Grow shed vs attic grow

[queequeg152]

I hear what u are saying yea it can get expensive quick. However I will do most of the work myself. I was going to double frame the walls so they are 12 in thick. Use blown in fiberglass to get my R rating up there same with the roof Tell me more about the trusses u mentioned. I like the solitude idea maybe a 4 x 6 frame. It just pour a stem wall for a raised foundation. Should be cheaper than a slab. The ac, power and plumbing I'm not worried about because I can do that. My buddy is a ac tech and will help me with that

12 " walls? thats going to get nutty high r values, i commend you on that decision.

id suggest cellulose though? blown fiberglass is more expensive. a good well done dense pack should be marginally higher, and yet less expensive.
the only thing blown fiberglass has going is fire rating, far as i know at least.

regarding the trusses. Im talking about light gauge steel framing members.... the sorta stuff you see in office buildings?

basically you would build something very simple like a parallel chord truss.

you will probably just need just half or dozen or so truss sections, but never the less consider building a jig on plywood.

parallel chord trusses are generally not super efficient material wise, but are VERY easy to build. basically cut two sizes over and over and over and over.

dont forget the soffits over the gable. houses dont look right without proper soffits!

you could also just do a flat roof with basically a series of box truss's. but idk... i hate flat roofs for some reason.

would be even easier though. just make one side of the wall like 12 feet, and the other side 10.

 

[Hpchacrx]

i understand what u are saying with the shed cost. But I was running numbers on the attic build and it wasn't far behind. I get cost on building materials. So it may just take me longer to put together but it is important to me to build it right the first time as I hate doing things over. I will look into cellulose for insulation. I looked at foam but it looks to be a pain in the ass. I would have to foam the walls in stages as I would have to block the walls twice to build a ten or twelve foot ceiling

 

[Hpchacrx]

fiberglass bad

Why is fiberglass bad?

 

[queequeg152]

Why is fiberglass bad?

personally, id rather hammer nails through my cock than handle fiberglass. i fucking hate that shit.

that being said, properly installed modern fiberglass is 100% fine imo anyway. there are folks that are allegedly allergic to cellulose, not the case with fiberglass.

 

[queequeg152]

i understand what u are saying with the shed cost. But I was running numbers on the attic build and it wasn't far behind. I get cost on building materials. So it may just take me longer to put together but it is important to me to build it right the first time as I hate doing things over. I will look into cellulose for insulation. I looked at foam but it looks to be a pain in the ass. I would have to foam the walls in stages as I would have to block the walls twice to build a ten or twelve foot ceiling

how high is your roof pitch? have you ever spent more than like 2 hours in your attic?

attics are generally very poorly built, with howe truss members shooting all over the place.

 

[Jhhnn]

I'd suggest not going overboard on any of it. Slab floor 3" thick, deeper around the edges. Pitch it to a floor drain. You'll never regret that. 2x6 framing 16 or 24" OC, 8' tall, 3/12 gable roof w/ end vents or continuous ridge vent. Short eaves w/ gutters & downspouts. White roof. Exterior plywood or OSB sheathing. R-19 fiberglas insulation batts in the walls, R-32 in the ceiling. Faced batts or vapor barrier. Conventional door & piano hinge installed to swing out w/ metal latch guard. Small entry chamber w/ swing out door(s) for the grow space(s). Finished water resistant sheetrock interior. Flat white paint.

Find the info to do the math to size A/C to fit the load. If it's too big, it'll cycle all the time killing efficiency. Load sharing by 2 units means your crop probably has a better chance of survival should 1 crap out.

Remember the 80% continuous load rule when sizing electrical & uhh, don't try to re-invent the wheel.

 

[Midwest sticky]

a shed sounds much better i used to grow in my attic and it was a pain in the ass year round build the shed by your utility hookups insulate it good ac and heater and enjoy

 

[armedoldhippy]

personally, id rather hammer nails through my cock than handle fiberglass. i fucking hate that shit.

ya know, I hate fiberglass too, but... not THAT bad!

