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Tom,
I am talking about the hand of man not evolution. We can effect the hand of man, but as for evolution, that is beyond my control.
Why do you think that Thai has so many hermis? Is it not from years and years of sinsi production? I will answer your other question but it will take time to answer completely.
-SamS
I am talking about the hand of man not evolution. We can effect the hand of man, but as for evolution, that is beyond my control.
Why do you think that Thai has so many hermis? Is it not from years and years of sinsi production? I will answer your other question but it will take time to answer completely.
-SamS
Im sorry to hear about your friend´s crop Northern Farmer 
However, I think people should first observe & experiment are their hermies sterile before putting them with other 400 plants intented to produce sinsemilla. If you friend was after commercial crop without seeds and did know that his PK had hermitrait -> why did he risk the whole thing with couple PK plants?
Is somebody with me with this theory?
However, I think people should first observe & experiment are their hermies sterile before putting them with other 400 plants intented to produce sinsemilla. If you friend was after commercial crop without seeds and did know that his PK had hermitrait -> why did he risk the whole thing with couple PK plants?
I am not a breeder, but I think that any of us would choose "true female" if the plants are same quality.Sam_Skunkman said:
I think there is a whole lot of true behind this suggestion, but it doesnt explain all.Sam_Skunkman said:
But something to thing for is why is it, that many thai´s, vietnamese´s, zamal´s etc. have hermie/intersex trait´s? Is it because the poor selection of a man that continued hundreds of years, or has it something to do with their geographical location. I cannot believe that other traditional cannabis growing regions had better knowledge considering intersex plants/hermies than example thai´s had. + It seems, that these "traditionally" intersex strains are usually sativa´s, not indica´s, so I really think that the environment/geographical location/cultivar subspecie has a lot to do with the intersex trait!Sam_Skunkman said:
Is somebody with me with this theory?
Farmer John said:Well, our OHxSk#1 throws nanners if we do something that it doesnt like but it doesnt always do it, and that pollen is very viable, its just so damn good that its no problem to pick those nanners off the buds and so what if it has a few seeds if it is more potent than anything else i nthe garden.
My Original Haze x SK#1 cutting does the same, but some of the pollen is viable and some not. However, I agree with you that it´s too good to be throwed away because of this -> it´s just so good & tasty strain.
Sam, I really can't understand how you can possibly claim to know that 'intersexed plants' are a result of man's interference instead of nature. There is absolutely no way this could be known, It is your theory. It is a good and workable theory which makes sense, but is absolutely unprovable. Corn, I could see you making such statements about... but to try to say that you know which aspects of the cannabis genetic are natural, and which were instilled by poor ancient breeding programs, is quite a bit of a stretch.
yet the only evidence you offer, is that you imagine how the early canna farmers did their breeding.... Could you offer any other sort of evidence, other than assuming ancient man's breeding practices? I would also love a better explanation why Chemically stressing a plant into producing hormones which make it grow intersexed flowers, is any different then stressing a plant into prodicing the hormones which cause it to grow intersexed flowers by another method. I understand how it appears different on the surface, but would you please explain the major differences in the biological process?
Also, let it be known, that I don't necessarily disagree with anything at all that you've said... I really do mostly just wonder how you can make such statements with such assuredness... And wish to further my understanding of the subject...
Elsewhere you maintain that potent drug cannabis is not natural, but bred by the hand of man. Now you maintain that any sort of intersexed traits are not natural, but also bred by the hand of man. And tons of anecdotal evidence show the intersexed nature of a high percentage of 'elite clones' which are kept and shared for decades.
If you are correct and man simultaneously worked potency and intersexuality into the species, it would explain the percieved linkage, and it would define fixing the problem as removing the one trait while maintaining all of the other traits.
Seems to me that alot of lab work would be required as a precursor to really undertaking such a project... since even botanist disagree on the precise mechanisms by which sex is inherited in cannabis... And genes which allow the production of hormones would have to be considered in addition to the XY chromosome factor, to truly remove all the sensitivities from the line...
Elsewhere you maintain that potent drug cannabis is not natural, but bred by the hand of man. Now you maintain that any sort of intersexed traits are not natural, but also bred by the hand of man. And tons of anecdotal evidence show the intersexed nature of a high percentage of 'elite clones' which are kept and shared for decades.
If you are correct and man simultaneously worked potency and intersexuality into the species, it would explain the percieved linkage, and it would define fixing the problem as removing the one trait while maintaining all of the other traits.
