Green Mountain Seeds distribution agreement with ACE Seeds

[hamstring]

@hamstring FWIW I have also seen this kind of spiraling leaves (on a different strain), did absolutely nothing, and everything turned out great.

You mention the heavy rains and them releasing a lot of fertilizer. Do you think they could just be waterlogged?

Thanks for reply.
No not water logged but interested in why you mention that. I have grown weed where it gets flooded for short periods and does fine. Actually have kayaked right up up to weed that has 2 ft of water around it.

Always willing to learn something new though.

 

[hamstring]

Hey @hamstring I see that you say in another post that you are in the farm belt. I have a feeling that there is a chance that what you are seeing is dicamba damage. How close to a corn or soy field are your plants?

Ok this is new to me. Yes everywhere i grow has beans and corn near it. None of of my GG4, thats in the same plot, are showing this leaf curl so not sure its dicamba damage. Tell me more about dicamba damage because i have never had this happen but I'm sure I will.

 

[goingrey]

Thanks for reply.
No not water logged but interested in why you mention that. I have grown weed where it gets flooded for short periods and does fine. Actually have kayaked right up up to weed that has 2 ft of water around it.

Always willing to learn something new though.

Could def have been the cause in my case, plants were drenched to keep alive while I was away.. And purple stems, which could be because of many reasons, but one of them overwatering.

 

[hamstring]

Could def have been the cause in my case, plants were drenched to keep alive while I was away.. And purple stems, which could be because of many reasons, but one of them overwatering.

Oh ok I see. Yes the purple stems are a part of the strains traits or at least thats my understanding. Thanks brother I appreciate the input. Good luck to you this year.

 

[@peace]

Some broadleaf (soybean, cannabis, tomatoes) plants can be more susceptible to damage than others. I was trying to look for other annual broadleaves in your pictures for damage also, didn't see any, but the leaf curl is a hallmark for the type of damage dicamba causes. It may not be the cause of the twist in your case, but if it is dicamba it will also cause a twist.

Many farmers in the midwest spray crops with glyphosate as many know. Certain weeds selected over millions of acres are naturally resistant to glyphosate and don't die when sprayed. To combat this Monsanto, and now Bayer, created crops that were resistant to dicamba as well as glyphosate. This way the weeds that don't get killed by glyphosate get killed by dicamba. The problem is that dicamba is a very old school product and is very volatile. By volatile I mean that when a farmer sprays it, certain weather conditions can cause it to "gas off" and lift from the field where it was sprayed to neighbouring sites. I have seen many fields of soybeans that were hit by off target dicamba, in them it can causes severe leaf puckering and twisting. If the doses are high enough it can kill them, low enough it just causes a bit of a yield drag, and the perfect amount will actually increase yield (which rarely happens). The year these dicamba crops were released there were instances of farmers killing each other over the damage it was causing. Google "farmer kills over dicamba".

The herbicide acts on hormones in the plant and effectively makes them grow to death, hence the twisting and curling. I saw after I posted that you had replied prior with having put them under 12/12 prior though so I am less confident about the dicamba potential, could just be genetic.

 

[Lotto]

Looks like herbicide drift to me. As likely to occur in residential areas as it is in cropland areas. 2,4D or dicamba even glyphosate can cause this. Why only one plant is puzzling. These systemic chemicals can linger for some time as they move through the tissue into the roots. None are good for the plant or you but glyphosate will move through the plant quickest. I sure hope the plant snaps out of it.

 

[hamstring]

Lotto & Peace

Hey I want to thank you for you input but as Peace said its not showing up on any native veg or on my other strain at the same plot.

This looks either like a nute problem or possibly as mentioned earlier a re-veg of some sorts. Please keep in mind the the leaf finger count change from 7 to 3 to 1 finger leaves. If this is not strain related it has to be one of the clues to be considered.

Again i welcome and appreciate all input just wanted to make sure not get focused only on the leaf curl as there are other possible clues to take into account when diagnosing the problem.

 

[Cactus Squatter]

Cactus
Thanks for the reply. Fingers crossed you are right but I have never seen this before. They were put out the first week of June and didn't show this leaf twist until now. All the plants are now 6ft tall . I have earlier pics in this thread that didnt show any signs of this. I will say, to sex them, I switched to 12/12 for 3 or 4 days but switched them back right away.

Just seems weird that they are showing this over a month after I transplanted them. Tell me more about the single blade leaf being part of the re-veg process? I wasn't aware of this but never re-veged before either.

If you take cuttings from a plant in flower, or take a flowering plant and put it back on a long light cycle it will revert to a vegetative state and stop flowering. Usually.
As it does so, it will put out all kinds of weird looking leaves. Single bladed/non-serrated/whirly/3 bladed ducks feet lookin leaves etc.
after they stabilize in veg they will throw normal leaves again.

Yours should grow out fine and produce for you. My PS is currently already about 1.5 weeks into flower.

