Hazemania

[Sideshow-Bob]

@ maree: thanks for posting that quote, much appreciated

So after reading what mustafunk and maree posted i felt compelled to do some reading on the topic of haze. I have read the "questions for sam the skunkman on orginal haze" before, but read the whole thing again, as well as some other threads. Ouch that hurt! too much negativity! but it was also very informative and reminded me of things i had forgotten and taught me things i didn't know yet...

a lot of what we talk about here has been covered in depth (big surprise) and there are differing opinions on the relation of the various haze lines, here some quotes to illustrate these standpoints:

Anyway, the line I work with (and Positronic, and Flyingdutchmen, and Seedsman, and everybody else who's ever described/offered "Original Haze", including this early description from Sam), and what Mr. Nice works with, are two different animals - but both good imo.

source: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=4319593&postcount=35

Well since I had the chance of sampling Dubi's ot1 Hazes , and most of the different phenos , I have to say that there was a strong resemblance between them and the Haze I m familiar with from MNS and other sources. Real HazeBros Haze or not.. , it looked , smelled , smoked and tasted similar. I wonder what Shanti would think about the ot1 Hazes too after sampling them. I liked them myself but I cant really judge them till I grow em myself and I have yet to grow 'Sams' pure Haze versions.

source: http://www.mrnice.nl/forum/18662-post18.html

I think that OT1´s and TomHill´s Hazes are basically the same,but worked in a different way,just my opinion

source: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=1541042&postcount=121

If you grow and smoke it you will recognize it as a Haze line. Aromas, type of effect, traits found... but I cannot say where these lines come from or if they are a segregation of old Haze jobs or Sam jobs... but definatelly upon my opinion there must be a common old point where they came from.

source: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=1537918&postcount=47





Seems like the controversy is not only whether othaze and original haze are genetically related, but even whether different seeds provided by sam have different genetic make up. It gets even more complicated as we go back further. Where did sam get his haze seeds? From the haze brothers who originally created "haze". I always took that to mean that he had access to the actual seeds / seed line, but in the article that bigherb published in TY (and that sam suposedly confirmed as being accurate) a different picture is painted:

Now, Sam the skunk man has without doubt brought original haze stock to Holland, but in exactly what form, pure or hybrid, is unknown. G said that he did not give SAMS haze stock, But acknowledges he did live on the block and did some trimming. Therefore there is the possibility he collected seed working with, or smoking the varieties.

source: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=4785776&postcount=1011

the wording "collected" in the following quote seems to fit in:

I have not worked Original Haze as much as tried to save it, I collected as much seed as I could in the early 70's grew them and did free pollinations and did minimal selection to ensure I saved as many genes as I could.

source: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=1539868&postcount=110

It also seems pretty clear that haze rather quickly became a generic term for (poly)hybrid sativa lines (or narrow leaf drug type indica for the smarty pants - i think sativa is a fine term, worked well for the underground farmers for decades, everybody knows what is meant within the context, language is descriptive not normative - might seem irrelevant for our topic but really isn't ). The fact that sam called his haze "original haze" implies that there were other non original hazes.

this quote from "origins of the species" by Robert Clarke where he calls big sur holy weed a haze also ilustrates this point:

...
The most interesting of these is S.A.G.E., which is a Haze-based variety from the coastal mountains of Big Sur, California.
...

source: http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/4721.html

The post of Oldtimer that maree posted also reafirms this.

So at the point that sam collected his haze seeds there probably were already a variety of haze lines in existence, but he and other growers from santa cruz are sure they were the first to use the haze term and thus have the "original haze". But even though they may have coined the term haze, they had no control over how language is used and haze became a category rather than a strain-name. Remember: language is descriptive not normative, if it were normative, things would be straight forward: only plants that are directly descended from the original hybrid would be haze. But as it is descriptive, any plant that expressed certain traits could be and was called haze.

Does that mean that haze = sativa polyhybrid? In my opinion not, the way we use the term "haze" today i would not use it to describe destroyer or reina madre for example (both 100% sativa poly hybrids) They do not share these "certain traits" that make a haze haze.

