Nitrate is the best/fastest form of nitrogen for cannabis but is also the most expensive and easy to leach therefore not very efficient outdoor,ammoniacal is readily available but is the worst for the plant and the easiest to overdose,urea is useful in soil only and for big operations because is cheap and needs to be broken down by bacteria.Fusarium isn't a big problem,if your soil(and the plant) is healthy it should not attack as is easily outcompeted by beneficials bacteria/fungi.In hydro nitrate is the way to go.
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Fusarium Spp.
- Thread starter FRANKIE1579
- Start date
Didn't read this whole thread but did anyone mention Rootshield? Great organic product for root diseases - it innoculates the roots & soil against Fusarium. I would definitely do a complete cut-down and sterlize first if I had an outbreak of Fusarium though.
http://www.johnnyseeds.com/tools-su...shield-plus-|-wettable-powder-1-lb.-7481.html
http://www.johnnyseeds.com/tools-su...shield-plus-|-wettable-powder-1-lb.-7481.html
I have been using rootshield plus granuales for some time.i bought a 5lb or so box. Been using many other compost teas. OG biowar, an a few others i cant recall atm. I believe it does help, but never gets rid of the problem.
Now that i look back, i have fought this for years...
hydrodreams
Member
Hy there
I read the thread two times since I seem to have fusarium myself. It's the first time I am facing this and I am currently in the process of cleaning the whole empty room....
One factor that I think wasn't given enough attention is the possible contamination of the tap water. Not every area has the same type of source and therefore the same quality of tap water. I would say it certainly is possible that the tap water is contaminated.
frankie1579 was the most detailed case of this thread, but he didn't provide any information about the quality of the tap water in his area. He mentioned that he is uv-sterilazing his RO-Water, which is also a controversial method, since it only works to a certain degree if the clarity of the water reaches a certain level.
So in case the water is contaminated, you can sterilize your room as much as you want......
FRANKIE1579 mentioned the most logic point himself:
So if the spread of the spores trough air would be so severe, there wouldn't be any Marijuana anymore certainly. It must be happening in a different way. Also watch pictures of banana plantations that were infected with Fusarium. It's never the whole plantation. It's always some spots. If the spread of spores by air would be so extreme, than it would be the whole plantation always, wouldn't it?
I read the thread two times since I seem to have fusarium myself. It's the first time I am facing this and I am currently in the process of cleaning the whole empty room....
One factor that I think wasn't given enough attention is the possible contamination of the tap water. Not every area has the same type of source and therefore the same quality of tap water. I would say it certainly is possible that the tap water is contaminated.
frankie1579 was the most detailed case of this thread, but he didn't provide any information about the quality of the tap water in his area. He mentioned that he is uv-sterilazing his RO-Water, which is also a controversial method, since it only works to a certain degree if the clarity of the water reaches a certain level.
So in case the water is contaminated, you can sterilize your room as much as you want......
FRANKIE1579 mentioned the most logic point himself:
So if the spread of the spores trough air would be so severe, there wouldn't be any Marijuana anymore certainly. It must be happening in a different way. Also watch pictures of banana plantations that were infected with Fusarium. It's never the whole plantation. It's always some spots. If the spread of spores by air would be so extreme, than it would be the whole plantation always, wouldn't it?
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hydrodreams
Member
I have just read an article about the Corona-Virus and Virus in general. It states that Virus can "comunicate" among each other and switch to "aggressive" mode this way....
Did anybody ever hear if fungal spores are capable of the same?
If that would be true, it would explain to me why some people cannot get rid of fusarium and in the environment of others the spores are present, but don't do any harm yet...
I have also read, that our breathing air is very saturated with fungal spores to the point, that it is actually seriously harmful to the health of many of us. Considering this, I askl myself, why then doesn't just every grower have fusarium or mildew?
Did anybody ever hear if fungal spores are capable of the same?
If that would be true, it would explain to me why some people cannot get rid of fusarium and in the environment of others the spores are present, but don't do any harm yet...
