How to bring terps and essential oils out on a strain?

[Shua1991]

I'm starting a project I've been working on for 3 years now, starting a Nettle patch in my yard, then harvesting enough for fermented plant juice. Nettle has most of the macro/micro nutrients at ratios cannabis likes, easily absorbed via foliar and roots. Also makes great salad and teas.

 

[Rocket Soul]

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I'm starting a project I've been working on for 3 years now, starting a Nettle patch in my yard, then harvesting enough for fermented plant juice. Nettle has most of the macro/micro nutrients at ratios cannabis likes, easily absorbed via foliar and roots. Also makes great salad and teas.

It can also help against pests, as long as its those stingie nettles.

 

[Rocket Soul]

This study has a lot to offer on different led spectrums, one of the conditions showing increase in terps with full statisical significance. I really recommend it.
Edit
Doh, its too large. Ill tryy to come back with a link

 

[Rocket Soul]

Dug out the link to the study. Main take away was that supplementing both 660 and 640nm was superior to same amount 660 red only in almost every way; which means studying how our plant responds to red, green and blue is probably a bad approach, unless you factor in what parts of these respective spectrum the plant actually need. With regards to terps; they were increseased significantly in the high intensity wide dual peak red condition; it was the only condition to achieve these results. https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/plant-science/articles/10.3389/fpls.2024.1393803/full

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Really appreciate you chasing that down for you and sharing with us.

 

[little-soldier]

Ive not checked that link but as far as ive understood the carbon in the soil/nutrients is more to support bacteria/funghi and all those tiny beasties; which in turn get used by the plants; plants exude sugars from the roots and get nutes from the beasties in exchange.

If this carbon based nutes actually mean the carbon gets absorbed by roots it would be easy to test: just try to run a carbon based nute grow but sterilize the root zone completely. If it works without live soil then what you say should be possible.

Sorry, i dont wanna seem like im piling onto you and i dont really have a horse in this thing you got going with DC. But i think the discussion here seems to derail things a bit. Surely there is more to be discussed rather than rabbits and alpacas and what chatgpt answers we should listen to? Not trying to offend anyone

Does anyone have around any info on terps andd drought stress? Or any other type of improving terps? And are we talking objective measures or more "it smells better to my nose"?

If i recall correctly the thread was started by you by asking what could be the secret trick of your cali friend. Now it seems like your already know the answer and are just trying to convince us all. Lets get this back to a discussion rather than an pissing contest.

Sorry if my phrasing isnt diplomatic i dont wanna come across as abrasive just wanna discuss this subject that interest me further

Forget about smells, im talking about taste only. Only reason I mentionned alpaca is because of douglas. He knows i tried both and rabbit didnt do much. Im always open minded and looking for other products/methods to test and improve the taste of my cannabis. As for douglas well, he is just here to promote his future rabbit poop product which i know for a fact is a lesser product than alpacas. I posted my results on his thread over a year ago and instead of keeping an open mind and trying alpaca poop for himself, he discredited my results with lame excuses. Its ok douglas, you just gotta work on your ego thats all.

 

[little-soldier]

Ive not checked that link but as far as ive understood the carbon in the soil/nutrients is more to support bacteria/funghi and all those tiny beasties; which in turn get used by the plants; plants exude sugars from the roots and get nutes from the beasties in exchange.

If this carbon based nutes actually mean the carbon gets absorbed by roots it would be easy to test: just try to run a carbon based nute grow but sterilize the root zone completely. If it works without live soil then what you say should be possible.

Sorry, i dont wanna seem like im piling onto you and i dont really have a horse in this thing you got going with DC. But i think the discussion here seems to derail things a bit. Surely there is more to be discussed rather than rabbits and alpacas and what chatgpt answers we should listen to? Not trying to offend anyone

Does anyone have around any info on terps andd drought stress? Or any other type of improving terps? And are we talking objective measures or more "it smells better to my nose"?

If i recall correctly the thread was started by you by asking what could be the secret trick of your cali friend. Now it seems like your already know the answer and are just trying to convince us all. Lets get this back to a discussion rather than an pissing contest.

Sorry if my phrasing isnt diplomatic i dont wanna come across as abrasive just wanna discuss this subject that interest me further

and drought stress doesnt do jack to terps. got the same strain going for years and some plants are bone dry before they get watered. tastes the same so another myth

 

[mudballs]

There was this one paper and everyone went bannanas over it

Increasing Inflorescence Dry Weight and Cannabinoid Content in Medical Cannabis Using Controlled Drought Stress

Controlled application of drought can increase secondary metabolite concentrations in some essential oil-producing crops. To evaluate the effects of drought on cannabis (Cannabis sativa L.) inflorescence dry weight and cannabinoid content, drought stress was applied to container-grown cannabis...

journals.ashs.org

It was a 54d flowering strain and they only did it in week 7...waited 11d, then fertigated again. I do not subscribe to this. Like marathon runner in death valley and you refuse the runner water the last 10miles...how the fk can that help a living organism?
Edit, of course it increases "concentrations",...you just dehydrated the fkn thing for 11d!

