Healthcare passes house. your thoughts?

[hippie_lettuce]

Let's not forget the context that the Constitution was written in. For example, when they wrote it, it was in reference to the "white, propertied, male Christian" whose idea of the "pursuit of happiness" is keeping his land and his status. So, if you want to say that "life," as it is written in the Constitution, necessarily implies healthcare, you are denying that their definition of protecting the unalienable right of life is for the ability to own guns so that one can defend one's "property."

And if you want to bring Jesus or God in to the discussion, why not every other religion's god? What would they think of the healthcare reform? This just goes to say that the Constitution was basically all about the white, propertied, male Christian, and that it was nothing but that until amendments were made.

 

[T.Baggins]

Republicans hate it because it's going to work. Democrats like it because it's going to work.

I like it because the Insurance Industry has been getting away with legalized robbery for decades. The bill FINALLY makes those practices illegal. This is probably the best news for average Americans since the New Deal.

Some regressive folks still don't understand how huge this change is, but they will when the benefits start kicking in.

It's the first victory in The People vs. Corporations fight in modern American history. Not a simple feat and it's now on it's way to becoming law. Great work Mr. President and Madam Speaker!

lmao... damn i just about fell outta my seat with the new deal comparison..

lets be honest the new Health Care bill ('Affordable Health Care for America Act' HR 3962) is filled with agenda items of the psychology lobby and big pharmaceutical companies....not to say that health care isn't now corrupted by the same interests, but this bill is clearly intended to prop up psychiatry as well as the pharmaceutical industry with billions in future income!
this bill makes no provisions to ensure little to no conflict or interest between major health care providers and these major corporate entities!

of course all of this will add billions to health care mandates and ensure that the new reforms require billions in increased taxes... but ask yourself "where are my billions going".... right into the hands of those the same major corporations and pharmaceutical industry's that you have since claimed victory over...

lets be honest this bill is crap!!

we definitely have a problem with the insurance system and health care in this country, underwriting not fair, but this bill is not the answer!

 

[Jacky Treehorn]

As a health care professional, I'll be doing one of two things if this bill goes through:

1. Cash only boutique practice
2. Moving out of the country

Funny how AMA supports this bill....I just want everyone to know that the AMA DOES NOT represent the interests of average practicing physicians. They represent unrealistic academia ideologies. They have really failed to protect the interests of your average doctor.

There are serious problems with the current healthcare system. However, the bill will only make things worst for physicians. More patients, less compensation, longer hours, more competition with foreign trained doctors, increased income tax surcharges (to pay for this bill), fines, the list goes on. Increasing patient pools and decreasing physician compensation is going to really hurt quality.

Typical situation:
Crackhead gangbanger gets shot by police and comes into the OR. Gets free surgery, free food, free ICU for months -- totals up to easily $300,000. State does not pay for it, crackhead gangbanger does not pay for it. I do, out of my tax dollars. Great, 13 years of medical training down the drain so doctors are forced to treat and eat the expense of assholes like this.

People forget that healthcare depends on healthcare providers.

 

[JimBeamKush]

Jacky I hate to bust your bubble but if the gang banger went in there today, he would still get all of that and it would still be at your cost.

This bill is for people like me who got laid off, I had no choice, I was only making around 50k a year but I got laid off with no control over it. Now I am working some bullshit ass job with no health insurance, I had kidney stones about 2 months ago and had to go to the ER for a catscan and then some pain meds. Took all of about 1 hour, 6 THOUSAND dollars in 1 hour?!?! How the fuck am I supposed to pay for that you tell me?

I am a full time college student working a bullshit job trying to get by, I can not afford health insurance and nither can my room mate who works full time.

I believe that if you work full time and go to school full time I should not get RAPPED by the doctors bills.

To all of you against the health insurance bill, I will tell you it is not perfect, but FUCK your greedy ass.