I have also read, that our breathing air is very saturated with fungal spores to the point, that it is actually seriously harmful to the health of many of us. Considering this, I askl myself, why then doesn't just every grower have fusarium or mildew?
I tested my tap water for fusarium. It was not present. I lost my battle with fusarium. No matter how many times I culled or what I sanitized with, it came back. No matter what fungicides I used... it came back. I completely stopped growing indoor because of fusarium. Good luck. If your case is as bad as mine was, I would advise you to stop growing, for your mental health. Selfishly, if you continue to battle fusarium, I ask that you come back and share your experience.
What's up frank? ha
What's up frank? ha
dramamine
Well-known member
I'd love to have someone show up in this thread with something new and useful.
Someone mentioned this especially proliferating in the res if it's in the contaminated garden area. That tracks with what I've seen. In that case you're introducing fresh spores to the root zone on the daily. To try to control that aspect, I'm gonna run the feed water through UV on it's way to the plants. Tried everything else, like others here.
Low temps seem to help, but that could be related more to reservoir temps. Not sure on that one yet.
Just about had it with this after...... 2 1/2 years now since lab result.
Someone mentioned this especially proliferating in the res if it's in the contaminated garden area. That tracks with what I've seen. In that case you're introducing fresh spores to the root zone on the daily. To try to control that aspect, I'm gonna run the feed water through UV on it's way to the plants. Tried everything else, like others here.
Low temps seem to help, but that could be related more to reservoir temps. Not sure on that one yet.
Just about had it with this after...... 2 1/2 years now since lab result.
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If you have a real problem with Fusarium Wilt you need to move your grow into another area, because once there are spores it will attack any new plant each year. If you are in acidic soil the spores will thrive when soil temps reach 85f or 29c causing a spore bloom each year.
Does Fusarium produce spores? yes 3
a: microconidia; b: macroconidia; c: chlamydospores . Fusarium species are soil borne vascular wilt pathogens, which are among the most important phytopathogenic and toxigenic fungi.
Fusarium can survive in soil for 5-10 years, surviving as saprophytes (lives on dead/decaying organic matter) in plant debris in soil indefinitely and producing dormant and tough resting spores. Google
Sending the water through UV won't help friend.
Does Fusarium produce spores? yes 3
a: microconidia; b: macroconidia; c: chlamydospores . Fusarium species are soil borne vascular wilt pathogens, which are among the most important phytopathogenic and toxigenic fungi.
Fusarium can survive in soil for 5-10 years, surviving as saprophytes (lives on dead/decaying organic matter) in plant debris in soil indefinitely and producing dormant and tough resting spores. Google
Sending the water through UV won't help friend.
dramamine
Well-known member
How does that help with fusarium?
I've used both Myco-Stop and Pre-Stop, with Pre-Stop being advertised as more effective.
I use container style soilless mixes and discard my used mixes to the garden outside, often the spud field.
I have posted before (maybe in this thread??) that I have beaten Fusarium Wilt with these methods, but they included doing both foliar and root treatments to prevent furtherance of the 'bug' and then taking healthy cuttings, and in between, washing down (even spraying) my grow areas and boxes with a combination of bleach and Borax.
When I battled hardest it was a real bitch, but it doesn't get a foothold now.
I currently use a prophylactic treatment of Actinovate (lighter weight anti-fungal) and Gnatrol WDG in my mixes when I mix them, then again when I put them into use and rehydrate.
Mostly because I'm out of fresh Myco-Stop or Pre-Stop and both of them have a more limited shelf life.
The down-side of Pre-Stop is that it's akin to bulk Milk Man powdered milk and mixes in much greater amount per gallon than the Myco-Stop and Actinovate.
The Pre-Stop is somewhat coarse, looks like powdered milk of some varieties, and doesn't dissolve as well or as easily as others. But when I first began using it, having it sent to me by a friend in Pennsylvania because the distributor couldn't ship to Alaska, it was touted as being as effective as chemical-based anti-fungals.
dramamine
Well-known member
I think I first read of the PreStop in one of your posts a while back. It is a good product, great even, for the rootzone fusarium issues. I found that if I add it to the water and let it hydrate for 20 minutes or so, it will then dissolve pretty easily.