Seems to me that alot of lab work would be required as a precursor to really undertaking such a project... since even botanist disagree on the precise mechanisms by which sex is inherited in cannabis... And genes which allow the production of hormones would have to be considered in addition to the XY chromosome factor, to truly remove all the sensitivities from the line...
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D
Dalaihempy
Sam can i ask a question ?.
Why is it that thia lines or sativas that do show plants at the onset of sex to be hermies in the same line you get 3 genders Male / Female / Hermie then once you cull the hermie and male the female will flower and be harvested seedles .
As i had never seen a sativa go hermie once sexet and in flower.
FOUND THIS Gender in Plants
2. More About Why and How Plants Change Sex
http://www.ias.ac.in/resonance/Nov1998/pdf/Nov1998p30-39.pdf
Just a sample
Recent studies have shown, however, that many hermaphrodite
plants do not contribute genes equally through male and female
function to the next generation. Individual plants range from
being relatively more or less male to relatively more or less
female. This finding coupled with the modular and indeterminate
nature of plant growth and reproduction led to the important
perspective that sex expression in plants is a quantitative
phenomenon, i.e. it depends on the relative proportion of
reproductive units of both sexes within an individual plant.
From this point of view, the term plant sex denotes the various
mating systems of plants such as monoecy or androdioecy while
the term plant gender refers to the relative representation of
male and female function in the entire plant. The phenotypic
gender of a plant then signifies the relative proportions of male
and female reproductive units in terms of flowers, pollen or
ovules at any given time on the plant (see Box 1). The functional
gender of a plant is its relative contribution to the next generation
via the male and female functions in terms of how many offspring
it has sired or how many seeds it has matured.
http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1469-8137.2005.01281.x
Summary
• A triploid intersex individual of the normally dioecious species Rumex acetosa showed extreme variability in gynoecium development. Analysis of the development and distribution of these flowers on inflorescences enabled insight to be gained into the mechanism of sex determination.
• Floral phenotypes on intersex inflorescences were classified according to gynoecium development. Flower morphology was investigated by scanning electron and light microscopy. Organ identity gene expression in intersex floral primordia was assessed using in situ hybridization.
• The distribution of the different floral phenotypes shows that each individual flower is determined separately, and that the phenotype of each flower is not influenced by its position on the inflorescence, or by the phenotype of neighbouring flowers. C-function gene expression persisted in gynoecia that had ceased development.
• Gynoecium development in mutant flowers resembled the phenotype of the Arabidopsis mutant ettin and suggests that a hormone gradient may be involved. C-function expression does not appear to control the extent of female development, and indicates that genes which are downstream of the organ-identity genes must control organ suppression.
Why is it that thia lines or sativas that do show plants at the onset of sex to be hermies in the same line you get 3 genders Male / Female / Hermie then once you cull the hermie and male the female will flower and be harvested seedles .
As i had never seen a sativa go hermie once sexet and in flower.
FOUND THIS Gender in Plants
2. More About Why and How Plants Change Sex
http://www.ias.ac.in/resonance/Nov1998/pdf/Nov1998p30-39.pdf
Just a sample
Recent studies have shown, however, that many hermaphrodite
plants do not contribute genes equally through male and female
function to the next generation. Individual plants range from
being relatively more or less male to relatively more or less
female. This finding coupled with the modular and indeterminate
nature of plant growth and reproduction led to the important
perspective that sex expression in plants is a quantitative
phenomenon, i.e. it depends on the relative proportion of
reproductive units of both sexes within an individual plant.
From this point of view, the term plant sex denotes the various
mating systems of plants such as monoecy or androdioecy while
the term plant gender refers to the relative representation of
male and female function in the entire plant. The phenotypic
gender of a plant then signifies the relative proportions of male
and female reproductive units in terms of flowers, pollen or
ovules at any given time on the plant (see Box 1). The functional
gender of a plant is its relative contribution to the next generation
via the male and female functions in terms of how many offspring
it has sired or how many seeds it has matured.
http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1469-8137.2005.01281.x
Summary
• A triploid intersex individual of the normally dioecious species Rumex acetosa showed extreme variability in gynoecium development. Analysis of the development and distribution of these flowers on inflorescences enabled insight to be gained into the mechanism of sex determination.