 

[haze crazy]

Let's not forget the context that the Constitution was written in. For example, when they wrote it, it was in reference to the "white, propertied, male Christian" whose idea of the "pursuit of happiness" is keeping his land and his status. So, if you want to say that "life," as it is written in the Constitution, necessarily implies healthcare, you are denying that their definition of protecting the unalienable right of life is for the ability to own guns so that one can defend one's "property."

And if you want to bring Jesus or God in to the discussion, why not every other religion's god? What would they think of the healthcare reform? This just goes to say that the Constitution was basically all about the white, propertied, male Christian, and that it was nothing but that until amendments were made.

I take the word life litererally as used in the US Constitution. I don't believe there is only one simple definition to the word life. IMHO both defintitions can exist peaceably as long as nobody uses a gun to shoot other humans. The constitution is all about enabling the citizens of the US and not place restrictions reguarding life liberty and our pursuit of happiness.

I mentioned Jesus not to point on to any particular religion, it was using a relevant example to show just how duplicitous an argument against reforming health care is. Most of the right wing against healthcare reform in this country are devout Christians. I just can't see how so many many right wingers can be against reforming health care while all the time think that are "good Christians" or good practitioners of any religion. When you look into the big picture of any religion it's all about being kind and generous to your fellow man. It's just the golden rule... So many right wing christians think they have a monopoly on the dogmatic truth(s), they fail to see what true goodness is all about. Here is a small chance to make the world better and people scream about the financial burden??? Then who will they blame when they take away their house and possessions to pay for a Alzheimer struck parent's care? Or will they just let their parent live out their days to die in a nasty smelly nursing home rather than at home with family and dignity intact?

 

[Richard Gozinya]

This will be great, the 20 million folks that don't have healthcare can now be put on the books and the rest of us can pay for them. My current HC is just fine. Oh and I bet that when you show up for free healthcare and you fail your drug test you will be fucked. I use MMJ thats why it was in my system, sorry you need to take our drugs not grow them in your yard for free. You know how you used to get out of paying taxes with the right deductions, I doubt you will now.

How ever much our dear gov has to spend for me to be safe and healthy is fine, I just want safety. And Rainman the healthcare system the gov offers vets, is fucked, we called it the hobby shop, which I'm sure you are well aware of. My ass feels so reamed at this point whats a few more thousand for my country.

 

[Machine Elf]

I think finally USA is catching up with the rest of civilized nations.

I do not understand this anti healthcare nonsense I see in the USA, it makes no sense.

In one argument you have people saying it will cost to much. USA spends more on military defense than any country. The two wars in Afghanistan and Iraq have bankrupted USA, and they have already dumped numbers up to 50 trillion into the war effort. This is insane, yet people will complain about a healthcare plan that costs 1 trillion dollars over a long period of time? I suppose propaganda does work!

Funny USA could decommission 10 or 20 of its 45 or so nuclear submarines and pay for healthcare there. Military spending is the single largest part of the USA budget, and also the most secretive.

USA taxpayers shell out buko bucks for secret classified technology they don't even know about and is spun in the news as UFOs.

There will still be private insurance providers you can get crappy coverage with. Yes many will go out of business, and god willing too, since that is a GOOD thing for private insurance companies to go out of business.
Those companies make their money by KILLING people, flat out killing people. It is disgusting the "free market" capitalism system you claim to have. Funny in the USA constitution there is no mention of a free market system. That is because it is a bad thing and markets need regulation to keep from running wild and selling snake oil (EXACTLY why USA has all the problems it does now with the economy, energy, healthcare, housing crisis, etc.).

It seems to me many of those arguments stem from a lack of knowledge about what socialism really is, and that many systems people live by are socialist in nature. In this way I cannot see how people can complain about it being socialism.
The fire department, police, unemployment, medicare, social security, etc., etc it goes on and on you pool money into services so you have them free of charge as needed. Adding healthcare to this is not only common sense but an inherent right to all persons. These people CLEARLY do not know what socialism is and USA right wingers need to wake up to the fact that they have tons of socialist programs!