So what are the traits that make a haze a haze? To define that we would have to observe the traits found in the plants that are with certainity derived from the original hybrid (i.e. every haze that came to us through sam in one way or another), but even here we have controversy:

Anyway, the line I work with (and Positronic, and Flyingdutchmen, and Seedsman, and everybody else who's ever described/offered "Original Haze", including this early description from Sam), and what Mr. Nice works with, are two different animals - but both good imo.

which might be explained by this quote:

OHaze was fairly consistant as F1's but by the time it was f5 and above it segregated out into many different related lines.

so are hazy traits only those found in the f1? or everything that can be found in the different lines derived from the original hybrid? the common usage of language tells us that the latter one is true. A lot of people view incense / frankincense aromas as an essential haze trait:

... certain common traits I observed compared to the other known Haze lines...

My point was I dont know where these seeds originated (said before posible "segregation or offspring of") but looks, tastes, smells and hits like what we know like haze. Wish I could know and find line reponsable of such inciense aroma if it was just one!.. never knew exactly where should have come from... colombia? nepal? thailand? but only found it in all these what we call Haze lines

best

source: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=2288931&postcount=31

sams descriptions of the original hybrid does not include this trait:

Fruity, Sweet & Sour, Rootbeer, Cola, Chocolate, very /resinous hashy smell and taste.

source: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=1539868&postcount=110

whereas another description mentions the incense smell:

Later, a more accurate description of each variety was given. The first being Magenta, which those in the inner-circle knew as the “Rootbeer pheno``, and the rest of the world knew as “purple haze``. Then, there was the “Gold`` which was known to carry musky sandlewood and pine traits. In actuality it smelt like catpiss late in flower, and before a cure. “Blue`` and “silver`` were of the Spicy Sweet peppery type, and silver was considered strongest- all of them had a deep rich lingering after-taste.

source: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=4785776&postcount=1011

It seems that incense / frankincense aromas were more of a recessive trait in the original hybrid but got more pronounced in some of the lines that developed from there.

It's interesting that it is so hard to pin down which traits contribute to classify a plant as haze, while everybody who has grown haze will recognize it immediately as such. A testament to the usefullness of "haze" as a category, imo.

What to make of this all?

Well, the normative approach (i.e. only what came though sam is really haze) won't ever work as there is a realistic possibility that others have saved / used seeds from the same source (hundreds of kilos were sold). Furthermore haze is used for other plants for decades too, so there's no point in insisting that they are really not haze because collective usage of language has made them "haze".

For me that means that there is absolutely no point in arguing about these stories (none of which is the truth - truth will always escape the mantle of language), the only productive discussion for me could be to define what traits are considered "hazy" and how essential their presence in a plant is for calling the plant "haze" and how this positions a plant to the original hybrid.

honestly after seeing so much superfluous fighting in the haze threads i think i should have avoided the haze name alltogether and called my plants "altar boy's choice" hybrids

 

[Sideshow-Bob]

So let's let the plants do the talking, their tone is much sweeter
Tijuana x PHP#7 flowered for 98 days:

good vibes!

 

[ElRubio]

Very very nice input "Altar Boy" hehehe

No. Your tone got me amazed dude...almost hypnotized. Those description, and the job behind to gather all those quotes, is truly fantastic. And your approach to the theme (taking into account the language, etc...) is extremely accurate in my honest opinion.

To sum up, i´ve enjoyed every damn word and line you wrote bro. I can almost chew the haze traits from here...

Peace bro!

 

[Sideshow-Bob]

Very very nice input "Altar Boy" hehehe

No. Your tone got me amazed dude...almost hypnotized. Those description, and the job behind to gather all those quotes, is truly fantastic. And your approach to the theme (taking into account the language, etc...) is extremely accurate in my honest opinion.

To sum up, i´ve enjoyed every damn word and line you wrote bro. I can almost chew the haze traits from here...

Peace bro!

thanks for the kind words friend

i think the value of a linguistic approach to this haze controversy lies in the fact, that it offers a perspective were more than one truth is possible.