• Floral phenotypes on intersex inflorescences were classified according to gynoecium development. Flower morphology was investigated by scanning electron and light microscopy. Organ identity gene expression in intersex floral primordia was assessed using in situ hybridization.
• The distribution of the different floral phenotypes shows that each individual flower is determined separately, and that the phenotype of each flower is not influenced by its position on the inflorescence, or by the phenotype of neighbouring flowers. C-function gene expression persisted in gynoecia that had ceased development.
• Gynoecium development in mutant flowers resembled the phenotype of the Arabidopsis mutant ettin and suggests that a hormone gradient may be involved. C-function expression does not appear to control the extent of female development, and indicates that genes which are downstream of the organ-identity genes must control organ suppression.
Grat3fulh3ad,
First of all I have observed higher rates of hermi plants from populations where the local farmers have a tradition of growing sinsi crops, in many countries. I have seen this first hand and am sure it is not just a coincidence. I have also see higher rates of hermis from poorly bred crops like from Africa where they are not growing sinsi.
Do you deny that if a farmer is trying to grow sinsi and has destroyed all the males, his crop if any seeds are found are most likely from a few hermi flowers unfound on the female plants? And if these seeds are used then the rate of hermis will increase?
Do you deny that hundreds of years of this type of cultivation will lead to a higher percentage of hermi genes in the genepool?
I also have found that intersexed plants are found in a very very low rate in populations that are wild or have grown without the help of man for many years.
I do admit this is just theory, just like when I said that terpenoids contribute in a significant way to the subjective effects of Cannabis 25 years ago and no one believed me. Now I have proven that the Terpenoid theory is correct, 25 years later and after many many tests with THC with and without the terpenoids. And now the world believes me.
I could also prove the Thai hermi theory is correct, but to be honest I don't feel the need, I am convinced. Maybe it is up to you to prove it is not correct if you don't believe it? I am happy to have others challenge my ideas, but unless they come up with a very logical different theory I am unlikely to change my ideas. I have spent the last 35 years studying Cannabis and am very used to people not agreeing with my ideas, until they are ready to.
The inheritance of sex in Cannabis is almost understood now, in a few years all will be known. Cannabis will be found to be classical XY with modifications from intersexed or maybe hormones that effect expression of the XY.
PS Cannabis clones have only been kept for about 30 years at most.
-SamS
First of all I have observed higher rates of hermi plants from populations where the local farmers have a tradition of growing sinsi crops, in many countries. I have seen this first hand and am sure it is not just a coincidence. I have also see higher rates of hermis from poorly bred crops like from Africa where they are not growing sinsi.
Do you deny that if a farmer is trying to grow sinsi and has destroyed all the males, his crop if any seeds are found are most likely from a few hermi flowers unfound on the female plants? And if these seeds are used then the rate of hermis will increase?
Do you deny that hundreds of years of this type of cultivation will lead to a higher percentage of hermi genes in the genepool?
I also have found that intersexed plants are found in a very very low rate in populations that are wild or have grown without the help of man for many years.
I do admit this is just theory, just like when I said that terpenoids contribute in a significant way to the subjective effects of Cannabis 25 years ago and no one believed me. Now I have proven that the Terpenoid theory is correct, 25 years later and after many many tests with THC with and without the terpenoids. And now the world believes me.
I could also prove the Thai hermi theory is correct, but to be honest I don't feel the need, I am convinced. Maybe it is up to you to prove it is not correct if you don't believe it? I am happy to have others challenge my ideas, but unless they come up with a very logical different theory I am unlikely to change my ideas. I have spent the last 35 years studying Cannabis and am very used to people not agreeing with my ideas, until they are ready to.
The inheritance of sex in Cannabis is almost understood now, in a few years all will be known. Cannabis will be found to be classical XY with modifications from intersexed or maybe hormones that effect expression of the XY.
PS Cannabis clones have only been kept for about 30 years at most.
-SamS
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BTW,
Anyone that thinks that hermi plants are all potent just needs to work with French hemp. It is monecious, all the plants are intersexed and they are not potent at all.
Intersexed plants should be removed and not used for breeding of drug Cannabis.
The choice is simple, you can be part of the problem or part of the solution. I say do not breed with hermi plants, you can decide what is best. Not what is easiest.
-SamS
Anyone that thinks that hermi plants are all potent just needs to work with French hemp. It is monecious, all the plants are intersexed and they are not potent at all.
Intersexed plants should be removed and not used for breeding of drug Cannabis.