Many rich people will pay out of pocket, because they can, to go to the specialist centers or specialist doctors at the top of their fields to receive such treatment from them. It seems liars turn this into there being long wait lines in treatment facilities and so on when that is false. Rich people will pay to go to the best doctors and receive the best, most expensive drugs and will travel anywhere to do it. This is the nature of a capitalist game, and it's entirely bullshit!

I would like to expound on some other arguments:

# “Sec. 59b (pp. 297-299) says that when you file your taxes, you must include proof that you are in a qualified plan. If not, you will be fined thousands of dollars. Illegal immigrants are exempt from this requirement.”

I don't see the problem with this. People should want healthcare, and in fact why shouldn't it be required for everyone, especially working tax paying citizens? In USA if you have an emergency and have to go to the hospital and you don't have health insurance and you can't pay for it, EVERYONE ELSE has to pay the bill and this overall results in higher healthcare costs for you and everyone else! This system will make it so you have to get healthcare so that you do not wind up making everyone else pay for your health problems like it does now!

# “Sec. 1114 (pp. 391-393) replaces physicians with physician assistants in overseeing care for hospice patients.”

I don't see the problem with this (it shows a lack of knowledge about what physician assistants are and what they do).
Physician assistants are more than qualified to oversee routine care for hospice patients. Physician assistants must have extensive training and have taken over practices such as setting bones and making casts and assisting doctors with surgery. Many of the easier tasks once relegated to doctors has been passed on to physician assistants to free up doctors' time for more important work. Most physician assistants get into the field because it makes becoming a medical doctor easier and many go on to become doctors.

# “On Nov. 2, the Congressional Budget Office estimated what the plans will likely cost. An individual earning $44,000 before taxes who purchases his own insurance will have to pay a $5,300 premium and an estimated $2,000 in out-of-pocket expenses, for a total of $7,300 a year, which is 17 percent of his pre-tax income. A family earning $102,100 a year before taxes will have to pay a $15,000 premium plus an estimated $5,300 out-of-pocket, for a $20,300 total, or 20 percent of its pre-tax income. Individuals and families earning less than these amounts will be eligible for subsidies paid directly to their insurer.”

I would assume without fact checking the actual wording that you are simply misrepresenting or lying what is actually said. Its probably true that for your numbers given the costs of healthcare now far exceed what you stated, meaning americans will save money because they are dishing out much more already.

Again if you are so worried about cost stop funding wars and think about where all the american people's money went (those wars again). Healthcare could have been paid for 50 times over with that money!

# “Sec. 1161 (pp. 520-545) cuts payments to Medicare Advantage plans (used by 20 percent of seniors). Advantage plans have warned this will result in reductions in optional benefits such as vision and dental care.”

I doubt this is true for many reasons. For starters, the public option will allow seniors to opt into the plan as opposed to having medicare. This is what they want, so they can phase out medicare and get all seniors that need to on a public plan. Once there is a public option there really is no need anymore for medicare, since seniors can just get the public option and still not have to pay for anything AND get EVEN BETTER service and healthcare!

# “Sec. 399V (p. 1422) provides for grants to community 'entities' with no required qualifications except having 'documented community activity and experience with community healthcare workers' to 'educate, guide, and provide experiential learning opportunities' aimed at drug abuse, poor nutrition, smoking and obesity.”

SO? AND? You say with no required qualifications but "having 'documented community activity and experience with community healthcare workers' to 'educate, guide, and provide experiential learning opportunities' aimed at drug abuse, poor nutrition, smoking and obesity" IS A HUGE QUALIFICATION are you really serious?

Community entities, such as the YMCA, nonprofit groups, substance addiction centers, rape crisis centers, etc., etc. will get additional support so that they can help the community and try and make communities as a whole healthier by education. And education works! Trying to curb unhealthy eating, smoking, etc., etc and get people to eat healthy and live healthier lives will invariably cut healthcare costs down tremendously and give people a better chance to be and stay healthy!

