How to bring terps and essential oils out on a strain?

[Rocket Soul]

I've read over 200 studies on rabbit shit, it's accurate on that score.

Accurate ChatGPT answers definitely require understanding logic and variables. Absolutely essential for question formulation. Without it you get nonsense like the word strawberry having only 2 R's in it. Asking how many letter R's produces the correct response of 3.

Could you point me in the direction of the strongest cannabis terp related paper? I really like to read and understand

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Not exactly sure what your desires are, but I start most of my searches with "study paper."

Try "study paper cannabis terpene production" and go from there?

I am terribly unskilled at organizing notes.... so I have zero links to share. I do remember info I'm interested in. lol

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Here’s a list of 30 studies and reviews related to terpene production in cannabis plants:

1. **The Role of Terpenes in Cannabis**: Exploring the biosynthesis and function of terpenes.
2. **Genetic Variability of Terpene Profiles in Cannabis**: A study on how genetics influence terpene production.
3. **Environmental Factors Affecting Terpene Profiles in Cannabis**: Analyzing how light, temperature, and humidity impact terpene synthesis.
4. **Terpene Content in Different Cannabis Strains**: Comparative analysis of terpene profiles across various cultivars.
5. **The Influence of Cultivation Methods on Terpene Production**: Investigating organic versus synthetic growing methods.
6. **The Biosynthetic Pathways of Cannabis Terpenes**: A detailed look at the metabolic pathways involved.
7. **Effects of Harvest Time on Terpene Concentration**: Examining how timing affects terpene levels in cannabis.
8. **Post-Harvest Processing and Terpene Retention**: How drying and curing processes affect terpene profiles.
9. **Terpenes as Chemotactic Agents in Cannabis**: The ecological role of terpenes in plant defense.
10. **Role of Terpenes in the Entourage Effect**: Discussing how terpenes interact with cannabinoids.
11. **Quantitative Analysis of Terpenes in Medical Cannabis**: Research on terpene content in therapeutic strains.
12. **Influence of Nutrients on Terpene Production**: Examining how fertilization affects terpene levels.
13. **Terpene Variation in Cannabis Sativa and Indica**: A comparative study of different cannabis species.
14. **Effects of UV Light on Terpene Synthesis in Cannabis**: Investigating how UV exposure impacts terpene levels.
15. **Microbial Interactions and Terpene Production**: Exploring how microbes affect terpene synthesis in cannabis.
16. **Terpenes and Their Antimicrobial Properties in Cannabis**: Assessing the antimicrobial functions of various terpenes.
17. **Genomic Approaches to Enhance Terpene Production**: Using CRISPR and other techniques to boost terpene synthesis.
18. **Impact of Stressors on Terpene Profiles**: How biotic and abiotic stress influence terpene production.
19. **Terpene Profiles of Cannabis Oil Extracts**: Analyzing terpene composition in different extraction methods.
20. **The Relationship Between Terpenes and Cannabinoid Content**: Understanding the interplay between cannabinoids and terpenes.
21. **The Effect of Different Light Spectra on Terpene Production**: Investigating how LED lighting affects terpene synthesis.
22. **Ethylene's Role in Terpene Production in Cannabis**: Studying the hormonal influences on terpene biosynthesis.
23. **Sustainable Practices and Terpene Yield**: Assessing how organic cultivation impacts terpene levels.
24. **Seasonal Variation in Terpene Profiles of Cannabis**: Research on how different seasons affect terpene content.
25. **Terpene Accumulation in Response to Pest Infestation**: Examining how pests influence terpene levels for defense.
26. **The Role of Terpene Synthases in Cannabis**: A detailed review of the enzymes involved in terpene biosynthesis.
27. **Consumer Preferences for Terpene Profiles in Cannabis**: Understanding market trends and consumer choices.
28. **The Impact of Water Stress on Terpene Production in Cannabis**: Research on how drought conditions affect terpene levels.
29. **Comparative Study of Monoterpenes and Sesquiterpenes in Cannabis**: Analyzing different classes of terpenes.
30. **Terpenoid Engineering in Cannabis**: Advances in biotechnology to enhance terpene production.

