Hermaphrodite

[Guest]

yep, im still here just soakin it all in. talkin thai seems were still on topic, lol.

kinda stuck on how ya sort out whats not worth keepin in a breedin pool of plants. the true female or male, seems ya would have to stress each and every individual plant in a population ya expect to breed.

when im makin seed, i use as many plants m/f that i can. so when and if ya started gettin a bunch of herm plants, seems it would be hell to try and locate the plant causin the problems. especially if the trait skipped a gen or somethin like that.

another good reason to keep seed batches from previous generations, where ya can go back a few gens if somethin goes bad.

definitly appreciate all the input.

CBF

 

[FOE20]

aloha Tom and damn fine meeting you also.. RC Clack is the man in my book to really..
(ps: Tom I have some DChunk going..very very interesting variety..really weird actually..heheh..super hard nugs, ultra sticky and unusual oder..nice work sir.. )
I agree that the real old skewl farmer wont be beat in any situation but thats cause most(old hard headed farmers) dont conform to the USDA bs that the Gov instills for crop export..
Ive been talking to a few older and quite mental gentz and their biggest concern is how our organic resources are being more polluted and from whats being said at some point "organics" may be more bio-toxic than the synth chems or salt extractions..This is what scares me...
CBF I def respect your view and posts Ive seen around to man..I know you guys both really care about the real scene..so..On that which pheno to keep and not and selection..Since I cany run 100-1000 plants I start only 2-4 or 6 at a time..Then grow them out lookin for the most stable and outstandng..Then I keep it in clone gen for years if needed to make sure it will grow True..The after I free up the room I start another 2-4 and do the same..The only way for the first pheno to get kicked to the side is to be beaten out by another pheno of the same pk or batch..So I do run a nice population but just very slowly..But the ones that can live and show no issues over 3-5yrs I start to consider for true testing or outcrossing/inbreeding..I dont want to use MED club cuts as I want to pick and judge phenos myself based on their past histories..but anyway..
As far as breeding practices go you guys are way above anything I do as far as that goes..I use low populations of the most stable plants I can find..I dont know how that would affect things long term as the breeds I try to use are orig F.1 breeder pks just of older mid 90's, early 2k genetics..But Im not breeding for my glory as Im only breeding to retain the lineage that the breder describes and that really all I can do..Im not making any new fancy shmancy breeds cause I have no way to really stabilize but when its based on great quality gene pools it sure helps allot..
The one big confusion with this topic and I think most ppl get this twisted is Hermies and Feminized late showing Bananas..
I dont get how some ppl see a late nanna at wk 8-9 since the strain is going over its maturation and they freak out and say.."Ibe got a hermi!!"..which its not to me..
So since you guys are "Aces" in this field I have a question or would like a good explination of these and the difference..Not for me but for others just dont get the basis of it..
From what Ive seen Hermis show on Node points up the Main Stalk of a Fem plant durring its grow cycle/phase...Not late in flower..
Also Hermis will have both the flowers and pods(aka- true m/f bannas)..
Now a late nanna on a just over mature plant is normal to me in most cases..Not from stress, def or anything but age..
Hermis show from stress or Reversal..So if you guys could elaborate on this it would be very helpful..Mainly cause when it comes from a great source its usually listened to..Great lil convo either way..Stay cool cause its really gettin hot out there now!!
FOE20

 

[Guest]

hola FOE, i use small populations at a time, 20 plants most times and prolly only look at 20 to 30 per gen, as im still learnin myself, and just observin whats goin on.

all new plants and seedplants im gonna breed, i run in a room that has a small light leak, and it bounces around the mylar. not real bright but enough i would think to see if a plant reacts to it.

been observin plants, that are introduced to my OP for the first time, showin either male balls early on all nodes, or some bananas mid to late flower. when i rerun um, they are clean, no problems????

i dont quite understand the true female/male, are they plants that no matter the conditions there never show a male flower? seems to me, you could make any plant flip with some type of stress.

have a line i been spendin time on over the years, and ive seen a nanner or two, and others have as well. no full blown herms, but late nanners. then theres been lots of others that have had no problems. a few growers have actually came back and said there were problems with there grow.