For the particular fusarium I am battling, it's the airborne spores that are the challenge. I've got a vast collection now of products, some of which help with keeping the roots healthy and thriving, but have little to no effect on the sporulation cycle. The latest one I've been trying is called Asperello. Very strong biological innoculant and great for the rootzone, but seemingly no effect on the foliar aspect of this disease.
I haven't been able to get a single plant clear of the fusarium, despite doing a full breakdown, disinfection and repainting of the entire grow area, clone isolation, etc etc. My list of growroom protocols is huge and seems to have little effect. Symptoms have morphed over time and are a constant struggle/mindfuck.
Seems my only option is to change locations, but I haven't been able to do that as yet. I continue with the fusarium albatross around my neck.
Have you included ay air intakes or air filtration system in your cleanings?
Also, I shorted the process of cloning clean clones. There were several cycles of taking clean cones from new plants at an early phase. And if possible (though I kept mine in my clone cupboard), keeping them out of the main affected area after taking the clones.
It was not a single-phase battle, nor an easy one, but I have 'won' it for the time being and the last couple of years. Though with such critters, it's similar to cancer; remission doesn't necessarily mean a cure. Down the road a few years it might mean that, but each moth without it is forward movement.
Again, I haven't had to deal with it in at least several years now..
dramamine
Well-known member
Yeah, absolutely have tried multiple ways of scrubbing the air. HEPA filtration, UV scrubbers. I was mystified that this seemed to have zero effect on the spore dissemination. I currently run two carbon filter rigs, as well as a HEPA filter, although it doesn't seem to do much, if any, good. I know that breaking the reproductive cycle is the key to controlling this thing, but damned if I can make any headway. Highly efficient pathogen, fusarium.
I will say that I've seen some benefit to cautious foliar feeding (kelp and some calcium and magnesium, and may add some micros to that cocktail), being that one of the most damaging effects of this pathogen is the inability of the plant to uptake nutrients efficiently, due to clogged phloem. Can't do much in that regard once they are flowering, though, which is of course when nutrient demands go up. Still tinkering with that currently.
Did you 'sterilize' the insides of any air handling equipment, air filtration boxes, etc.? (5% bleach solution in H2O with a decent amount of Borax added, then straight bleach in a second go-round, as, as I've stated before, the Borax leaves a granular presence. Then straight H2O in the follow-up. Bleach is, once again, unfriendly stuff to many surfaces).
FW had me in frustration and battle for a good long while.
Some have even since posted that I was misrepresenting or misperceiving/misidentifying, as "it can't be (whipped)".
But I'm here, it's not. Not for the moment, anyway. And been that way for several years now.
But yeah, anything with a lifetime like that of FW, and spreading via spores, is a bastard.
Oddly enough, in my outdoor raised veggie and flower beds and in the potato field, where my used mixes from those days went to, there's been little to no evidence of FW. Soil temps likely contributing to that, but we have long sun in the summertime, and my soil outdoors in those places is dark and rich with organics, so it definitely attracts heat from the sun. So..... Maybe just call me 'Lucky'. I'll answer to most names.
Are the surfaces in your grow area painted and sealed or are they coarse and porous?
Just thinking out loud re. surfaces that spores might find a home in, as my room is mostly 'sealed', but the walls are only partially painted and otherwise taped and mudded sheetrock, so maybe just a brain fart.
In terms of outdoor environment, I believe your location (State) is more humid as a rule than mine, too.
dramamine
Well-known member
Nah, that's a really valid question. I have cinder block walls, poured concrete floor. Basement rooms that I run sealed. It has occurred to me that I might benefit from air exchange, but it's not very feasible, short of punching through the walls in some vain hope of positive results. Multiple paint coats on both floors and walls/ceiling. I know that clean sterile surfaces are where it's at, but you can't prove that by me...haha.
Yeah, my area is the inverse of yours in many ways, ironically enough.
I was surprised that the full breakdown, sterilization and subsequent restart had little to no benefit against this thing. I constantly feel like there's a missing piece to the puzzle just out of my reach.
