Hermaphrodite

[Grat3fulh3ad]

True to a very small degree, JWP... However... the end result of the way I talk about doing things WILL NOT end up a bunch of seedy buds... If you had read, you would have seen that there is a side which you haven't mentioned... The side which started with plants which can be stresses enough to reverse, and did the proper work of breeding the bad out while keeping the best , and came out with superior strains which are very very hard to reverse...

Also... I STILL challenge anyone out there to send me this mythological strain which cannot be stressed into reversing... I'll germ them up, and we'll check out the reality of the situation...

That's more how I'd break it down... Realists who work with and improve what is there, and Idealist who want something which does not really exist...

Also... you really think the difference is as 'non-noticable' as the diff in 3.2 and 3.4? That's another mis-conception... anything stress reversable that I use for breeding is very noticeably more potent... Maybe not for the casual smoker, but for someone who smokes constantly, there are BIG differences in the qualities of what is available...

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

it would be a big mistake not to keep an open mind regarding intersex plants, & particularly those of exceptional quality.

And I would say that to match my stance on the subject... this would have to change to 'it would be a BIG mistake not to keep an open mind regarding those intersex plants of exceptional quality.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

The question to be asked is can the intersexuality be inherited? If yes then do not breed with it unless you clean it up first...

Even Sam Agrees with me that Intersex plants can be used as long as that trait is selected away from... This is all I've been saying the whole time, that a plant which will reverse under extreme stress, can be used in a breeding program, as long as the breeder does the work of selecting the trait down to an acceptable minimum...

Also...

Sam, if using silver to reverse a plant is not a stress, then what is it?
Does it go into the DNA and change it? Does it turn the 'y' chromosomes into 'x's? Is it a mutagen? Will the cuttings from a plant which was STS'd continue to produce intersex flowers in perpetuity, regardless of environmental changes?

 

[JWP]

lol maybe i should retract the seedy buds comment.

now i dont want to start a riot here or really piss any people off rather these words are intended to illustrate a perspective.

just have a look arround at some of the threads n comments in the vendor forum. clearly a lot of people do not like balls and kick up a stink in public about it even though the smoke may be exceptional.

It may have been the enviroment but thats just a headache i'd rather be without. I would rather x true than say 1 aceptional intersex & true or intersexual in the attempt to get closer to the mythological strain.

"Even Sam Agrees with me that Intersex plants can be used as long as that trait is selected away from"

Im sure rez for example has been tyring to selected away from balls for a long time! still doesnt stop those nasty threads does it

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

lol maybe i should retract the seedy buds comment.

now i dont want to start a riot here or really piss any people off rather these words are intended to illustrate a perspective.

No worries... I just really enjoy the discussion... no pissed off-ness involved, I'm in quite a good mood ...

I had to respond, though, because the perspective you illustrate seemed to not understand my actual position, since I fall in-between your two 'sides'

just have a look arround at some of the threads n comments in the vendor forum. clearly a lot of people do not like balls and kick up a stink in public about it even though the smoke may be exceptional.

It may have been the enviroment but thats just a headache i'd rather be without. I would rather x true than say 1 aceptional intersex & true or intersexual in the attempt to get closer to the mythological strain.

But, I'm NOT talking about outcrossing intersex plants and selling the cross.
Never have been.
I'm not talking about selling seeds which intersex plants.

I am saying that an exceptional quality plant which shows intersex traits under stress is not necessarily to be culled from the gene pool. I'm saying that through proper selection the trait can be bred out while retaining the unique qualities which made the original parent worth breeding in the first place.

Once again... Advocating the potential usefulness of a slightly intersex plant in a project IS NOT advocating selling seeds which produce pollen making females.

The only myth is that there are seedlines which are TRUE. If I am wrong... I still issue My challenge... Send me some of these 'true' seeds and we'll find the stressable intersex plants in the lot...