These studies span various aspects of terpene production, including genetics, environmental factors, and applications in medicine and industry.

Look up the names of the studies listed, using the 'study paper' prefix.

 

[Rocket Soul]

Thanks ill have a look. Tbh im the same, i read a lot but dont keep track of where i found the study


Though since you said "200 studies on rabbit poo" I was kinda hoping you would point me in the direction of the most relevant stuff on rabbit poo for terpenes. Im interested cause ive found very little on nutrients and terpenes, its generally just peeps online saying organic this or that but without much explantation of the mechanism.

This is just a list of studies on terpenes, nothing on those rabbits. That list is still a nice place to start exploring other stuff re terpenes but if you are arguing a point stating ample evidence its nice to have at least one relevant thing. Ill start with number 12 which seems to be about nutes and terpenes. Thx for the nice list, this is what chat gpt is good at

 

[little-soldier]

You said yourself you did not use enough. The result is you have zero clue what rabbit manure is capable of. Your assesment of your experiment validity is heavily flawed.

It's bulky, I get it. It's why I make a convenient liquid extract of it. Blame it on me if it makes you feel better, I can take it.

your amounts are just out of proportion. nobody in the world grows with 40% of pure manure in their soil mix, its just too much organic matter and no wonder your stuff would taste like rabbit poop after that lol. I get taste improvement after adding less than 5% alpaca, imagine with 40% lol.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Your struggle is real.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

A few tips for anyone wishing to use rabbit manure for terps and cannabinoids.
- You can amend up to 40% manure with neutral soil
- No need to compost unless it's sopping wet with urine
- A 2" topdress mixed in the top layer of soil does wonders
- Fresh has a beneficial bacterial load similar to earthworm castings
- Best used moderately during veg and lightly during flower, due to high nitrogen

The nitrogen, while significant, is not hot. Between that and the high level of trace elements being available, burning is much easier to avoid.

 

[Dropped Cat]

subbed

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

So I went looking for studies specific to rabbit manure and terpenes/essential-oil production... and came up empty as well. lol What I do remember is reading a lot of papers on essential oil production, and coming away with humic substances and trace elements having the greatest effect on production.

Here's what chatgpt barfed up on trace elements and essential oil production:

Trace elements, though required in smaller quantities, can significantly impact essential oil production in plants. Here are some of the most important trace elements:

1. **Zinc (Zn)**: Vital for enzyme function and protein synthesis, zinc influences growth and metabolism, which can enhance essential oil yield and quality.

2. **Manganese (Mn)**: This element plays a key role in photosynthesis and metabolism. It is involved in the activation of various enzymes that can affect oil production.

3. **Copper (Cu)**: Important for photosynthesis, respiration, and the synthesis of certain secondary metabolites, copper can influence essential oil composition.

4. **Iron (Fe)**: Crucial for chlorophyll synthesis and energy transfer, iron is essential for overall plant health, indirectly affecting essential oil yield.

5. **Boron (B)**: This element is involved in cell wall formation and plant reproduction. Adequate boron levels can support healthy growth and contribute to secondary metabolite production, including essential oils.

6. **Molybdenum (Mo)**: While its role is less direct, molybdenum is important for nitrogen metabolism and can influence overall plant health and oil synthesis.

Ensuring an adequate supply of these trace elements can enhance plant growth and essential oil production, highlighting the importance of balanced nutrition in cultivating aromatic plants.

Combining that information with all the studies I read on rabbit manure, I realized the connections. Granted, I read up on all this *after* noticing its effect on my veggies and cannabis.

I believe the complexity of the terpenes is also altered by other variables.