The choice is simple, you can be part of the problem or part of the solution. I say do not breed with hermi plants, you can decide what is best. Not what is easiest.
-SamS
circadian clock
Active member
what about someone elses hand pollinating sinse crops, the wind blows and bees buzz? thanks for all the help. edit: wouldn't it be impossible to get a true female since they have male dna inside them?
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G
Guest
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When i was younger (early 90's) i grew out 100's of hemp seeds from haith's in uk which source there seeds in south china (i asked them) and every single plant was intersexed,thay were all extreamly early flowering ,starting around late june/beg of july and harvested them mid/late augest and there breed like this so thay all mature at the same time so can be harvested in 1 go,like corn/wheat does.
I didn't know anything about growing cannabis back then and thought it was normal for cannabis to self-pollenate,until i bought a few grow guides and did some research.
I didn't know anything about growing cannabis back then and thought it was normal for cannabis to self-pollenate,until i bought a few grow guides and did some research.
Sam,
First off, I am really enjoying the dialogue with you, and In principle do not really disagree with you... just have a slightly different perspective, and was making sure that I understand as much as I can as well as I can.
I assumed that your position would be based on observation. You treat this as though I am trying to argue against your point, which I am not trying to do. I am asking questions that are integral to the issue, and need to be considered in this discussion. Of course It would be stupid of me to deny that seeds produced by a farmer who has killed all the males, would come from reversed females. That's fairly obvious. Of course the farmers who only get their seed from a sensi crop would be fixing that trait into the population. I'm not trying to deny that hundreds of years of doing that will lead to more inter-sexed plants in a population. I'm not trying to argue that at all.
You do blow your own point out of the water a bit, however, mentioning the fact that hermis also pop up with remarkable frequency among the traditionally non-sensi African crops.
Also you say you do find inter-sexed plants in wild populations, just not as many.
I can see how you could prove the chemical reactions theory, no problems as actual lab test can be done to show it... but you say there is no need to prove your thai theory correct. Because there is no way to prove it correct? I have mucho respect for you, Sam... and I really hope you don't think I am trying to be confrontational or anything, but the only way to learn is to question...
I find it a bit amusing, however, to read
I only take exception with the statement you made, that plants which can made to reverse should never be bred with. I agree that the vast majority of inter-sexed plants should be culled from the gene pool, but I also maintain that there are exceptions to your 'rule' just like every other rule out there....
PS. I know that cannabis clones have only been kept for about 30 years. 30 years equal 3 decades, right? 20 years is two decades, right? So, exactly like I said 'elites kept for decades' is correct.
First off, I am really enjoying the dialogue with you, and In principle do not really disagree with you... just have a slightly different perspective, and was making sure that I understand as much as I can as well as I can.
I assumed that your position would be based on observation. You treat this as though I am trying to argue against your point, which I am not trying to do. I am asking questions that are integral to the issue, and need to be considered in this discussion. Of course It would be stupid of me to deny that seeds produced by a farmer who has killed all the males, would come from reversed females. That's fairly obvious. Of course the farmers who only get their seed from a sensi crop would be fixing that trait into the population. I'm not trying to deny that hundreds of years of doing that will lead to more inter-sexed plants in a population. I'm not trying to argue that at all.
You do blow your own point out of the water a bit, however, mentioning the fact that hermis also pop up with remarkable frequency among the traditionally non-sensi African crops.
Also you say you do find inter-sexed plants in wild populations, just not as many.
I can see how you could prove the chemical reactions theory, no problems as actual lab test can be done to show it... but you say there is no need to prove your thai theory correct. Because there is no way to prove it correct? I have mucho respect for you, Sam... and I really hope you don't think I am trying to be confrontational or anything, but the only way to learn is to question...
I find it a bit amusing, however, to read
That has been something I have wanted to discuss, that hormone production can easily turn a plant which is chromosomally pure XY into an inter-sexed plant.
I only take exception with the statement you made, that plants which can made to reverse should never be bred with. I agree that the vast majority of inter-sexed plants should be culled from the gene pool, but I also maintain that there are exceptions to your 'rule' just like every other rule out there....
PS. I know that cannabis clones have only been kept for about 30 years. 30 years equal 3 decades, right? 20 years is two decades, right? So, exactly like I said 'elites kept for decades' is correct.
