Genetic Drift?

[Rastatrue]

Hey now,

What a great post. It just grew and grew.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

I should move to the equator and start a Cannabis orchard. I'll just grow buds like they grow apples and oranges.

 

[bombadil.360]

So... You imagine there may be somewhere where this occurs in the wild, and when it happened to you it was on a plant which was extremely stressed?

what I'm saying is that I cannot answer your question about whether or not this will happen in specimens growing wild.

and since I got the plants from Colombian pressed bud, and grew them in the same latitude, I used the example of a wild patch in Colombia.

The plant I grew was not stressed out, it was healthy until it got very root-bound in the pot I had her in after the second harvest.

I don't doubt there are climates where an annual could occasionally survive more than a year, but that is an unusual anomaly not an indication that cannabis is a perennial.

I never said it was indication that cannabis was a perennial, but that it can be more than an annual, provided the right specimens are grown in the proper environment.

I would have loved to see what would have happened if it were planted in the ground and left to be though.

be good

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

So the first harvest did not stress the plant??

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Thai and Other Varieties can become Bi anual naturally and all clones ARE BI -ANUAL..

I have never seen it in 40+ years of growing and traveling in the East for many many years. I had many local farmers tell me it did, but when I investigated I could never confirm it, I did show them many times it was not true. These same farmers were also convinced that Papayas came from India or Thailand or where ever I was at the time... Also they were wrong about that. I know a plant can be stressed to sometimes re-grow a second crop, bit it is not happening in nature.


Cannaboy, have your grown Cannabis as a bi-annual? How and when?
I have never seen it.

And no all clones are not, put them outdoors in August anywhere in North America and you will see what I mean. They are dead by December in most cases, a bit longer in a few cases or places.
-SamS

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Good breeders select toward monoecious and away from dioecious specimens in a seed line.

You should learn before you try to teach.

Proper selection is the key to it all.

I don't understand, you think that good breeders of Cannabis select toward monoecious? Unless it is for a hemp variety why would they want monoecious? I do not, that is for sure.

-SamS

 

[englishrick]

I should move to the equator and start a Cannabis orchard. I'll just grow buds like they grow apples and oranges.

^^^good point!!,,,,i was going to mention it beffore,,,,

 

[englishrick]

i thought he was talking about mongeneric traits sam...

 

[englishrick]

why the would anyone want a cannabis plant thats can set seed on its own,,,,??

 

[Dalaihempy]

rick you seam like a nice guy very passionate about your hobbie to can i ask you how many years have you been growing cannabis ?.

My point rick is the best teacher is the plant not the boards not text books Lorne from your plants.

I cant understand why most find the need to over complicate every thing relating to this plant.

The original post for me was simple the flowers went to shit because they went to seed in short hermied badly put simple the plant was stresst some were along the line.

I have taken a clone from a seed plant grown it out and cloned from clone to clone for 8 years no difference in the harvest yield potency vigor nothing nadda.

I have seen a cannabis plant out doors that was 5 years old Grown in SA as they harvested it they would leave lower shoots and a few branches it would go back to veg and grow threw summer then flower and agine i have heard of older to agine no difference in potency and yields or harvested product fact.

No clone will grow the same in every grow room or area fact but a lot of that has to do with environment and how its treated does that mean the plant has changed genetically no just grown in different environments and methods even different curing methods can change the look and quality of the flower.

 

[DocLeaf]

Yeah Sam breeders should be breeding towards regular dioecious specimens in a seed line so we get a continuation of normal male and female plants

Zamal from Le Reunion islands is reported as growing as a bi-annual... the flowering period is so long that this equatorial species apparently re-vegges and then re-flowers in the 2nd season in some locations.

Hope this helps

 

[englishrick]

rick you seam like a nice guy very passionate about your hobbie to can i ask you how many years have you been growing cannabis ?.

My point rick is the best teacher is the plant not the boards not text books Lorne from your plants.

hay hempy

i started growing in mid 1999,,but in 2000 moved to Amsterdam,,i came back in 01 ,,then i just started helping,,,,being nice to people who deserve a friend to talk to

your right, but im trying to learn from other peoples mistakes too...

I cant understand why most find the need to over complicate every thing relating to this plant.

The original post for me was simple the flowers went to shit because they went to seed in short hermied badly put simple the plant was stresst some were along the line.

I have taken a clone from a seed plant grown it out and cloned from clone to clone for 8 years no difference in the harvest yield potency vigor nothing nadda.

I have seen a cannabis plant out doors that was 5 years old Grown in SA as they harvested it they would leave lower shoots and a few branches it would go back to veg and grow threw summer then flower and agine i have heard of older to agine no difference in potency and yields or harvested product fact.

No clone will grow the same in every grow room or area fact but a lot of that has to do with environment and how its treated does that mean the plant has changed genetically no just grown in different environments and methods even different curing methods can change the look and quality of the flower.

i agree with Head,,,,,,but KOPITE is making more sence to me than anyone imo,,,,,,,sam is the ultimate in practical experence,,,but today im sat on the fence,,,,when it comes to the basics of genetics im sat with sam,,,but i think kopite has the same feelin i have,,,

in the beginning Head called it "epigenetic drift",,,,i would call it an "epigentic responce",,,, fast growing in optimum conditions will work wonders,,like sam said,,,BUT,,,,im gona subscribe to Kopites analogy of "RAM and Harddrive",,,,fast growing in optimum conditions is just like getting deleting shitty RAM

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Will Zamal live through cold wether in the North? And re-grow from the same roots in the spring? Or is Zamal just a very late Sativa that can sometimes live thru a few months of short photo period? I think the latter, and I have grown Zamal BTW.
Dalaihempy,
As for a 5 year old Cannabis plant that re-flowers each year after harvest, I have my doubts, first of all S Africa is at the 22-33 latitude, not exactly equatorial.
Where in S Africa did you see this? What was the date, time of year?
I was told this so many times in India, Thailand, Laos, and Nepal, that I tried to find plants that were perennial, but every time I tried I found the plants were in fact new from seed each year, but in stands that seemed to re-grow the same plants each year.
You need to be there when the seeds or plant is just starting in their local spring time, and see if it really is re-growing or not. If it is flowered then it is very hard to determine.
Now I have had a few plants that did make it, but only in heated greenhouses, and only if planted very late, short photoperiod is enough to kill most, cold will kill the rest.
I am not say it has never happened ever, but why don't any growers do this in the USA?
Because it is unreliable, that is why.