# “Secs. 2521 and 2533 (pp. 1379 and 1437) establishes racial and ethnic preferences in awarding grants for training nurses and creating secondary-school health science programs.”

Gee I sure hope so, the white racist elites of the USA and world have been shitting all over minority groups from the beginning and it needs to change. The biggest groups of people who need the most help, and most funding for education and thus the empowerment to change your situation, are minority groups.

This article is more education funding so children receive education on how to keep themselves healthy and so will invariability cut down overall healthcare costs.

I am beginning to see a huge pattern of lies and misconceptions about this healthcare plan. Everything in it so far you have pointed out is in fact a GOOD thing, but you are trying to claim it is bad. What the fuck???!?!

# “Sec. 224 (p. 118) provides that 18 months after the bill becomes law, the Secretary of Health and Human Services will decide what a "qualified plan" covers and how much you'll be legally required to pay for it. That's like a banker telling you to sign the loan agreement now, then filling in the interest rate and repayment terms 18 months later.”

No it is the qualified professional being appointed by the people to figure out exactly what everyone is going to need and what it will cost. They will tell the people what is needed/wanted/required and from there negotiate depending on the actual amounts and what is required to implement the a public option and what the plan will cover.

Also, the secretary will be able to look at people who are on private health insurance plans and say "wait, this plan says you can be excluded for preexisting conditions, or this says etc., etc., etc" and because of the company you are with is trying to fuck you over, you don't have to pay their expensive premiums for terrible health coverage since it doesn't qualify because they are not covering you, and insurance companies will be required to sell plans that actually cover people no matter what conditions, and they won't be able to overcharge or deny people to get on a plan when they already have a preexisting condition. The price will be regulated in this way so private companies can't screw you and you won't have to pay huge costs to get on a health plan that actually covers you and will ensure that you get the best treatment for your condition.

Again all these things are good things not bad things I can't understand why some USA people don't want a public option.

Less than 30,000 jobs created or saved, and much of that to do with circumstance rather than actual job creation.

These are just ridiculous lies. I don't know where people get this stuff from, but they should stop listening to right wing frauds and liars. The stimulus package has saved or created upwards to 600,000 jobs, or over 1 million if you count indirect funding for job creation.

The only people I can see brainwashed here are those who decry a public option and reformation of USA healthcare.

These people don't seem to understand that the rest of the world looks at them like a joke. I would imagine the same people trying to curb a public option deny global warming science and evolution. It is funny when you look at the poles in USA it is pretty much only 25% or so of fringe ultra conservative republicans who do not want a public option or health reform, who deny global warming, want no welfare system, etc., etc. Very telling!

1. I just checked the founding Documents..... Heathcare is not a right, not even if you say it over and over.

I just checked the documents, it says nothing in there about a "free market" system or anything about having a "capitalistic economy" with no regulation. Hmmmmmmm

Healthcare IS a right. Just because you do not want to think so doesn't mean it is any less a right. I will love to see you decry healthcare being a right when you have no money are sick and dying and a hospital won't take you because you have no money. You will be begging on your knees for universal healthcare!

Its funny people don't seem to realize that a public option is not for those who like their plans and want to pay huge premiums to insurance companies while getting fucked over its for the millions of people without any health coverage who need it and want it and who don't want to pay out the ass for it while being entirely covered knowing they can get care whenever they get sick!

3. The "if everyone has heathcare it will bring cost down" line.... OK smart guy.... Prove it or share your source so I can show you haw false that is.

See above. USA spent 50+ trillion on 2 fake wars for oil and spends more on military budget than most of the rest of the world combined! Ever hear of food not bombs you should try that shit sometime maybe then usa economy won't be a shit hole!

When someone or a group kills thousands of your people, and attacks your allies you don't send band aids and x-ray machines you send napalm.

Hows that shit working out for ya?

