Guerilla subforum

[hamstring]

First, lets define "in the wild" and "in the bush" for what they really mean: Public Land. Which means State or Federal owned. That doesnt sound all that wild or bushy to me. Sounds risky, legally speaking.

200 plants? 1000's? I reckon a fella could get a few "best individuals" out of a plant count such as that. LOL

Yea, health is important when doin the guerilla game. A 300lb fat man isnt goin to get far if he has to run away from 1000 plants...CC

CC
I'll take your growing advice any day brother. I like that you are here poking some holes in the pro-guerrilla tribe rather have that than nothing but "I agree" that way the truth comes out.

My def of "in the wild" is out in the bush weather that is public or private land. To tell you truth where I come from there are no huge tracts of public land. I prefer private land because there is less human encroachment.
That’s me and again its based on what is available in my environment/area ( that’s how a guerilla should think brother less equals more). If there were 1000's of acres of public land i am sure I would use it just as would my back yard if it were legal.

I think what botagin is saying is to get a healthy, viable and repeatable seed strain for your environment it takes a quite few plants. Very few (to my limited knowledge) breeders are producing repeatable seed strains for growers. It doesn’t exist anymore they all cross the flavor of the month with some other hyped strain to get a few seeds that you have to pheno hunt for the one you are looking for. That’s the biz now (talking out of my ass). Dude I spent 20 years now looking for some breeder who specializes in producing seeds with little variation that work in my environment. Let me see now, i have found ZERO. There’s no money in it or again I assume that’s the reason. I’m sure you can speak better to the seed biz than I. It’s so different from 20 years ago.

Hey brother you can let your guard down while in the bush its true but no one said completely. If you can’t enjoy the outdoors while being out there I don’t want any part of that. If you’re hiking in 5 miles of bush much less likely to see your enemy (humans of any type) than when you are trying to get into the bush.

 

[CanniDo Cowboy]

CC
I'll take your growing advice any day brother. I like that you are here poking some holes in the pro-guerrilla tribe rather have that than nothing but "I agree" that way the truth comes out.

My def of "in the wild" is out in the bush weather that is public or private land. To tell you truth where I come from there are no huge tracts of public land. I prefer private land because there is less human encroachment.
That’s me and again its based on what is available in my environment/area ( that’s how a guerilla should think brother less equals more). If there were 1000's of acres of public land i am sure I would use it just as would my back yard if it were legal.

I think what botagin is saying is to get a healthy, viable and repeatable seed strain for your environment it takes a quite few plants. Very few (to my limited knowledge) breeders are producing repeatable seed strains for growers. It doesn’t exist anymore they all cross the flavor of the month with some other hyped strain to get a few seeds that you have to pheno hunt for the one you are looking for. That’s the biz now (talking out of my ass). Dude I spent 20 years now looking for some breeder who specializes in producing seeds with little variation that work in my environment. Let me see now, i have found ZERO. There’s no money in it or again I assume that’s the reason. I’m sure you can speak better to the seed biz than I. It’s so different from 20 years ago.

Hey brother you can let your guard down while in the bush its true but no one said completely. If you can’t enjoy the outdoors while being out there I don’t want any part of that. If you’re hiking in 5 miles of bush much less likely to see your enemy (humans of any type) than when you are trying to get into the bush.

Hey Ham...Right back to ya bro. If I thought you were an idiot or a "smoke blower', I'd have quit this thread a page back. LOL Not here to poke holes in the Guerilla game bro. On the contrary, I sort of got sucked into this thread by expressing my opinion that a few of the pro-Guerilla folks IMO, posting to the thread were being a tad bit bias to the point of being judgmental in that Guerilla growing is somehow more respectable and legitimate because of the extra effort and comittment it supposedly takes. Claims of a stronger connection to the outdoors as well as health benefits included. All of which, again IMO, isnt going to do much to win the argument for having a Guerilla sub-forum.

I suppose the "try that in your backyard" and the "you live in a med-friendly state ya grow-pussy" (more or less) attitudes are, IMO, just dumb and I do take exception. Not because I'm partial to one or the other but because I simply dont believe either method demands more respect or recognition than the other. Either being better depends on what works or doesnt work for each individual, but again, 'try that in your backyard" type statements are not proving the point of needing a Guerilla forum.