Concrete is very porous stuff. Using a sprayer might work with it to some degree, though I noted the Borax tends to clog the sprayers (1-2-gallon agricultural type sprayers).Nah, that's a really valid question. I have cinder block walls, poured concrete floor. Basement rooms that I run sealed. It has occurred to me that I might benefit from air exchange, but it's not very feasible, short of punching through the walls in some vain hope of positive results. Multiple paint coats on both floors and walls/ceiling. I know that clean sterile surfaces are where it's at, but you can't prove that by me...haha.
Yeah, my area is the inverse of yours in many ways, ironically enough.
I was surprised that the full breakdown, sterilization and subsequent restart had little to no benefit against this thing. I constantly feel like there's a missing piece to the puzzle just out of my reach.
I run an internal loop for my air exchanges that I've written about before.
I didn't want external accesses to my shop, by way of either air inlets or outlets through the foundation.
My shop is on a concrete slab in a basement also, but my block walls are insulated doubly so and sheet rocked. My monolithic slab is purposefully not insulated; cheap or free cooling in the summer and free or cheap heating in the winter..
My HRV has ducts in the basement; one fresh air supply and one exhaust, both with interior face trims on them. Metric version of ~6" ducting on the adjustable trim faces.
My fresh air inlet to the shop is within 4 feet of the fresh air supply to the basement. The old exhaust that was previously available in the shop has been sealed and capped. The remaining exhaust from the basement is within 4 ft of the carbon filtered exhaust from the shop..
Not hard ducted per se', but close enough for a 'hand-off' between the 2 systems, and as long as I stay on top of my custom-made 12"x24"x2" (nominal) MERV 8 pleated pre-filters in my custom carbon filtration box, and the same size filters constructed in aluminum panels in my carbon filtration, the back yard hasn't smelled like someone air-dropped you into Humbolt County in October in about 20 years now.
With no pressure resistance measured, the in-line centrifugal duct fan measures an advertised (about) 485 cfm's out of the shop. I have a replacement for that one still in a box on a shelf in the basement for most of the last 20 years (about the age of the current inline fan), but with a rheostat-friendly feature, and a new rheostat in the same box for the same time now).
I figure that with Murphy in my life the way 'he' is, it's only a matter of time before we're gone some place and the 20-year-old centrifugal fan that's been running steadily for the most part for that duration, fries a bearing and lights the house up. An 'oops' to be avoided... On the other hand, there's Dear Abby's or Ann Landers' (whoever it was who said it) old, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
The system works pretty well, though there's no real filtration of air coming into the shop. That might be the next move if I ever have serious issues there again.
Thus, my 'internal loop' system.
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dramamine
Well-known member
Sounds like a well-thought-out air exchange system you set up. My shop is simply a large room that I partitioned into two rooms: veg and flower. Exterior-grade doors. I then punched through the dividing wall at opposite ends with 8" fans, one in and one out, and very short runs of ducting; just enough to make the veg area light proof. These are filtered through Merv13 12" filters. That's about all there is to my air exchange down there.
Sealed rooms are the way to go in my area for several reasons. I have to run a mini-split and CO2 supplementation, of course. I fill water tanks from elsewhere in the basement, so there is a bit of outside air exchange while that happens, every 3rd day or so.
You're probably better off with your old trusty fan than a new one. So many things are built to fail in a short time now. Always good to have a back up though. Very Alaskan trait there. Murphy is indeed a rat bastard.
Forgot to mention I use hypochlorous acid to clean the rooms, and ran an ozone gennie overnight in there when I had it emptied out.
Sealed rooms are the way to go in my area for several reasons. I have to run a mini-split and CO2 supplementation, of course. I fill water tanks from elsewhere in the basement, so there is a bit of outside air exchange while that happens, every 3rd day or so.
You're probably better off with your old trusty fan than a new one. So many things are built to fail in a short time now. Always good to have a back up though. Very Alaskan trait there. Murphy is indeed a rat bastard.
Forgot to mention I use hypochlorous acid to clean the rooms, and ran an ozone gennie overnight in there when I had it emptied out.
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