H3ad goes Coco

[rickyjack9]

ive been a head coco style dripper a couple years, then experimented with the dreaded Epsom salts almost by accident. I dropped too much in and just ignored. weird the more I added the more the coco property lowered. nutrients did not lockout. the magnesium did coco properties weird. now overwater slowed growth. drying out was and is bad. lower runoff was the winner. those who ebb and flow in coco I bet get fewer buds. oxygen access due to lower runoff during drip time kept them eating and thriving about as good as dwc. I feel like Frankenstein discovering this.
DO NOT OVERWATER.....OXYGEN IS NEEDED
1. automate for small very small, 5% runoff per feed multi-drips as needed daily.
....somehow the magnesium supercharged the ecosystem. magnesium must not lock
....much out because everything seems available. plants took off. simply keep runoff at
....5% or even less. not sure why it works but only care was to keep showing min runoff
....each drip feed. im in 3 gal smarts. started with one once daily minute drip feed
....adjusting (those shutoff valves) to get observable runoff only. you be your own
.....Frankenstein from here but this doubled my yield, close to dwc. im gonna learn how
.....to post pics for evidence. im excited to show results. 3 gal smarts, 2 plants fill my
.....5 x 4 area, 1000w, perpetually and I couldn't be happier. im in Oregon. I clone in
.....straight clean coco. ive tried it all, i'll never abandon coco for a lot of reasons.
.....it beats my ebb and flows. feels like silk. roots perform perfect in coco.
.....I add 2-4 teaspoons of epsoms for freak show in 5 gal rez changes AFTER I add
.....everything else. then ph test it. 2 gal smarts did well, but 3 better and wont go back.
.....we all are students of growing this medicine. magnesium at weekly rez changes made
.....my day. PS my opinion cloning in coco required dome and NO MORE WATERING till
.....roots. (don't drown your clone!) love the halo drippers. ppm was by eye, progress
.....started at 300, 400, 500 600 max. 1 minute multidrips to attain 5% runoff always .
.....reached 6/day. plant ate water increasingly almost like a graph. just keep EVERY .
.....runoff greater than none and < 5% for almost dwc results. adjustments were fun..
.....you reap the rewards. I should write a book, double your coco yield. PS without the .
.....magnesium/Epsom yield was 33% less. oxygenated gain somehow. like forcefeeding
.....the plant?! dwc does that??

 

[rickyjack9]

VPD

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If you can keep your flower room above 70 degrees during the night cycle (& obviously during the day cycle as well), you can keep your rooms RH extremely high. As high as 99%. EVEN IN LATE FLOWER WITHOUT ANY MOLD DEVELOPING. Keeping your room above 70°F will prevent a mold spore, of any kind, from developing. If you want huge yields, get that room in the mid 80's during the on cycle and 70-80 degrees during the off cycle with RH between 80-99% . The environment will feel like a rainforest and your pants will get massive, without having PM or bud rot. I know this seems to go against what most ppl say but, trust me, this is a secret most growers won't tell ya once they figure it out. Make sure to supplement CO2 as well. Your plants will be using more CO2 in these conditions, due to rapid growth.

run at nite, add co2 burner, can accomplish all that.

 

[maimunji]

VPD

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If you can keep your flower room above 70 degrees during the night cycle (& obviously during the day cycle as well), you can keep your rooms RH extremely high. As high as 99%. EVEN IN LATE FLOWER WITHOUT ANY MOLD DEVELOPING. Keeping your room above 70°F will prevent a mold spore, of any kind, from developing. If you want huge yields, get that room in the mid 80's during the on cycle and 70-80 degrees during the off cycle with RH between 80-99% . The environment will feel like a rainforest and your pants will get massive, without having PM or bud rot. I know this seems to go against what most ppl say but, trust me, this is a secret most growers won't tell ya once they figure it out. Make sure to supplement CO2 as well. Your plants will be using more CO2 in these conditions, due to rapid growth.

run at nite, add co2 burner, can accomplish all that.

I don't think this is true I developed botritys even with 86°F with strong extractor and fans blowing buds. Even at night cycle temp is 80°F humidity is constantly 80%.

 

[Phases]

Yeah I sure wouldn't want my humidity at 99% no matter what. The upside you could clone without needed a dome...

 

[Jah Love]

RickyJacy - I'm in Oregon, is it possible to message you?

 

[Dr.Suess]

RickyJacy - I'm in Oregon, is it possible to message you?

You need 50 posts for private messaging

 

[dribbled]

.

 

[justiceman]

Just went through every page in the last couple days to brush up on my coco knowledge as I have had a 4 year break. I'm gonna start up soon again can't wait. Great read! Thanks H3ad! and thank you Jonezin for compiling a lot of the key notes!