It makes it possible that the haze brothers coined the haze term and that this haze had a specific genetic makeup (Mexican x Columbian) x Kerala) x Thai) and yet it's just as correct to say

Haze, like Mullumbimby Madness, had no set makeup, just the blending of sativas over time.

source: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=2289256&postcount=41

because of the way that collective language developed. Sam calling his line "original haze" seems like a good solution that honours both (possible) truths

 

[RandyCalifornia]

count me in with Rubio, great post Sideshow-Bob! That took a lot of work and thought, I don't know how you keep it all together with a stash like you post pics of.
I want to add my 2¢, not that I'm any expert or anything, far from it. I was never exposed to the name Haze till very late, 1994, even though I grew up in the SF Bay Area very near to where Haze was born.
In the late 60's and early 70's myself and all the friends I had that were overcome enough by the beauty and mystery of the sacred herb, were working on how could we produce enough of our own stash so we did not have to go through the dry times or just be smoking shitty Mexican brick. So every time a shipment from a far off place came in, we were there to sample the herb and collect seeds. We were so impressed with some of the varieties we saw and tasted and so moved by the high that we threw caution to the wind and defied babylon and all it's dangers and grew our own. I remember all the special varieties that people I knew smuggled back from Mexico and all the big shipments that came in from Thailand, Jamaica and Colombia. We already had experience from growing the Mexican varieties that came first, Oaxacan, Michoacan, Gurrero and others, we knew we could get some of those finished early enough to be really good in our great climate. The Colombian everybody loved so much and the Thai that blew people away would never finish to be like the buds that came in. So the main goal was to find Mexican plants that finished outdoors and crossing them with the even more desired strains like the Colombian and Thai and find plants that had the best qualities of both and still finish before winter came and be really good. This work was all done with sativa's(NLD), Indica's(WLD) never showed up in my world till the late 70's. All we knew of indica was, slabs of BlackAfghani Hash, Napalese Temple Balls and Pakistani Hash(which many could have been derived from sativa's as well).
So I think there were a lot of people with the same goal as the Santa Cruz growers of Haze, not as organized or as $$$ oriented, we just wanted a great stash, just like now.
Could that have contributed to there being many varieties which eventually ended up being called Haze because of their common characteristics?

 

[Sideshow-Bob]

count me in with Rubio, great post Sideshow-Bob! That took a lot of work and thought, I don't know how you keep it all together with a stash like you post pics of.
I want to add my 2¢, not that I'm any expert or anything, far from it. I was never exposed to the name Haze till very late, 1994, even though I grew up in the SF Bay Area very near to where Haze was born.
In the late 60's and early 70's myself and all the friends I had that were overcome enough by the beauty and mystery of the sacred herb, were working on how could we produce enough of our own stash so we did not have to go through the dry times or just be smoking shitty Mexican brick. So every time a shipment from a far off place came in, we were there to sample the herb and collect seeds. We were so impressed with some of the varieties we saw and tasted and so moved by the high that we threw caution to the wind and defied babylon and all it's dangers and grew our own. I remember all the special varieties that people I knew smuggled back from Mexico and all the big shipments that came in from Thailand, Jamaica and Colombia. We already had experience from growing the Mexican varieties that came first, Oaxacan, Michoacan, Gurrero and others, we knew we could get some of those finished early enough to be really good in our great climate. The Colombian everybody loved so much and the Thai that blew people away would never finish to be like the buds that came in. So the main goal was to find Mexican plants that finished outdoors and crossing them with the even more desired strains like the Colombian and Thai and find plants that had the best qualities of both and still finish before winter came and be really good. This work was all done with sativa's(NLD), Indica's(WLD) never showed up in my world till the late 70's. All we knew of indica was, slabs of BlackAfghani Hash, Napalese Temple Balls and Pakistani Hash(which many could have been derived from sativa's as well).
So I think there were a lot of people with the same goal as the Santa Cruz growers of Haze, not as organized or as $$$ oriented, we just wanted a great stash, just like now.
Could that have contributed to there being many varieties which eventually ended up being called Haze because of their common characteristics?

View Image

thanks randy

i love to listen to recollections from that era, it was a unique time and place to experience life and it seems like you and your friends knew how to make the best of it!

