Hermaphrodite

[Grat3fulh3ad]

I would have to agree with Sam on most points as well Grat3fulh3ad .

As would I... I said from the beginning that I 99.94%agreed with Sam... As I see it, since he has allowed for using a reversible plant in a breeding project under certain circumstances, it is more like 99.98%... the only disagreement remaining being a slight one about the importance of method vs. mechanism...

My work with hermies began as an experiement to make my own feminized seeds.
Must needs forced me to reclaim my strain from s1 and s2 generations of crosses made that were feminized.
feminized stock just means no males to carry on the strain with.
If your a breeder you should never use femnized seed for stock..
I would have lost my first X - I have been able to carry on a few years...
If it were not for my work with hermies...
But i have locked in a trait to bannana in the last 3 weeks, in one of the offspring (ditched BTW) And Also found a reversed male, to successfully remove the tendecy to hermie... I learned more from my experiements than any 10 books could have taught me. Simply because I learn best from doing.
I might not grow 1,000 plants at one time, but I do study the ones I grow extensively..

So you've successfully removed the tendency from the line?

Personally, I feel a reversed male to be the most valuable tool in breeding.
It removes the tendecy to hermie almost entirely (hidden traits are always a concern here), and it increases the male /female ratio up to a 60 to 90% female.
If you use short days and low temps, low nitrogen you can swing the female ratio to get %90+...... And still have a male or two now and then worth breeding with....
That to me is the best we can do with cannabis, 90% female and reduced or hidden hermie traits...
She has been fixing herself for years, we just need to listen to her, she'll tell us all we need to know....
tie

I guess this last part is where you disagree with Sam... I curious, do you not think you would reduce the percentage of herms by using a male that doesn't reverse? And do you not think that the resulting 'extra' females resulting from using the reverse male would carry a recessive reversal trait? In fact, I have to think that any females that are female as a result of low temps and low nitrogen would be especially likely to be sensitive...
90%females is a great ratio, though...

 

[Guest]

Well too late, I removed the two balls. The plant already has pistils, so I doubt these balls were going to make pistils.

Something else I just thought of. Here's a pic of the plant from a couple of days ago.


So you might notice that I tied the two tops to a stick to hold em straight up. Well the two balls were exactly above the places where the red rope was coiled around the stems. One ball for each stem (The plant was topped so it has two tops now).

I examined the plant for more of these balls, but found none. So i removed the red rope and left the plant to grow as it wants.

The reason I tied it is because the tops are leaning forward towards the sun (the sun hits the plant at a really low angle, on this pic it is about 60 degrees, with the advance of the day it hits the plant at less than 20 degrees, the shadow behind the plant is just a little bit shorter than the plant itself). So probably my attempts to intervine with it's desires have caused stress, and these two balls popped up. Just above the place where I tied it, the stem began to once more lean towards the sun.

 

[guest123]

tiedye420 ,, i have used reversed males and agree it does increase the amount of females , that i saw anyhow
.. however im not so sure on it removing the hermie tendency , at least with the plants i tried , it did not successfully do that ...
stress still produced hermie females ...
i will strill grow this s train , just dont try to grow it indoors , thats when the problems begin i found ...

 

[tiedye420]

As would I... I said from the beginning that I 99.94%agreed with Sam... As I see it, since he has allowed for using a reversible plant in a breeding project under certain circumstances, it is more like 99.98%... the only disagreement remaining being a slight one about the importance of method vs. mechanism... So you've successfully removed the tendency from the line?
I guess this last part is where you disagree with Sam... I curious, do you not think you would reduce the percentage of herms by using a male that doesn't reverse? And do you not think that the resulting 'extra' females resulting from using the reverse male would carry a recessive reversal trait? In fact, I have to think that any females that are female as a result of low temps and low nitrogen would be especially likely to be sensitive...
90%females is a great ratio, though...

I have removed the tendecy from the line for my purposes..
Maybe one in 10 will hermie under unnatural stresses.
Outdoors I have not seen much other than sterile bannanas in a rodelized colombian phenotype.. The anomoly which flowers and vegetates simultaneously. Still early in the season.
I have used an early flowering male and re-inforced the tendecy as well.
That generation was "set aside".
No I don't really disagree with sam or you for that matter.Were it not for the learning experience i might regret my work with hermies, as it stands I was forced to reclaim a work from s1 and femmed seeds which produced almost all hermies.. To get it down to 10% hermies is about all I'm gonna shoot for.
As to using reversed males as opposed to normal males..
If a line has problems then a reversed male is natures quick fix. A quick fix is not always a good answer. In this case i believe it to be.
It's gonna take a more scientific mind to explain it, but it's more of a chromosone thing happening.
xxyx verses yxyx or whatever.. I can't explain.
I just know the reversed males do carry an extra alleale which overrides the extra female aleale in the hermorphradite- bringing the filial offspring to almost no hermies, (unless unduly stressed as stated- then a highly reduced ratio should be expected- IMHO)
Yes the females can carry a recessive revesal trait, as can the males..
Early flowering males in all filial offspring should be removed, these tend to carry the gene through...
AS to adjusting your grow to low nitrogen and lower temps, less daylight,
The idea is to simulate a winter/spring condition, where the ratio of females is genrally higher..
In summer when the nitrogen in the soil unlocks and the temps get hotter there will be more males. It's a fact of nature..
At best we can do indoor is simulate nature, and my simulations are not always harsh untolerable climates.
My little town has weather very similar to that of kabul afghanistan..
genrally five degrees off give or take a few....
Pretty hot and arid. But I love to grow afghani's, and they do well outdoors here...Nature has my testing in order this year, at least round one..
Then I'll be bringing pieces inside for "furthur festive" testing....

