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Growroom Electricity and Wiring
- Thread starter Phillthy
- Start date
Good deal.
The screws on the buss looked like they were probably mounts, but I wanted to make sure. Normally the bonding screw is anodized a fairly bright green.
If you are the only one working on it, the phase tape isn't a big issue but it is a common code violation for inspections.
Your controller should serve you well for a long time to come.
Merry Christmas to you!
The screws on the buss looked like they were probably mounts, but I wanted to make sure. Normally the bonding screw is anodized a fairly bright green.
If you are the only one working on it, the phase tape isn't a big issue but it is a common code violation for inspections.
Your controller should serve you well for a long time to come.
Merry Christmas to you!
Nomad28743
Member
Crazy question but here goes anyway. Could a green flood light be used to heat a small cabinet that has night time temps in the mid 50's even when the rest of the room only gets down to the high 60's. It has a 6'' fan sucking air out on the top and in the door is a 15" x 17" vent with furnace filter material for light proofing. The cabinet is 27" x 24" x 48" tall so even the smallest electric heater would be too much. So I was wondering if a green flood light would be able to heat the area but not interfere with the 12 hours of darkness. I was also thinking of hanging an electric heating pad on the back wall to come on at lights off. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. TY
I wouldn't use a green light. Plants reportedly use green after the red and blue spectra are maximized, and green can be used for incidental operation, but full time? Dunno.
The heating mat, an electrical enclosure heater, or a pump house heater sound like your best options to me. Thermostatically controlled enclosure heaters look like they start at about $100.
Some options -
http://www.zoro.com/vulcan-low-profile-enclosure-heater-200w-120v-e-osf-1510-200a/i/G2054911/
http://www.grainger.com/product/QMARK-Convection-Pump-House-Heater-39K903?functionCode=P2IDP2PCP
http://www.automationdirect.com/adc...ry=HEATER+enclosure&categoryId=0&TxnNumber=-1
http://www.grainger.com/product/TEMPCO-Tubular-Enclosure-Heater-4TCX7?functionCode=P2IDP2PCP
The heating mat, an electrical enclosure heater, or a pump house heater sound like your best options to me. Thermostatically controlled enclosure heaters look like they start at about $100.
Some options -
http://www.zoro.com/vulcan-low-profile-enclosure-heater-200w-120v-e-osf-1510-200a/i/G2054911/
http://www.grainger.com/product/QMARK-Convection-Pump-House-Heater-39K903?functionCode=P2IDP2PCP
http://www.automationdirect.com/adc...ry=HEATER+enclosure&categoryId=0&TxnNumber=-1
http://www.grainger.com/product/TEMPCO-Tubular-Enclosure-Heater-4TCX7?functionCode=P2IDP2PCP
Nomad28743
Member
I was hoping you would chime in Rives.
That is the exact info I was seeking on the green light.
The links are extremely helpful. I would not have know about these items if not for your extra effort with searching these out and linking them.
Thank so much mate!
That is the exact info I was seeking on the green light.
The links are extremely helpful. I would not have know about these items if not for your extra effort with searching these out and linking them.
Thank so much mate!
It seems to me that the cabinet is probably against an outside wall or corner. Otherwise, it wouldn't be colder. If that's true, a layer of foam board insulation or reflectix would do a lot of good.
Nomad28743
Member
Jhhnn is a beeping genius!! 
It is a north facing wall on a corner. Tonight I will feel the wall and see if it's cold to the touch. Last night it was about 13 outside at dawn, our coldest yet this year. I discovered one hint that you may be spot on is the temp sensor was very near the exterior wall of the cabinet and I moved it a coupla inches away and the temps read higher right after. I must admit though that was 2 inches closer to a CFL bulb also. So I am going to re position the temp sensor right now again to be in the corner and further away from the CFL and several inches off the wall.
If the wall feels too cold it will be a simple repair to add some 3/4" foam I have on hand. I will cover it in white panda film and viola!