I have read every single post he has made in this thread, a lot of it more than once. I took some notes that may help you, or maybe someone else from having to read every single post to get all the info you might need. I know some of it is repeated, but I have a really BAD headache right this minute for some reason, and I don't feel like editing all of this. Here are my notes. These are all posts that H3ad made throughout the thread:

"6/ml micro.......... 9/ml bloom

pre-treat the coco with 1/2 strength nutes

seedlings generally do not need to be fed for the first 10 to 14 days

I use 6ml/gallon GH flora micro and
9ml/gallon GH flora Bloom
1/2 strength for seedlings and freshly rooted clones
Full strength from the beginning of Veg until they begin bud formation
then
9ml/gallon GH flora bloom up until 2 weeks prior to harvest
Then plain water to finish.


You can drop the micro when stretch has completely stopped, and calyx production seems at it's peak... roughly 1/2 way through flowering depending on strain...


My yields are always higher when the containers never dry out. The 8 and 10 ounce plants are in 5 gal of coco.


"""""Originally Posted by Grat3fulh3ad
I use 6ml/gallon GH flora micro and
9ml/gallon GH flora Bloom

1/2 strength for seedlings and freshly rooted clones

Full strength from the beginning of Veg until they begin bud formation
then

9ml/gallon GH flora bloom up until 2 weeks prior to harvest

Then plain water to finish.
is pretty much the regimen I've settled into...
I'm running the 6/9 until the production of new calyx begins to slow... a couple of weeks into flower production on faster flowering strains, a bit longer for 70+ day flowerers... Some of the heavier finishers get the extra 3 ml/gal of bloom that last week... then 0/9 up until flush time...

I have been trying minor variations... upping the bloom during veg gave a bit of Mg/Ca lockout... Leaving out the micro too early looses bud mass... Leaving the micro in too long makes flushing more difficult... Not flushing long enough affects the quality of the flavor and burn... Watering with no runoff at all causes lockout and flushing issues late in flower... Watering with more than a tiny bit of runoff is a waste of nute, and environmentally irresponsible...

No matter what variations I've tried, I seem to end up right back just about where I am now..."""""


There is NO SUCH THING as too much water, only too little oxygen in the water. If there were any such thing as too much water DWC would not work.I will say it so there is no confusion...

Unless you are growing in DWC, you will ALWAYS need to make sure your media has adequate drainage. Stagnant water kills plants.



I soak the seeds in h2o until they sink, then put then into styrofoam egg carton cells (with one or two pinholes on the side close to the bottom) full of moist coco and as soon as they break ground I put them as close to the fluoros as I can without feeling heat. I like the styrofoam egg carton cells because they root up fast and prevent any water stress issues, and I feel like I'm recycling something, plus they reflect light well. as soon as they start growing regular leaves and being fed normal strength nute, I move them into small solo cups.
coco hydrated with nute.
water with ph adjusted tap until seed leaves begin to lighten and regular leaves begin to form, then a couple of 1/2 str feedings then once real leaves are growing transplant and feed regularly.


Those plants go in at about 18" tall and nearly that big across, LSTd, 3 plants by 6 plants with the 1K walking about 4 ft on a mover. Plant footprint is about 6ftx12ft. Plants get rotated so that every plant sits in the center row for a couple of days each week and the plants on the outside rows get 180'd every day.

The 2oz/per is with plants like ChemD, C99 and G33... I get slightly less with SourD, Trainwreck and kushes and the like, maybe 1.5...


1 gal coco per 2 ft of finished plant/roughly...


Damp coco for seedlings, damper coco for plants.



Once a plant is growing roots I water often.
Lots of peeps get great results letting it dry up, too.
At concentrations all the way up to full strength 6/9 I don't see build up being a potential problem unless you are keeping them in the same container for more than 120 days. At 80 or 90 you shouldn't have to worry.




I only flush for about 2 weeks, maybe a day or three longer depending...
I don't do a weekly schedule thingy, though... I generally watch my plants, since some go 9 weeks and some go 11... I feed like veg until the plant completely stops stretching and begins bud formation in earnest, then depending on the plant I will bump up the bloom for a week or two before cutting out the micro just about the time the calyx production begins to slow and budswell begins... I feed 0/9 up until 12-16 days before harvest and then go to water for the rest... If a plant does not look done yet when the day count is right I'll let if go a couple more...



I rinse the coco with physan.
Once the seeds pop through I run a drop or two of physan down the stem...

I mix at about 1.5 tsp/gal



I use physan to make sure sterile seedlings go into sterile coco.
Once they are up with seed leaves open gathering light,
I water them daily with pH 6 water for a week, then go to weak nute... when the seed leaves start to yellow I start to increase food...
I have never used a mat, but the room is climate controlled...

