heat and penetration

[Guest]

hey guys.. designing my next room now.. probably gonna go with 3k total flo, and a 600 (maybe 400) for perpetual veg.

I am looking for opinions here.. what will generate more heat? 3 1000ws or 5 600ws? I imagine the 600s would. the issue is that the 600s also produce approximately 115,000 more lumens than the 1000s.

I will almost certainly have to add an AC unit. anyone have suggestions on most power efficient/effective units?

how do 600s do for penetration? if they are in cool tubes and temp is not an issue, will they do well when hung vertically?

I am planning on going with future brite ballasts, does anyone have any opinions?

I am working on designing the next room as we speak.. I will probably be limited to 6 girls, and they will be in DWC.. I would greatly appreciate any input on designing my next room... and if anyone is savage enough to come up with a design that I actually use I'm sure I can find some way to thank ya..

thanks!

 

[meduser180056]

I saw a thread over on PG by Prawnconnery. He grows with a bare bulb 600 hung vertically. He's gotten close to a gram a watt with that setup. He said with a fan underneath the bulb blowing up and good extraction at the top of the space he could get the 600 as close as 6 inches. Probably about 2 feet of good penetration I'd say.

Sux portable A/C's are so expensive. I need one right now.

 

[Guest]

yea man those AC units are 3-5 bills easy. I may not be able to afford one off bat but I'd only veg with either 1 1k or 2 600s probably as I dont see it necessary to use more, depending on which type of ballast i go with. I'll go take a look for some threads by prawn. I am a believer in vertical lighting.

how about temps, meduser, any opinions on that? when I get a better idea of what works and what doesnt at this level of wattage I'll start to draw some rough drafts. I want to use c02 but I dont want to rely on it to help soothe the girls through high temps. I have used 2 1k before, and I know I could use 3 in this space, but I am starting to wonder if 5 600s would be feasable temp-wise.

thanks for the reply!

 

[-VT-]

I don't know anything about growrrom design and stuff....
There are a few good AC threads in this forum...
I'd go with a window AC.....BH's thread covers that...he did a design thread in this forum that was a good one
I've never run a 600....so i can't advise on that....
I think the best way to go is sealed with Co2 and a window AC....
2K watts for 6 girls....they're gonna get big ....gonna have to veg a while to make it worth it probably

I read Prawn's thread sooo many times....one of my favorites....yea check it out....the fan thing he does doesn't work for me....I'm in 150 cubic ft....he ended up adding a 400 for a subsequent grow....so a 600 and a 400....that guy has skills....not a member so I can't thank him for doin' that thread....I tried to copy his layout.....
Edit: Just saw you're usin' one 1K or 2 600's for the veg area

Gonna be a nice growroom

peace

 

[Guest]

yea, BH has a really innovative technique for using window units but they do involve cutting holes in the wall and im not 100% sure if Im prepared to do that on a place I dont own; Ive already had numerous experiences w/ short notice entry in the past. but depending on circumstances I may be able to, and I know the window units are a LOT easier on juice than the portable ones. they're also much cheaper. so I'll think about it

yea I am planning on vegging at least 4 weeks the first run, and will do perpetually probably most of the flo period for each subsequent run.

thanks for stoppin by VT I appreciate your input, guess its time for me to go take a peek at Prawn's vert 6

edit: to clarify, what I meant was, the very first run I will use 1 1k or 2 600s (depending on which i go with) for veg, BUT it will actually be done in the flo room. I just wont use each light because A, temps and juice, B, I dont see it necessary cause there wont be crowding issues with only 6 girls. do you feel I'd be losing big efficiency by sharing lights in veg?

In the last week of veg of my first run, I plan on taking cuts.. when they are well rooted I want to have them under a single 6 on the side, so as to eliminate the veg period in the future.

 

[-VT-]

window units but they do involve cutting holes in the wall

He built the growroom and mounted the window unit into the tent...the AC exhausts into the surrounding area/room in which his tent is housed....that heat is extracted by an exhaust for the room his tent is in.....

do you feel I'd be losing big efficiency by sharing lights in veg?

I like vegging with less light than I bloom with....if I had a 2K setup (I've setup a 2K setup before by the way....vegged under 2 400's...but had to tear down and bounce)....I'd veg nunder 1K and bloom under 2K

In the last week of veg of my first run, I plan on taking cuts.. when they are well rooted I want to have them under a single 6 on the side, so as to eliminate the veg period in the future.

Good plan...in bush/tree growing...perpetuality is the key....

peace

 

[The Dopest]

Hi the lorax! you aare talkin more power than i have delt with so i think i'll sit over here and drink a beer. holler if you need me hammer or drill somthin:wink:


sup VT! good advice

 

[meduser180056]

I'd go with 3 1000's. 5 600's will probably be hotter 2 more bulbs and ballasts.