You lost in 'nam too! Guerrilla warfare will pretty much always beat out any technology hands down unless you nuke large areas. And even then bombing large areas, even whole countries, isn't really that effective.

5. How the hell are you going to talk about abortion, then talk about preserving life. You better go learn some history if you want to learn from it. Start with General Pershing and his activities in the Philippines.

Again more nonsense. Abortion preserves the life of the mother, in more ways than one (ie. in more ways than just saving her immediately threatened life). You easily forget that. Babies are born, fetuses are not. If you want throw around anti women arguments like you did here I can assure you that you will be thoroughly destroyed with that line of malformed thinking!

6. Do you honestly think that patriotic Americans are going to tolerate a government telling them they have to buy insurance so they can tell them what to do and what to eat? I mean really?

When that's not really going to happen, yes I do. And even if what you say were the case, which it is not going to be, yes I still think patriotic Americans will tolerate it!

No there will not be civil war with a public healthcare option. You must be insane!

Yes I cannot see why any American would not want to a public health option (yes I do they are brainwashed by lies and propaganda).

It is sad people have to fight for their rights but that does not mean they shouldn't! Keep fighting!

Its too bad when I think that if legal medical cannabis got into the heathcare bill then that vocal white minority would change their tune. But they will never legalize in USA.

 

[Jacky Treehorn]

Jacky I hate to bust your bubble but if the gang banger went in there today, he would still get all of that and it would still be at your cost.

This bill is for people like me who got laid off, I had no choice, I was only making around 50k a year but I got laid off with no control over it. Now I am working some bullshit ass job with no health insurance, I had kidney stones about 2 months ago and had to go to the ER for a catscan and then some pain meds. Took all of about 1 hour, 6 THOUSAND dollars in 1 hour?!?! How the fuck am I supposed to pay for that you tell me?

I am a full time college student working a bullshit job trying to get by, I can not afford health insurance and nither can my room mate who works full time.

I believe that if you work full time and go to school full time I should not get RAPPED by the doctors bills.

To all of you against the health insurance bill, I will tell you it is not perfect, but FUCK your greedy ass.

Firstly, I am sorry to hear about your health problems. I hope your condition improves.

Does it make you feel any better to know that I can't afford my own health insurance, even as a health care provider? Thats because I'm required to pay for my employees healthcare first!! Tuition for medical training in this country runs about $400,000. I'm barely making ends meet after 13 years of training. You do not get paid in med school, you pretty much eat, sleep, shit, and are a literal robot for years and years. I literally gave my life to this profession - some of the hardest, most grueling and intensely depressing years of my life were spent in medical training. Stress that I can never expect the average person to even understand, and I even live with illnesses due to chronic stress. I'm not part of the golden era of doctors (you know the ones with big houses and mercedes). I'm in the era of struggling doctors, with half a million in tuition bills coming out my ass. So how much are you in debt? I can promise you it's not $400,000. I am technically worst off than the average person, without healthcare - and I am the one providing healthcare! So I hate to burst your bubble, but not all doctors have big houses and fancy cars - in other words, I am far from greedy. Some of us still live in shitty apartments, and work 120 hours a week, barely making ends meet.

The current system is awful, but this bill does not cover ANY of the interests of doctors. I was at least expecting the government to help us out, maybe subsidize some of our loans? I am very upset that the bill is completely lop sided.

 

[hippie_lettuce]

haze...we got one thing in common...and that's a fascination for the haze plant. But I will have to keep disagreeing with you about this bill and the way the Constitution, sans amendments, was originally written and about its original intent. I just can't believe that they meant "life" the way you do when they thought that 2/3 of a person can really make up a person. I mean, who counts a person as 2/3 of what they are?

In response to your second paragraph, I will definitely take care of my parents if they ever got to that point. In fact, my mom is a CNA and has worked with elderly people for a few years now. If she had the money, she would have brought her "patients" to her own home and have them live there for free. But, she does not have the money to do so.

