Grandpa’s Red Lemon Thai by Prempavee

[Sub24ox7]

It happens. Should be expected of a line that’s not worked.

It’s a Thai line there probably are no males.

A good firm thai male is a unicorn

 

[BC LONE WOLF]

Yep, just reporting the news.

My “sixth sense” was unsettled about these two males.

But plant number 6, we are ending the fourth week of 10/14 and there are maybe 4-5 pistils on the entire plant.

That slow start can be a good sign.

Thanks for sharing

 

[BC LONE WOLF]

It’s a Thai line there probably are no males.

A good firm thai male is a unicorn

Thanks for saying, I’m definitely not a Thai expert. Question for ya;

Does that mean a Thai like Ace does not have a firm male? If found is that a unicorn?

I found several stable males in my Filipino genotype.

 

[Sub24ox7]

Neither am I, I’ve not grown aces but I would say they are also no actual males. I have grown a few Thai lines and I found this to be true and what I hear from others.

 

[BC LONE WOLF]

The lack of males on a line could explain open pollination with no selection, making the progeny exponentially build up females only and/or the few male donors to be not firm or not true males.

 

[Sub24ox7]

They are x to autosome most south East Asian lines versus xy.
No y so they are all female really with male inflorescence

 

[BC LONE WOLF]

It’s that just a genetic trait ?
Or is it result/consequence of perpetual inbreeding, without human intervention? Like culling monoecious phenotypes.

If one never removes the monoecious Geno/phenotypes it’s going to exponentially increase your population of female tendency and lower to nil the male tendency, it will only be a tendency as no pure genotype left in the pool from monoecious inbreeding.

I just never seen a landrace gene pool not have males from start?

 

[GrandpaMillenial]

It’s a Thai line there probably are no males.

A good firm thai male is a unicorn

I had 2 firm males (3 hermie males also) outta my last squirrel tail run. That was like outta 12 seed.

 

[therealpacific]

The lack of males on a line could explain open pollination with no selection, making the progeny exponentially build up females only and/or the few male donors to be not firm or not true males.

more to that statement than meets the eye.

 

[BC LONE WOLF]

more to that statement than meets the eye.

I’m just trying to wrap my head around what’s previously said about SEAsian lines not having XY but only XX…?

Been using a Filipino genotype, that was seeded (open field pollination) and I have had 3 solid males, when I say solid it’s impossible to herm.

I have used those males with inbreed lines and the progeny bings male count up.

So what I have been doing is contradicting to what was said earlier.

Ace chiang mai is a worked line, when I read worked I understand the breeder culled undesirable traits like monoecious plants, runts, weak traits, if no males in that line well the breeder didn’t use a male to create seeds, but a female that was selfed and that pollen spread…

That’s what I’m thinking.

Now if I was to grab the same Filipino genotype and put some pollen on the chiang mai, 100% males will appear.

——
I just wanted to make note that I used Ace as example and not a fact. Hypothetical scenario

 

[therealpacific]

I’m just trying to wrap my head around what’s previously said about SEAsian lines not having XY but only XX…?

Been using a Filipino genotype, that was seeded (open field pollination) and I have had 3 solid males, when I say solid it’s impossible to herm.

I have used those males with inbreed lines and the progeny bings male count up.

So what I have been doing is contradicting to what was said earlier.

Ace chiang mai is a worked line, when I read worked I understand the breeder culled undesirable traits like monoecious plants, runts, weak traits, if no males in that line well the breeder didn’t use a male to create seeds, but a female that was selfed and that pollen spread…

That’s what I’m thinking.

Now if I was to grab the same Filipino genotype and put some pollen on the chiang mai, 100% males will appear.