This is one of those rare times cruising these sites did not cost a bundle.
I will report in as I do these changes.
Thanks for your input and knowledge Jhhnn.
It is a north facing wall on a corner. Tonight I will feel the wall and see if it's cold to the touch. Last night it was about 13 outside at dawn, our coldest yet this year. I discovered one hint that you may be spot on is the temp sensor was very near the exterior wall of the cabinet and I moved it a coupla inches away and the temps read higher right after. I must admit though that was 2 inches closer to a CFL bulb also. So I am going to re position the temp sensor right now again to be in the corner and further away from the CFL and several inches off the wall.
If the wall feels too cold it will be a simple repair to add some 3/4" foam I have on hand. I will cover it in white panda film and viola!
This is one of those rare times cruising these sites did not cost a bundle.
I will report in as I do these changes.
Thanks for your input and knowledge Jhhnn.
Hello there ICmag electrical people.
First off let me show you some pics of what I'm working with here...
http://imgur.com/a/u8yBL
From what I can tell this box hasn't been properly inspected since 1973 as evidenced by the paper in the upper left hand corner in the first pic.
This box is directly outside of my grow room, and is fed to by the meter outside. The main breaker for this whole subpanel from what I can tell is located outside in the meter box.
The two 30 amp breakers that are flipped are currently not in use by anything in the place from what I can tell. One of them was for electric baseboard heaters, and the other I'm not so sure. We use a portable heating unit for when it gets cold.
I'm looking to eventually run 4x 1000w HPS for flowering, a 600w MH for veg, a portable 14k btu AC unit, fans, dehumidifier, and maybe a c02 burner. I'd definitely like to have more room for my electrical needs down the road in case I need a better AC unit to keep up, or if I decide on expanding my light coverage.
I've got a couple of questions...
Should I run two separate 30a/240v circuits, one to a light controller, dedicated to controlling the lights, and the other to a subbox with proper downstream to a series of outlets controlling the climate stuff: dehumidifier, fans, AC, c02?
Or should I replace one of those breakers with a 50a/240v that runs into an additional subpanel that controls everything? Would my current electrical setup even allow for that much on one circuit branch?
Any suggestions, hints, ridicule, or whatever is welcome.
Thanks
First off let me show you some pics of what I'm working with here...
http://imgur.com/a/u8yBL
From what I can tell this box hasn't been properly inspected since 1973 as evidenced by the paper in the upper left hand corner in the first pic.
This box is directly outside of my grow room, and is fed to by the meter outside. The main breaker for this whole subpanel from what I can tell is located outside in the meter box.
The two 30 amp breakers that are flipped are currently not in use by anything in the place from what I can tell. One of them was for electric baseboard heaters, and the other I'm not so sure. We use a portable heating unit for when it gets cold.
I'm looking to eventually run 4x 1000w HPS for flowering, a 600w MH for veg, a portable 14k btu AC unit, fans, dehumidifier, and maybe a c02 burner. I'd definitely like to have more room for my electrical needs down the road in case I need a better AC unit to keep up, or if I decide on expanding my light coverage.
I've got a couple of questions...
Should I run two separate 30a/240v circuits, one to a light controller, dedicated to controlling the lights, and the other to a subbox with proper downstream to a series of outlets controlling the climate stuff: dehumidifier, fans, AC, c02?
Or should I replace one of those breakers with a 50a/240v that runs into an additional subpanel that controls everything? Would my current electrical setup even allow for that much on one circuit branch?
Any suggestions, hints, ridicule, or whatever is welcome.
Thanks
The first step that you need to make is to figure out how much power the panel is fed with, and the second is to determine what the existing load is. It looks like there might be some downstream subpanels - the 60a double-pole breaker on the upper left certainly is feeding more than a deep freeze.