In a domestic setting, it takes just as much dedication and commitment and probably more in-depth grow-skills to produce high quality medicine (not weed) consistently, season in and season out. Risk? Does a higher risk factor mean more dedication? Does the willingness to hike 5 miles to a grow signify a greater love for the outdoors than someone who grows on private land or in the backyard? Does having to deal with "in the wild" dangers big and small and face possible failure every time you leave your vehicle make a person a more accomplished or professional grower than the private land grower? if anyone answers yes to any of these questions, then I'm done. There just isnt any point to arguing with a fool.

So, if Botagin and other members feel the Forums could support a separate Guerilla sub-forum, press on fellas. If y'all believe there is enough difference in Guerilla applications, methods, regional technique requirements, trail tool comparison, tricks of the trade etc, speed on. But do it on the merits and aspects of Guerilla growing itself. Not by diminishing the efforts of those who do the same thing (growing) but who dont find hiking boots, mosquito netting and tick repellant necessary tools of the trade...Nuff said...CC

 

[bogatin]

Very few (to my limited knowledge) breeders are producing repeatable seed strains for growers. It doesn’t exist anymore they all cross the flavor of the month with some other hyped strain to get a few seeds that you have to pheno hunt for the one you are looking for. That’s the biz now (talking out of my ass). Dude I spent 20 years now looking for some breeder who specializes in producing seeds with little variation that work in my environment. Let me see now, i have found ZERO.

Amen to that!

I want seeds/plants with features that I can relay on from generation to generation. I don't want pheno hunting. No time for that.
I want seds to sprout out there in the bush/wild . Well at least major percentage. Who really breads for that today? I know I want to.

I can understand people take to much care when they sprout seeds they paid 100 bucks for but that's also part of the problem for us that would like those seeds to sprout in the bush. Traits get lost...

The more I think about it the more I'm sure we need to go back to the roots. Yep, guerilla stile is the way to go there. And having subforum with useful information gathered in one place will help people getting into the scene.

Public/private property? I really don't care. Most of the property here is private - farmers having their chunk of forest. If not farmers than church. 60% of our country is covered with forest. So plenty of place to experiment.

200 plants? 1000's? I reckon a fella could get a few "best individuals" out of a plant count such as that. LOL

I wish I could plant on a 1 square mile of property and do some proper breading. But I can't so I chose the next best method. Beats breading in the home cabinet for the traits I want anytime.

 

[Nunsacred]

I can't see the point in any of this discussion.

GG means different things to different people.

Anyone saying stuff about how other people think should shut up.

FWIW I can afford to buy land to grow my crops on but I don't.
I could grow large small numbers of large plants in just one or two sites, but I don't.

While I'm here setting this record straight, I also want to say that the word is 'bizarre' , and breeding is spelled 'breeding', and since we are communicating with the written/typed word, it IS important to get it right.

cheers

N

 

[bogatin]

I can't see the point in any of this discussion.

So don't comment...

 

[Nunsacred]

I'll say what I like.

There ain't nothing like a friend who can tell you when you're pissing in the wind [/Neil Young]

 

[Oregonism]

People that grow a handful of herb per season, ok maybe more
For various reasons we call our-selfs guerilla growers. We search for places that people don't walk into. We are stealth, we are bird watchers, hikers, mtn bikers, hunters, loggers, explorers and above all nature lovers.

We plant out there. In the wild.

We haul our stuff into woods. Carry fuck load of shit for miles, get paranoid when dealing with animals - especially at night (thats the time it really gets interesting)


------->Ever tried breeding out there?

I am interested in learning about outdoor breeding. It ain't no sterile laboratory. I have drooled over throwing a handle of the bottom of the seed bin and hoping they all mix together for a few seasons in my south facing corner.

This year would have been interesting, I am basically on the 45th, halfway and it frosted ,which is not the norm in the PNW.

Guirrellaz

 

[Henrik]

I am interested in learning about outdoor breeding. It ain't no sterile laboratory. I have drooled over throwing a handle of the bottom of the seed bin and hoping they all mix together for a few seasons in my south facing corner.

This year would have been interesting, I am basically on the 45th, halfway and it frosted ,which is not the norm in the PNW.

Guirrellaz

Toss those seeds out man! Breeding is fun! digg?

 

[mogrow]

if you think growing on your patio and growing gurrellia style is even remotely the same you've never done a gurrellia grow. i would love to check my plants in my sandels but i cant and i can live with that.
it's the difference between night and day.
yes, there needs to be a forum.
love you backyard growers and i would be doing it if i could.
peace mogrow

 

[bogatin]

Please refrain from the debate of backyard vs guerilla growers. This isn't intention of this thread. I love backyard growers and their big plants.