Hope this answers your questions, or helps anyways...
I'm here to discuss BTW, I don't nessesarily disagree with anyone.
I with there were solid parent lines for stinky instead of the mess i made of her parentage... But she came allright in spite of my ineptness at breeding, and well the parent stock was lost because people went to jail for other reasons, me incuded...
For what it's worth If i could do it all over, id still play around like i did for the experience. I like the school of hard knocks i guess.
Still wish i had those original P stocks though...I have the hashplant phenotype going from f2. I hope it stacks up to the original.
tie

 

[tiedye420]

yes yes and yeah buddy.
they can carry recessive genes...
But I have a sweet phenotype of sour diesel F2- it threw a branch out towards the bottom with staminate action.
Having a g-13 reversed male handy, I couldn't resist setting them up on a date.
I only got around 20 viable seeds from this cross....
But I cannot resist a SourDxG, could you? L.O.L.
I'll probably run them as soon as i get my clones established inside, for continuing my line next year...
I guess a proper statment would be..
"A reversed male will DECREASE the ratio of hermies, as it INCREASES the ratio of females"

tiedye420 ,, i have used reversed males and agree it does increase the amount of females , that i saw anyhow
.. however im not so sure on it removing the hermie tendency , at least with the plants i tried , it did not successfully do that ...
stress still produced hermie females ...
i will strill grow this s train , just dont try to grow it indoors , thats when the problems begin i found ...

 

[tiedye420]

" It's the Anomoly, shall we proceed" (matrix reloaded)
Sam i'm curious
Would you consider this plant worthy of breeding, or at least investigating furthur?
She can exhibit sterile staminate "bannanas" in really late flowering.
Take into account, it's pretty close to the longest day of the year here in california. Here she is, the anomoly.
Half the plant entering a final phase of flowering while the other half vegges and slips into preflower at around 3 foot...
That seems the only constant- once a certain part of the plant vegges to 3 foot it slips into flowering. regardless of light hours...
This is outdoors, it will be interesting to take a clone of this subject inside to see how she acts in a controlled enviroment- 24/7 as opposed to 18/6, ect.
I myself find her facinating, and am intriged as to the why of things.
There is afghani/colombian in her..My best guess is it is some weird sorta juxtaposition of photperiods. the colombians vegetate in 12/12 lighting- while the afghanis would bud. This is just some mixup of those genes combining.
The colombian tendecy to reveg in spring has combined with the shorter light cycle of the afghani. She shoots new buds about every 3 months or so...
and is definetly a hermie.Although sterile.

 

[Farmer John]

Where did CBF go?

 

[ograskal]

I doubt anybodies gonna give you some seeds to test G......Who wants to be proved Wrong on a Public forum????...There are Reputations and Egos at stake here.....I'm pretty sure any Plant will show some nanners if given enough Stress.....I'd like somebody on here to tell me a Strain or Clone that wont show nanners under Extreme Stress conditions....I'll be waiting.....AND I wont be holding My Breath....~ogr

 

[Raco]

Hi Cedarberry,

Intersexual plants produce flowers some of which are male, & some female, this is what we commonly & incorrectly refer to as hermaphrodites. A hermaphrodite would have a flower/s that are both male/female (within the same flower as opposed to male flower here female flower there). I've never seen a true hermaphrodite in cannabis though they may exist.

jejejej!!
I´m going to post some pics later...

 

[Raco]

Have you ever seen this??

 

[esbe]

wow, no!

 

[Raco]

hola esbe
What do you think?
true hermaphrodite flower or not

 

[esbe]

looks so, what els, heeh?

 

[Raco]

It´s one of those La Bekaa leb´s 2005

 

[bonecarver_OG]

3 pistils and one banana.. it looks odd - thats for sure hehe interesting..

peace mate

 

[GrassMan]

WOW Amazing!
Raco, is the first time that I see this kind of hemaphrodite flowers on this genetic since I grow&share them (1992).
I wish it's unfertile.
Peace.

 

[bonecarver_OG]

well, if there is only one freak in the thousands u planted during all that time, i think the genetics are rock solid. as a fact, i wouldnt mind growing that

peace bro

 

[Raco]

Hola GrassMan,
Do you mean that you have already seen that in other genetics??

 

[Dalaihempy]

Its a hermi.

I should of asket is that on just one flower site or is it showing all over the plant as its only starting to sex id still say hermi but from my experence any plant that shows both sex at onset of sexing is a hermi if that was half way threw flowering or later and i saw 1 pollen sac id call it a preservation trigger but as it looks its hermi.

 

[Dalaihempy]

I doubt anybodies gonna give you some seeds to test G......Who wants to be proved Wrong on a Public forum????...There are Reputations and Egos at stake here.....I'm pretty sure any Plant will show some nanners if given enough Stress.....I'd like somebody on here to tell me a Strain or Clone that wont show nanners under Extreme Stress conditions....I'll be waiting.....AND I wont be holding My Breath....~ogr

What types of stress we talking about tho natreal like one would find in nature ( heat/wilting due to lack of water/ storm damage so on ) or man made type stress like lite leeks.