The busses are rated for a total of 125 amps, but it is possible that the main breaker is smaller than that. You are looking at adding approximately 7500w (31 amps if all 240v, 63 amps if 120v, somewhere in between if mixed), so you could easily be exceeding your feed or even the busses if the panel is already loaded up. You are only allowed 80% of the breaker rating (including the main) for continuous loads, which are anything exceeding 3 hours.
It looks like there is quite a bit of aluminum wiring in there and none of them appear to have anti-oxidant on them.
I think that my choice would be going with two circuits - one dedicated to the light controller and one for the auxiliary equipment.
The busses are rated for a total of 125 amps, but it is possible that the main breaker is smaller than that. You are looking at adding approximately 7500w (31 amps if all 240v, 63 amps if 120v, somewhere in between if mixed), so you could easily be exceeding your feed or even the busses if the panel is already loaded up. You are only allowed 80% of the breaker rating (including the main) for continuous loads, which are anything exceeding 3 hours.
It looks like there is quite a bit of aluminum wiring in there and none of them appear to have anti-oxidant on them.
I think that my choice would be going with two circuits - one dedicated to the light controller and one for the auxiliary equipment.
Gotta agree w/ Rives. It's extremely important to understand the entire electrical system in the structure before adding heavy continuous loads, all the way from the service panel to the outlets. That's particularly true w/ older work, aluminum wiring & oddball installations.
That panel isn't a regular residential installation. All the 240v circuits tell us that. It looks like light industrial or commercial, something set up for a small pro wood shop, welding shop or anything where powerful equipment was used.
The 1973 tag is probably from the inspection of the wiring when it was new.
That panel isn't a regular residential installation. All the 240v circuits tell us that. It looks like light industrial or commercial, something set up for a small pro wood shop, welding shop or anything where powerful equipment was used.
The 1973 tag is probably from the inspection of the wiring when it was new.
New to the IC forums. I'm not a electrician by trade, so please correct me if I'm wrong. Looking at the schematic in the photo of that particular circuit breakers panel it appears to me that the buss bar for the A leg, and also the buss bar for the B leg, have two separate upper and lower halves. The 60 amp double pole breaker mounted on the upper halves busses appear to be feeding power to the lower haves busses. Does flipping off the 60 amp breaker interrupt all power to the circuit breakers mounted on the lower halves of the panel?
New to the IC forums. I'm not a electrician by trade, so please correct me if I'm wrong. Looking at the schematic in the photo of that particular circuit breakers panel it appears to me that the buss bar for the A leg, and also the buss bar for the B leg, have two separate upper and lower halves. The 60 amp double pole breaker mounted on the upper halves busses appear to be feeding power to the lower haves busses. Does flipping off the 60 amp breaker interrupt all power to the circuit breakers mounted on the lower halves of the panel?
I hadn't paid any attention to it, but it looks like you are correct. The conductors from the 60a "Deep Freeze" breaker wrap around the bottom and look like they might feed the bottom busswork.
Strange panel....
When I flip the 60 amp breaker, everything goes out on both sides of the box. Went around and tested everything with a volt sensor. So I guess that 60 amp breaker, at least for this box, it is my main breaker?
I've got this guy here:
http://i.imgur.com/xJEoVc7.jpg
Could I use it to measure the existing the load on the panel? Measure from the big cables coming from the top down? or from the 60 amp breaker?
I've got this guy here:
http://i.imgur.com/xJEoVc7.jpg
Could I use it to measure the existing the load on the panel? Measure from the big cables coming from the top down? or from the 60 amp breaker?
Okay so I measured the two thick black incoming lines at the top.
The one on the left was pulling 45 amps when I first turned on my dryer, washer, and dishwasher all at once, with heater running. It averaged back down to around 28-30 and has been idling around there for about 20 minutes or so with washer, dryer, and dishwasher all running at once. The one on the right seems to jump to around 45-50 as well when stuff starts up and then drops back down to 36-37 and sits at that. When I measure the lower wire in the 60 amp breaker that connects to what I believe is called the right bus it seems to pull about 16 amps. The upper wire on the 60 amp breaker which connects to what I believe is the left bus is pulling between 10 and 16 amps. So it seems like all the other breakers pull their power from the 60a main.