Goal is to gather info on
-strains that are suitable for guerilla
-methods for successful sprouting of seeds in the bush
-low maintenance techniques / less visits
-outdoor drying
-finding patches
-breeding in the bush
-etc...

 

[Barbanegra]

My take on the game now is: go dig some places with good soil, throw in the seed, let it grow, take some seeds from the best few, repeat next year.

First time from seed in the spot this year. Before I'd always take plants pregrown indoors. If I can skip that and grow from seed in the spot... fuckin brilliant.

And the snails help with breeding.

Otherwise... you know: spot dictates method and numbers. I try to source as much as I can locally. Mulch material, horse shit. Bring in some dense mineral and organic time release ferts. If I had to change the structure of soil, I would take coco bricks and let the rain expand them, but now I just stay away from heavy clay. To lugging in tons of costly amendments I prefer going up with the numbers, if that is an option. Biggest issue is always entry/exit.

I'd like to end up with some sort of stock that gives me good plants in weak soil with the rain that they get et cetera.. Time will tell.

My climate is benign.

 

[hamstring]

My take on the game now is: go dig some places with good soil, throw in the seed, let it grow, take some seeds from the best few, repeat next year.

First time from seed in the spot this year. Before I'd always take plants pregrown indoors. If I can skip that and grow from seed in the spot... fuckin brilliant.

And the snails help with breeding.

Otherwise... you know: spot dictates method and numbers. I try to source as much as I can locally. Mulch material, horse shit. Bring in some dense mineral and organic time release ferts. If I had to change the structure of soil, I would take coco bricks and let the rain expand them, but now I just stay away from heavy clay. To lugging in tons of costly amendments I prefer going up with the numbers, if that is an option. Biggest issue is always entry/exit.

I'd like to end up with some sort of stock that gives me good plants in weak soil with the rain that they get et cetera.. Time will tell.

My climate is benign.

Hey guerrilla i like your less equals more style. I have amended with coco in dry soil and perlite in wet but like you I now use the soil that’s there. If its not conducive to growing the spot isn’t for me I move on. I use osmocote slow release and set and forget. Well not exactly still have to spray a few times for disease and insects but only when required.

I like the use of benign i'm going to steal that when describing how to choose a guerrilla plot. Look for a benign enviroment.

I will however carry in a cold frame to start the seeds you ever tried that??

Do you go with two seedlings per hole to optimize females??

I choose location based on not needing to water is that a consideration for your plots??


I wish I had the balls to breed for the enviroment but I put so much work into just pulling off a harvest i cant get myself to seed anything ,on purpose that is.

 

[LouDog420]

Hmm, I'll offer a few words from my experience ...

Strains - Mold resistance and finishing time are the two biggest factors. Nothing like growing a plot for a few months to find it decimated by that fuckin' grey bud rot...

Never sprouted seeds in the bush... Always clone for ladies and plant cuts, so I'm no help there...

Less visits.. A staple of my method:
First visit, carrying out soil/amendments. 1 CF compressed bags of soil can be found. They fit into backpacks real nice and expand to 2 CF. Carrying these out and stash them at the site to be mixed with native soil.
Second visit, digging and prepping. Dig your holes/beds. I use water retention crystals at the bottom and slow release osmocote throughout.
Third visit (after a nice rain ). Those crystals should be filled up and the osmocote should have started working. Plant time.
Fourth visit (Early August) Bloom ferts and some weeding if needed. Again slow release, but this time organic. Foxfarm has a good fruit and flower line that lasts a month.
Fifth visit, chop and GTFO! Never dried in the bush so no help there either

Works great for my climate as I get a bit of rain throughout the summer. Enough to keep the girls happy with the water crystals. Sorry to those of you out in the desert

And breeding... As simple as a single plot away from the rest. Plant at very high densities. The girls that come out on top are the winners. I like to open pollinate outside. In fact that's how my CJ/SB IX1 came about, after 2 seasons outdoors, we got some nice colas 95%+ seeded... Small 6 x 3 plot yields over 4K in viable seeds

One thing to take away, what works in one environment might not in another! The joy of being guerrilla

 

[CanniDo Cowboy]

Please refrain from the debate of backyard vs guerilla growers. This isn't intention of this thread. I love backyard growers and their big plants.

Goal is to gather info on
-strains that are suitable for guerilla
-methods for successful sprouting of seeds in the bush
-low maintenance techniques / less visits
-outdoor drying
-finding patches
-breeding in the bush
-etc...