If your only gonna do 6. That's 2 per 1000. Your gonna have to veg for like 2 months at least to maximize that situation. Soil or hydro?

What are the dimensions of the space?

You could handle the heat without A/C if you have good enough ventilation and enough space.

 

[Guest]

dopest, you have a lot of deep knowledge man, that res chiller is pure science and because i am worried about res temps under 3k I will prolly end up usin your chiller plans. most of what I am asking is just general stuff, so dont be intimidated because its more watts. I guess what I should do is find a few peeps that have both 600s and 1ks before and can help compare for me.

nah I think 4-6 weeks of veg will be plenty, ive seen what multi k DWC can do and I wasnt even taking advantage of vertical lighting. I dont have the dimensions offhand, its about what I'd call average for a master bedroom. maybe 10 x 10? not sure. if anything I'm worried about height, and I will probably top each girl but PC and bubba because they are naturally shorter. keep in mind after the first run i can veg on the side during the entire flo period.

the thing about extra ballasts is digital ballasts produce NO heat. i got to pick up and hold a future brite ballast, they are the little blue ones, about 1/4 size normal, and they produce no noise either. so I am more worried about the heat from the actual bulbs.

I dont think I can get away with no AC unless I use c02, but I plan to do that anyways. when I ran 2 1k, I had trouble keeping it cooled with a 10k btu(roughly, dont exactly remember) window ac unit (that was actually mounted on the window, lol, a lightproofing nightmare I wont try again). so I dont think not using AC will work, though I do plan on using cool tubes, and it is MUCH MUCH cooler here than where I was before - so ya never know till ya fire up the lights I guess.

thanks for stoppin by and helpin out guys. I am gonna be settin up this room in approx a month and I dont wanna be scramblin around doing the last minute rush thing. all input is appreciated!

 

[meduser180056]

Well since your going vertical and are in DWC your right 4-6 veg sounds good.

It'd be good if you could not top em cuz the vertical lights favor that christmas tree shape.

The digital ballasts sound sweet.

Maybe you should try and go with the five light KFB setup, but just do em DWC. 6 would work nice.

Say 4 600's for the corners and a 1000 in the middle. Like the five side on a die.

The ambient temps in your area definetly affect wether you need a/c or not.

I'm keeping an 11x11x8 room with 3 vertically hung bare bulb 1000's cool with a 10" exhaust fan pulling through a big ol carbon scrubber. No need for A/C really except for those rare days were it gets really hot and even then it's not needed just a luxury.

 

[Guest]

wow man i cant believe you can get away with 3 unshielded 1k and no ac! you must have really nice temps there. yea I was thinking of using the 5 side of the die for the placement of the lights if i went with 5.. thing is 4 6 and 1 1k is more wattage than i wanna use unless i eliminate my perpetual veg. its only 400w more, I will think about it, but I wanna go all digital and that number of digital ballasts is just expensive if they arent all 600s (can get the 600s for 280 with hortilux and no reflector, 325 with.. 1ks are 550!)

sounds like our rooms would be fairly similar if i went with the 1ks. how long do you veg with them and with what system?

 

[meduser180056]

Thats a good deal on those 600's. 550 is pricey sheesh.

I veg em for 6-8 weeks under a 1000MH that's in a horizontal air cooled hood.

Then transplant into flower area. I let em adjust to the vertical lights for a couple days and then flip to 12/12.

I'm in Pro-mixHP w/ Botanicare nutes.

Ambient temps in my area are great. I'm right by the water.

It rarely gets to 80 here even in the summer.

Don't eliminate your veg area those are important. A good rule of thumb for veg wattage is for it to be 1/3 of your flowering wattage. Otherwise you might have to veg em a lil longer after they move to the flowering room to maximize the space.

Go w/ 5 of those 600's sounds cheaper.

 

[Guest]

I use 3 1K vertizontals in an 8 by 8 room and I need a 12000 window unit and a 9000 portable to keep things cool enough,thats amazing getting by without any AC

 

[rastamonunika]

There is a great place online that sells digi ballasts. Incredibly cheap! And i believe that they are starting up a "package" deal with ballast, light, and reflector for under 300, i believe. ( i tihnk for 400w tho, not 600w, i could be mistaken tho) The reflector is very nice, wiiide footprint it looks like (havent purchased one, just a ballast)

i dunno if im allowed to post the webby so PM me and let me kno if your interested. Or, pm me and let me know that its OK to post web addy's. . . Cuz really,. this site has killer deals that you can not pass up. . .

good luck!

lots of Love and Light

unika

 

[Guest]

I already have my source and think im gettin it cheaper but thanks for stoppin by.

again remember I would be able to veg during entire flo period, theres no way thats not enough veg time.

actually no, 3x digi 1k for 550= 1650, and 5x digi 6 for 325 = 1625. price is not the issue, effectiveness is.