 

[The Vermonster]

There was this one paper and everyone went bannanas over it

Increasing Inflorescence Dry Weight and Cannabinoid Content in Medical Cannabis Using Controlled Drought Stress

Controlled application of drought can increase secondary metabolite concentrations in some essential oil-producing crops. To evaluate the effects of drought on cannabis (Cannabis sativa L.) inflorescence dry weight and cannabinoid content, drought stress was applied to container-grown cannabis...

journals.ashs.org

It was a 54d flowering strain and they only did it in week 7...waited 11d, then fertigated again. I do not subscribe to this. Like marathon runner in death valley and you refuse the runner water the last 10miles...how the fk can that help a living organism?
Edit, of course it increases "concentrations",...you just dehydrated the fkn thing for 11d!

Subjecting the plants to that kind of drought stress can be a little on the drastic side, most especially during a very sensitive stage of growth.It is something like having a marathon champion denied a drink in the final moments of the race, non-feasible!

 

[Rocket Soul]

and drought stress doesnt do jack to terps. got the same strain going for years and some plants are bone dry before they get watered. tastes the same so another myth

Then what do you think is your cali friends secret trick for more terps?

 

[Rocket Soul]

and drought stress doesnt do jack to terps. got the same strain going for years and some plants are bone dry before they get watered. tastes the same so another myth

Would you please expand on this? What did your application look like? What do you bone dry, pot dry or wilted plant? Did you try it on purpose or did it just happen due not having been been watered?

 

[Rocket Soul]

There was this one paper and everyone went bannanas over it

Increasing Inflorescence Dry Weight and Cannabinoid Content in Medical Cannabis Using Controlled Drought Stress

Controlled application of drought can increase secondary metabolite concentrations in some essential oil-producing crops. To evaluate the effects of drought on cannabis (Cannabis sativa L.) inflorescence dry weight and cannabinoid content, drought stress was applied to container-grown cannabis...

journals.ashs.org

It was a 54d flowering strain and they only did it in week 7...waited 11d, then fertigated again. I do not subscribe to this. Like marathon runner in death valley and you refuse the runner water the last 10miles...how the fk can that help a living organism?
Edit, of course it increases "concentrations",...you just dehydrated the fkn thing for 11d!

I think you missunderstand the study. They counted cannabinoid yield per area, not concentration per volume of bud. And even when they talk about weights they normalize for moisture content of the in the inflorence. Its not just a case of concentrations went up cause water content went down.

I agree that it seems antithetical to growing a plant but it seems fairly solid. Has nobody ever been able to replicate this? Though i agree i wouldnt do this in my grow solely based on this one study.

But you also have to consider your statement of "helping a living organism" - is the cannabinoids a result of a "helped plant" or a challenged plant? Just cause we like the cannabinoids and value them as as success doesnt mean the same for the plant.

 

[mudballs]

"Other than the notable exceptions in sage, increased essential oil yield per unit growing area is rarely cited (Kleinwächter and Selmar, 2015), possibly because drought stress has well-documented negative impacts on plant growth and can reduce harvestable plant material. Drought reduces rates of carbon assimilation as a result of both stomatal and metabolic limitations"

It's just some guys that wanted to get published and made wordplay work

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

They also did this during a period of time when the plant is going through the highest oil production phase. I too have issues with the numbers being thrown about by that study. heh

 

[Rocket Soul]

Ok, it reminds me of something similar with regards to one dodgy study becoming a legion of zombie ideas, is a hen out of a feather an expression or my imagination? Thx for checking it, ill discard that idea.

 

[FellaAndrene]

Couple of other studies on the subject:

Effects of short-term environmental stresses on the onset of cannabinoid production in young immature flowers of industrial hemp (Cannabis sativa L.)

The 5 days of mechanical wounding did not affect the production of any of the cannabinoids during the initial stage of flowering. However, after 5 days of herbivore treatment, there was a significant difference in concentration between day 1 and day 6 of CBGA (control: 308 μg/g; treatment – 24 μg/g), CBG (control: 69 μg/g; treatment: 52 μg/g), and CBD (control: 755 μg/g; treatment: 194 μg/g) between the control and treatment plants. The 7 days of heat treatment at 45–50 oC significantly reduced the production of CBGA during this observed window (control: 206 μg/g; treatment: 182 μg/g) and CBG (control: 21 μg/g; treatment: − 112 μg/g). Notably, the largest change was observed after 7 days of drought stress, when plants showed a 40% greater accumulation of CBG (control: 336 μg/g; treatment: 622 μg/g), and a significant decrease (70–80%) in CBD (control: 1182 μg/g; treatment: 297 μg/g) and THC amounts (control: 3927 μg/g; treatment: 580 μg/g).