if you were to take your clones, and grow um outside and they performed with no problems, would you , or could you say that overall the plants are fine? if they pass the outdoor grow, it would seem to me there good to go.

at what point do ya consider a plant not worthy of bein used? a few nanners late, do ya toss it.......jeez i hope not, lol. im just wantin to get the seedline im doin right, as best i can. i dont wanna be blamein the grower when he starts yellin hermie crap plants. hehe

CBF

CBF

 

[guest123]

iat what point do ya consider a plant not worthy of bein used? a few nanners late, do ya toss it.......jeez i hope not, lol. im just wantin to get the seedline im doin right, as best i can. i dont wanna be blamein the grower when he starts yellin hermie crap plants. hehe

CBF

CBF

yes u do toss it ,, if u are intent to breed a strain free from hermies ...
dont breed from hermies , it will come back and bite u on the ass ....

 

[Guest]

yes u do toss it ,, if u are intent to breed a strain free from hermies ...
dont breed from hermies , it will come back and bite u on the ass ....

yeah i know that, and thanks for hangin in the thread wally. its why i use the small leak. to weed um out as thats usually the most common problem in grows.

have some clones from around, and quite a few of those will put out bananas late in the top buds with the leak, bubba, Purple indica, TW, sourDeez, and so on.

you can run um in a clean OP and have no problems. havent run um outdoors. you bein a outdoor grower/breeder, dont get light leaks and such that indoor growers deal with.

i dont know wally, but how do ya weed out herms outside? i dont know your program im just wonderin. would seem if a grower was breedin outdoors, the plants that show male flowers with some type of stress wouldnt show outside. then again outdoors may be more stress full then in

CBF

 

[Guest]

i have a plant i found a few years ago. ive done a few generations based on that plant. just finished growin out a BX to the cut. i grow it everytime in the leak. never a problem with it. ive looked it over many times.

so others have grown it, some still growin it. and one grower seen a nanner, maybe 2 or so in one spot. he said he stressed it, and such while growin it. so now the plant ive dorked around with for years is considered a hermie. and should be eliminated from any type of seedmakin program?

i can take it, just ill prolly break some shit while i throw a tantrum, LOL.

CBF

 

[FOE20]

Theres the difference as I would chuck a "hermi" plant if it showed in veg, bloom onset or mid..But not late nannaers from over maturity..
Ive kept FOEBerry for 11 yrs now I think and the NL#5 for 6 yrs and both have seen good and bad days..Neither one is easy to pop a hermi or nanner..As there was a time when I wanted to feminize or possible s.1..
I tried this shit called Cl-one from a Cali distro and it did reverse the sex but not to the point of Hermi flowers/pods...It only produced the Feminized nannas cause I feel the plants are quite strong females by now being their ages and constant enviro..FBerry is also kinda steril as it takes a blast of polly and I still only may pull so many beans..
Cedarberry I wish I had room for even that sized a population but even then I find right about 20-40 plants is my own limit..After that I really loose some from just not being able to keep up any more..
But when I did a lil OD with some friends its really low control and natures workin..This hydro/DWC crap does get old sometimes indeed..
FOE20

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

I'm sorry... But I think it is absolutely crazy to think that every plant that is to ever be a part of a breeding program must be subjected to all manner of unnatural stresses which could not possibly be encountered in nature, and if it can be made to show any part of a flower of the opposite sex, then must be stricken from the gene pool...

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

yes u do toss it ,, if u are intent to breed a strain free from hermies ...
dont breed from hermies , it will come back and bite u on the ass ....

All plants that can be made to reverse under stress are NOT hermies!!

but I do agree... plants that are chromosomally hermie should never be bred with...

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Grat3fulh3ad,
Don't you think that if you can stress a plant to change the sex it must have genes for intersex? I do.
I do not think that plants that can not be stressed to change sex have intersexed genes, even if they do transform with STS.
BTW, I have found a few plants that will not change even with STS, not sure what that means yet.
These questions will maybe be answered when researchers find DNA markers for intersexed plants, like they have for males and females.
Then you COULD just test a new clone and see what it has.
-SamS

 

[tiedye420]

The thai I grew out was landrace thai. It was in the early 80's.
There were two strains we got over here then, the buddah thai, and this gold thai.. It was (the gold) "dealers choice" and an indica variety from the high mountain monestarys....
The indica was crop ripped as it was in veg, and buddah was allowed to mature in a greenhouse.. The buddah thai had a 60% ratio of hermaphrodites- or intersexed plants.... two out of three, went full on male on most of the growth tips.
This is what i would consider to be extreme intersexing, which is likely to ruin a crop... If it weren't dec. when they show male outdoors...
SSH is also far from a true thai line isnt it dalahempy?

hiya wally is it possible the sat line that did show hermi traits after it was sexet as a fem and in flower had a little indica intruducet into its line some were down the track becouse i have never seen a pure sat show nannas once sexet as a fem and in flower.