Peace, Love and Happy Holiday

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

BTW, I'm not rez, nor am I about to comment on his breeding program...
I do know that his success or lack of success concerning one particular cut and it's sensitivities have absolutely no bearing on the correctness of my position... I never said that every potent intersex plant should be bred with, only that a plant should not be ruled out solely because of stress-ability...

Also... since the subject has been broached... The buyer should do a bit of homework, and find out what they're buying... To buy seeds which are known to produce stress balls, and then be surprised when they show up seems a bit foolish to me... It's not like rez has ever tried to keep it a secret...

 

[JWP]

No worries... I just really enjoy the discussion... no pissed off-ness involved, I'm in quite a good mood ...

Yeah sometimes the finer points of communication can be lost online. The mood in .au is good also

I'd say all the sides have 1 goal in common. Perfection

For me perfection would include being true & quallity of smoke in that order.

In Toms Hypothetical situation i would take lesser quallity of smoke but true plant and start with that.
Who is to say that the offspring wont produce a plant that is true & has the quallity of the original plant that was not selected for breeding?
If you find it you have the perfect plant to cross back to.
But if you continue with a intersex plant you can see from the foresaid example that getting rid of the balls is a hard thing to do. And what do you cross to? You cant back cross to the intersex but quallity plant because your trying to breed that out.

Do you get me? I dont know if this is the best analogy but its an analogy all the same. Your saying your ferrari is better than my proche but your ferrari only has 3 wheels. The ferrari has something i dont want, a wheel missing. While the proche may not be as flash as the ferrari it does have everything i want.

Edit: While the mythical predominantly true plants may not exist now just like the once mythical supper potent varieties they are only some selective breeding away. Im convinced in a line the ratio of true v intersex can be raised significantly without loosing quallity or potency in my lifetime.
I agree that the buyer should do homework & know what they are buying rather than going in eyes closed then running off at the mouth afterwards.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

Edit: While the mythical predominantly true plants may not exist now just like the once mythical supper potent varieties they are only some selective breeding away. Im convinced in a line the ratio of true v intersex can be raised significantly without loosing quallity or potency in my lifetime.
I agree that the buyer should do homework & know what they are buying rather than going in eyes closed then running off at the mouth afterwards.

NOW, it seems with your edit, that you understand me...
This is Exactly what I've been saying!!
You CAN start with lines which are not 'true' and raise the ratio of true v. intersex significantly.
This has been my point the whole time. A plant which can be stressed to reverse is not necessarily a cull, and through a proper breeding program a line which produces 'true' plants can be bred from plants which reverse under extreme stress.

You seem very confused with your ferrari/porche argument... as though you are choosing between hermie seeds or true seeds...

Try this for a more accurate analogy...

I have porches to sell and someone else has volkswagons...
12 porches cost the same as 12 volkswagons, but 1 of the 12 porches has a wheel missing... Who in their right mind is going to pass up 11 perfect porches + one cull, for a dozen beetle bugs?

MY point is NOT about selling herm seeds, My point is about doing the work of removing the tendency from a line... Just because you can find an example of where it hasn't worked out perfectly, doesn't make any difference as to the validity of my point.

BTW... there are no true lines, as far as I am concerned... if you define a true line as one with 0% chance of throwing an intersexed plant...

That's why no-one will ever rise to the challenge of sending me some seeds to stress test...

It's nice for everyone to maintain their 'idealism' about intersex plants, but I'll keep on living here in the real world... Anyone who claims there are no intersex plants in their lines will have to show me....

 

[JWP]

Yeah i understand your persepctive. We are on the same page.

Im in the real world also and from where im sitting i see that people are having a hard time breeding out unwanted traits.

I see threads where female seeds have been used by people thinking "yeah im gona get all females" then they throw nannas and an accidental pollination of all the varieties in the room happens. Seen it more than once.

I like your analogy better. What happens when ur 12th proche crashes and takes out not only your other 11 but also my 12 volkswagons?

Just call them elite s1's or female seeds n list em on the bay?

