Genetic Drift?

[englishrick]

Genetic selection at it's finest... Dogs which all have a distant common ancestor selectively bred for certain genetic traits, resulting in vast differences in appearance and ability.

genetic-selection and enviromental-pressure is exactly the same thing imo,,,

the enviroment caused the selection ,,,the selection did not cause the enviroment

the boxers DNA is very very close to a graywolf,,,,so is the huskie`s!,,,,,

imo herritable epigenetic`s shaped the boxer inot something compleetly different form a gray wolf,,,,,,,but the huskie remained the same due to enviromental conditioning

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

genetic-selection and enviromental-pressure is exactly the same thing imo,,,

only in your opinion though. Mankind did the selecting for all domestic breeds of dog.

the boxers DNA is very very close to a graywolf,,,,so is the huskie`s!,,,,,

So is every single breed of dog. 99.99% the same DNA

imo herritable epigenetic`s shaped the boxer inot something compleetly different form a gray wolf,,,,,,,but the huskie remained the same due to enviromental conditioning

But you are wrong. completely wrong. You are very confiused about how these mechanisms actually work in the real world.

You need to learn about the history of canine domestication, I guess, but your ideas do not line up with what is already known for sure about inheritance. Conditioning has nothing to do with it. It is all selection.

Once again you have warped the definitions and carried concepts past their reality. Here is where I completely disagree, and conclude my participation in your erroneous line of thought.

You need a better grasp of the basics before trying to apply advanced concepts.
You don't really even seem to have a good understanding of natural selection, or genetic inheritance.

Enjoyed the discussion.





If rick confuses anyone, feel free to PM me questions.
It is really simple to understand all of the established mechanisms he's overlooking and ignoring so he can pretend that epigenetics has something to do with breeding or evolution. Once more, all epigenetic change is temporary. Dogs do not have baby wolves if they grow in in the wild.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

If rick confuses anyone, feel free to PM me questions.

I for one would rather see questions posed, discussed, and answered here in the open forum...but that's just me. (shrug)

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

I for one would rather see questions posed, discussed, and answered here in the open forum...but that's just me. (shrug)

Right on... If rick's epigenetic philosophizing confuses anyone, feel free to ask me in open forum or PM... whichever you are more comfortable with.

 

[englishrick]

^^^^^FAIR PLAY,,open fourm is cool,,,,just dont answer my post if you dont feel like it,,,,if you want to acnolage me, just send a smile @rick

Mankind did the selecting for all domestic breeds of dog.

So is every single breed of dog. 99.99% the same DNA

nessesity is the mother of all invention!!!

if you trying to say that mankind is not a part of nature,,,,i dont think need to argue my point,,,,yes, we are creators but our hand is guided by nature!,

man selects,, but nature gives us all the options,,,,,,,so ,who`s in controle?,,,,,,,,its like the US election system!!,,,,it gets the US population all confused into thinking that they actualy have any choice atall

yes,,,the DNA of the boxer is 99.9% the same as huskie,,,,but what makes the boxer so different to the huskie in attitude and visual apperence????,,,,,is it the difference in DNA or allele positions?

as you said, the difference in DNA between the boxer and the huskie is next to nothing,,,,,??????

You need to learn about the history of canine domestication, I guess, but your ideas do not line up with what is already known for sure about inheritance. Conditioning has nothing to do with it. It is all selection.

Dogs do not have baby wolves if they grow in in the wild.

emagine you had a huge population of dogs with massive amount of genetic vaireation,,,,if you put them dogs in the same niche as the wolves and re-introduse them progressivly ,,,given the chance to breed sucsessivly and segrigate into indervidual packs, soon indervidual dogs from different packs would start to show signes of domestication sindrome!,,,the dogs with domestication sindrome would not be dissimilar to what we call wolfs!!,,

selection is forced by nature!!,,,,

the niche has everything to do with IT!!!

the power of Enviroment over Selection is Epigenetics!



Darwin never understood Lamarck!!,,,,,,,

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

Lamarck was wrong. Debunked in the mid-1800s.
The existence and function of the genome were completely unknown to lamarck.

Popular publications sometimes report natural selection in Lamarckian-sounding language because it is rhetorically convenient.
Easy to understand the confusion experienced by some.

 

[ROJO145]

WRONG RICK!!Period,its a tuff pill I know,but being able to recognize will get you further,You have a habit of running your mouth,in at least a dozen threads when you are proven WRONG!!NATURE had absolutely nothing to do with dogs being what they are,man and man alone bred every dog breed since there was only one.Of course some would like to see you continue to post your very confusing and stupid thoughts,But alas H3ad is 100% as usual,He is much smarter than me and most when it comes to this shit,I got no problem admiting it,but you and others feel threatened by it,ever hear this before rick?? STFU

 

[hoosierdaddy]

*
OK, bud...I edited out what this punk really needs to read.