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No-one ever implied that hermies had to be potent, or that potent plants had to be hermie. You must have misread me if you got that impression.Sam_Skunkman said:
I also say don't breed with hermie plants! (and have never said different)
I just say that all plants that are reversable are not chromosomally hermies.
It has nothing to do with what's easiest... I am discussing very valid points, not looking for a shortcut, and trying to end the discussion by implying that I am being part of the problem, instead of discussing the issues, is a distraction from the discussion, and not what I do.
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G
guest123
i think sam is just saying that just cause some of the lines around now days are potent , and also intersexed dont mean u should breed with them .. is same as what i said earlier , just better put ..
i would not allow intersexed plants to be bred with and offer them to others , its just irresponsible .... its how we got in the mess in the first place ...
ive seen many plants grow and never show a sign of hermie , by themselves ,, stressed as u like , no hermie , theyre the ones to keep...
i would not allow intersexed plants to be bred with and offer them to others , its just irresponsible .... its how we got in the mess in the first place ...
ive seen many plants grow and never show a sign of hermie , by themselves ,, stressed as u like , no hermie , theyre the ones to keep...
Is this all you're trying to say Sam? Because I've never disagreed with that... I'm just saying that you shouldn't rule a super-potent plant out simply because it makes a male flower under certain stresses.wallyduck said:
Please send me seeds that won't reverse under stress... I'd really like to test that statement out... Anyone... If I find a plant potent enough to be added to my keeper list, and can't stress it into showing a male flower, I'll never say another word on the topic.
Like I've said over and over and over and no-one seems to get... I'm not advocating breeding with hermies!
Everyone clear? I'm not advocating selecting hermie plants!
In fact, I always select away from the trait! Even is my project began with a reversable plant, subsequent genetations can be selected to eliminate the negatives and keep the positives. To trash a super potent plant, because of one trait you don't like... instead of doing the work of preserving the best while eliminating or limiting the negative, is imho at least as irresponsible as any other breeding error.
Every plant which can be made to reverse is not a hermie.
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Summary of my position:
A plant can be so inter-sexed that no amount of potency/flavor/production makes it worth breeding with. However, a plant can be so Ideal/Unique/Potent that reversing under more extreme conditions does not negate it's value as a parent.
A plant can be so inter-sexed that no amount of potency/flavor/production makes it worth breeding with. However, a plant can be so Ideal/Unique/Potent that reversing under more extreme conditions does not negate it's value as a parent.
For my part, I am mostly musing here. I haven't knowingly bred to many intersexed plants, Haze (male pollen mix) probably being the one exception. Though I do admit that I've made decisions with my pipe more so than with my eyes.
All of this theorizing is very interesting & informative but let's try to retire to some facts for a moment. As far as where all of these intersexed plants came from in todays drug gene pool I can name that tune in one note Chuck- Holland- that's where. This is no doubt where 99% of todays closet growers got their seeds from originally. I have grown out fairly broad snapshots of these genetics on more than one occasion & I can say without a doubt that they were riddled with the Clan Lola as of 1995. With the exception of a Haze line, none exhibited a high enough overall worth to look past this & continue working with them (opinion) & like a good lil boy, I shitcanned them all. So, feel free to mark me down as trying to be part of the solution.
About Joe Blow growing out the few seeds he found in his closet grow year after year- The vast majority of the time of course this type of seed line is probably best flushed down the toilet. However, it also seems that occasionally all of this bottlenecking through selfing spits out some true gems seemingly fixed in their more valuable traits. This is rare indeed & I'm having a difficult time understanding why it should not be of great value to the breeder. Yes, Joe could have gotten there via avenues that didn't include intersexed plants, but he didn't. Short of turning back time & influencing this mans tactics, where should we go from here? Like Clarke said, "we're stuck with what we got". Do folks feel that these plants should be removed from the gene pool? It would seem to me a hell of a lot to throw away & I don't believe (as of yet) I've seen a reasonable argument to do so.
Sam,
I am very much looking forward to hearing how effective you have been in breeding intersexed traits out of a given population (second hand knowledge would certainly be appreciated as well). It would be relevant here & extremely valuable info to us all. & by the way, I have a great deal of respect for you & your theories. I hope nobody here doubts that your opinions stem from a very strong judo in the way of cannabis & a deep sense of responsibility as a steward of the plant. As far as the breeding ethics of it goes, I am here to learn. But, & I hope you'd agree, any "absolutes" that folks throw down regarding a collective course of action should be intensely scrutinized. Care to help with that?