One other thing I do, that may be merely superstition but seems to hold true anecdotally, is to germ seeds only during a waxing moon... they seem healthier to me, but I have no hard data proving so...



when mites feed they inject enzymes into the plant which retard the flowering process, much like mosquitos inject anticoagulants when they bite...




clones are already sexually mature.
Plants from seed will usually not flower in 12/12 until they reach sexual maturity.
usually sometime between the 5th internode and the 11th or so, when they stop pairing and start alternating...




It will be useless for you to flower your plants which you grew from seed, until they reach sexual maturity. You will know when to flip them to 12/12 by the alternating internodes.





increasing watering will increase the rate at which new air is pulled into the medium.

overwatering is really a misnomer. it should be called under oxygenation. if overwatering were really possible then deep water culture wouldn't work.





H3ad,

Let me preface this post with what soo many other Grat3ful growers have already done...thank you soo much for helping to inform us who have neither the experience or senses to come up with on our own.

I tried to PM you to avoid clogging up this thread but for some reason cannot. And if I ask a question that has already been covered, please accept my apologies. The 24 pages of this thread was exhausting...especially when you get to the troll at the end.

1) It was said to flush the coco before using. Is this with plain water or 6/9 solution or a diluted strength?
plain water for transplanting cuttings or for seedlings, nute solution for transplanting established plants.
Quote:

2) Will this formula for coco work for most strains?
yup
Quote:

3) What is the environment you run in? Canopy temps, RH in veg and flower, day and night?
depends on the location, but I like to run with a canopy temp around 80F at 40%rh with dark temps dropping to 72 or so.
Quote:

4) My tap is usually around 7.4 pH and usually around 300-350ppm. Should I use RO only or a mix of tap/RO?
I'd try starting with a mix.
Quote:

5) Once you mix a batch of nutes, how long can it sit in the reservoir before you should dump and remix? I plan on handwatering to waste, and using a pump to constantly recirculate nutes in the reservoir between feedings.
I usually use everything I mix within a week
Quote:

6) You mentioned toward the end of the thread that you would prefer the "crouton" style coco. Would you still want to add some perlite or is the coarse coco coarse enough to add more air pockets?
I would like the coarse to mix in with the grounds. I have a friend in straight croutons right now and he is watering a lot... If I was running drippers I might try straight croutons...
Quote:

7) I have some clones that were rooted in rapid rooters, then started in Light Warrior in dixie cups and then transplanted to 6" pots in Roots Organics soil. Can you successfully transfer those to coco? I could take cuttings from those clones in the soil now and start fresh in coco if it would be more successful.
I have transplanted beer cups of pro-mix into coco with no issues, it should be fine.

I feed clones full strength from the time they're fully rooted onward.
When I transplant, I transplant into damp coco and skip a couple of days waterings, and then start watering regularly.

I recently had a couple of bad batches of coco and found a new source. Going to GH cocotek now, and it seems nice and fibrous.

I have used azamax with success on the gnats."

 

[RippinRayFB6]

Hi H3ad, i hope years later isnt to late. I am a new grower, and have been using your 6, 9 formula and supplementing with 5ml calimagic. It worked wonders through veg, but i started to see nutrient burn at about 30F. Nothing has chnaged except the amount of feeds per day. How do i correct this burn? is the 6,9,5 okay to follow still?

 

[dribbled]

30F?
I use this same formula, but I add calimagic only when it appears I need it.
I'm not an expert, but I'd bet Head would suggest halving the nutrients for awhile. Maybe back off on the calimagic, but I'm not sure. How far along are your plants?

 

[Miraculous Meds]

Hi H3ad, i hope years later isnt to late. I am a new grower, and have been using your 6, 9 formula and supplementing with 5ml calimagic. It worked wonders through veg, but i started to see nutrient burn at about 30F. Nothing has chnaged except the amount of feeds per day. How do i correct this burn? is the 6,9,5 okay to follow still?

I'd cut the calimag and I'm guessing u need to water more often. If the medium dries up too much, ur nutrient concentration rises to the point of causing burn. I've never needed any additive besides the 6/9 formula. U can use other things, but u dont need them to get top quality n yield. And it is possible they can throw ur npk ratio off n cause lock ups n burn.

Here's what straight 6/9 does for me.