 

[queequeg152]

Slab floor 3" thick, deeper around the edges. Pitch it to a floor drain.

a slab is inviting huge complications to what could otherwise be a 1 person build.

a slab means you will need a large mixer and a delivery of compact able fill material and rebar. you will also need to excavate a large amount of soil.

a slab will also require insulation, of the most expensive variety... 2" XPS or XPE foam boards.

slabs, the way they've been constructed for tha last 20 or so years, are by in large dog shit. Nobody does a geo technical report, and almost nobody does a correct rebar schedule.

even post tensioned slabs are failing catastrophically after just 10 years down here in Houston. almost nobody knows how to build anything down here, and nobody gives a shit because we don't have winters.

if you want something that will last, you really need to get a geotechnical report to identify the depth of the non expansive load bearing strata, and place the load there... in the case of my hometown, Houston, that means sometimes pressing piles down 30 feet.


the cheapest solution i know of is is to press several treated telephone pole sized wood piles down into the earth, then pour a concrete footing and foundation wall onto it.

now,a shallow sonotube footing, even with a flared bell end will settle just as well. however because of the pier and beam construction, provided one has enough crawlspace acess... one can periodically jack up the structure and shim it level very easily with just a set of 60 dollar bottle jacks.

furthermore a sonotube footing has a volume of single digit cubic feet... meaning you can easily rent one of those 4 cubic foot tiny electric concrete mixers and get the job done by oneself.

tldr: slab on grade foundations are shitty.

 

[Hpchacrx]

So I called the planning commission in my county and they said that I would have to have it permitted and that's a bitch. I can build a 10 x 12 ft space with no permits. I am thinking about putting two side by side. What do u guys think? Permitting is going to a couple thousand

 

[theother]

So I called the planning commission in my county and they said that I would have to have it permitted and that's a bitch. I can build a 10 x 12 ft space with no permits. I am thinking about putting two side by side. What do u guys think? Permitting is going to a couple thousand

Are you on good terms with the neighbors?

A lot of guys get away with no permits by doing the pre fab shed thing. It's conSidered a temporary structure. Craigslist is full of ads for it. Basically they just sit on some pier blocks with girders on top. They may even leave some stickers on top of that so they can fork it around. I see tons of them pop up. Not recommending fighting the planning department while you are growing weed there though, that's just common sense.

Maybe do a versatube style building? I believe they are pre engineered, slab would still need to be inspected but many people don't bother. A decent metal building will increase the value of the land considerably depending on where you are.

Is the property more than 20 acres? If so you can consider it AG exempt.

 

[Hpchacrx]

No it's not I have about an acre with only neighbors on one side. I am thinking I will make a shed pour a slab. Do 2 x 6 construction. And just try one for now. As I am new to the game. If it goes well I will just build another one. I was just thinkin that I would rather put the money toward construction and equipment vs a permit. Does that make sense? These sheds would be out of sight by the neighbors. My property is fences around the perimeter. So it seems like a decent compromise

 

[Hpchacrx]

a slab is inviting huge complications to what could otherwise be a 1 person build.

a slab means you will need a large mixer and a delivery of compact able fill material and rebar. you will also need to excavate a large amount of soil.

a slab will also require insulation, of the most expensive variety... 2" XPS or XPE foam boards.

slabs, the way they've been constructed for tha last 20 or so years, are by in large dog shit. Nobody does a geo technical report, and almost nobody does a correct rebar schedule.

even post tensioned slabs are failing catastrophically after just 10 years down here in Houston. almost nobody knows how to build anything down here, and nobody gives a shit because we don't have winters.

if you want something that will last, you really need to get a geotechnical report to identify the depth of the non expansive load bearing strata, and place the load there... in the case of my hometown, Houston, that means sometimes pressing piles down 30 feet.


the cheapest solution i know of is is to press several treated telephone pole sized wood piles down into the earth, then pour a concrete footing and foundation wall onto it.

now,a shallow sonotube footing, even with a flared bell end will settle just as well. however because of the pier and beam construction, provided one has enough crawlspace acess... one can periodically jack up the structure and shim it level very easily with just a set of 60 dollar bottle jacks.

furthermore a sonotube footing has a volume of single digit cubic feet... meaning you can easily rent one of those 4 cubic foot tiny electric concrete mixers and get the job done by oneself.

tldr: slab on grade foundations are shitty.

I hear what u are saying I'm out here on the left coast so the issues u have in down there aren't as much of an issue. So I appreciate ur concern but a 10 x 12 should be much less of a pain then the 10 x 20 footprint I wanted initially

 

[Hpchacrx]

Is a 10 x 12 ft platform enough to do a 6-8 plant grow going very bare bulb on a ppk system?