Alrighty Bog...Looks like ya got the thread goin in the right direction. Just took a couple of pages of dick wavin but now yer on your way! LOL. Starting to get some very good reads and look forward to more. Your outline (goal list) looks good too. Congrats brother, good job. Best of luck getting the sub-forum.

PS...Youre in good company with Hamstring. He brings a dedicated approach and unique philosophy to the guerrilla style. He is, IMO, the real deal...CC

 

[Barbanegra]

I will however carry in a cold frame to start the seeds you ever tried that??

Not yet. I did consider it for making seedlings in one spot and transplanting them later to other spots, but the nursery spot has to take a brake this year and we have other possibilities -> someone's balcony for insurance and hundreds of seeds that will go straight into the ground. If it doesn't work to my satisfaction, I'll set up outdoor nurseries for next year. But first I'd like to try the easy way

Do you go with two seedlings per hole to optimize females??

Last year I have planted 4 per hole in one spot. The other ones were fem spots. This time I planted about 200 seeds in two rows per circa 2x1 meter bed.

I choose location based on not needing to water is that a consideration for your plots??

Watering is not an option. Too much trouble. In summer I have more than enough rainfall. Problem was with Sept/Oct last 3 years. Dry spells of over a month. Had one spot that suffered being on a hill and somewhat sandy soil, but the plants survived, yielded smoke and seed, so I don't complain. I choose location based on access, security and soil. Water I take for granted. From the heavens above. Extensive farming practices

I wish I had the balls to breed for the enviroment but I put so much work into just pulling off a harvest i cant get myself to seed anything ,on purpose that is.

You can pollinate single branches. It's how I did my fems two years ago and the way I want to make more. Take cuts from a few promising specimen, treat indoors with STS, take the pollen/flowering bits out to the spots and pollinate lower branches on the best looking girls.
Open pollination is kind of overkill, but it feels good to have endless supply of seed. Just have to sacrifice a spot twice a decade or so. Doesn't have to be a big, good or elaborate one. Not that much in the grand scheme of things.

Strains - Mold resistance and finishing time are the two biggest factors. Nothing like growing a plot for a few months to find it decimated by that fuckin' grey bud rot...

Exactly! I've had my finishing times spread over whole of Sept and Oct and found only the early plants, especially heavy August bloomers, hit with rot. Takes some time and experiment to find the strains one needs. Of course some spots and years are better than others in that respect. I hedge my bets. Security in numbers and diversity.

Third visit (after a nice rain

) Plant time.

Or just before A no-brainer in my climate.

I wish everyone good luck this season. May autumn bring you a bountiful harvest.

 

[Nunsacred]

Please refrain from the debate of backyard vs guerilla growers. This isn't intention of this thread.

Ok, but that's exactly the consequence of having a separate Guerrilla sub-forum. It would raise the debate every time someone says "this thread should be in the other forum.....".
We can't agree on what 'guerilla' means, so don't drill a divide and say that there is one.
Much better to keep outdoor growing together.

Goal is to gather info on
-strains that are suitable for guerilla
-methods for successful sprouting of seeds in the bush
-low maintenance techniques / less visits
-outdoor drying
-finding patches
-breeding in the bush
-etc...

I'll bet you 50 of my favourite outdoor seeds that there's already a specific thread here somewhere for each of those.
What chance has this really got ? - 'please write an objective essay about your guerrilla style in my thread, covering details which I didn't outline myself in the first post'.

Arne's Hash Plant from HybridsFromHell is my recommended easy outdoor strain.
Most of my advice and growing technique is in my grow threads.
Why would I repeat it here?

I agree they are valid questions and it would be nice to see this info together. But you're asking for everything about GGing in one thread!

lol
even a simple Strain Report is complex enough

Here's the simplest solution for that :
Post a first post with a neat format and ask to copy it.
eg.
Strain name :
Latitude :
Germination date :
Plant date :
etc....

...ok so we could sit here and argue about what details and how to word it ....
...but it still needs to be moderated by someone regularly, if it's just as ordinary format thread. People will post off-topic anyway.

So really it needs to be an actual web form, like a customised poll thread. People can't post their entry without a strain name, for example, and it would be much better if details like "germination date" came from a proper calendar selection rather than typed dates which might be UK/US format etc etc (yawn).

