Well,I know nothing except that Looserdaddy been beat down in every single encounterevery single one,can ya smell that
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Genetic Drift?
- Thread starter krunchbubble
- Start date
Well,I know nothing except that Looserdaddy been beat down in every single encounterevery single one,can ya smell that
cannaboy
Member
Thank you sam Head is good but not that good IMHO,,
He changed it!! I thought give him time..
There is many things not understood by many ,,,,,
Look mabe we are all learning new things,,, Too many coinsidences for me!!!!
I KNOW I KNOW WHAT I KNOW I CAN SEE and you will all have to read my books when they come out as I have done to people before me,,,
I respect Sam S MORE than all you amatures NO OFFENCE,, I love you all the same Its just Real hard to get good stuff and BY FAR IS SAM THE SKUNKMANS AND HIS SFUFF IS THE BEST BY A LONG SHOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
MOST ARE PISSING IN THE WIND!!!!
The Bi anual I saw wasn't 1 of yours sam, , But I have sene no other genetics do this but LANDRACES..
This phenomina is a strange 1 but if the conditions are what the genes need then ???????
I also knew I wasn't the only one who has sene this phenomina,,,
Not too many people leave things in a good garden for a second year as the plants are Illegal???
"All trained scientists admit that scientific truth is ultimately probabilistic, even when the probabilities appear to be approaching certainty." -- Stuart D. Jordan
"I am quite content to go down to posterity as a scissors and paste man for that seems to me a harsh but not unjust description" — James Joyce(Lettres, tome 1)
You thought I would given time... lol... methinks I smell posing.
I'd rather transpose words in a sentence than use completely bogus terms.
biannual mean twice in one year.
biennial means a plant with a life cycle that is completed in two years or seasons, with the second season usually devoted to flowering and fruiting.
perennial means a plant whose life cycle lasts for three or more seasons; Lasting year after year.
Does this mythological biennial plant grow a primacane the first year which becomes a floricane the second year?
I'd rather transpose words in a sentence than use completely bogus terms.
biannual mean twice in one year.
biennial means a plant with a life cycle that is completed in two years or seasons, with the second season usually devoted to flowering and fruiting.
perennial means a plant whose life cycle lasts for three or more seasons; Lasting year after year.
Does this mythological biennial plant grow a primacane the first year which becomes a floricane the second year?
cannaboy
Member
We would say this specific specimen (mother) when cloned presents different phenos in different locations
OR
This specimen has been ovbserved showing different phenotypical charachteristics in seperate enviroments ,,, some not so good!!!
on second thought, I'm not sure about this either...
since I have had other Colombian Sativas go for 14 months... that plant took eight months before it started to flower!
I left it go for another 6 months and harvested it, but it could have gone for longer. and within those 6 months, I thought many times it was ready to harvest, but it started to grow new pistils again so I allowed it to go on and on... I wonder how long it would have done that for if allowed to ?
both are correct usages.
Phenotype simply means physical attributes.
Tall is a phenotype.
Purple is a phenotype.
Citrus aroma is a phenotype.
Slow flowering is a phenotype.
any physical characteristic of an organism it a phenotype.
Cannabis is definitely not a biennial. A good example of a biennial plant is the blackberry. A blackberry cane spends it's entire first growing season vegging, and it's second full growing season fruiting.
If cannabis was biennial it would need to go through two cycles of 12/12 and would not begin to flower until the second one.
If it was "bi annual" (a scheduling term not a botanical term) then it would flower completely in spring and again in fall during the same year.
If you meant both, then you are mistaken on both counts.
cannaboy
Member
Head you know all about botany and I only dabble,, a blackberry cane might be as you say but I get fruit the first year I'll take some pick and show you how wrong you are though your not wrong just mislead!!!! We are talking Enviroment this is the key to all Genetic drift!!!!!!!!!!
We are there well done!!!!!!!
I do grow fruit and my grandmother was an award winning grower with many a orchid and some of the first domestic polly tunnels for her market garden....
i wish i was OLDER!!!!
We are there well done!!!!!!!
I do grow fruit and my grandmother was an award winning grower with many a orchid and some of the first domestic polly tunnels for her market garden....
i wish i was OLDER!!!!
This threads been a very interesting read Ive been trying to get a handle on genetic drift and epigenetics. This threads been enlightening thanks to all of the contributors.
I don't know all about botany, but I do have a firm grasp on the subject matter.
I've have worked on blackberry farms.
First year growth does not flower, except in engineered varieties like prime-ark.
Go Hogs Go. Woooooo Pig Sooooie.
Cuzin_Dave
Active member
It is almost impossible to avoid genetic drift unless the Ne or effective breeding population is around 7000 plants. It is a numbers game with respect to preserving alleles in a population and creating a true breeding line. Once a line has been genetically bottlenecked there isn't much one can do to replace the lost diversity.