Could that have contributed to there being many varieties which eventually ended up being called Haze because of their common characteristics?

and i think that one hit the nail right on the head!

in biology we call this convergent evolution, i bet there is haze that resulted from convergent evolution as well as haze that resulted from a mix of parallel and convergent evolution (sharing some but not all ancestors)

 

[Mustafunk]

Great posts as usual Sideshow-Bob, Altar, Randy, Rubio and all the hazefellas around. It's funny but I was also re-reading the Questions on the Original Haze thread yesterday and even the True Origins of Haze at MrNice forum too.... just after all this haze conversation, I got hungry about refreshing my memory on this matter and remembering all those memorable quotes from Sam, Tom and many others on Haze history and even breeding and growing advice with them.

I must say that I'm no haze expert, neither I have decades of exprience to have lived those times from back in the days, so all the information I have is based on what I've been reading, researching and even gathering through conversations with other experienced friends. But I've also been told more than once about calling "hazes" to all those long flowering tropical, narrow leafed and crazy strains. A few breeders did this in the past, when they referred to certain strains as hazes, even when they had nothing to do with the Santa Cruz trademark. Even in a recent conversation with Charlie CBG we discussed that thing. With the time I had to understand that Haze is not only a strain name, nor a smell or flavour (incense?) but a whole feeling and vibe lol.

Whether this is accurate or not, I would love to know about it. For example why the so called Haze Bros were nicknamed in that way? Maybe they were already using the term haze for those kind of strains? Could it have been common knowledge among the oldschool conoisseurs at that era?

On the other hand, we have the Haze Bros legacy, the Original Haze and the haze trademark. This clearly existed and it's probably the most widespread terminology when it comes to this matter. No doubt that if we choose this approach, only the O. Haze and all related strains and hybrids could be named as hazes. But well, should be this the only possible approach?

I would love to have my fella Pyratth aka Corsaire around (Vibes bro!), who did probably the craziest haze project I ever seen here, growing many several haze seeds from different batches and sources side by side. I'm sure he could share interesting informations and conclussions on all this strains from his experience. You can enjoy the beautiful pictures and growlog here: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=244221 (some of the pics are gone though).

Anyway and leaving the nomenclature aside, we all agree that we love the JEISS (as we transcribe it in spanish lol):

Some pics from OT1 Haze X CBG's Meao Thai from the past season, trained and forced:

Dream about a reefer, five feet long.
Gotta be from Haze, but not too strong.
You'll be high but not for long,
If you love the haze just sing this song!

Haze take lotta time,
Haze will go for ages.
If your haze is legit,
it gotta make you crazy.

You can get it from Sam
and you can buy it at Seedsman.
No doubt they will look smilar,
cause all came from the same source.

Try OT1's for the exotic or Tom's one for the compact.
Whichever haze you may choose, it'll be conoisseur's most loved stash!

Vibes guys and bring it on!

 

[Koondense]

What a nice thread

 

[rik78]

Mustafunk, I love reading your post, any of them, they are GOLD!!!

plus you are a poet!

 

[Sideshow-Bob]

Dream about a reefer, five feet long.
Gotta be from Haze, but not too strong.
You'll be high but not for long,
If you love the haze just sing this song!

Haze take lotta time,
Haze will go for ages.
If your haze is legit,
it gotta make you crazy.

You can get it from Sam
and you can buy it at Seedsman.
No doubt they will look smilar,
cause all came from the same source.

Try OT1's for the exotic or Tom's one for the compact.
Whichever haze you may choose, it'll be conoisseur's most loved stash!

Vibes guys and bring it on!

I’ll tag along and chant the song
of flowers shiny, sharp and strong

from the moment to infinity
haze can give to you serenity

a road to go yourself and see
what’s behind the doors of life’s mystery

the stars align, their dust takes shapes
of rocks and plants and dancing apes

what really counts lies in the haze
well hidden from the monkey’s gaze

 

[Elmer Bud]

G`day SSB

Been enjoying the show .
I`d like to show a gem handed to me by a good friend

G13 / Hz A x La Nina #2 .

Thanks for sharin

EB .

 

[maree]

Mr. Sideshow - your enthusiasm for the haze is matched only by your diplomacy concerning it.

Would you - and other readers of this thread - mind helping me out with some advice, please? I've been wanting to venture into the world of hazes and sativas for a while and have been mulling over what to grow for some time. On the haze-influenced side of things, what would you suggest for a micro-growing (190 watts) newbie?