 

[Cactus Squatter]

Usually when I see herbicide drift (really bad issues at my old house near a corn plot) in addition to the whirled leaves, it would also make them look very veiny. Large raised, twisted up blood vessel looking veins on shrunken/tight leaves. It will also usually effect more than one plant in the garden.

 

[hamstring]

If you take cuttings from a plant in flower, or take a flowering plant and put it back on a long light cycle it will revert to a vegetative state and stop flowering. Usually.
As it does so, it will put out all kinds of weird looking leaves. Single bladed/non-serrated/whirly/3 bladed ducks feet lookin leaves etc.
after they stabilize in veg they will throw normal leaves again.

Yours should grow out fine and produce for you. My PS is currently already about 1.5 weeks into flower.

Interesting, I was wondering about that because PS is supposed to finish in mid September, maybe I have to much N in my soil mix. Not sure but really appreciate your input because we are both growing PS. Just FYI I'm at 52 deg N.

Normally we dont see flowering on most strains until August but I would have to believe for a mid September finish it should be flowering now. I'll wait until Vermont Man jumps on. My main concern is hermi's. I dont want any pollen hitting my GG4s if I can help it.

 

[Taima-da]

FWIW, I agree with Cactus, lightly twisted or scrunched growth is something that can happen regularly in early reveg.
The single blades are a giveaway.
Looks a lot like the GMG that I started a few weeks too early last year.
Sometimes vigour diminishes too and for me last year that led to heavy leaf septoria due to continuous and heavy rain unfortunately, though they still produced something.

 

[goingrey]

So why the reveg in July? The excess N is enough to do it?

 

[Taima-da]

Triggered by shorter spring hours... Reveg triggered by lengthening days of summer...

 

[goingrey]

The days have been getting shorter for three weeks. And were pretty long when they went out. Might be because of the pre-sexing?

 

[Cactus Squatter]

My guess is you had them under long enough light hours indoors, that setting them out in June slightly triggered it.

I’ve noticed everything with this Oaxacan in it really want to get to flowering. I’m not even messing with indoor seedlings next year with GM stuff, I’m going to start pretty much immediately in early June outdoors and just let them do their thing.

 

[Cactus Squatter]

Interesting, I was wondering about that because PS is supposed to finish in mid September, maybe I have to much N in my soil mix. Not sure but really appreciate your input because we are both growing PS. Just FYI I'm at 52 deg N.

Normally we dont see flowering on most strains until August but I would have to believe for a mid September finish it should be flowering now. I'll wait until Vermont Man jumps on. My main concern is hermi's. I dont want any pollen hitting my GG4s if I can help it.

I’m at 33°N

 

[goingrey]

Yeah could be. So the Oaxacan is like a semi-auto?

 

[Cactus Squatter]

I don’t think so, I think it’s more just fast when the daylight hours shift. Mine sat indoors in veg for a long time without any issues but the second I went outside and didn’t have a light on them for 4 days they decided it was flower time.
I had forgotten to plug the extension cord to my timer back in so I got the 4 day oops.

 

[@peace]

Usually when I see herbicide drift (really bad issues at my old house near a corn plot) in addition to the whirled leaves, it would also make them look very veiny. Large raised, twisted up blood vessel looking veins on shrunken/tight leaves. It will also usually effect more than one plant in the garden.

Different herbicides have different modes of action, i.e. different ways they kill plants. Dicamba is in the synthetic auxin family, some sprays kill by blocking chlorophyll production, others block root development of emerging plants. For standard field crops there are really good guides to assessing what type of spray damage different chemicals cause. I was able to find a similar one for hemp. It is attached here as a link. I also found a video of dicamba damage on hemp for those interested.

https://extension.oregonstate.edu/sites/default/files/documents/9901/herbicide-damage-symptoms-hemp.pdf

I do agree with you though and feel that his plants are being effected by the re-veg. I think he has all 6 of his purple satellites effected though, not just one.

 

[hamstring]

Different herbicides have different modes of action, i.e. different ways they kill plants. Dicamba is in the synthetic auxin family, some sprays kill by blocking chlorophyll production, others block root development of emerging plants. For standard field crops there are really good guides to assessing what type of spray damage different chemicals cause. I was able to find a similar one for hemp. It is attached here as a link. I also found a video of dicamba damage on hemp for those interested.

https://extension.oregonstate.edu/sites/default/files/documents/9901/herbicide-damage-symptoms-hemp.pdf

I do agree with you though and feel that his plants are being effected by the re-veg. I think he has all 6 of his purple satellites effected though, not just one.

Cool video .

There is some real leave twisting going on on the last plant. If I read it correctly though the amount of Dicamba was the most (1X) in that one. I do agree it looks like my leaves but it only shows on one strain so i don,t think thats it.

I understand you were showing the video for the ICMAG community and appreciate it. Knowledge is power brother and power to the people.