I do not want anyone to be without healthcare. But I really don't think that this bill is the answer. Why couldn't I read it? Because it was 1,000 pages long. It would have taken me years to decipher the true intents of their words. I just want a reform bill that does away with all the frilly shit that insurance companies have. If the government is not willing to get its hands dirty with insurance companies, then I see no good reform in the future.

 

[Cookie monster]

Having read this whole thread i'm left wondering 1 thing, i'm not american so i dont have a full understanding so please bare with me..

Say you dont have health insurance and are working 9 to 5 to support your stay at home wife and 3 kids.
Supposing one of the kids has cancer and you cant afford the treatment , i'm thinking of the film john q with denzel washington type of thing.

What happens to the kid?

 

[9Lives]

The bailout was nonsense the healthcare bill is nonsense. Your government is totally out of control and a collapse of the dollar is sure to follow. The bailout created jobs ? Many of my countrymen say that the Soviet Union was much better than capitalism because everyone had jobs. What happened ?

Having healthcare will seem meaningless when you have to fork out a 100 dollar bill for a loaf of bread. This is where you are heading right now..

And it's amazing how little you know about your own constitution thinking you have the right to healthcare. You have a right to own property and a right to life. Wich means you have a right to own your own body. Owning your own body is a god given right..it is your property. Healthcare is a service you have no rights to services.

It's pretty sad the way you are destroying the greatest country history has ever know. The only reason you got so far is your constitution. It's the fairest document i have ever read..


And bringing Jesus..a fictional character into the debate is just...pathetic!


http://www.usdebtclock.org/ tick tock tick tock...just a matter of time..if you have anything to spare of your 2000$ worth of savings lol..i suggest you buy some gold or commodities...a shitstorm is coming..

 

[Rouge]

My 2 cents. THE FACTS: For private insurance, 80 cent of every dollar goes to pay for the health cost of a typical patient. 20 cents goes to pay for the salary, profits, paper pushers, and other administrative expenses. When the 80 cents declines and the 20 cent increases, the market rewards those insurance companies that can do that. The insurance companies do that by denying claims. When the 80 cents increases and the 20 cent declines, the market punishes those insurance companies that do that. ie., lower stock price, higher borrowing costs. Why?...... Less profits for shareholders. Medicare pays 97 cents of every dollar for the health cost of a typical patient. Only 3 cents goes to pay for the salary, paper pushers, and other administrative expenses. Tell me, honestly, where would you rather put your health insurance premium? There are 46 million Americans without health care insurance. When they have to go to the hospital emergency room, needing critical care at that point, guess who pays? That's right, you do! Taxpayers, and paying for the most expensive of all care. We pay for EVERBODY'S health care, one way or another. It cost the taxpayers trillions to rescue AIG (& others), the largest insurance co in the U.S., which gambled away insurance deposits on risky securities, from pulling the economy into another great depression. We must be stupid if we want more of the same.
I don't hear seniors complaining about their health insurance so I say Medicare for all.

 

[haze crazy]

Before I was born, I read the brochure that touted " America is a free country " saw the photos of everyone smiling and being nice. I heard it was a place where neighbor helps neighbor. One for all and all for one, let's go team! it said.
Well I finally get here kicking and screaming just to find lots of greedy bastards hoarding their precious money. Then finding only 5 percent of world's population housing 25 percent of the world prisoners. WTF ...I guess a few well paid (by lobbyists) lawyers redefined the word freedom.

I'm with Shakespeare now... Kill all the lawyers...except mine...

An old friend who is a very successful lawyer in Chicago always said "My Job? Well I'm a legal Liar!"

Truth in advertising, Does that make him an honest lawyer? Kinda oxymoronic ain't it? Or should I write oxymorose?

I hope I don't have to explain how the lawyers helped screw up the healthcare system in the first place to some pinhead that missed that segment on their daily Fox news broadcast...

This argument is fun ....but getting more like shooting fish in a barrel.