Enzymes are involved with the production of both terpenes and cannabinoids. The interesting bits about enzymes and their effect on terpenes, is their ability to produce different things from the same starter materials. Changes in hydration, pH and temperature will all change the output. In practice, varying hydration/reservoir levels, changing yet always cool temps and a full, healthy pH swing work together to increase terpene and cannabinoid complexity.

Polymerization of terpenes is the chaining up of terpene molecules over time. While most of us are familiar with this process during 'the cure.' The process actuallty begins as soon as terpenes begin being produced. There are a number of monoterpenes which begin vaporizing at 70F, which means they are not available to be chained up in gardens above 70F. This definitely has an impact on end complexity of terpenes.

Organic molecules provide unique frameworks for plants to build terpenes on. One of my goals is to find organic sources which do not bring a 'flavor' with them. Rabbit manure happens to do this rather well. Who remembers the bat shit era of 'organic' cannabis, where every strain had the same bat shit notes to the flavor and odor?

Does that help?

 

[little-soldier]

A few tips for anyone wishing to use rabbit manure for terps and cannabinoids.
- You can amend up to 40% manure with neutral soil
- No need to compost unless it's sopping wet with urine
- A 2" topdress mixed in the top layer of soil does wonders
- Fresh has a beneficial bacterial load similar to earthworm castings
- Best used moderately during veg and lightly during flower, due to high nitrogen

The nitrogen, while significant, is not hot. Between that and the high level of trace elements being available, burning is much easier to avoid.

so whats a lightly use if you need minimum 2 inch to top dress with if you want to add flavor? You are contradicting yourself my friend

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

little-soldier, please have someone notify me when you are able to understand things more easily, and have acquired a wonderful attitude toward life. Until such time, best of luck and welcome to ignore.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

So asking the right question to chatGPT pulled up why a bit of alpaca would benefit terpene and cannabinoid expression. Here's what it pulled up.

Q: how important is carbon in the production of terpenes
(I asked because Alpaca is different in how digested the product is, so while the micro nutrients are lower the carbon present in it is more readily available than other manures. A big bonus.)

Carbon is crucial in the production of terpenes, as these compounds are primarily made up of carbon and hydrogen atoms. Terpenes are built from isoprene units (C5H8), which contain carbon. The biosynthesis of terpenes in plants involves various metabolic pathways, primarily the mevalonate pathway and the methylerythritol phosphate (MEP) pathway, both of which require carbon as a fundamental building block.

In essence, the creation of terpenes depend heavily on the availability and arrangement of carbon atoms. So, without carbon, the production of terpenes wouldn't be possible!

Those of us without readily available alpaca manure can still get significantly more carbon through the use of a bit of activated charcoal (sufficiently pre-charged with nutes).

So another way to increase terp/cannabinoid quantity and complexity (quality), is through making sure there are adequate levels of carbon available. (Edit: lol While I did not ask about alpaca carbon and terpenes, Orange's Greenhouse did point out below that I'd forgotten the carbon comes from CO2 and not the root zone. heh)

Pretty cool stuff.

 

[Orange's Greenhouse]

So another way to increase terp/cannabinoid quantity and complexity (quality), is through making sure there are adequate levels of carbon available.

A fabulous example why ChatGPT is a tool with limited applicability. You for example don't understand plant physiology or biochemistry so can't critically vet the information provided. And if you were able to then what do you need the AI for?

Plants do not take up carbon through the roots. On the opposite they secrete sugars and other organic molecules through the roots. Organic just means that it contains carbon atoms.
All carbon turned into biomass comes from CO2 and photosynthesis. And yeah, without CO2 plants die but no magic fertilizer is doing what you try to achieve.

 

[little-soldier]

little-soldier, please have someone notify me when you are able to understand things more easily, and have acquired a wonderful attitude toward life. Until such time, best of luck and welcome to ignore.

truth hurts but its understandable, you need to work on your ego. see i got you to look into alpaca. Its a good step in the right direction. There is a reason why alpaca is better at providing terps and every plausible explanation is worth considering. Even coming from chatGPT but to be taken with a grain of salt. I will be testing your theory by adding activated charcoal. see im open minded and willing to try new things.

