Haskel pneumatic refrigerant pumps

[Tstar]

Hee, hee, hee, good job!

Siskayou Sam had his freezers higher and used gravity feed to siphon coolant to his storage tank barrel, and a pump to pump it back up to the freezer.

You might put your heat exchangers in an elevated pot, so they were self draining, with a pump to supply the pot with coolant from the freezers, and a gravity drain to return the coolant. Controlled by a float switch.

We built a riser made of sealed 4x4's on a -30c freezer so the coils have room to sit immersed in an inhibited pg bath sitting on top of our recovery tank. this fully drains the coils and works well. Our extractor is a custom built soak style, capable of processing over 100lb in a day. This requires us to recover over 50 lb of R600 at a time. By the end of the recovery our vessel is in deep vacuum. At that point the dual stage haskel works well for us. We use just enough heat to keep the gas moving and we keep it under 37 c in the end.

We ordered a recirculating chiller capable of -120 c when it arrives we will hang counter-flow coils above the system and see if things speed up a bit with that configuration.

 

[Gray Wolf]

We built a riser made of sealed 4x4's on a -30c freezer so the coils have room to sit immersed in an inhibited pg bath sitting on top of our recovery tank. this fully drains the coils and works well. Our extractor is a custom built soak style, capable of processing over 100lb in a day. This requires us to recover over 50 lb of R600 at a time. By the end of the recovery our vessel is in deep vacuum. At that point the dual stage haskel works well for us. We use just enough heat to keep the gas moving and we keep it under 37 c in the end.

We ordered a recirculating chiller capable of -120 c when it arrives we will hang counter-flow coils above the system and see if things speed up a bit with that configuration.

Good idea! I ordered a couple more counter flow heat exchangers myself, but one got back ordered.

How many Watts or BTU of refrigeration capacity does it have at -120C?

We need to remove both the heat of vaporization and the heat of compression, as well as any conducted heat from the hot pump cylinder and heads, to return the butane to a liquid in the tank.

 

[gholladay]

We built a riser made of sealed 4x4's on a -30c freezer so the coils have room to sit immersed in an inhibited pg bath sitting on top of our recovery tank. this fully drains the coils and works well. Our extractor is a custom built soak style, capable of processing over 100lb in a day. This requires us to recover over 50 lb of R600 at a time. By the end of the recovery our vessel is in deep vacuum. At that point the dual stage haskel works well for us. We use just enough heat to keep the gas moving and we keep it under 37 c in the end.

We ordered a recirculating chiller capable of -120 c when it arrives we will hang counter-flow coils above the system and see if things speed up a bit with that configuration.

tstar,

Sounds pretty slick! so you have self draining coils sitting in the freezer on some risers? I'm a little confused by your description. Is your tank in the freezer too?

GH

 

[Tstar]

the riser is built up on the freezer so we could fit the tank in there with coils on top. Google Keezers for beer its like that. It just makes the freezer taller.

 

[Tstar]

Good idea! I ordered a couple more counter flow heat exchangers myself, but one got back ordered.

How many Watts or BTU of refrigeration capacity does it have at -120C?

We need to remove both the heat of vaporization and the heat of compression, as well as any conducted heat from the hot pump cylinder and heads, to return the butane to a liquid in the tank.

I guess I should say it's allegedly capable of -120 c. Since it's an Alibaba special you never know what your going to get. All the technical data we have is 20 liter capacity -120c 380 volt. Ordering from china is so hit or miss if it works out ill post the source, and give more stats when its in my hands.

 

[Gray Wolf]

Lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Some good news from a compressor requirement standpoint. The Haskel is rated at full performance at 100 psi and 40 scfm. A screw compressor gets about 4 scfm per horsepower, so it requires about a 10 hp compressor, most of which use three phase power.

Hee, hee, hee, the good news is that field testing shows that the Haskel only needs about 50 psi to do our job, and so the same 60 strokes a minute take about half as much compressed air, which means only about a ~6.25 hp are required, soooo a single phase 7 1/2 hp compressor is more than adequate.

 

[Tstar]

Looks great! Thanks for sharing.

The first production versions of the EXT420-2 have finally been built. I should have photo's up in the next day or so.

Thanks!

Dave

Any pics of the EXT420-2 yet?

 

[Gray Wolf]

Any pics of the EXT420-2 yet?

Here is their prototype test sled.

 

[gholladay]

Here is their prototype test sled.

Looks slick GW! I like the single valve setup!

GH

 

[gholladay]

So I've finally gotten my pump rigged up to run and I'm distillng some butane. My collection vessel is spiking around 12 while the pump is running. I have my pressure regulator set to 55 psi delivery to the haskel. I have a gate valve at the air inlet to the haskel that I control the flow with. If i open it even half way, my cycles per minute are WAY higher 60/ min. That sounds kinda slow to me.. what cycles per minute are you guys using? I have to have this valve waaaay closed down to get it to slow down to that slow.