I'd like something that would finish within twelve weeks (excluding the veg period) but would be prepared for it to go to 14. I'm looking for these effects, or any combination of them; euphoria, mind-expansion, contentment, giggles, creativity, acuity of perception, tumbling day-dreams, warmth, compassion and sociability.

I'll post the more generalised sativa question in a more appropriate thread so if you guys can help me out with haze advice, it would be much appreciated. Have to make the decision carefully cos I'm a micro-smoker as well as grower so anything I grow is my companion for a good few months.

P.s. yield is not an issue, only the quality of the high, which I hope would lean very strongly towards the hazy-side of things.

 

[meltybubble]

I have seen a lot try to word what you did bob, they mostly give up as someone will come on with a conflicting story, great job!

 

[LowFalutin]

Nepal Haze is on sale at the Bou' for 23.30 euro at the moment...

https://www.seedboutique.com/catalo...d=643&osCsid=b15cfa610d0785b43963f89045fb35c6

Ace description:
Highland Nepalese x Green Haze. 100% Sativa Hybrid Nepal Haze is a new non stable hybrid.
It results from pollinating our best highland Nepalese mothers with a Green Haze male.
The main and most frequent expression of this hybrid is a more vigorous and high yielding version of Nepalese highland:
fast flowering sativas with excellent adaptability, generous yield and clean and euphoric effect.
There's a recessive phenotype, less usual, with a strong haze influence, that tends to grow bigger
and requires longer flowering times and warmer environment.

CBG description:
Nepal Haze is made with one of best Oldtimer Haze males and 8 different Nepal Highland females.
Relative variability for a unique and old school cross.

I've got a squat Nep-leaner, that looks like it'll finish in the 9-12 week range;
and a taller OTH-leaner that looks like it'll be a 12-14 weeker.
(they're both at 4 weeks of 11/13 now)
You can't go wrong whichever way they lean...


If you can handle longer flowering times, then Ace's Green or Purple Haze x Thai may be a good choice.
Green Haze x Thai's on sale for 18.63 euro on the Bou' at the mo'.

https://www.seedboutique.com/catalo..._id=2&osCsid=b15cfa610d0785b43963f89045fb35c6


...and maybe ask the Bou to include Sam's Original (Thai) Haze x Skunk#1 as freebies...

https://www.seedboutique.com/catalo...=1051&osCsid=b15cfa610d0785b43963f89045fb35c6


saludos

Would you - and other readers of this thread - mind helping me out with some advice, please? I've been wanting to venture into the world of hazes and sativas for a while and have been mulling over what to grow for some time. On the haze-influenced side of things, what would you suggest for a micro-growing (190 watts) newbie?

I'd like something that would finish within twelve weeks (excluding the veg period) but would be prepared for it to go to 14. I'm looking for these effects, or any combination of them; euphoria, mind-expansion, contentment, giggles, creativity, acuity of perception, tumbling day-dreams, warmth, compassion and sociability.

I'll post the more generalised sativa question in a more appropriate thread so if you guys can help me out with haze advice, it would be much appreciated. Have to make the decision carefully cos I'm a micro-smoker as well as grower so anything I grow is my companion for a good few months.

P.s. yield is not an issue, only the quality of the high, which I hope would lean very strongly towards the hazy-side of things.

 

[Sideshow-Bob]

Hi everybody

Sorry for the long absence, i've been awfully busy in the past months and had no time for the forums...

Elmer, that bud looks incredibly delicious! How was the taste? I would love to try some La Nina (or even better pure MM) and the oldschool hazes sound like a treat of course too - couldn't see where crossing the two could go wrong... thanks a lot for sharing

So today i searched through some old stuff and came across the last bits of Kali Mist #26 x (Purple Haze x Panama). The cross turned out fantastic and i think they might be the best seeds i have ever made, the herb was gone quite fast, i just couldn't help myself and always reached for it despite all the other treats that were in the stash at the time.

The bits i just vaped were cured for more than 6 months now though and of course were even better now. I vaped two samples.