Tiedye if your not finding true fems in the thia seed throw them if you have thia seeds sexing as females and in flower go herm they have indica in them and if they came from cannada ods are a large % indica at that visionthia is far from a pure thia line.

 

[tiedye420]

YES sam that the way i feel as well...
If they stress to hermie then the gene was hidden..
It just makes sense on a scientific level.
I may take the pepsi challenge..
My reversed male has been used to fix a few things in my garden...
I'm contemplating using him on everything in the garden.
Only onle male, reversed to the point of making his own seed...
And so far I have SD, SourXstinky, And stinky G-13xcrack under pressure....
All at around a five to one ratio....
I'm collecting the seeds from the NLxkush which didnt crack- (but produced a good amount of "ugly betty" stock for me)...from now until late july.
And there was a SD in there, with one lower male sterile branch.
So a SourxG-sel which has a high femm ratio will be up for the pepsi challenge by summers end. And the stinkyxGXG BX will be ready then also....
I Have a strain called margerita which was made wit a reversed male 3 years or so ago.. I'm running her through the test this year.. Four for four are female from this "sample".
Margerita is like for monks or something.. One of those which a couple bowls has you staring into the deep inner resesses of your mind for a couple hours, before you snap out of it..I hope the offspring are like the mother margerita was..
I could use a deep space medicine myself....
I had so many problems with the mother indoors I put her aside..
Outdoors the mom was fine- she just didn't like indoor stresses....

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

Grat3fulh3ad,
Don't you think that if you can stress a plant to change the sex it must have genes for intersex? I do.
I do not think that plants that can not be stressed to change sex have intersexed genes, even if they do transform with STS.
BTW, I have found a few plants that will not change even with STS, not sure what that means yet.
These questions will maybe be answered when researchers find DNA markers for intersexed plants, like they have for males and females.
Then you COULD just test a new clone and see what it has.
-SamS

Sam,
I do think that is the case with some, but I also think there are cases where the production of a few male flowers on a female plant are not at all due to the XY situation. It is a genetic situation, but only one that allows hormone production under stress, and can be completely unrelated to the XY situation.

This is also a good explanation for the plants you have found which will not reverse even under the extreme stress of STS. Since there is an ability to produce extra hormones under stress, would there not also be the potential for a genetic combination which completely excludes the same sort of hormone production reaction?

I really hope for a time when the proper resources can be devoted to research about the species, and look forward to having alot of these questions definitively answered. I think that for the most part, I expect a couple different categories of 'inter-sexed plants' plants to be found. Ones which have an XXY or similar situation with the sex chromosomes, and ones which have some other genetic factor which turns on the production of certain hormones under specific stimuli.

 

[guest123]

yes grateful ,,i think a plant that will change sex is a hermie ,, is is predisposed to do that when stressed ... there are many plants that no matter how much u stress them they will not do that ...
if it throws a few nanas ,, any signs of 2 sexes on one plant , is a hermie ... a horse is always a horse ...

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

yes grateful ,,i think a plant that will change sex is a hermie ,, is is predisposed to do that when stressed ... there are many plants that no matter how much u stress them they will not do that ...
if it throws a few nanas ,, any signs of 2 sexes on one plant , is a hermie ... a horse is always a horse ...

then 98% of cannabis plants are hermies... :wink: and you can only breed with the few ones like Sam has found that won't reverse, even under STS...
Sorry, but someone has to show me how STS stress is any different from any other stress....