Pollinating a select clone with a select male plant really doesn't do much to enhance the diversity.
Another term for genetic drift is sampling error and the smaller the effective Ne the higher the probability of that happening, simply as a random event. Its been a long time since I studied quantitative genetics, but the math and probabilities get pretty daunting when the population is very small.
Pollinating a select clone with a select male plant really doesn't do much to enhance the diversity.
Another term for genetic drift is sampling error and the smaller the effective Ne the higher the probability of that happening, simply as a random event. Its been a long time since I studied quantitative genetics, but the math and probabilities get pretty daunting when the population is very small.
key-term being:
a good follow-up question would be:
how does one identify an effective breeding population?
peace
a good follow-up question would be:
how does one identify an effective breeding population?
peace
Breeding Population = available numbers.
1 in 3 crosses are normally good to grow and smoke, regardless of how many plants they were selected from,, or what other's say,, IME. We've selected males plants 1 on 1 ,,, and 1 in 200 ,,, with similar results in lineage and smoke patterns.
1. Many "breeders" get 'anal' about numbers,, while others dont really give a ****!
2. Keeping a keen eye out for nice plants in the garden,, out figures ANY numbers,, (since even a tw*t can select the wrong plant from a million specimens in the field).. the extra semantics,, logistics,, statistics,, and even lineage (in some cases) are the result of hearsay in many cases... trumpet blowing,, no more.
3. Mindful breeding is mindful breeding,, and the genetics follow.
As we say "erb is a plant" ,, try not to get bogged down by that,, it's still a plant. If ya plant line drifts,, then grow another one,, cause plants grow old.. lol
Peace n flowers all
1 in 3 crosses are normally good to grow and smoke, regardless of how many plants they were selected from,, or what other's say,, IME. We've selected males plants 1 on 1 ,,, and 1 in 200 ,,, with similar results in lineage and smoke patterns.
1. Many "breeders" get 'anal' about numbers,, while others dont really give a ****!
2. Keeping a keen eye out for nice plants in the garden,, out figures ANY numbers,, (since even a tw*t can select the wrong plant from a million specimens in the field).. the extra semantics,, logistics,, statistics,, and even lineage (in some cases) are the result of hearsay in many cases... trumpet blowing,, no more.
3. Mindful breeding is mindful breeding,, and the genetics follow.
As we say "erb is a plant" ,, try not to get bogged down by that,, it's still a plant. If ya plant line drifts,, then grow another one,, cause plants grow old.. lol
Peace n flowers all
DJ worked wonders when making his BlueBlerry,,
some peeps think DJ`s BB is the best weed in the world,,,,,,but DJ messed up by using too many already inbred 1:1 mating with sample sizes of less than 50 plants!!,,,,i dont want my lifes work showing problems, so im trying to learn from DJ`s mistakes,,,,
properly maintain germplasm is not a kids game,,,,,,,hopefull 1day "when i grow up" i play the game propperly,,,please god!
if for several generations you cross all your already half sib plants to a single male. you will get a seedlot that lacks vigor,,but if you ask me the main problem with selecting from small population numbers is "accumulated deleterious recessive genes."
sometimes its just not an option to just grow another seedline,,,,,,being self sufficiant is parramount
some peeps think DJ`s BB is the best weed in the world,,,,,,but DJ messed up by using too many already inbred 1:1 mating with sample sizes of less than 50 plants!!,,,,i dont want my lifes work showing problems, so im trying to learn from DJ`s mistakes,,,,
properly maintain germplasm is not a kids game,,,,,,,hopefull 1day "when i grow up" i play the game propperly,,,please god!
if for several generations you cross all your already half sib plants to a single male. you will get a seedlot that lacks vigor,,but if you ask me the main problem with selecting from small population numbers is "accumulated deleterious recessive genes."
sometimes its just not an option to just grow another seedline,,,,,,being self sufficiant is parramount
It's nice weed,, esp. the gun-metal grey plants,, but both Blueberry and Flo display hermaphrodite traits,, thus not so wonderful... unless arguably explained away by pages and pages of text. IMO really good genetics speak for themselves in the garden. No discredit to any of the breeders involved
If it flicks ya switches , then why not turn it on man,, just watch it doesn't drift !
Peace out
Cuzin_Dave
Active member
Bombadil360. Here is my brief explanation of Ne.
Effective breeding population is one of the most basic parameters of population genetics. The idealised Ne is by definition infinitely large and diverse and fully represents all the potential genetic expressions in the population.
The actual calculation is fairly simple arithmetic and goes as follows:
Ne = 4 * (# of Males) * (# of Females) / (# of Males) + (# of Females)
For example a grower selects 1 male and 500 females for breeding. The effective breeding population is; (4) * (1) * (500) / (500+1) = 4. The effective breeding population can never be larger than the number of males selected for breeding. Another example 50 males 10 females Ne becomes 2000/60 or 33.33.