The first was my all around favorite, really f*in tasty, a lot of incense with a bit of burgundry taste added by the PHP, nice up-high, clear and euphoric not the least bit racy, not the strongest but strong enough and little to no ceiling, no burn out after the session. Perfect everyday herb, makes me smile a lot

The second was the longest flowering one (100+), it has a sharp metallic smell and taste with a strong cerebral/soaring high. Made me feel like there is something growing out of the center of my forehead bursts of energy, opening up the head in all directions, expanding, very colorful, slightly racy but not tachycardic. Nice herb but i take incense over metallic everyday

Here's a pic:

the project itself has moved on since, as of now we're in the process of selecting from: Oaxacan x Punto Rojo (aka red snake, created by charlie garcia), Green Haze x Thai (ACE), Nevilles Haze (Mr. Nice), Honululu Haze (Sagarmatha), Panama (ACE) - they are at thirty-something days of flower...

So far i'm most impressed by the oaxacan x punto rojo, very vigorous, a lot of resin, that is of a very soft and oily texture, incredibly sweet smelling, no skunky smells. There is one that stands out and is my favorite plant in a while...

The panamas are fast and produce great amounts of resin but are not as exquisite smelling as the red snakes (still nice though!)

i'm surprised by how similar the nevilles haze is to the original haze (tfd) though i expect a much better final product, but the similarity of the smell is surprising for me!

there is a fast flowering and a long flowering green haze x thai, the long flowering one is as tropical as it gets, the shorter one reminds a little bit of the destroyer (meo thai?)

the honululu haze is not hazy but has a really nice smell. a lot like i hoped the molokai frost would be. sweet-sour with a fantastic floral note, can't wait to try it, smells exotic (hawaian) for sure.

there is also some purple haze # 23 x punto rojo pollen that i'm not sure yet what exactly to hit up with, thinking of nevilles haze x (ph x pr) but not sure yet. I have some nevilles haze pollen too, should make for some interesting new combinations!

positive vibrations to all you ganja lovers out there!

 

[sweet-emotion]

count me in with Rubio, great post Sideshow-Bob! That took a lot of work and thought, I don't know how you keep it all together with a stash like you post pics of.
I want to add my 2¢, not that I'm any expert or anything, far from it. I was never exposed to the name Haze till very late, 1994, even though I grew up in the SF Bay Area very near to where Haze was born.
In the late 60's and early 70's myself and all the friends I had that were overcome enough by the beauty and mystery of the sacred herb, were working on how could we produce enough of our own stash so we did not have to go through the dry times or just be smoking shitty Mexican brick. So every time a shipment from a far off place came in, we were there to sample the herb and collect seeds. We were so impressed with some of the varieties we saw and tasted and so moved by the high that we threw caution to the wind and defied babylon and all it's dangers and grew our own. I remember all the special varieties that people I knew smuggled back from Mexico and all the big shipments that came in from Thailand, Jamaica and Colombia. We already had experience from growing the Mexican varieties that came first, Oaxacan, Michoacan, Gurrero and others, we knew we could get some of those finished early enough to be really good in our great climate. The Colombian everybody loved so much and the Thai that blew people away would never finish to be like the buds that came in. So the main goal was to find Mexican plants that finished outdoors and crossing them with the even more desired strains like the Colombian and Thai and find plants that had the best qualities of both and still finish before winter came and be really good. This work was all done with sativa's(NLD), Indica's(WLD) never showed up in my world till the late 70's. All we knew of indica was, slabs of BlackAfghani Hash, Napalese Temple Balls and Pakistani Hash(which many could have been derived from sativa's as well).
So I think there were a lot of people with the same goal as the Santa Cruz growers of Haze, not as organized or as $$$ oriented, we just wanted a great stash, just like now.
Could that have contributed to there being many varieties which eventually ended up being called Haze because of their common characteristics?