——
I just wanted to make note that I used Ace as example and not a fact. Hypothetical scenario

While I have no proof, all the anecdotal evidence I have seen indicates that successive open pollinations increases the number of plants that are non photosensitive in a given population. Plants that are non photosensitive i.e. flower easier and earlier will have a higher representation in the new generation,This is why, I believe for years a lot of the top breeders who I won't name but we all know select males from the recessive/non-dominant side of the spectrum and don't do that many open pollinations. It adds stability and a stronger photosensitivity to the line. That is plants that are more dependent on photoperiod for the induction of flowering. Thereby reducing intersexes and making for stronger "male" and "female" lines regardless of the latitude of origin. Again only my opinion and don't want to trainwreck someone else's thread, but maybe a topic for another thread.

 

[BC LONE WOLF]

Thanks for sharing, all info is helpful. Grandpa apologies if we side tracked. Great journal

 

[GrandpaMillenial]

Thanks for sharing, all info is helpful. Grandpa apologies if we side tracked. Great journal

lol no problem, but yeah we don’t have all the facts on herms. I agree that its an autosomal trait (on non sex determinate chromosome).

My current belief is that their are still good x/y plants out there and they need to be stress tested to shake out the plants with herm genetics.

Its gonna take lots of plants to find those without herm genetics and the most desirable traits.

 

[BC LONE WOLF]

lol no problem, but yeah we don’t have all the facts on herms. I agree that its an autosomal trait (on non sex determinate chromosome).

My current belief is that their are still good x/y plants out there and they need to be stress tested to shake out the plants with herm genetics.

Its gonna take lots of plants to find those without herm genetics and the most desirable traits.

I'm pretty worried my light dep isn't well received with my SEasian line up at the moment, for now 2 chiang mai seem female, the taller one has fat bracts so Im thinking this one will be monoecious flower. I wont kill it, it will still be used with other clones to check progeny. Within a monoecious plant population there will be all variables XX, XY, and any other variation, but I have no lab to test percentages, just good old fashion grow a shit load of them and see...

 

[GrandpaMillenial]

I'm pretty worried my light dep isn't well received with my SEasian line up at the moment, for now 2 chiang mai seem female, the taller one has fat bracts so Im thinking this one will be monoecious flower. I wont kill it, it will still be used with other clones to check progeny. Within a monoecious plant population there will be all variables XX, XY, and any other variation, but I have no lab to test percentages, just good old fashion grow a shit load of them and see...

Last i checked a dna test on cannabis which just determined X Y was around $10.

Maybe collect a few keepers and test them.

 

[zaprjaques]

lovely thread.

 

[GrandpaMillenial]

lovely thread.

Thanks bro, about 12-13 weeks left!

 

[BC LONE WOLF]

Article on monoecious plants in cannabis.

Why not XY? Male monoecious sexual phenotypes challenge the female monoecious paradigm in Cannabis sativa L.

Monoecy in Cannabis sativa L. has long been considered an industrially important trait due to the increased uniformity it offers and was thought to be exclusively associated with XX females. The isolation and characterisation of a monoecious individual ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[GrandpaMillenial]

Article on monoecious plants in cannabis.

Why not XY? Male monoecious sexual phenotypes challenge the female monoecious paradigm in Cannabis sativa L.

Monoecy in Cannabis sativa L. has long been considered an industrially important trait due to the increased uniformity it offers and was thought to be exclusively associated with XX females. The isolation and characterisation of a monoecious individual ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Great read, It actually points out that breeding with these herm’d plants is good for cbd production and more uniform plants… which are two things… Im not really growing towards, and it proves that herms can be genetically male or female. Glad I was on the right track!

 

[GrandpaMillenial]

32 days of 10/14

Plants are looking good, i did let the plants accidentally get a little bit drier than they should and got a bit of yellowing on some older fans. But overall they are doing good.

Starting out, relaxing the net.

4 of the plants are flowering along and developing really well.

But that plant 6, she is still stretching and barely flowering. She seems to be a pheno that is holding on to those older thai lines.

A little adjustment and new ties in place.

Im getting a menthol, a mango, 2 that are sorta mango/menthol combined, 1 plant is a little earthy skunky