

It's true Dennis Peron, Craig Canada, Leland Cole, Dragonfly were either paid or under the puppet strings of Peron to assassinate prop 19. The real danger to prop 215 patients is AG Cooley, who has regained a widening lead. I'd love to see who's on Cooley's payroll.

The assumption young voters or growers in Mendo or Humboldt had much impact is false. It boils down that although heavily democratic, the voting ideology is 60% conservative in California. We see it on prop 8 and 19. I doubt 215 would pass, now.

With Cooley coming, you better grab your ass and hide your stash.

 

[dagnabit]

I think the medical model is the first step towards any Cannabis normalization. The end of prohibition is far in the future, and has ZERO chance until Cannabis is rescheduled federally. That is the start in the US.

First, we acknowledge this plant is not worse than cocaine. Then we acknowledge it has medicinal benefits for cancer treatment and a few other serious ailments. Then we acknowledge that Cannabis treats many ailments. Then we need to make that jump from medical to recreation, which honestly, is just going to take time, the old folks have to die off so the mindsets will change. The old folks rule the polls. Once we are the old folks, and our kids are in charge, there will be no group of voters who believe in reefer madness.

the problem is the one stated at the one we have seen...
apathy.
"i got my med card why would i rock the boat"

 

[Guest 88950]

exactly dag, the "i got mine" crowd.

with all the info and speculation as to why prop19 failed its only a matter of time before a different state moves forward toward legalization. a state that doesnt have such a lax medical law and doesnt have the number of producers that vote for keeping the status quo.

i just dont see Cali being able to appease enough voters to pass a legalization bill until one of 2 things occure.

1. another state legalizes and the price drops which in turn hits the producers pocketbook in Cali. instead of exporting $2000 lb cannabis out of Cali cheap legal cannabis will be imported.

2. some drastic changes in how easy it is to get a medical rec for cannabis in Cali. if this occurred then there will be more incentive to legalize Cannabis for recreational use b/c people using the medical system for a Non Serious illness or disability just to get high might be in jeopardy of not being able to get their med rec renewed.


i can live with the failure of prop19 b/c that prop didnt directly effect me but this was a HUGE opportunity to do what all of us dream of doing, undermine the US drug policy.

the US is the BULLY of the world and our politicians/DEA need a Beat Down and Legalizing Cannabis in ANY US state would be the first step b/c it would empower the leaders of other countries to break away from the US Drug Policy and reform their drug laws that protects their interest. the interest of keeping their citizens safe from the violence associated with the illegal trafficking of drugs and reducing the $ ammount spent upholding drug laws that were influenced by the US.

the opportunity for Cali to take a huge blow at undermining the influence the US Govt has regarding cannabis laws has passed. i just hope nations like Mexico can find the courage to see through the failure of prop19 and realize that there is a lot of support for legalizing cannabis and they go ahead and do whats right for them regardless of what the US govt has to say.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

and every no voter openly wish the worst things upon us, i just dont see the same level of condemnation for there wishing of the worst for everyone but themselves.

You're truly missing the big picture here. Those voters are us. They aren't wishing the worst for everyone, and they aren't exempt from their votes' results.

Quit drawing lines and conclusions about how we aren't all one community.... it's making me sick.

StrainHunter pointed out a pretty basic truth for your consideration.

Instead of arguing over it, you could just consider it first.

Voting is one of the principles of Democracy.

Without getting technical here:

One of the definitions of Democracy is living with and accepting the outcome of elections.

Even if one is not willing to accept the outcome it still should be tolerated.

What I highlighted in your statement...is a very bad thing to even just think not to mention openly wish.


.

so those who opposed desegregation with their votes should have been "tolerated"?

how far do you go with that?
those germans whom voted for hitler should have been tolerated?

the temperance ladies were tolerated.... look where they led us.

You don't have tolerance in your vocabulary. Would you rather subjugate people to your will (which is right and worthy) rather than let them freely choose their own doom (which is wrong and stupid)?

Democracy... look it up.

We are all in this together. We all go down together. We built this city on rock and roll. Don't rock it, it's time to roll.

 

[CrazyCooter]

I don't think that the State of California is going to sit back and let all of these billions of dollars go into everyone's hands but their own so they will increase law enforcement and introduce new technologies to find more grows.......and the more growers they bust the more difficult it will be to grow and so the price of 'erb will go up.....so that those that get away with growing commercially will probably prosper even more from it......Greater risks= higher prices.....

These billions go out in the community, get spent, and get taxed on these transactions. This happens multiple times. They just don't get taxed directly by Sacramento. The state trying to stop the economy created by cannabis would ultimately decrease tax revenue. They can't afford to slow down the biggest cash crop in the state when the economy is in the shitter. They would be shooting themselves in the foot. They still collect plenty of taxes on this money, just one step down the line.

 

[JJScorpio]

There's a huge difference between a 7 percent sales tax, or whatever it is compared to a 33 percent income tax..... And if I'm not mistaken the bulk of sales tax goes to the Counties, not the State.....

 

[Thomkal Vwalaa]

I would suspect the number of adults 40-65 who subscribe to the reefer madness mentality are few and far between.

speaking of heads up their asses, who ever considers old to mean 40-65... old means 65+.... nice try

baba, if you think medical mj is not a political issue i would suspect your head has passed your anus and has made it to your large intestine.