 

[ROJO145]

WRONG Hoosier,arent you getting tired of that yet?I got yer punk swingin!!You are so predictable it isnt funny,you took 2 minutes longer than expected to reply!!!There is enuf dis information running around this place(as you are well aware) we dont need all you brains confusing anyone else.By the way pop,in real life things would be much different(of course you would kick my ass,lol) but this is the net,your threats and constant name calling are lame.
By the way,in the latest secret poll,people would rather read my drivel than your never ending diareah of insults!!,hey when ya get a chance,stop by and leave me some red dots,the green is hurting my eyes!!
Fucker was proven wrong and told he was wrong at least 5 times in this thread alone,werent you recently cut down to size too,people are to nice,I woulda put the boots to ya when ya admited you were WRONG!!!
ps.I read it,and??yer still wrong,hahaha!!!

 

[Grizz]

well this thread has gone from a simple guestion, to a all out debate , I have to agree with alot of what H3ad has said, the only problem im having understandin is the cut I refered to was a relitive new strain, mothers wernt that old, I also run 6 other strains, keep moms of all of them , none of the other moms have produced dudds, there all in the same room , although i try to not use the same blade when i take cuts there are times i have, why hasent the virus or disease or what ever it is spread to any of the other moms

 

[ROJO145]

Yer 100% right Josey,I appologize to Krunch and the rest of ya's that need answers,its just that my asshole and retard threshhold has been met for the month and couldnt stand readin anymore.Imma leave it to H3ad to explain for you guys,hope someone can help ya's out

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

now now...

Everything between rick and I is all set. I'm not bothered at all that he continues to believe a philosophy in favor of history and the processes we have already observed.

We've had this discussion before and will have it again.


Philosophies are the precursors to scientific discovery, and are necessary to the process. We might have never discovered the atom had not the ancient greeks philosophized that there must be atoms. To some degree we all as individuals have to internally work our way through all the old debates, sorting our personal philosophies according to the facts we learn, until we run upon new ideas to imagine and discuss and debate and discover truths of.

Sometimes it's ok to vent and be abrasive... especially when the topic has political or personal implications, but that shit is for the toker's den and religion forum, not the growers forum, right?

Hoosier was right earlier when he was talking clean slates and polite discussion, especially outside of the tokers den or religion forum.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Something we both agree on for sure.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

well this thread has gone from a simple guestion, to a all out debate , I have to agree with alot of what H3ad has said, the only problem im having understandin is the cut I refered to was a relitive new strain, mothers wernt that old, I also run 6 other strains, keep moms of all of them , none of the other moms have produced dudds, there all in the same room , although i try to not use the same blade when i take cuts there are times i have, why hasent the virus or disease or what ever it is spread to any of the other moms

some plants are weaker/stronger than others.
Some plants are more susceptible to certain things.
Different plants can react differently to the same stimuli some times.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

I don't dislike you at all, hoosier... you and I just aren't of a temperament to be able to discuss politics (or issues which are clouded by political agenda) with each other, I think. I know it is easy for me to get carried away when I am passionate about something, and post things beyond the bounds of civility.

 

[englishrick]

hay

ive got loads of respect for Head,,,,Head is oviously the Alpha in this thread!,,,,but my status has to be respected too,,,,so has hoos and epecialy Kopite`s,,,,,,even yours,,,,i value your opinion but dissagree with the STUFU,

Head holds his status by saying things like "Philosophies are the precursors to scientific discovery, and are necessary to the process."........i respect this more than any1,,,,,

Albert Einstein Imagination is more important than knowledge




Head knows what i think about him

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

right on, rick...
I only get temporarily frustrated responding sometimes to things which have been long ago debated and put to rest in my own mind. It doesn't take me long to find renewed interest in the discussion for the discussion's sake.


And, I do admit that sometimes my tendency to 'alpha' a thread, results in an inadvertent hijacking of said thread.
can't help it, it is in my genes, I guess :wink: but I'm sorry to those it annoys.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

I am an A pheno, and have had numerous energetic encounters with like A pheno's. It's life for A group.
The B group may not relate. (shrug)

 

[englishrick]

you are cool Head,,,,i apreceate yout time!

i dont believe half of what i read in abstracts and conclusions,,,,everyone still gets baffeled at the twin research,,

 

[englishrick]

im an A+ Pheno.........lol