View Image

Hey Randy, interesting words and great pic...is it from the '70's?...those leaves look really sharp...as some Green Hazes dubi posted in the Oldtimer's Haze thread...

greetings

 

[bigherb]

count me in with Rubio, great post Sideshow-Bob! That took a lot of work and thought, I don't know how you keep it all together with a stash like you post pics of.
I want to add my 2¢, not that I'm any expert or anything, far from it. I was never exposed to the name Haze till very late, 1994, even though I grew up in the SF Bay Area very near to where Haze was born.
In the late 60's and early 70's myself and all the friends I had that were overcome enough by the beauty and mystery of the sacred herb, were working on how could we produce enough of our own stash so we did not have to go through the dry times or just be smoking shitty Mexican brick. So every time a shipment from a far off place came in, we were there to sample the herb and collect seeds. We were so impressed with some of the varieties we saw and tasted and so moved by the high that we threw caution to the wind and defied babylon and all it's dangers and grew our own. I remember all the special varieties that people I knew smuggled back from Mexico and all the big shipments that came in from Thailand, Jamaica and Colombia. We already had experience from growing the Mexican varieties that came first, Oaxacan, Michoacan, Gurrero and others, we knew we could get some of those finished early enough to be really good in our great climate. The Colombian everybody loved so much and the Thai that blew people away would never finish to be like the buds that came in. So the main goal was to find Mexican plants that finished outdoors and crossing them with the even more desired strains like the Colombian and Thai and find plants that had the best qualities of both and still finish before winter came and be really good. This work was all done with sativa's(NLD), Indica's(WLD) never showed up in my world till the late 70's. All we knew of indica was, slabs of BlackAfghani Hash, Napalese Temple Balls and Pakistani Hash(which many could have been derived from sativa's as well).
So I think there were a lot of people with the same goal as the Santa Cruz growers of Haze, not as organized or as $$$ oriented, we just wanted a great stash, just like now.
Could that have contributed to there being many varieties which eventually ended up being called Haze because of their common characteristics?

View Image

I think micro climates play a huge Role that many people dont consider when thinking of outdoor growing . The first Haze was reportedly grown in the SC mountains


One Thing people forget about Haze an the Debate of which lines come from which parents .Is the Punto Rojo which comes from colombia is Haze an from this she was crossed an mixed in all Haze we know today .The post below again confirms the story i was told an have shared

Quote below from Sams

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=6304723&postcount=1208

I gave seeds to both the Original Haze growers in 1972 and also later, One used Thai and S Indian with his Haze in the very early 70's. The other grew the Thai but decided it was not as good as Haze and did not use it. The very first Original Haze was a crop of both green, lime green, purple, and other colors, all from Columbian, after that I am not sure and anyone that says they are, is just fooling themselves. One of the Haze growers RL told me a different story then the Original Haze guy that did it first up in the SC mountains and then in the next few years moved down to right by my house, less then a block away, the other Haze grower RL, who put out the OH poster lived a block the other side of my house. I had a friend "J" that used to help the SC mountain Haze grower, he was also a good friend of RCC, he told me all about the early Original Haze I never saw, as I got back to SC in early 1972. They both told me different stories, I did not care so much it was the Cannabis I was interested in.
Sacred Seeds never tried to stablize or improve the Original Haze, our only goal was to save as many of the Original Haze genes as I could so I used as many Original Haze females and males as I could. I think I could create an all Original Haze improved line but I would need to grow thousands and thousands of plants to find a few keeper females, the males would require to be transformed into females to be screened as keepers, and/or by progeney trials that would be best. I would have done it already except that Original Haze is a lousey Dry Sift Hash maker and I hate to use so much space to do the work right. If I don't someone will....
I really do not like Original Haze hybrids that use an WLD Indica to make powerful Hazes, they are strong but often lack the pure Sativa high the I prefer. It is easy though.
If done right with just haze taste and effects, and I can't tell it is a hybrid and it is strong as the Haze was, I would like it I bet. Even the Purple Haze from back in the 70's was not really my choice, they did seem a bit stronger then the greens, limes, and blues, but they also had a more narcotic effect to me. They were the prettiest not the best, to me.
-SamS

The Major thing people forget is Colombia Lies on the equator . Folk always associate the long Flowering Haze phenos with Thai well ,Thailand does not touch the equator . The CBG Punto Rojo lines come from Both Santa marta an Tolima parents .Tolima is about 3 N of the equator


I recall Recent beautiful pics of your Red snake .The common thought was Oaxcan contributed the foxtails .Have you ever seen the Punto Rojo grown by Juanddeath ?(in Colombia If i recall correct) . This is a Astonishing truly gorgeous plant .


https://www.google.com/#q=cannabisonline+ver+tema+punto+rojo


the first link is the thread an source .For some reason my computer cant open it but my phone can .