I read the article by DJ Short regarding his breeding of the famous Blueberry wherein he states that he only uses one male for his breeding selections. That might help explain why Blueberry is so resistant to breeding improvement. To quote, "Second, I select only one male from any single breeding project. Again, this simplifies things and avoids mistakes enormously. That male is generally selected at about the third week in the flowering cycle, unless it is a clone from another project".
By and large most cannabis breeders tend to ignore matters like effective breeding population when making their selections for males.
To expand on the basic concept of Ne one must consider how Ne effects the F statistic (Coefficient of Inbreeding).
So let's assume an NE of say 4. The decline in heterozygosity or rate of inbreeding at from the first generation would be: F1 = (1) / (2 * Ne) or 1 / (2 * 4) = .125.
With each subsequent generation the decline in heterozygosity is cumulative. Take generation F6
F6 = 1 - (1 - F1) ^ 6 = 1 - (1 - .125) ^ 6 = .551
By the 6th generation 55% of the genetic diversity will have been lost in the line. By the 12th generation 1 - (.87.5) ^ 12 = 80 % of the genetic diversity will have been eliminated.
The larger the Ne the lower the rate is the actual loss of diversity through inbreeding.
Effective breeding population is one of the most basic parameters of population genetics. The idealised Ne is by definition infinitely large and diverse and fully represents all the potential genetic expressions in the population.
The actual calculation is fairly simple arithmetic and goes as follows:
Ne = 4 * (# of Males) * (# of Females) / (# of Males) + (# of Females)
For example a grower selects 1 male and 500 females for breeding. The effective breeding population is; (4) * (1) * (500) / (500+1) = 4. The effective breeding population can never be larger than the number of males selected for breeding. Another example 50 males 10 females Ne becomes 2000/60 or 33.33.
I read the article by DJ Short regarding his breeding of the famous Blueberry wherein he states that he only uses one male for his breeding selections. That might help explain why Blueberry is so resistant to breeding improvement. To quote, "Second, I select only one male from any single breeding project. Again, this simplifies things and avoids mistakes enormously. That male is generally selected at about the third week in the flowering cycle, unless it is a clone from another project".
By and large most cannabis breeders tend to ignore matters like effective breeding population when making their selections for males.
To expand on the basic concept of Ne one must consider how Ne effects the F statistic (Coefficient of Inbreeding).
So let's assume an NE of say 4. The decline in heterozygosity or rate of inbreeding at from the first generation would be: F1 = (1) / (2 * Ne) or 1 / (2 * 4) = .125.
With each subsequent generation the decline in heterozygosity is cumulative. Take generation F6
F6 = 1 - (1 - F1) ^ 6 = 1 - (1 - .125) ^ 6 = .551
By the 6th generation 55% of the genetic diversity will have been lost in the line. By the 12th generation 1 - (.87.5) ^ 12 = 80 % of the genetic diversity will have been eliminated.
The larger the Ne the lower the rate is the actual loss of diversity through inbreeding.
It's nice weed,, esp. the gun-metal grey plants,, but both Blueberry and Flo display hermaphrodite traits,, thus not so wonderful... unless arguably explained away by pages and pages of text. IMO really good genetics speak for themselves in the garden. No discredit to any of the breeders involved
If it flicks ya switches , then why not turn it on man,, just watch it doesn't drift !
Peace out
imo,,,he aquired the intersexed traits because he only used 50 plants a time to select from,,i think he must have picked up some recessive intersexed traits,,dont ya think doc?
can you expand on this Quote Dave??,,,,,,,
Cuzin_Dave
Active member
Small Ne's will inbreed very quickly but at the expense of losing genetic diversity in your seed lines. The further down one gets in filial generations especially after F4 the greater the risk of genetic drift away from the original parents.
Cuzin Dave, thanks for your answer, but I am not sure if it answers my original question.
the question is how do we recognize and identify what constitutes an Effective Breeding Population: that is, how do you recognize that what one assumes to be an Effective Breeding Population, comes from a line that has been maintained genetically through optimum conservation?
that is, how do we know if those 7000 seeds of Malawi, or Colombian Red Point one may have, were produced from a true Effective Breeding Population?
how do we know that the 'wild patch' in India or Pakistan came about from enough numbers (it is a numbers' game, right?) so that the consequent reproduction can be considered Effective in the sense that all genetic material is passed down to the next generation?
peace.
the question is how do we recognize and identify what constitutes an Effective Breeding Population: that is, how do you recognize that what one assumes to be an Effective Breeding Population, comes from a line that has been maintained genetically through optimum conservation?
that is, how do we know if those 7000 seeds of Malawi, or Colombian Red Point one may have, were produced from a true Effective Breeding Population?
how do we know that the 'wild patch' in India or Pakistan came about from enough numbers (it is a numbers' game, right?) so that the consequent reproduction can be considered Effective in the sense that all genetic material is passed down to the next generation?
peace.