Many Thanks,
Tom
All of this theorizing is very interesting & informative but let's try to retire to some facts for a moment. As far as where all of these intersexed plants came from in todays drug gene pool I can name that tune in one note Chuck- Holland- that's where. This is no doubt where 99% of todays closet growers got their seeds from originally. I have grown out fairly broad snapshots of these genetics on more than one occasion & I can say without a doubt that they were riddled with the Clan Lola as of 1995. With the exception of a Haze line, none exhibited a high enough overall worth to look past this & continue working with them (opinion) & like a good lil boy, I shitcanned them all. So, feel free to mark me down as trying to be part of the solution.
About Joe Blow growing out the few seeds he found in his closet grow year after year- The vast majority of the time of course this type of seed line is probably best flushed down the toilet. However, it also seems that occasionally all of this bottlenecking through selfing spits out some true gems seemingly fixed in their more valuable traits. This is rare indeed & I'm having a difficult time understanding why it should not be of great value to the breeder. Yes, Joe could have gotten there via avenues that didn't include intersexed plants, but he didn't. Short of turning back time & influencing this mans tactics, where should we go from here? Like Clarke said, "we're stuck with what we got". Do folks feel that these plants should be removed from the gene pool? It would seem to me a hell of a lot to throw away & I don't believe (as of yet) I've seen a reasonable argument to do so.
Sam,
I am very much looking forward to hearing how effective you have been in breeding intersexed traits out of a given population (second hand knowledge would certainly be appreciated as well). It would be relevant here & extremely valuable info to us all. & by the way, I have a great deal of respect for you & your theories. I hope nobody here doubts that your opinions stem from a very strong judo in the way of cannabis & a deep sense of responsibility as a steward of the plant. As far as the breeding ethics of it goes, I am here to learn. But, & I hope you'd agree, any "absolutes" that folks throw down regarding a collective course of action should be intensely scrutinized. Care to help with that?
Many Thanks,
Tom
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In reference to the discussion on page 6...
Something that I realized and learned in the late 70's was that thai does have a tendecy to hermie, and this seems to be due to survival instinct.
It is the nature of cannabis to pollenate itself if the male specimens get removed from the garden...
As it was known in the 70's- the thai people remove thier males from the garden and have been doing so for centuries. The female plants have a high ratio of heraphrodism as a result..
I believe the process of mans selection to be mostly responsible for these extremely potent strains....also knowledge handed down from village elders to the children..
An eight year old child from a cannbis producing village knows more about the process of selection for breeding than most hobby growers today...
So much for the "internet information age".
So yes we can all be both right and wrong here.. L.O.L. (hi sam!)
In my opinion it is only through hermies, can we remove hermies...
And there are varying degrees of hermism...
I dont like the random or "full on" hermies anymore... I remeove them like a plauge..
But because Keep males around and such, sometimes I'll run across one which reverses on me.
YES a reversed male can be used to remopve the direct trait of hermaphrodism..
But still a hidden survival trait underlies, use an autoflowering male or an early flowering male and the trait may be re-inforced and brought back...
I am into growing for the experience, the experiment..
I hate to experiment by myself.. This is why I come here, to learn and grow and share... Both myself and my grow benifit from this...
This is one of the few threads I have found where I can truly share my findings...
I for one am not scared of a hermie... But this year i'm running a diverse grow with 24 strains.. I have them all oudoors where it wont be so bad if there are some, the plants are in daylight with no leaks (L.O.L>no nightlights either) and will be less likely to produce hermies....
But ya better believe if any get spotted they get yanked immediatly...
I plan to do most my trimming outdoor this year, and will be spending a lot of time looking for them proverbial "sacks".
It's uncanny though, how many times I have walked into the growroom and spotted a hermie from 10 foot across the room..
I generally catch them just in time...
It's getting to be insinct after 30+ years of growing out landrace...
As long as there is landrace cannabis there will be hermies..
AS long as man continues to select for females of the species, some of these subjects will tend to have a survival instinct....
I think it could be bred out..
But subdued/hidden with a 70 to 90 percent female ratio is all I can verify...
My g-13 reversed male is making seeds on himself now...
God only knows what those beans will do.
tie
Something that I realized and learned in the late 70's was that thai does have a tendecy to hermie, and this seems to be due to survival instinct.