 

[Jhhnn]

a slab is inviting huge complications to what could otherwise be a 1 person build.

a slab means you will need a large mixer and a delivery of compact able fill material and rebar. you will also need to excavate a large amount of soil.

a slab will also require insulation, of the most expensive variety... 2" XPS or XPE foam boards.

slabs, the way they've been constructed for tha last 20 or so years, are by in large dog shit. Nobody does a geo technical report, and almost nobody does a correct rebar schedule.

even post tensioned slabs are failing catastrophically after just 10 years down here in Houston. almost nobody knows how to build anything down here, and nobody gives a shit because we don't have winters.

if you want something that will last, you really need to get a geotechnical report to identify the depth of the non expansive load bearing strata, and place the load there... in the case of my hometown, Houston, that means sometimes pressing piles down 30 feet.


the cheapest solution i know of is is to press several treated telephone pole sized wood piles down into the earth, then pour a concrete footing and foundation wall onto it.

now,a shallow sonotube footing, even with a flared bell end will settle just as well. however because of the pier and beam construction, provided one has enough crawlspace acess... one can periodically jack up the structure and shim it level very easily with just a set of 60 dollar bottle jacks.

furthermore a sonotube footing has a volume of single digit cubic feet... meaning you can easily rent one of those 4 cubic foot tiny electric concrete mixers and get the job done by oneself.

tldr: slab on grade foundations are shitty.

Please. I've done this before. It's not a house- it's a shed.

Level the site. Dig it a little deeper around the edges. Set the forms. Dig a trench for the drain, pitch it down 1/4"/ft. If the lot allows drainage to the surface, do that. If not, dig a dry sump. It doesn't need to have the same sort of capabilities as a sewer or septic system because it won't get a lot of water. Set the drain at the proper height, backfill, tamp the whole thing, water very well to get it to settle. wait til it dries, roll out some wire mesh. Forget insulation. It's a shed. Contact with the earth will stabilize interior temps to some degree. If possible, set it up so that a cement truck can back in close enough to offload down the chute. Line up a cement finisher & a couple of laborers & wheelbarrows if necessary & if your buddies don't have those skills.

Or just hire a contractor for that phase of the work.

Alternatively, after leveling, tamping & puddling the site, lay down a layer of coarse gravel, set concrete pavers down under what will be the perimeter of the shed, set a framed base of pressure treated 2x6's on top of that, 3/4" OSB & a sheet of vinyl flooring.

The latter is cheaper & easier.

 

[queequeg152]

So I called the planning commission in my county and they said that I would have to have it permitted and that's a bitch. I can build a 10 x 12 ft space with no permits. I am thinking about putting two side by side. What do u guys think? Permitting is going to a couple thousand

Why exactly is permitting going to be thousands? do they need signed sealed drawings? elevation certificates, surveys etc?

usually these things are required for undeveloped lots only, and for major extensions such as detached garages and guest houses.

if you or a recent homowner has access to a site survey, or even the origional title survey you would have somewhere to start.

check out municode.com btw.

i used to get handed these shit sandwich jobs back when i worked as a newb draftsman/project manager.... its not difficult to make something happen in most cases... unless you are in a flood plain or river basin or some harsh shit.

we had a rich couple living in as very affluent area of houston, in a flood plain (cough: piny point), they wanted to sling a pool into their multi million dollar house and hired us to deal with the city... i think we ended up billing low 5 figures, but this was a fucking nightmare bureaucratic hand job. nightmare for them i mean... for us it was all gravy.

if they just need engineered drawings, and pulled permits for utilities, your best option(imo) would be to get a pre engineered building. the company that guarantees the building will have a staff engineer, and his seal will be on the drawings provided.
then you can get electricians and plumbers to pull your utility permits.

otherwise you will need to find a registered architect or engineer that is willing to sign drawings not of his own make and specification. most engineers will not bother with this, but it is possible you could get someone to eye the drawings and seal them for around 500 bucks.

why so much for a stamp? liability mostly...an engineers seal is legally binding ...if some home burnt down and ruined someones fancy garage full of motor cycles and 4 wheelers, the insurance company will look for a person to hold liable.