If we could get a mod to agree to search the board host platform for such a thread format, it might be worth actually nailing this once and for all.
We need a thread with multiple web form widgets to make a professional Guerrilla strain report.
Imagine a database page you could view as graphs showing how a strain has performed for yield, earliness and mould for the last 5 years - from live grower report data....

Right so
that's just the first point, the strain performance....

...now, what was the next one?
Methods for successful sprouting of seeds in the bush?
Right well lets start with crop rotation and tillage....

...8 years later I finish your essay and oh look 5 other people have vaguely asked the same vague questions again.
Sigh.

 

[hamstring]

Exactly! I've had my finishing times spread over whole of Sept and Oct and found only the early plants, especially heavy August bloomers, hit with rot. Takes some time and experiment to find the strains one needs. Of course some spots and years are better than others in that respect. I hedge my bets. Security in numbers and diversity.

Hey guerrilla I love this statement right here.

Most OD growers, 80% or more, will tell you the late finishers are the most mold prone but every once in awhile someone like yourself points out what I have seen too. The early strains, the worst for me was Shaman, are the most mold prone. I believe that’s because in my Midwest environment the humid hot days (dog days of summer) are right when these last week of august strains are in full bloom and susceptible to mold. Don’t get me wrong if it does nothing but rain in late Sept – early Oct you will have bud rot but not nearly as bad as late August. I have had whole plants covered in mold with no rain.

Love to see some comments pro and con on this phenomena.

 

[hamstring]

Although many many---- many things are repeated in the OD/guerilla forum I also believe that’s why there are misconceptions in the guerrilla crowd (say anything enough times and it becomes the truth).

Watering for example in my opinion too many guerillas water when its not really needed. I know a desert environment is different but most guerillas aren’t in the desert. My feeling is from an early age we are trained to water plants like our lawn, our garden and house plants. People think watering any plant is a must but its only because with people growing up in the suburbs with no shade and very little native vegetation the plants need water. In the wild plants have adapted to their environment BUT I also believe the environment is actual more conducive to water retention. (An opinion nothing else)

If you put your plants in the ground vs. on the ground (potted) water is not necessary most of the time. Most of us are growing in or around bush with heavy vegetation, including corn growers, and the vegetation helps retain water by shading and providing good water retaining soil. With the advent or wide spread use of water crystals watering should be something only used when the environment strictly dictates.

What say you???

 

[.clunk]

When I started growing in the bush I used to break my back carrying dozens of bales of soil into the bush to fill 8 gallon grow bags. Over time I realized a few things about this method;
-8 gallons of soil limits plant size
-black grow bags stick out like a sore thumb
-black grow bags get hot and fry the roots. They also dry out really quickly and require alot of watering, more than I can provide in the heat of summer.
This was an expensive method of growing and if the results weren't perfect, I was out alot of cash and was visiting the plot far too often to water everything.

After a few years of this nonsense it dawned on me that I was working against nature instead of with it; I was standing on top of mountains of great soil that just needed a little work to become viable. So I started digging holes, lots of them, and began amending the soil. I was still carrying in a couple bales of peat moss and bags of perlite to amend the holes, but I needed much less to grow good dope. The first year I tried this method I was using a mix of around 50% natural soil/35% peat/15% perlite and a cup of dolomite lime per 12 gallon hole. I had great results but my back was still sore every spring and I felt there must be a better way.

Now, I dig 12-15 gallon holes and pick out the rocks and roots. I add around a gallon of perlite and a cup of lime to each hole and mix it in really well to give good aeration and drainage all the way through and buffer the Ph. I mix a shovel scoop (maybe .5 gallon) of peat moss into the top 6 inches of the hole which provides the clone or seedling an easy start to life. Once the clone has grown past that first 6 inches of soil its roots are strong enough to push down into the natural soil amended with perlite.

Voila, 6-8oz plants all day every day and my back isn't wrecked!! I can amend 50 holes with one bale of peat moss ($7), one big bag of perlite ($20) and one bag of dolomite lime ($5). All told I've spent only $0.64 on each hole, made only two trips with amendments into the bush which leaves next to no trail and depending on your location and rainfall might not need many trips to water. I use Osmocote or similiar slow release plant food so I don't need to be visiting the patches all the time to feed and it's cheap!

Work smart not hard!!!

 

[Perolito]

All off the above is true, but if you are from karst region theres not much native soil to begin with and the vegetation is poor.Mostly rocks, while water penetrates deep into the ground so there goes the natural water retention. From my experience, vermiculite+agrogel and you can`t go wrong. Even if it rains 1-2x a month thats good enough.