 

[little-soldier]

A fabulous example why ChatGPT is a tool with limited applicability. You for example don't understand plant physiology or biochemistry so can't critically vet the information provided. And if you were able to then what do you need the AI for?

Plants do not take up carbon through the roots. On the opposite they secrete sugars and other organic molecules through the roots. Organic just means that it contains carbon atoms.
All carbon turned into biomass comes from CO2 and photosynthesis. And yeah, without CO2 plants die but no magic fertilizer is doing what you try to achieve.

I disagree with your statement about carbon. look up https://rootedleaf.com/
they made the first and only carbon based nutrients on the market.They have cool informative videos on youtube and instagram too if you really want to get into it. We learn every day and its OK to challenge even our most fundamental beliefs.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

lol Yarrr, the less explicit the question the more useless the output. Your comment reminded me of the same point about carbon coming mainly from CO2. lol

The isoprene info is spot on

 

[Orange's Greenhouse]

I disagree with your statement about carbon. look up https://rootedleaf.com/
they made the first and only carbon based nutrients on the market.They have cool informative videos on youtube and instagram too if you really want to get into it. We learn every day and its OK to challenge even our most fundamental beliefs.

Did you miss the part where this is all ad copy and they provide 0 scientific evidence that carbon is taken up by the roots?

Because there is a wealth of evidence that organic molecules are not absorbed by the roots. They prepared radioactively labeled molecules (carbon 14) and introduced them to the roots. Afterwards the plant had no increase in radioactivity. It is a very sensitive method and the gold standard for such experiments.

 

[Rocket Soul]

I disagree with your statement about carbon. look up https://rootedleaf.com/
they made the first and only carbon based nutrients on the market.They have cool informative videos on youtube and instagram too if you really want to get into it. We learn every day and its OK to challenge even our most fundamental beliefs.

Ive not checked that link but as far as ive understood the carbon in the soil/nutrients is more to support bacteria/funghi and all those tiny beasties; which in turn get used by the plants; plants exude sugars from the roots and get nutes from the beasties in exchange.

If this carbon based nutes actually mean the carbon gets absorbed by roots it would be easy to test: just try to run a carbon based nute grow but sterilize the root zone completely. If it works without live soil then what you say should be possible.

Sorry, i dont wanna seem like im piling onto you and i dont really have a horse in this thing you got going with DC. But i think the discussion here seems to derail things a bit. Surely there is more to be discussed rather than rabbits and alpacas and what chatgpt answers we should listen to? Not trying to offend anyone

Does anyone have around any info on terps andd drought stress? Or any other type of improving terps? And are we talking objective measures or more "it smells better to my nose"?

If i recall correctly the thread was started by you by asking what could be the secret trick of your cali friend. Now it seems like your already know the answer and are just trying to convince us all. Lets get this back to a discussion rather than an pissing contest.

Sorry if my phrasing isnt diplomatic i dont wanna come across as abrasive just wanna discuss this subject that interest me further

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Chitosan, from insect frass or crushed shells, has a number of benefits to plants and one to terpene production. Chitosan is known to trigger a defensive response from plants which can include the production of terpenes. In cannabis, the terpene affected most often is β-caryophyllene.

Insect frass brings nutrients and microbiota along with the chitosan, while crushed shell provides a cleaner (less complex?) form with very little nutrition.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Drought stress

The following phrase brings up a few studies involving terpenes, and a whole lot of studies on drought stress and the effects it has on other aspects of the cannabis plant.

Impact of Water Deficit on the Production of Terpenes in Cannabis sativa

Edit: Here's a good example from that search
Increasing Inflorescence Dry Weight and Cannabinoid Content in Medical Cannabis Using Controlled Drought Stress
This one is interesting and covers various aspects/studies on drought stress and terpene production, along with their own results of increased cannabinoids/terpenes. The page the link takes you to also has links to a number of other studies on the subject.