BTW that Lumbo looks very similar to Colombian Gold from Gage green

Also Apologies for the late reply ,i was banned at the time of the post


1luvbigherb

 

[bigherb]

Sideshowbob

Nice too see you back in action

I like the lineup ,The Red snake should have Gems. I think it would be interesting in your breeding project aswell

I was Really hopin to See that JF x PHP in action . The alter boys choice

Is this your first Nevilles Haze run ?

The Honululu Haze sounds interesting .Couldnt find any info on the Lineage any idea of the parents ?.Funny how they mention Nevil but nothing about the strains blood line

there is also some purple haze # 23 x punto rojo pollen that i'm not sure yet what exactly to hit up with, thinking of nevilles haze x (ph x pr) but not sure yet. I have some nevilles haze pollen too, should make for some interesting new combinations!

Was this PH x Pr pollen gifted ? or is it the PH x Red snake pollen ?

I think that cross sounds great .I also think the NH pollen should hit Red snake an Alter boys choice


Great to see ya back sorry for all the questions ,but ya got me excited for you lol


1luvbigherb

 

[Sideshow-Bob]

Sideshowbob

Nice too see you back in action

I like the lineup ,The Red snake should have Gems. I think it would be interesting in your breeding project aswell

I was Really hopin to See that JF x PHP in action . The alter boys choice

Is this your first Nevilles Haze run ?

The Honululu Haze sounds interesting .Couldnt find any info on the Lineage any idea of the parents ?.Funny how they mention Nevil but nothing about the strains blood line



Was this PH x Pr pollen gifted ? or is it the PH x Red snake pollen ?

I think that cross sounds great .I also think the NH pollen should hit Red snake an Alter boys choice


Great to see ya back sorry for all the questions ,but ya got me excited for you lol


1luvbigherb

thx for welcoming me back

No worries, i'm still rockin the jf x php. Just vaped some, it made the whole room smell like a catholic church it tastes like antique wood, i have an old desk that i inherited from my grandma, the smell i get from this old wood is spot on the taste i get from it (+ burgundry)

but to be honest i prefer the kali x php, the vapor/smoke from it is not as dry as from the jf x php and it produces very thick and extremely tasty vapor, mouth coating flavor that lasts for a long time. it's not as spot on frankincense as the jf x php but more a mix of various types of incense. too bad i didn't keep a cutting of the plant lol but i have a lot of the seeds left and most of them were pretty similar...

i'm very excited about the red snakes, they remind me of the spicy zamal phenos which i really liked. but the snakes are more refined looking and smelling.

it's the first time with nevilles haze (or any Mr.Nice) so i am almost as excited about the nevilles as i am about the snakes. unfortunately i had a lot of males, so only 2 fems from half a pack (9), but i seperated the 3 best males to harvest their pollen - so nothing's lost one of the female plants is what i would call an "average" NH, so pretty stretchy and hazy. The other one was a laggard (had 3 which grew very slow and almost runtish, -> inbreeding depression?) but she has started to stretch now that she is in flower and she will get the chance to prove herself...

As for the Honululu Haze, i bought the seeds hoping she might be a S1 of the Hawaian Haze cut that is around in Amsterdam, but i don't think so unfortunately... but whatever, it smells amazing so i can get over the false naming. i completely agree that the descrition is worthless, they also use the same picture for something they call A1 Haze, which might be the same or not... hard to take sagarmatha serious tbh (lol pun was not intended, but fits )

the ph x pr pollen is from a male that i got from charlie's seeds, no female unfortunately but i still have a few left hopefully i'll find a nice girl too.

cool to see that the altar boy's choice name stuck, i thought it funny in the moment i wrote it yeah i'll hit up the jf x php with nh for sure, same as the jf and the jf bx1. the jf bx1 i kept has a clearer up-high than the mother while maintaining the delicious flavour (lemony, creamy, incense, pine/cedar) but i'm sure there are even better ones to befound in the bx1 seeds and am hoping to come around to try these again eventually.

i've missed the haze talks

good vibes!

 

[Sideshow-Bob]

p.s. as the honululu is not hazy i dusted her with NH today, so maybe i will get my hawaian haze after all