It is the nature of cannabis to pollenate itself if the male specimens get removed from the garden...
As it was known in the 70's- the thai people remove thier males from the garden and have been doing so for centuries. The female plants have a high ratio of heraphrodism as a result..
I believe the process of mans selection to be mostly responsible for these extremely potent strains....also knowledge handed down from village elders to the children..
An eight year old child from a cannbis producing village knows more about the process of selection for breeding than most hobby growers today...
So much for the "internet information age".
So yes we can all be both right and wrong here.. L.O.L. (hi sam!)
In my opinion it is only through hermies, can we remove hermies...
And there are varying degrees of hermism...
I dont like the random or "full on" hermies anymore... I remeove them like a plauge..
But because Keep males around and such, sometimes I'll run across one which reverses on me.
YES a reversed male can be used to remopve the direct trait of hermaphrodism..
But still a hidden survival trait underlies, use an autoflowering male or an early flowering male and the trait may be re-inforced and brought back...
I am into growing for the experience, the experiment..
I hate to experiment by myself.. This is why I come here, to learn and grow and share... Both myself and my grow benifit from this...
This is one of the few threads I have found where I can truly share my findings...
I for one am not scared of a hermie... But this year i'm running a diverse grow with 24 strains.. I have them all oudoors where it wont be so bad if there are some, the plants are in daylight with no leaks (L.O.L>no nightlights either) and will be less likely to produce hermies....
But ya better believe if any get spotted they get yanked immediatly...
I plan to do most my trimming outdoor this year, and will be spending a lot of time looking for them proverbial "sacks".
It's uncanny though, how many times I have walked into the growroom and spotted a hermie from 10 foot across the room..
I generally catch them just in time...
It's getting to be insinct after 30+ years of growing out landrace...
As long as there is landrace cannabis there will be hermies..
AS long as man continues to select for females of the species, some of these subjects will tend to have a survival instinct....
I think it could be bred out..
But subdued/hidden with a 70 to 90 percent female ratio is all I can verify...
My g-13 reversed male is making seeds on himself now...
God only knows what those beans will do.
tie
As to Joe Blow and his closet grow...
My first work was in fact culled from intersexed plants, hermies and selved past isssues... In my case it was me doing the s1 s2 process right along with some of the dutch (1999-2000) and because of whatever reasons, those selved seeds became all I had. We mostly know her as stinky....
I'll edit in a pic or two of her outdoors ....my f3....
But It was a double score in my case. Not only did I create a unique strain of my own..
I learned more than any amount of words can tell from her...
She has been my test subject, my monster, my baby...
For the first time in over 10 years I see the original phenotypes..
Afghani and colombian black....The are "representations" through the f2 of an outcross...
The colombian black is my afore mentioned "sterile" hermie..
I'm sitting on about 2 ounces of the stash from her.
It's my personal headstash. Even with g-13 and ugly betty (g-13xnlxkush) in my larder... I think I'll go blaze up a fatty now... Such nice joint weed.
Makes steely dan ring out in my mind "the fine colombian, makes tonight a wonderful thing"
Hermies are a pain in the butt, nothing will ever get me cussing as bad as hermies have.. But I'm a pitbull, once I got ahold of the tire I am not letting go...
I'll shake some knowledge outta that tire yet.
tie
My first work was in fact culled from intersexed plants, hermies and selved past isssues... In my case it was me doing the s1 s2 process right along with some of the dutch (1999-2000) and because of whatever reasons, those selved seeds became all I had. We mostly know her as stinky....
I'll edit in a pic or two of her outdoors ....my f3....
But It was a double score in my case. Not only did I create a unique strain of my own..
I learned more than any amount of words can tell from her...
She has been my test subject, my monster, my baby...
For the first time in over 10 years I see the original phenotypes..
Afghani and colombian black....The are "representations" through the f2 of an outcross...
The colombian black is my afore mentioned "sterile" hermie..
I'm sitting on about 2 ounces of the stash from her.
It's my personal headstash. Even with g-13 and ugly betty (g-13xnlxkush) in my larder... I think I'll go blaze up a fatty now... Such nice joint weed.
Makes steely dan ring out in my mind "the fine colombian, makes tonight a wonderful thing"
Hermies are a pain in the butt, nothing will ever get me cussing as bad as hermies have.. But I'm a pitbull, once I got ahold of the tire I am not letting go...
I'll shake some knowledge outta that tire yet.
tie