I thought originally that the main breaker was outside in the meter but I guess I was mistaken and its actually this 60amp breaker.
It looks like its a 125a service according to the schematic, so I should definitely be able to pull more than what that 60amp main is limiting me to. Sooo should my next step be to upgrade that 60a to something more hefty?
Here's a better look at the bottom portion of the panel:
http://imgur.com/NIR2c0D
The one on the left was pulling 45 amps when I first turned on my dryer, washer, and dishwasher all at once, with heater running. It averaged back down to around 28-30 and has been idling around there for about 20 minutes or so with washer, dryer, and dishwasher all running at once. The one on the right seems to jump to around 45-50 as well when stuff starts up and then drops back down to 36-37 and sits at that. When I measure the lower wire in the 60 amp breaker that connects to what I believe is called the right bus it seems to pull about 16 amps. The upper wire on the 60 amp breaker which connects to what I believe is the left bus is pulling between 10 and 16 amps. So it seems like all the other breakers pull their power from the 60a main.
I thought originally that the main breaker was outside in the meter but I guess I was mistaken and its actually this 60amp breaker.
It looks like its a 125a service according to the schematic, so I should definitely be able to pull more than what that 60amp main is limiting me to. Sooo should my next step be to upgrade that 60a to something more hefty?
Here's a better look at the bottom portion of the panel:
http://imgur.com/NIR2c0D
I would think that with the 60 amp breaker turned-off, you would still have power to the other three double pole breakers outlined in your photo with blue, red, light blue rectangles. Have you verify this? I was under the assumption that the main breaker that would supply all power to that inside panel would be the breaker outside in the meter panel, and that the 60 amp breaker was just controlling the power to the breakers outlined in your photo with green, violet, white, dark red rectangles. On the schematic, the space where your 60 amp breaker presently occupy, it states 70A Max. Oh by the way, you never did mention the size of that breaker in the meter panel.
I'll double check when I get back home, but if I remember correctly when I flipped the 60a breaker it cut power to everything, including the stove, which its breaker is highlighted in Red. And the fact that the schematic tells me that the main breaker slot has a max load of 70a, means I'll probably have to upgrade this whole panel? I'll have to double check the size of the breaker in the meter outside when I return as well.
Stevie is correct. Per the schematic, the top 8 slots (4 double-pole breakers) should remain powered when the 60a breaker is off. You would have measured the total load at the moment if you were on the lines feeding into the top of the panel.
The 125a rating on the schematic has nothing to do with the actual service size - that is what the maximum total load for the panel busswork is.
You need to identify all the loads to really see what you've got (there could be some substantial loads that weren't on at the time you read the ammeter, or they could all just be convenience receptacles), but it's looking pretty tight for that panel and the load that you want to add. It's possible that if the panel is split like the schematic shows, you could re-distribute the circuits and get your continuous, heavy loads on the top section and the shorter term, lighter loads on the bottom. With a 60a main for the bottom, you only really have @ 48 amps available for continuous usage there.
Your heaviest loads, assuming they are electric, should be the range, the water heater, air conditioner, and furnace (the furnace may just have a fan load if it is gas or diesel).
The 125a rating on the schematic has nothing to do with the actual service size - that is what the maximum total load for the panel busswork is.
You need to identify all the loads to really see what you've got (there could be some substantial loads that weren't on at the time you read the ammeter, or they could all just be convenience receptacles), but it's looking pretty tight for that panel and the load that you want to add. It's possible that if the panel is split like the schematic shows, you could re-distribute the circuits and get your continuous, heavy loads on the top section and the shorter term, lighter loads on the bottom. With a 60a main for the bottom, you only really have @ 48 amps available for continuous usage there.
Your heaviest loads, assuming they are electric, should be the range, the water heater, air conditioner, and furnace (the furnace may just have a fan load if it is gas or diesel).