 

[Hpchacrx]

Why exactly is permitting going to be thousands? do they need signed sealed drawings? elevation certificates, surveys etc?

usually these things are required for undeveloped lots only, and for major extensions such as detached garages and guest houses.

if you or a recent homowner has access to a site survey, or even the origional title survey you would have somewhere to start.

check out municode.com btw.

i used to get handed these shit sandwich jobs back when i worked as a newb draftsman/project manager.... its not difficult to make something happen in most cases... unless you are in a flood plain or river basin or some harsh shit.

we had a rich couple living in as very affluent area of houston, in a flood plain (cough: piny point), they wanted to sling a pool into their multi million dollar house and hired us to deal with the city... i think we ended up billing low 5 figures, but this was a fucking nightmare bureaucratic hand job. nightmare for them i mean... for us it was all gravy.

if they just need engineered drawings, and pulled permits for utilities, your best option(imo) would be to get a pre engineered building. the company that guarantees the building will have a staff engineer, and his seal will be on the drawings provided.
then you can get electricians and plumbers to pull your utility permits.

otherwise you will need to find a registered architect or engineer that is willing to sign drawings not of his own make and specification. most engineers will not bother with this, but it is possible you could get someone to eye the drawings and seal them for around 500 bucks.

why so much for a stamp? liability mostly...an engineers seal is legally binding ...if some home burnt down and ruined someones fancy garage full of motor cycles and 4 wheelers, the insurance company will look for a person to hold liable.

Well here in the republic of California red tape is a bitch. I don't really have the scratch right now to do a metal building. To hire a contractor and all that shit nor the time to deal with that large of a project. If it was just a stick built she's that would be easier. I guess I just didn't realize what an undertaking this was going to become

 

[Jellyfish]

True, but you said in the first post that you were planning to build a shed anyway. So these guys gave you a reality check, you shouldn't give up.

I still think it's a better idea than using your attic, but then again, I haven't seen your attic.

But my personal experience with an attic was bad enough that I wouldn't even think about it again.

my two cents worth

 

[queequeg152]

Please. I've done this before. It's not a house- it's a shed.

Level the site. Dig it a little deeper around the edges. Set the forms. Dig a trench for the drain, pitch it down 1/4"/ft. If the lot allows drainage to the surface, do that. If not, dig a dry sump. It doesn't need to have the same sort of capabilities as a sewer or septic system because it won't get a lot of water. Set the drain at the proper height, backfill, tamp the whole thing, water very well to get it to settle. wait til it dries, roll out some wire mesh. Forget insulation. It's a shed. Contact with the earth will stabilize interior temps to some degree. If possible, set it up so that a cement truck can back in close enough to offload down the chute. Line up a cement finisher & a couple of laborers & wheelbarrows if necessary & if your buddies don't have those skills.

Or just hire a contractor for that phase of the work.

Alternatively, after leveling, tamping & puddling the site, lay down a layer of coarse gravel, set concrete pavers down under what will be the perimeter of the shed, set a framed base of pressure treated 2x6's on top of that, 3/4" OSB & a sheet of vinyl flooring.

The latter is cheaper & easier.

yes im sure you have built plenty of shit boxes. building things properly after all is the exception rather than the rule since home owners don't care in most cases. lowest bidder will always win the job.

site prep is very important for a slab on grade. its funny that you can spec a slab without even knowing what the site conditions are.
even assuming he has very stable earth, and a well draining area. you at a minimum have to excavate all of the organic material and top soil, 6 inches in some cases, excavate more to allow for the compact able fill, compact aggressively, and then throw down steel.
And yes depending on his climate, you absolutely should insulate the slab.

unless you live in the hottest of climates, you should at least insulate the perimeter. why? because it costs nothing. 1" foam costs something like 30-50 cents a square. thats 30-50 cents per lineal foot for a 1' deep footing.

yes i agree an agressivly insulated slab is hard to justify in zone one 2 3 maby 4, but perimeter insulation, perhaps but for zone 1 should always be included in new construction.

when i was learning load calcs, i did the manual j for my moms old place, and found something like 800btuh heat loss estimated from the uninsulated perimeter. 800 btuh was nothing, around 1% of the heat loss, but when to take into account time scales, it does not make sense to omit such a simple thing, when it is so fucking easy to include in the form work.

 

[queequeg152]

Well here in the republic of California red tape is a bitch. I don't really have the scratch right now to do a metal building. To hire a contractor and all that shit nor the time to deal with that large of a project. If it was just a stick built she's that would be easier. I guess I just didn't realize what an undertaking this was going to become

i was not suggesting a metal building, im referring to the myriad of folks selling these prefab shed buildings or "kits", that come either entirely put together, or come as a set of walls and shitty flat roof.

they should come with a set of engineering specifications laying out wind loads etc, and in some cases a set of engineered dimensional drawings.

these specs, could possibly satisfy the county, though they might still want to see plans for the foundation.