GH

 

[Permacultuure]

60 knocks per minute to 30 knocks depending on what stage. I feel anything more than that and we're just ripping terps out. Just cuz it can don't mean it shud

 

[gholladay]

60 knocks per minute to 30 knocks depending on what stage. I feel anything more than that and we're just ripping terps out. Just cuz it can don't mean it shud

Thanks for the reply perma. I've been running around 60 cycles a minute, maybe a little higher. I like that rate a lot though. My recovery times are great right now. The run that used to take me about 2.5 hours with my RG6000 takes about 45 minutes on this machine

GH

 

[Gray Wolf]

60 knocks per minute to 30 knocks depending on what stage. I feel anything more than that and we're just ripping terps out. Just cuz it can don't mean it shud

Dave from Haskel provided the 60 cycle standard, but as an old machine designer, operator, and torturer, one becomes aware of harmonics, as we'uns twist a machines tail.

Harmonics are how we used to tell when to shift a ground pounder after a hard launch, when we didn't have a reliable tach, or before programmable ones, were far too busy trying to stay aimed downrange in one lane to watch one????

When operating the Haskel 59025-3 in single stage, I note that at around 60 cycles the pump is easy and relaxed, and begins to hammer as you increase the cycle rate. Hammer suggest shock, which typically shortens maintenance intervals.

The other thing that happens, is that the more stokes per minute, the more friction per minute and the greater the heat load that must be dissipated by the same unchanging fin area of the heads.

Dissipation rates do increase as the delta Temperature rises, but the fin surface area stays constant, as does the air flow across them, unless artificially controlled.

As the head, piston, and cylinder temperatures rise, the gas expands, lowering equivalent compression rates and raising recovery tank pressures, which slows down the actual equivalent recovery rates and shortens pump seal life.

 

[Gray Wolf]

Thanks for the reply perma. I've been running around 60 cycles a minute, maybe a little higher. I like that rate a lot though. My recovery times are great right now. The run that used to take me about 2.5 hours with my RG6000 takes about 45 minutes on this machine

GH

Hee, hee, hee,

 

[Permacultuure]

Dave from Haskel provided the 60 cycle standard, but as an old machine designer, operator, and torturer, one becomes aware of harmonics, as we'uns twist a machines tail.

Harmonics are how we used to tell when to shift a ground pounder after a hard launch, when we didn't have a reliable tach, or before programmable ones, were far too busy trying to stay aimed downrange in one lane to watch one????

When operating the Haskel 59025-3 in single stage, I note that at around 60 cycles the pump is easy and relaxed, and begins to hammer as you increase the cycle rate. Hammer suggest shock, which typically shortens maintenance intervals.

The other thing that happens, is that the more stokes per minute, the more friction per minute and the greater the heat load that must be dissipated by the same unchanging fin area of the heads.

Dissipation rates do increase as the delta Temperature rises, but the fin surface area stays constant, as does the air flow across them, unless artificially controlled.

As the head, piston, and cylinder temperatures rise, the gas expands, lowering equivalent compression rates and raising recovery tank pressures, which slows down the actual equivalent recovery rates and shortens pump seal life.

Its all based off harmonics for me, and you can definitely hear it whens she's working too hard. With haskel and HIS on board, regular maintenance is easily implemented.

I love that the pump can rip through solvent and be ran hard, or babied "low n slow" which I'm thinking will be best for us terp hounds

A cold trap set up behind the pump could possibly help me determine if we are pulling more terps at these faster rates. maybe next month

 

[Gray Wolf]

Its all based off harmonics for me, and you can definitely hear it whens she's working too hard. With haskel and HIS on board, regular maintenance is easily implemented.

I love that the pump can rip through solvent and be ran hard, or babied "low n slow" which I'm thinking will be best for us terp hounds

A cold trap set up behind the pump could possibly help me determine if we are pulling more terps at these faster rates. maybe next month

Pneumatic intensifiers do have their charms. Not only is their speed easily controlled, so is their output pressure and you can take them from full speed to full stall without breaking thangs.

With their exhaust aimed at the cooling fins, you can stick them places a fan cooled electric wouldn't survive in and they have a 100% duty cycle.

 

[Dave at Haskel]

Sorry I've been gone for so long. I was on vacation and then wrapped up in other business activities. Thanks Gray Wolf for putting the photos up. Below I have a couple of more photo's of the EXT420-2.

I watched this pump run a 1 pound batch using 12 pounds of butane. The pump removed the 12 pounds in about 24 minutes (1/2 a pound per minute) in single stage. Then the pump was switched to two-stage and it pulled a vacuum down to about 26" - 27" Hg (process was being done near sea level) in another minute or so.

Let me know if you have any questions or comments. It's great to be back! I'll try not to be gone for so long in the future.



Dave

 

[gholladay]

Dave,

Great results! Thanks for the update. That plumbing looks great and those process times are very fast. Could you say what the recovery bath and butane recovery tank temps were? I'm not getting nearly that fast of a recovery with my unit and I want to investigate why.

Was this using 100 psi inlet pressure? Also, what type of cooling coils after the pump were used?

GH

 

[sr_bho]

Hi,

I'm having to dismantal my 59025 pump because of polluted air that came from the compressor. (i have now put air filters between the 2).

Any tips and tricks that i should know or could help me? I only have the manual that came with it as reference.

Also is there an alternative grease for the 28442 lubricant? one that i could find in a normal hardware store.

Cheers

 

[Gray Wolf]

Dave may be on vacation, so I sent him an email alert.