George... the majority of epigenetic research is in the animal kingdom... botanists have lagged behind zoologists in the arena of epigenetic response, methinks.
-
ICMag with help from Landrace Warden and The Vault is running a NEW contest in November! You can check it here. Prizes are seeds & forum premium access. Come join in!
Genetic Drift?
- Thread starter krunchbubble
- Start date
It is this, in a nutshell...
Good genes grow good plants, and an ideal environment will keep the genes in their pre-programed epigenetic state.(in perpetuity if you are taking cuttings.)
The vast majority of changes, both epigenetic response and genetic mutation, are detrimental to the organism.
Provide the best of what your plant needs and your plants will reach their fullest potential.
R
RNDZL
"you must spread some reputation before giving it to gr3atful3ad again"
thanks for clearing that up
are there any beneficial epigenetic changes that one would wish to capture or are epigenetic traits simply articulations of epigenetic cues?
thanks for clearing that up
are there any beneficial epigenetic changes that one would wish to capture or are epigenetic traits simply articulations of epigenetic cues?
That would be interesting to learn. As the science progresses hopefully clear cut answers will emerge.
Head said:
^^^^this quote raises the CONSERVATION issue!!,,,,,,,,we all want to keep the traits we love alive in a seeline,,,,,all weed used to be grown outdoors,,,so what is the IDEAL ENVIROMENT????,,,,,,,have we allready been altering the pre-programed epigenetic state allready by not growing in optimum conditions
lol
what we are talking about here is Niche Construction and evoloutionary stratagies,,,,,
Head,,,,,you are right when you say i want to push the concept of epigenetics over its current boundrys,,,,but then again my goal is to explore new epigenetic states,,,,30 years ago peeps would have never relized that 90% of weedgrowers would own tents and HPS systems,,,
an eviroment shift could change everything,,,maybe breeding weed indoors allready has
it was cool to hear from you sam
,,,i could listen to you all day, honestly!
No... you push it past it's current definition, and roll it back to a less refined definition.
Changing the definition is only going to confuse you, not enable you to discover 'new epigenetic states'.
The ideal environment is the one in which the plant stays the healthiest.
No epigenetic state is going to "change everything", ever, but you can keep looking if it pleases you. epigenetic responses are not permanent changes. There is no secret thing you can do to a plant to make it a superplant, that's a complete misunderstanding of epigenetics. You are assigning properties of genetic response to epigenetic response that do not belong.
But like I said... keep searching. I hope you find some sort of evidence that you are right, and can come to me saying "i told you so" but until then, according to everything I've read on the subject, you are misapplying the concept. Epigenetic responses are temporary and only in rare cases transgenerational. I can't remember ever running across examples of multi-transgenerational epigenetic heritability.
And I think the conversation has come full circle back to the same point the other thread did where we have to simply agree to disagree.
Changing the definition is only going to confuse you, not enable you to discover 'new epigenetic states'.
The ideal environment is the one in which the plant stays the healthiest.
No epigenetic state is going to "change everything", ever, but you can keep looking if it pleases you. epigenetic responses are not permanent changes. There is no secret thing you can do to a plant to make it a superplant, that's a complete misunderstanding of epigenetics. You are assigning properties of genetic response to epigenetic response that do not belong.
But like I said... keep searching. I hope you find some sort of evidence that you are right, and can come to me saying "i told you so" but until then, according to everything I've read on the subject, you are misapplying the concept. Epigenetic responses are temporary and only in rare cases transgenerational. I can't remember ever running across examples of multi-transgenerational epigenetic heritability.
And I think the conversation has come full circle back to the same point the other thread did where we have to simply agree to disagree.
Head said:
true,,,but if the apropreate stimuli or lack of stimuli becomes a perminant fixture in the organisms niche then the observed responce remains perminant!!,,,,,,,eg, some plants will get red stems due to lack of P,,, without P the stems will remain red,,,
il try and come back with some real reserch to support my theorys,,
its allways good chatting to you Head
So, you're searching for a special something you can permanently add to your environment to make your plants better than they could normally be?
Is your garden so well dialed in that your only limiting factor is the plant's genetic?