You CAN start with lines which are not 'true' and raise the ratio of true v. intersex significantly

Yes but i think your underestimating how long this will take. Even for a shot term goal as per Toms hypothetical situation i think its a bad idea.

I guess it all comes down to how you want to stack your gene sandwich.

I understand your logic because the vast majority of plants are intersexed

m8 gimmi 20 or 30 years and i will send you some seeds to stress. Im pretty sure there wont be 0% chance of throwing an intersexed plant but i can guarantee the ratio of true:intersex will have significantly risen.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

I like your analogy better. What happens when ur 12th proche crashes and takes out not only your other 11 but also my 12 volkswagons?

Just call them elite s1's or female seeds n list em on the bay?

You'll get nothing garden wrecking from my seeds, bro.
And I never have liked 'fem'd seeds'... they're all bullshit anyhow, imho...
I'd not purchase 'S1s" either... since all they are is f2s anyhow, and more likely to be intersex than standard f2s...

The porche with three wheels was never driven by any driver worth their salt, btw... Good drivers know how to keep an eye on their ride in case any wreck causing conditions arise :wink:.

m8 gimmi 20 or 30 years and i will send you some seeds to stress. Im pretty sure there wont be 0% chance of throwing an intersexed plant but i can guarantee the ratio of true:intersex will have significantly risen.

That's what I've been saying... Start with Elite quality plants and breed out the intersexedness...

Whatever you have observed in relation to the sour lines is still irrelevant, Just because he didn't successfully breed the sensitivity out doesn't mean I couldn't have in the same timeframe... perhaps it is you who underestimate?

AND... why do you think I am underestimating?? I never said anything about how long it will take...

I only ever said that a plant should not be culled from a breeding program solely based on the fact that more extreme and unnatural make it put out a male expression in the last few days of flowering...

 

[JWP]

Yer we both have the same goal. Just im stacking my gene sandwich a little differently.
I'd like to breed in the quallities i want while your happy to try and breed out what you dont want.
For me its all about stability from the start. Thats why i was really interested in the sour kings hindu kush crosses but not so interested in something sour. I wonder whats happening with them.
If iam lucky enough to find something elite & true i can backsross straight away to it. Perfect for a shot & long term goal
Underestimating was just the vibe i got. I dunno how much time you have but i hope you have plenty. The g33 i ran was a funking monster. Cant wait to see what you'v got going in 5 or 10 years

 

[African herbman]

Hi guys, I have a male hermie and wanted to know what the benefits (if any) are if used for breeding purposes. I usually don’t want to touch hermies but I read some ware (I think it was in a DJ short article) that there are certain benefits to breeding with male hermies. Also what are the down sides, if any? Will the resulting seeds still have natural sex (male –female), common sense tells me they they will, just want to find out from some guys with experience with these things.
Regards, Ah.

 

[Wayzer]

that was alot of back and forth action, but was 20 pages of gold!
awesome info...

Sam posted that he believes sts is a "different" form of stress for reversing plants due to it not occuring in nature, and may not mean a plant is hermie if reversed cause of it...But the way i see it, if it's possible to have plants that don't reverse with sts, CS, Gib acid, then it must be a catalyst in unlocking the hermies faster... the ones that don't may be our keys in getting rid of intersexed genetics

 

[Wayzer]

It is one thing to try and clean up a variety to remove all the intersexed genes and quite another to just use it as a hermi to breed new hybrids.
As for your question about the difference between STS and light or heat stress, I do not have scientific proof like you want. I do listen to my inner voice and I usually end up right, but I do admit when I am wrong sometimes.
Logic tells me that there is a difference between environmental stress and STS, one can happen in nature the other never does. And today with under lights growing photo disorders are a natural environmental stress that will happen to every clone.
If a plant can change sex with any environmental stress I think it has genes for intersex, STS is different, it never happens in nature. STS being able to transform a female to male does not mean that the plant is carrying intersex genes, as far as I can tell. Environmental stress reveals plants with intersex genes. And I advise people not to use them if they want to breed better Cannabis hermi free.
If you think I am wrong then continue to breed with hermi intersexed plants.
But do not be suprised if your varieties have intersexed plants in their progeny.