Severe drought significantly reduces floral hemp (Cannabis sativa L.) yield and cannabinoid content but moderate drought does not (2024)

Floral Hemp (Cannabis sativa L.) is a new crop of interest due to its capacity of producing medicinally active substances such as cannabidiol (CBD) and other cannabinoids and low tetrahydrocannabinol (THC). Preliminary experiments performed in high-THC cannabis have found that light drought stress close to inflorescence maturity can increase THC levels raising concerns about the negative effects that drought can have on floral hemp production. Therefore, the objective of this study was to examine the effects of various timings and levels of drought on floral hemp yield, CBD and THC content. The hemp cultivars ‘BaOx’ and ‘Cherry Mom’ were planted in a commercial greenhouse setting in 2021 and 2022 and grown under well-watered conditions until flowering, at which drought treatments started. Moderate drought intensities (30–50 % field capacity) did not modify yield or THC and cannabidiol (CBD) levels. However, intense drought treatments led to significantly decreased yield and THC and CBD concentrations. Overall, drought stress reduced the THC percentage less than CBD, therefore decreasing the CBD:THC ratio. This research also demonstrates that intense drought decreases THC and CBD content instead of increasing it.

Physiological and morphological responses of industrial hemp (Cannabis sativa L.) to water deficit (2022)

With drought projected to increase in severity and frequency in the future, selection of emerging drought-tolerant species that exhibit improved water use efficiency will be key to maintaining cropping productivity. Industrial hemp (Cannabis sativa) shows potential for cropping in water-limited environments, but studies into its water use and drought tolerance are conflicting. We evaluated the morphological, physiological and biochemical responses of the industrial hemp cultivar ‘Black Label’ to extreme and moderate water deficit in an 85-day greenhouse experiment. Under water deficit, hemp reduced biomass production and total seed yield, but maintained filled seeds for effective reproduction. Water use efficiency, measured using δ13C isotope analysis, increased under water deficit due to reductions in stomatal opening and transpiration. Water deficit increased proline accumulation, likely to allow osmotic adjustment. While extreme water deficit initiated water stress responses in hemp, plants were able to survive and maintain seed production. We report that hemp can survive at exceptionally low levels of soil water availability, which could have far-reaching consequences as agricultural industries pursue innovative, sustainable and water-efficient crops for the future.

So... Yes, it does do something to cannabinoid biosynthesis, but also leads to lower yields. However, the plants are able to take it remarkably well.

 

[little-soldier]

Would you please expand on this? What did your application look like? What do you bone dry, pot dry or wilted plant? Did you try it on purpose or did it just happen due not having been been watered?

dry pots and wiltered plants yes, not on purpose, some plants drink more than others and I water every other day so by the time i water some of them get really dry while others stay damp. and if i knew what my buddy's supposed trick to get tastier buds, i wouldnt be asking you guys.

 

[little-soldier]

Couple of other studies on the subject:

Effects of short-term environmental stresses on the onset of cannabinoid production in young immature flowers of industrial hemp (Cannabis sativa L.)


Severe drought significantly reduces floral hemp (Cannabis sativa L.) yield and cannabinoid content but moderate drought does not (2024)


Physiological and morphological responses of industrial hemp (Cannabis sativa L.) to water deficit (2022)


So... Yes, it does do something to cannabinoid biosynthesis, but also leads to lower yields. However, the plants are able to take it remarkably well.

only time i ever noticed a change in plants was when i over grew them and some of them were almost touching the light. Some of the plants response was, more trichomes and lower yields but taste was pretty much the same.

 

[stadtgaertner]

if i remember correctly terpenes production is a lot higher when growing organic with a wide variety of micro and macronutrients in the soil. there are studies on this topic so doing a little bit of research might be a good option.

from my personal experience as someone that only has done a handful of grows with salts i thought they always lacked in quality but made up for it in yield. but no doubt living soil is one key to the quality i am getting. perfect condition are the other factor. especiall during flower after the stretch it is very beneficial to let your plants run as dry as possible without killing soil life between each watering. this will also give you bigger buds from my experience. and stay low on the temps after the stretch. stay below 72f if possible.

 

[mudballs]

Soil supports more complex secondary metabolites than inert rockwool or hydro and just 3 part nute fertigation