Speaking of fish.... I have got some fish to fry ... grouper ... literally ...I think I'll use coconut oil this time as it makes the outside nice and crispy.... Okay mom... kids... dinner is at 5!!!


"I still love you man ...even though you are different than me" anonymous

 

[9Lives]

Before I was born, I read the brochure that touted " America is a free country " saw the photos of everyone smiling and being nice. I heard it was a place where neighbor helps neighbor. One for all and all for one, let's go team! it said.
Well I finally get here kicking and screaming just to find lots of greedy bastards hoarding their precious money. Then finding only 5 percent of world's population housing 25 percent of the world prisoners. WTF ...I guess a few well paid (by lobbyists) lawyers redefined the word freedom.

I'm with Shakespeare now... Kill all the lawyers...except mine...

An old friend who is a very successful lawyer in Chicago always said "My Job? Well I'm a legal Liar!"

Truth in advertising, Does that make him an honest lawyer. Kinda oxymoronic ain't it? Or should I write oxymorose?

I hope I don't have to explain how the lawyers helped screw up the healthcare system in the first place to some pinhead that missed that segment on their daily Fox news broadcast...

This argument is fun ....but getting more like shooting fish in a barrel.


Speaking of fish.... I have got some fish to fry ... grouper ... literally ...I think I'll use coconut oil this time as it makes the outside nice and crispy.... Okay mom... kids... dinner is at 5!!!

You are right that America is not as free as it used to be..Who is responsible ? You the people! Should have stepped up a long time ago..

Rest of your post is simply naive...And basing your life's philosophy on a brochure is amusing to say the least..

 

[Frozenguy]

Now you are speaking out of your ass.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion - but you are not entitled to your own facts. And suggesting there are massive wait times for medical care in Canada is bullshit.

I have known only one Canadian who ever sought health care in the USA -- and that wasnt because of wait times, but a belief that the brain surgeon in NYC was the best in the world. She actually had to wait longer to see this particular neurosurgeon in the USA than she would have had to wait for the operation in Canada.

The last time I attended at a doctor's office (March '09) - a walk-in clinic - for treatment, I had to wait 15 minutes. The appointment had been booked all of 90 minutes previously.

You ask Canadians if they would trade their medicare system for anything that resembles the American health care system? 98% of them will tell you to go to hell -- and not nicely. And that's a universal response from a country that can't agree on anything.

You'd think that a system that was as BAD as some nutty Americans claim it is would have people up in arms about it. The only thing Canadians would literally be up in arms about is if someone tried to take their Medicare system away. Doesn't that tell you that your doom and gloom assessment of Canada's unversal health care is, in fact, a god-damned lie?

Americans are outright loopy when it comes to this discussion. I don't anticipate that my comments will change yours at all - but I don't much care.

Fact is, the aspect of Canada's health care system that many Americans don't like is this belief that you need to call some government official first before a medical procedure is "authorized". It doesn't work that way. What a Canadian actually does is pretty simple. They go to the damn doctor. They get treated. The End. It doesn't happen. You call for authorizations from a HMO in the USA and assume every other system works that way. Well it doesn't.

But all of this is a sideshow. What opponents of univeral health care really don't like are the high taxes that come with it. You'd much rather that 30% of your population had no health care if it means that you don't have to pay higher taxes...as long as you aren't one of those 30%, that is.

Asking seven wolves and three sheep to vote on what's for dinner isn't democracy.

You have no clue about what you're talking about. I don't care if you have a Canadian friend or not.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090915115149AANJ2Ut

People ARE waiting for health care in Canada, and they ARE coming to the USA for help faster! It is a true fact so don't try and spread FUD with your ignorance. Not everyone, but a lot of Canadians. Maybe not for cancer, but for "non-essential" surgeries like hip replacement. Who is to decide what part of your health is "non-essential"? The government? NO THANKS

Go to Canada if you want socialized health care. This is not an aspect of a free market. Our government is in the Auto business, the insurance business, the banking business and soon the healthcare business.