Is your garden so well dialed in that your only limiting factor is the plant's genetic?
BINGO!!,,,
i think growing indoors is a perminant niche!!,,,,an i also think seedlines living and breeding in these indoor niches are allready showing some responce,,,
i think growing indoors is a perminant niche!!,,,,an i also think seedlines living and breeding in these indoor niches are allready showing some responce,,,
taking away simuli causes a reaction too
i believe that the HPS systems lack of UV has has an odd effect on chemical ratios
i believe that the HPS systems lack of UV has has an odd effect on chemical ratios
I can only imagine that there must be scores upon scores of laboratory scientists working for major corporations looking for the exact same special something. To read some of the bottles of different additives you'd think they thought they had it.
Maybe you should build a frankenstein plant by grafting all your mum's together and then tasering the result... =]
Maybe you should build a frankenstein plant by grafting all your mum's together and then tasering the result... =]
sorry for turbo posting,,i cant edit my posts
Head,,,,99.9%of the time i only grow the cheese clone,,,,,,my cheese is the best ive eveer tasted because i have tweeked my niche
Head,,,,99.9%of the time i only grow the cheese clone,,,,,,my cheese is the best ive eveer tasted because i have tweeked my niche
Providing the ideal environment does not necessarily mean that you've done anything epigenetically. If you loosely define it as of old, mayhap, but not necessarily when using the modern definition and understanding.
You going to win the cup this year, then?
Most growers I know think their own (insert strain) is better than other's (same strain)... including myself. =]
You going to win the cup this year, then?
Most growers I know think their own (insert strain) is better than other's (same strain)... including myself. =]
naahh,,,,,im not like that,,,,im totaly unbias,,,,my samples are not good enough at the min!!,,,,ive been growing some new clones and they just aint upto the challange,,,,,,,
my controle factors dont change so its defo the clones fault ,,,,,,,if i woulda put the blues clone in i woulda been in 1/2nd place easly,,,,,but hell knows what would happen if someone else enterd the blues clone too,,
this blues clone makes a shitty grower look like the king of cannabis
i know the winner when i see it,,but the truth is the clones ive been runnin lately aint upto the job..."the blues is",,,,,"blues is basicly a tastyer cheese clone"
my controle factors dont change so its defo the clones fault ,,,,,,,if i woulda put the blues clone in i woulda been in 1/2nd place easly,,,,,but hell knows what would happen if someone else enterd the blues clone too,,
this blues clone makes a shitty grower look like the king of cannabis
i know the winner when i see it
,,but the truth is the clones ive been runnin lately aint upto the job..."the blues is",,,,,"blues is basicly a tastyer cheese clone"
im sorry to sound wrong ,,but please humor my concept,
when we select and breed for indoor growing enviroments, we select inderviduals with "indoor atributes"!!,,,true???
i feel at this point WE are totaly altering the enviromental pressures and WE are defining the selection paramiters!!, [remember the pepperd moth],,,,,we are the agent of selection and through selection we can alter pre-programed nature of the line,,,is this not heritable epigenetics?
im sorry to sound wrong ,,but please humor my concept,
when we select and breed for indoor growing enviroments, we select inderviduals with "indoor atributes"!!,,,true???
i feel at this point WE are totaly altering the enviromental pressures and WE are defining the selection paramiters!!, [remember the pepperd moth],,,,,we are the agent of selection and through selection we can alter pre-programed nature of the line,,,is this not heritable epigenetics?
No, that is genetic selection.
Remember that any epigenetic response is there because the genome's blueprint puts it there. Even though epigenetic responses affect the state of the gene, the epigenetic mechanism are there in the first place because the gene told them to be.
is there sutch thing as epigenetic selection ?
The plant is doing just that I think, Rick.
No need as far as I am concerned, except that you would obviously want to select parents which are not genetically programed to have negative epigenetic responses easily.
selecting for something which is temporary would be less fruitful than selecting away from epigenetic negatives, imho.
selecting for something which is temporary would be less fruitful than selecting away from epigenetic negatives, imho.
i dont know what you mean hoos
please explain?
please explain?