-SamS

just for reference

 

[Guest]

please help confused grower

please help confused grower

i got me this female in my garden she got six nice cola starting to flower ........
problem is one of the six cola has gone male just going to cut it of and watch the rest for changes is this wise (or is it a few beers short for a six pack type of idea) can this work for me or will the others just follow suit with the sex change and will i be better of just pulling her or should i say (it) out......! ! ! !
its a shame coz she looks good other wise this is the first time i,ve only seen it on one branch of a plant all my other hermies went male all over .....

please help confused grower

aussie strains

 

[rexamus616]

hey oz strains, if you can afford it, try "reverse" from dutchmaster. It suposedly inhibits male flowers.... they advertise that they use it to grow seedless melons and cucumbers etc.

I've heard it mentioned on here and it sounds like the real deal.... not sure how expensive it is tho.


Elsewise you could try NAA hormone. (Naphaline Acetic acid) Its used as a rooting hormone (yates ezi root) but I accquired a bottle of this "Sex change hormone" (La Femme) made in sydney somewhere, and the active ingredient was "NAA Hormone".The stuffs illegal now or outlawed, whatever... but I tried some and it seemed to work....

Hahaha get fucked... I found the stuff and the place:

http://www.rdaquaponics.com.au/cgi-...=detail&pid=62173&from=31&domain=rdaquaponics

R&D Aquaponics
Wetherill Park, NSW


Shit yeah, well maybe its not illegal!! Grow hard!

 

[Guest]

cool

cool

thanks rex just had a sus at the stuff you suggested cheap too $30:00 i got that on order now it should be here in a copula days ....

dunno what happend to my hydro shop i think the owner must be i jail or sumthing coz it aint been open for five months now....

thank god for the online shopping network

aussie strains

 

[deZerTomB]

aussie- if that doesn't work, I'd go ahead and whack that one bud and watch the other buds closely. then I'd get rid of any clones and replace with clones from another female in your garden. Or start more seeds if you have to. Make hash out of the hermie bud after it dries. 8+)

 

[Cindy]

Hi All Not sure if this is the right place to ask as its all getting to be an info overload... Yep Im a newbie... This is 1st grow and it seemed to be going well.... Have been looking after a friends triffid which has been under close scrutiny (by a mate who has 20+ years more experience than me) as parentage uncertain but it was a clone of his mother.. All going well with the usual new setup kinks being ironed out. All budding nicely & definitely female. Now the triffid has seeds???? Where has the pollen come from... found 3 male flowers on the whole plant which is approx 1 yard sog, also 1 euphoria and 1 big bud x nl have seeds but the euphoria next to them is unfertilised. What is happening in the cupboard?? I have no idea why this happened but the people who own the plants are a bit upset as the named seeds were a bit expensive and they lost a few before I volunteered to help out. The 20 yr mate says its never been something he has had with mother or previous clones but may be due to stress as at week 3 in the flower cycle there was a 24-30 hour period of darkness after a small electrical fire in the light wiring which I wasnt able/willing to fix myself... Also how do we get rid of the pollen in the cupboard / stop this happening again as the next lot of babies are almost ready to go in there? The setup is 600wHPS over 10 pot hydro and clay beads using commercial matched nutrients. The named were grown from feminised seed but the triffid clone came out of soil into the hydro at about 12" tall so is much more advanced than the others. The space has not been used for growing before (in at least 8 years anyway) so I doubt it would be residual from a previous attempt.The nursery is in a separate building. Have I done something wrong or is it just one of those things?

 

[deZerTomB]

Well if you've got more ready to go in place of the seeded plants, then yank 'em and make hashish out of it. It's probably better to get rid of your hermies right away, because it'll get worse if you don't do anything. Don't worry about the reason, just be glad you have extra to fill in the space. I always grow twice as many beans as I need to account for males, hermies and screw ups.