 

[biobizz]

nice plants wow much love. at the time i dial in my coco coir really well and i pull arround 1-1,2g per watt minimum. but i am planing to change the scrog and want to grow bigger plants in coco/airpots in the future. also use vertical lights maybe
can u pls tell me how much u pull of these babes. like grams per wattage. and do u use 1000w or 600w?
also planing to cut down all my canna coir nutes and all other stuff to basic lucas formula cause the nutes are available and cheap here.

so u say u don´t use any additieves at all? no pk boosters? no root no humic acids no micro bacteria? no shit?

u don´t need ghe rippen either? just these 2 bottles?

 

[biobizz]

p.s. i came here to see if i need a modiffied lucas formula for coco but if i got it right its stay original?

so u guys just add micro and bloom + some epsom salt if needed

of course i will feed them 3-5 times a day to prevent salt built

thanks so much for this community, it really helped me a lot ..compared to hanfburg & headaches caused by german trolls
peace

 

[biobizz]

ah just wake up..6/9 is the moddified one got it

 

[Miraculous Meds]

nice plants wow much love. at the time i dial in my coco coir really well and i pull arround 1-1,2g per watt minimum. but i am planing to change the scrog and want to grow bigger plants in coco/airpots in the future. also use vertical lights maybe
can u pls tell me how much u pull of these babes. like grams per wattage. and do u use 1000w or 600w?
also planing to cut down all my canna coir nutes and all other stuff to basic lucas formula cause the nutes are available and cheap here.

so u say u don´t use any additieves at all? no pk boosters? no root no humic acids no micro bacteria? no shit?

u don´t need ghe rippen either? just these 2 bottles?

I run 5 600w hps. Getting ready to convert the middle bulb to a 1k mh.

No additives for me. I have tried a ton of different additives/boosters root enhancers etc.... They might help, but certainly are not a requirement. I always caution if ur going to try them, use one at a time in a controlled environment so u can see if it changed or helps things. I always look to correct a deficiency sign by looking at the culprit for causing it. Since the base formula has all the nutrient a plant needs, it usually comes down to temp, rh, air flow, over/under watering, or bugs. For example if ur showing mg deficiency, check to make sure the roots aren't too cold, or the medium is too acidic, or the roots r staying too wet. Check for the cause of the problem, cause with this nutient recipe u already have enough of whatever deficiency might show. That's the beauty of this nutrient regiment. It takes the guess work out of needing to add this or that, and u can now concentrate on whats causing the problem, and start to learn what to change instead of just trying to add a magical fix in a bottle.

 

[watts]

Thanks for sharing, MM.

 

[anasrzi]

Gearing up for my first attempt at coco growing using Lucas/coco guided by hards tried and tested formula, gotta say a big thanks for that although I know he's not around now, so thanks to all the other members who have shown what this formula can do.

Got my coco brick ready and expanded using half strength feeds as ive got a quality clone nearly ready to begin but im keen to use a root stim ideally house and garden root excel.

So would you use it? Has anyone tried it? Is it needed? Still not brought it and won't if you guys think it's not needed.

Another Q while I've asked about th erotic stim, do you use pure coco or add perlite? From what I've read when using coco adding say 4 parts coco to 1 part perlite or similar just to free up the coco a little more?

Last Q I promise I use and will be using airpots for this coco/Lucas grow, is that ok? If so I'll be planning to grow much larger plants in much larger airpots in the future (one plant one light sort of deal).

 

[Miraculous Meds]

Root stims, not needed, but experiment with some with n some without n see if u can tell a difference. It shouldn't mess ur npk ratio, just don't leave it in a res. Water the medium the same day u mix it.
I've used them n still experiment with them on occasion. I haven't proved to myself that they r that helpful yet.

Perlite, use more too water more often for rapid growth. Or straight coir will let u water less if u desire, with slower growth rates.

Airpots r fine. Just more air so potentially faster growth rates. What size lights r u thinking about for the 1 plant per light system? Do u want to auto water or hand water?

 

[anasrzi]

I'll give the root stim a miss for now then miraculous meds or perhaps try some in future, I've not found them to be overly needed but everyone raves about root excelurator who's used it. Thanks for all the advice

I'd sooner add the perlite as I don't mind watering more often in fact prefer spending time on the girls than people half the time, plants fill me with joy where as people piss me off haha.

Considering getting a couple of gavita DE 750s for my 1.2 x 2.4 tent as I'm told they are nigh on perfect for such space, right now I'm running vertically which is working fine with both super soil and hand watered coco (looking to switch to coco for the extra weight ) but by doing vertical I'm only using half the space I have with two bulbs stacked. Air pot sizes I was thinking the 22.5 litre ones, one in veg, two in flower vegged to a large size in coco by hand (blumats maybe when I'm away, maybe?)

 

[painter66]

great looking plants Miraculous Meds , would you mind explaining a bit about your watering schedule with those monster plants.
thanks.