We don't have the money to pay for this and this plan is total BS

I WANT HEALTH CARE REFORM. Just not this, its a sick, twisted, unconstitutional joke that puts more undue financial stress on Americans and makes them potential criminals.

With that said, more government interference just takes the sense of responsibility from Americans.

I have a problem with the amount of government handouts already, and to add this whopper?!

I love society and I DO believe we need to work together and help each other, but not this. This is crossing the line.

The government has shown nothing but incompetence and mismanagement with the majority of its programs and agencies; I'm not about to give them this huge of a responsibility.


I'd like to see a soucre for you 98% statistic that Canadians wouldn't trade it.

And again, I do care about society, I do want to help, but this bill is not the way.

 

[Kiffen]

Hows that shit working out for ya?

You lost in 'nam too! Guerrilla warfare will pretty much always beat out any technology hands down unless you nuke large areas. And even then bombing large areas, even whole countries, isn't really that effective.

Well lets see. We get attacked on our soil in 2001. Not since, unless you want to count the whack job at fort Hood which I do not. On the other hand every second the sun shines on Ground Zero or the Pentagon, and or the field in PA it is night in the sandbox and our forces are either on the attack or planning one. We kill them all day and night, if that's your version of loosing...... please explain what winning looks like to you.

 

[Frozenguy]

The bailout was nonsense the healthcare bill is nonsense. Your government is totally out of control and a collapse of the dollar is sure to follow. The bailout created jobs ? Many of my countrymen say that the Soviet Union was much better than capitalism because everyone had jobs. What happened ?

Having healthcare will seem meaningless when you have to fork out a 100 dollar bill for a loaf of bread. This is where you are heading right now..

And it's amazing how little you know about your own constitution thinking you have the right to healthcare. You have a right to own property and a right to life. Wich means you have a right to own your own body. Owning your own body is a god given right..it is your property. Healthcare is a service you have no rights to services.

It's pretty sad the way you are destroying the greatest country history has ever know. The only reason you got so far is your constitution. It's the fairest document i have ever read..


And bringing Jesus..a fictional character into the debate is just...pathetic!


http://www.usdebtclock.org/ tick tock tick tock...just a matter of time..if you have anything to spare of your 2000$ worth of savings lol..i suggest you buy some gold or commodities...a shitstorm is coming..

 

[haze crazy]

Having read this whole thread i'm left wondering 1 thing, i'm not american so i dont have a full understanding so please bare with me..

Say you dont have health insurance and are working 9 to 5 to support your stay at home wife and 3 kids.
Supposing one of the kids has cancer and you cant afford the treatment , i'm thinking of the film john q with denzel washington type of thing.

What happens to the kid?

Je

The Kid? Jerry Lewis shaves his head and sticks him in the labor day telethon on the telly, America sends in tons of cash to save the boy. Jerry puts the money in his pocket, gives the kid a lollipop and sends him on his way. That's exactly how the do it here in America. (well, not exactly...in every case) First they make you think they care, pray in church in front of everyone for you... and when the stage lights go off..... "poof" the turn their backs and keep 'their' money.

Actually there is a free healthcare system for children... "they are so precious"... plus great children's charities like St Judes Hospital, Ronald McDonald house, and Shriner's hospital, make a wish foundation, among many others that do fantastic pro-bono work for children.

 

[haze crazy]

Well lets see. We get attacked on our soil in 2001. Not since, unless you want to count the whack job at fort Hood which I do not. On the other hand every second the sun shines on Ground Zero or the Pentagon, and or the field in PA it is night in the sandbox and our forces are either on the attack or planning one. We kill them all day and night, if that's your version of loosing...... please explain what winning looks like to you.

That's an easy one!

WINNING = WORLD PEACE

 

[haze crazy]

Listen people ...I really do have to feed MY starving children now. It was real.....