-SamS

 

[Dalaihempy]

Will Zamal live through cold wether in the North? And re-grow from the same roots in the spring? Or is Zamal just a very late Sativa that can sometimes live thru a few months of short photo period? I think the latter, and I have grown Zamal BTW.
Dalaihempy,
As for a 5 year old Cannabis plant that re-flowers each year after harvest, I have my doubts, first of all S Africa is at the 22-33 latitude, not exactly equatorial.
Where in S Africa did you see this? What was the date, time of year?
I was told this so many times in India, Thailand, Laos, and Nepal, that I tried to find plants that were perennial, but every time I tried I found the plants were in fact new from seed each year, but in stands that seemed to re-grow the same plants each year.
You need to be there when the seeds or plant is just starting in their local spring time, and see if it really is re-growing or not. If it is flowered then it is very hard to determine.
Now I have had a few plants that did make it, but only in heated greenhouses, and only if planted very late, short photoperiod is enough to kill most, cold will kill the rest.
I am not say it has never happened ever, but why don't any growers do this in the USA?
Because it is unreliable, that is why.

-SamS

Hi Sam SA as in south Australia the plant was grown in between grape vines on a vineyard at the time was owned by my cussin why i believe it the plants steam looked like a grape vine nothing like a normal mj plant very woody smoked its produce to was very nice i stood next to it and could not spot it as my cussin sed there's a mj plant in this area see if you can see it i looked and looked and until he pointed it out i couldn't spot it.

The steam looked like this picture.http://www.icmag.com/ic/attachment.php?attachmentid=53655&stc=1&d=1271583670

I have heard of a few in my time Sam but not one wild all the result of man one guy had it growing next to his house never saw this plant from an old Italian guy also a friends dad had one did the same harvested it and would leave a few shoots lower down and it would take off again smoked some from that tho.

I have seen what your talking about in some cannabis lines no matter conditions it will get to a set point in flower and will stop stall and unless you harvest it will basically start to die and that's it were other lines just don't seam to all the sativas i use to grow out doors i would still have my ones flowering well past the times most would harvest theirs the ones i grew out doors at home were i could tie and support each branch on each plant i use to take then basically to spring and if i knew about this back then i to could of harvest the balk of the plants and let each re veg and go agine.

 

[Dalaihempy]

hay hempy

i started growing in mid 1999,,but in 2000 moved to Amsterdam,,i came back in 01 ,,then i just started helping,,,,being nice to people who deserve a friend to talk to

your right, but im trying to learn from other peoples mistakes too...

Hi Rick the best teacher is your plants mate and making mistakes is part of it but the plants will tell you along the way to but more people make mistakes from bad info posted all over the boards than most relies most want publicly admit this fact is cannabis grows well with out man most screw there grows not the plant.

 

[englishrick]

im not trying to teach,,,,,doc is saying 1 thing,,,,Head is saying another,,,, in this particlar thread i think my position is exactly the same Kopite`s!!,,,,

sam is by far the best qualified to teach,,,,so id like to be in sams class,

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

I don't understand, you think that good breeders of Cannabis select toward monoecious? Unless it is for a hemp variety why would they want monoecious? I do not, that is for sure.

-SamS

Yeah... I was responding too quickly and got the words transposed in my head, posting the opposite of what I meant to say. edited. thanks.

 

[bombadil.360]

So the first harvest did not stress the plant??

the first harvest surely stressed the plant and it eventually getting root-bound also stressed her.

but what I meant by not being stressed is that the rest of the environment was pretty neat.

perfect tempts, perfect humidity, good location as it received at least 80% of direct sun-light of the day. 2000 meters above sea level in the tropical Andes.

I'm sure if I had been able to plant it directly into the ground, I could have gotten more harvests from it. But I decided to leave it at that since I did not have the space and that particular plant did not produce the best herb either.

I'm sure if Sam had the chance to move a few years to a place like Colombia, he would be able to find the specimens and see for himself, because these plants need a tropical/equatorial photoperiod and climate to respond like that.

and speaking of apples, you cannot grow apples nor pears here, nor kiwis, these need specific photoperiods in order to fruit correctly.

here the best you can get out of an apple tree are small sour apples, for example.

so taking these cannabis specimens out of their environment and expecting them to behave like they do in tropical/equatorial climates, would not be too realistic.

peace

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

right on... when I said stressed I was referring to the fact that the veg growth resumed after the extreme stress of being harvested, I did not intend to imply your grow was poor.
Methinks Sam has probably spent time a lot of different places in the 4 decades or so he's been breeding and studying the species...
Dunno if Columbia is one of the places or not...

Sam?

 

[bombadil.360]

when I said stressed I was referring to the fact that the veg growth resumed after the extreme stress of being harvested

yes, this is probably why maybe if we were to find a wild patch of these sort of specimens, they would not re-veg on their own, but need us to harvest them to a point so that they may respond like that.

I think if they are not harvested, and one leaves all the flowers there, they would get moldy and sick and die of disease probably?

peace