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

Thing is, STS stress is really just simply silver stress. It has been shown that ionic silver has the same effect as silver thiosulfate, so it's the silver that is doing work. If it were a case of causing a reversal by direct application of a plant sex hormone, and only application of said hormone could cause the reversal, then I would agree 100% that the plant in question was not reversed by a stress. But to try and compare something like that, to overloading a plant's environment with an ionic metal causing enough stress to trigger hormone production which causes the reversal... and at the same time say that silver stress is some unique exception to the 'horse is a horse' rule concerning stress reversals, Makes absolutely no sense to me. If I am in any way wrong about the silver issue... please show me what makes it different, so that it becomes the exception.

 

[Dalaihempy]

The thai I grew out was landrace thai. It was in the early 80's.
There were two strains we got over here then, the buddah thai, and this gold thai.. It was (the gold) "dealers choice" and an indica variety from the high mountain monestarys....
The indica was crop ripped as it was in veg, and buddah was allowed to mature in a greenhouse.. The buddah thai had a 60% ratio of hermaphrodites- or intersexed plants.... two out of three, went full on male on most of the growth tips.
This is what i would consider to be extreme intersexing, which is likely to ruin a crop... If it weren't dec. when they show male outdoors...
SSH is also far from a true thai line isnt it dalahempy?

Hiya tiedye well thia was also called budda often thia sticks or budda sticks were the main names used still was basicly thia mj , I had never seen or heard of a thialand indica i do know there are tempret zones with in thiland but as for thia indica lines never heard of such a animal.

I know you got diffrent thia sativas lowland sativas and highland sativas i belive what you americans call chock thia infact was a high land thia.

As for hermies il say it agine i have never seen a pure sativa go hermie on me ever once it was sexet to be a female and all the way threw flower they stayed female.

Hermies would show as the plants would sex you would cull the hermies and the males now if you wanted to make seed you would leve the male or best male .

Im not posting here to piss any one off or to make waves or to even make people think im some type of expert what im posting are my own growing experrences and observations period.

The first time i ever saw a line of cannabis infact show hermie traits after it was sexet as a true female and well into flowering was a duch line.



Tiedye

SSH is also far from a true thai line isnt it dalahempy?

SSH is a haze hybreed tiedye it has a small part of thia in her make from the haze side .

You know what tiedye i was going to bite but you have the answear to the question you explane it to me so we can all read it.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

but as for thia indica lines never heard of such a animal.

As for hermies il say it agine i have never seen a pure sativa go hermie on me ever once it was sexet to be a female and all the way threw flower they stayed female.

Hermies would show as the plants would sex you would cull the hermies and the males now if you wanted to make seed you would leve the male or best male .

Tiedye

I never saw Indicas in Thailand and I lived and traveled there for years.

As for hermis they can show early at sexing, they can show mid flowering, they can show late in flowering, they can show at the very end of flowering. They can have a few male flowers, they can have whole branches male, they can have most of the plant turn male, they can have male and female together or on separate locations. All of the above are intersexed, just to differing degrees, and differing expression. I would say that easily 3/4 or more of the Thai seeds I imported and grew were intersexed, and I have grown thousands, and thousands. And most did not show intersex at sexing.

-SamS

 

[Guest]

whats bein said is quite a bit different then what ive thought all along. i was under the impression that any female cannabis plant would show male flowers under different types of stress, and that it was a survival gene.

if the plant ran clean under good conditions it was a good plant, if it showed any type of male flower under stress conditions, that was normal a nanner or two when stressed it was a strong plant, and if it had a load of um then it was a bad plant. so obviously im off the mark.

so if a grower reports a herm plant from a batch of seed, really no sense in askin what his growin conditions were, as its not a well bred line to start with if your gettin any kinda male flower in any type of enviorment.

man theres a shit load of poorly bred lines floatin around,lol

seed i been makin has been a learnin experience for me, just seein whats happenin. at this point its right back to the beginnin for me. i completely understand now the importance of lookin at lots of plants, to find excellent parent plants, not just halfassed plants.

ive always said any caveman can make seed, makin somethin outta the cross is where the breedin comes in. the points made here completely change my thinkin anyway on what is a well bred line and what isnt.

i dont know about others, but the points made here are huge imo, changin everything for me

CBF

 

[exactlywatt]

From page one:

Strawberry Diesel is great fucking weed and one stray nanner doesn't do a thing to change that.