I would lose 115,000 lumens if i went with the 1ks, but I am seriously considering it cause I'm afraid of the heat from 5 600 bulbs.

thanks for stoppin by meduser, unika, and skeletor

skeletor whats a vertezontal? is that a personal design?

 

[meduser180056]

They could really crowd that 400 towards the end of veg. 400 is the bare minimum you'll need to keep that flowering space full. Definetly plenty of veg time though. That's what's awesome about having seperate veg. You can veg em the whole time the other ones are flowering. No waiting for em to get up to size.

I think the 5 6's sounds the best.

A vertizontal is similiar to a normal vertical hood, but the bulbs are positioned horizontally in the hood. Basically a vertical style hood with a horizontal bulb.

I don't have any hoods and I have fans blowing up from underneath the bulbs. This helps with cooling. Those hoods trap alot of heat.

Skeletor- How do you like those vertizontals? Never heard of anyone actually usin em

I guess I'm just really lucky to be able to run 3k w/o A/C. Never really took into account how low my local temps are. Shit today we barely got to 71.

 

[Guest]

yea I am not planning on using any sort of reflectors whatsoevr beyond mylar, just cool tubes. thanks for clearing that up. also, I agree, I currently have a 4 and feel it may not be enough to veg the way I want, so I may give it away and upgrade the veg light to a dig 6. thanks again for the help meduser.

 

[BabyHughie]

He built the growroom and mounted the window unit into the tent...the AC exhausts into the surrounding area/room in which his tent is housed....that heat is extracted by an exhaust for the room his tent is in.....

exactly!


With the ACs, personally I found they work MUCH MUCH better when you run them with a sealed room. If you are constantly sucking out the cold air and bringing in new warm air, the AC has to work harder to have less of an overall impact.

What Ive found to work out best when using a vented room design, is to cool down the temps in the area your pulling air from, not the actual grow space itself. Cooling down the source air will in turn cool down your grow assuming you have enough venting. If you can pull air from under your house, that is a VERY good spot. Easier said than done though. If you happen to be blessed with a crawl space in your grow room then



Lorax bro, if you go sealed with cooltubes, I can all but gurantee you that a $200-250 window AC will MORE THAN cool your room. I have 2 1ks, aircooled with glass but very ghetto style (you should see all the reducers and bends in the ducting :wink: ) and with my 5k BTU $90 AC I can get my temps down below 70F running the AC at full tilt (7/9). I currently have it set at 4/9, and temps never go over 75 with both lights on or under 68 with both lights off.

Sealed, CO2, cooltubes, vertical lighting, GOOD FUN!

I would go for the 1ks personally, thats 2 less cooltubes and the ducting that go with them. Grow um BIG, have 7-8ft MONSTERS, OH YEAH

 

[Guest]

I think I am leaning toward the 1ks because they are also going to produce less heat. not many reports on digital 1ks i feel a little like a guinea pig.

I plan on going sealed hence c02 plus desire for AC. but, the reason I cant do a plastic wall is because I will need the entire room. I dont think venting the window ac into the closet would be a good idea, but I could light proof the bathroom and vent into it thru a zipper door. what do you think about that?

 

[BabyHughie]

Well, I would do it one of these 4 ways...Because you have both a closet and a bathroom to work with youve got options!

A. Remove the bathroom door, build stand for AC, place stand in doorway of bathroom, wall off doorway with poly, run fart fan 24/7 to vent AC heat into attic

B. Build stand for AC, put it up next to the window, wall off window area (which would in turn be lightproofing too), use an inline duct fan to vent AC heat out window.

C. Build stand for AC, push stand off into one corner of the room, wall off that corner, cut hole in ceiling, use an inline duct fan (or fart fan) to vent AC heat into the attic.

D. Remove the closet door, build a stand for AC, place stand in doorway of closet, wall off doorway with poly, cut hole in ceiling, use inline duct fan (or fart fan) to vent AC heat into attic.

Options A and B require NO drywall cutting, since I know your a bit scurred on that, and options C and D require 1 hole for the AC vent, plus if your cutting one hole you might as well cut another one for the cool tube venting. If my words are not making complete sense I can draw up a very primitive (but effective) 'layout' with MS paint. A picture is worth a thousand words afterall



Remember, the AC is gonna take up roughly 3x3 (a little less really). So its not like a whole lotta room if we're talking about an entire bedroom your working with. Stick it in one of the doorways (closet or bathroom) and you waste NO SPACE in the bedroom.

But man when you look at the cost of a portable to the cost of a MORE EFFICIANT window unit its night and day. Plus, you have to worry about portables exchanging air along with the heat, which I personally did not want because I went sealed and for odor control reasons.